Diana Ross: How close to the truth is Dreamgirls? (Part 2) 

The Supremes did admirably well after Diana Ross left. 7 top 40 hits. How many groups pull THAT off after they lose their lead singer?

Only thing I wish that did happen in real life was Diana Ross reunited with Florence just like the Dreamgirls

Barry Gordy thought Florences voice was too strong for mainstream because Florence's voice was wayyyy better than Diana Ross, but back in the 60s if black folks wanted to go mainstream, they couldn't sound too churchy. Barry Gordy treated Florence badly and he pretty much drove her to alcoholism. Diana Ross has always been my Idol but some things she did back then were cutthroat, especially towards Florence. She admitted she would have done some things differently but then again, wouldn't we all? I think Florence would have been a superstar if she was given the chance.

Diana Ross does not have clean hands in this situation and that’s the truth

I believe the story of Supremes was going to be put in a movie, but studios chose not to because they thought the story was done via DreamGirls. I was sad to read that and then realized more truth may have been told via DreamGirls then would have been in the story of the Supremes. It is easier to tell the truth via fiction if you want to avoid a lawsuit.

Diana Ross AND The Supremes are incredible. They invented stage presence.

The memes are perfect lol, i loved this series- wish it hard more views. We want more more more

Florence actually became an alcoholic because she was getting pushed to the back. The Supremes was her group. She was also promised that she would eventually become a solo artist and that never happened.

How can people even decide to say that Diana was a nice woman when she was sleeping with her boss and got all the perks of that including a child with him, a wealthy producer is beyond me. Her and that man were rotten in the early years. Diana’s guilt is why she never continued the relationship with Florence, or her children after her untimely death. There are forums on the net where you can find people who have heard the stories many ways, and others who were in close quarters during the drama and told about in the early days of the internet. Look into it and decide for yourself what the truth could or couldn’t be. Rest well Florence.

I LOVE every single Supreme to ever hold the title as one of the Supremes, including the various 1970's lineups. Another similarity I'd like to point out is that near the end of the run of Deena Jones and The Dreams, they became disco sensations. While The Supremes didn't have Top 40 Pop Chart hits after 1972, they ruled the disco charts in the mid 70's, including a #1 disco hit "He's My Man." I love Dreamgirls though as well as The Supremes. I have ALMOST every single record recorded by the group. The only ones I don't have (that I want) are Meet The Supremes, Diana Ross and The Supremes Sing and Perform Funny Girl, The Magnificent Seven (Supremes and Four Tops), as well as Dynamite (Supremes and Four Tops). I, however, will never buy The Supremes Sing Country-Western-Pop. That album is my limit.

This was really good. I won’t lie, your extra inserts of random clips were super funny. You did great!

Oh how I miss Anna Nicole Smith. When she passed away I was devastated. I know it's off topic but the meme got me in my feels.

"Dreamgirls" had its beginnings as a star vehicle project for actress Nell Carter. Playwright Tom Eyen and composer Henry Krieger first worked together on the 1975 musical version of Eyen's play "The Dirtiest Show in Town". Carter appeared in the musical, and her performance inspired Eyen and Krieger so much that they crafted a musical about Black back-up singers, which was originally called "One Night Only" and then given the working title of "Project #9" afterwards. "Project #9" was workshopped for Joseph Papp; Nell Carter was joined at this time by Sheryl Lee Ralph and Loretta Devine, who played her groupmates. The project was shelved after Carter departed to appear in the soap opera "Ryan's Hope" in 1978. While the musical does borrow heavily from The Supremes it was never meant to be verbatim to their lives or careers but more of an amalgamation of 1960s girl group stories (many of whom had similar things happen to them). In that short interview piece you showed of Sheryl Lee Ralph, she was explicitly told that Deena was NOT Diana, and to not play her as such. Henry Krieger, the composer for "Dreamsgirls" has said that Effie was based much more on Etta James than Florence Ballard (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tkGZESxmBIg.html) and Jimmy Early was a mix of entertainers James Brown and Jackie Wilson. Michelle working for Curtis before joining the Dreams is most likely an homage to Martha Reeves who did secretarial work at Motown before she and her group the Vandellas made it big. During the workshop Michelle's character did have a song, "I'm the New Girl" (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Qy1ps7lZw1Y.html) but it ended up being cut.

Dreamgirls, Effie recorded ONE NIGHT ONLY 1st,no hit.Denna Jones and the Dreams then record it ,Huge hit. Real Life,The 5th dimension records 1st, LOVE HANGOVER,no hit ,noone even knew about it,THEN motown label mate Diana Ross records it, HUGE HIT. Just sayin.

I don’t know how I came across this.. or how it ended up on my recommended watch list-- but I’m glad I’m here 🙂

It has been suggested that Motown played a part in threatening and or bribed radio stations not to play Mary Wells (singer of my guy) new record after leaving them at the height of her fame in 1964. Just like depicted in dream girls when Effy has her comeback with one night only. Also I have seen interviews when diana Ross had been asked if she would see the dream girls movie she said - yes and I’m taking my lawyer - all T

You going to hell for that Maury clip!😂😂😂😂

I saw the original play in New York and thought immediately oh that’s about the supremes and dirty Diana. This is basically a story about the supremes and how Ross was able to move out flo the real voice of the supremes with that dirty b gotdy

It definitely is the Supreme story of course they mixed fiction into it as well so they can't be sued,but the comparisons are definitely there

I love hearing experiences & memories of people seeing or knowing Florence Ballard & Mary Wilson from back in those 1960s days.. They were,, ARE,, SO LOVED.

I think it's pretty clear that the story of Diana Ross and the Supremes were an inspiration for Dreamgirls, but I think Dreamgirls has moved beyond it as well.

That "sure, Jan" from the Brady Bunch takes me out every time, lmao.

Omg i love this series so much! but funny thing.. at 3:06 you say Gordy Berry instead of Berry Gordy LOL

Diana Ross is a superstar and that star was meant to shine. Great video. I love the comparisons. Being one of the biggest Diana Ross fans there is and I know the Diana Ross story as well as the Supremes story like the back of my hand. The play and movie was an attempt to do the story of the Diana and the Supremes. But...I don't buy into the Diana sabotaging Florence part and unfortunately Florence doesn't survive in real life. I feel there was jealousy within the group when Diana started to get all the focus. I see one big truth in the comparison and that is Berry loved Diana and saw her talent and wanted to make her a star. And a mega superstar she became.

I loved each and every minute of this and part 1 also!! The commentary / narration and the funny memes. love love love. Just awesome

Can u do why do fools fall n love.

This video was great! I love how much work and time you guys put into this video! Good job!

This kind of videos are so interesting to watch cuz when movies or musicals are based on real stories one can forget that those where real people and that did happen and it´s nice to see how accurate is the art to the real story, maybe you should do one of this for The Sound of Music or Hamilton since they´re based on real stories too, loved the video :D

5:09 Florence did sing one song with the Supremes in 1976 with mary and cindy also with Sherrie but she didn't sing she dance she had almost join back because mary ask her but she didn't because the other thing

CAN WE HAVE MORE VIDEOS LIKE THIS. Honestly this was great!

Omg they JUST announced Mary Wilson has passed!! Literally wtf!!

I like to think of the Love Hangover myth story as another similarity where supposedly Diana did her version of the song after the 5th dimension started climbing the charts with it transforming herself into a disco diva in the process.

Both of these videos were so great! 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾

I grew up around Motown. Many of the acts lived near me & I've met several of them, including some of the Funk Brothers. When the Supremes went from being No Hit to 1 hit I met them & flirted with Mary (I was 4 1/2 at the time, she was the least intimidating of the 3). Also, I have studied the music & acts of the era, both Motown & other companies. I have no question that Dreamgirls was based on multiple acts, many not Motown (e.g. the Shirelles) but is maybe 40-50% Supremes. Jimmy Early, for instance, has a lot of James Brown in him. The movie did make some changes in the story that made it more like the Supremes. That is why I say 40% (the play, which I saw when it was 1st run on Broadway) vs 50% (the movie, which I have watched multiple times including about 2 weeks ago). The Primettes (pronounced as in the feminized version of Primes.) The Primes were Eddie Kendricks & Paul Williams. They merged with members of the Distants (Otis Williams, Al Bryant, & Melvin Franklin) to form the Temptations. The Temptations were going to go with the name Elgins, but that name was already taken. Like with Flo coming up with the name Supremes Melvin (AKA Blue) picked the name Tempations. David (Davis) Ruffin later replaced Al. The Primettes were put together by the manager of the Primes to be their sister act, but never performed with them. The Primettes were originally a quartet (1st including Betty McGowan who was replaced with Barbara Martin, who passed just a year ago). They remained a quartet for about a year into having changed their name to the Supremes.There are as many versions of the story of both the Supremes/Primettes & the Temptations/Distants/Primes as there are people who were involved a long the way. I think I have waded though many of all those versions, compared them, & hopefully gotten close to the truth. I've discussed it a little with some of those who were involved, like Mary, who friended me on Facebook a few years ago because she remembered me from January 1965 & January 1966, when I met her. Also, I talked at length with Flo's sister, Maxine, who passed about 6 years ago. I looked for Maxine's grave last year, in Superior Township, just north of Ypsilanti, MI. It is unmarked though so I only had the coordinates. I have lived in Ann Arbor for 42 years, which is west of Ypsilanti. I also visited Flo's grave in the Detroit suburb of Warren last Summer. There is a marker which I believe Mary & Diana paid for.

the album covers that were featured in the movie were based off the original Supremes Albums, as in Cream of the Crop Album, and 09:26, the album cover, on the left, reminds me of The Supremes A Go-Go album.

It’s the Maury clip for me 😭😭😭😭 U R NOT THE FATHERRRRRRRRRRR

Beyonce did the same thing. So I thought it was ironic and fitting she played Deana.

Hi! Just came from part 1! These videos were really good! I have Mary Wilson's book too. It does not make Diana look good at all...

the duck noise makes me laugh lol

FYI, Martha Reeves was the secretary-turned-singer. Kind of.

thank you for putting that mad tv skit

7:32 Some of the songs are literally the same-

I love your channel.

i was watching this video and suddenly news came out that Mary Wilson passed on...eerie if you ask me

Diana Ross is just so gorgeous!!! P.S. The part about Curtis crushing Effie's competing "One Night Only" does pertain, I believe, to the event of Motown rush-releasing Diana's "Love Hangover" to swamp the 5th Dimension's competing cover version, cut after DR's album came out but Motown initially chose another song as lead single.

does anyone know where i can get the original dreamgirls to buy i would like the one with sherry lee raphal and lorreta devine pls thank you in advance

Diana Ross went Beyond a Singer after she departed the Supremes as a GREAT ACTRESS.

where is the "now were half way through act two and ive had nothing yet to do" from???

Well done. 💞

8:14 where is this from???

Almost 100 , saw the play when it first came out

Motown veterans--people who were there and saw everything--back up Wilson's side of the story. Everyone at Motown knew the backstabbing, plotting, and attention stealling by Ross.

I wonder why they don’t just do a biopic about the Supremes using their actual music. It doesn’t matter Dreamgirls did it first. The Supremes had some great music.

Crazy that Jenifer Hudson did not get top billing on the movie, especially as it is about Effie (and Hudson winning an Oscar)

03:10 what a wonderful picture of Florence with her three daughters ❤

Diana is really good in this movie call out of the darkness

Maybe I completely misread it, but I felt like there was a stronger subtext (in the movie at least, I never saw it on Broadway). It just struck me the first time I saw it, that there is clearly a fascination with Diana Ross and the Supremes enough to make a musical, then movie. What is it about? There must be a deeper meaning than simply two people. The world is filled with legendary stories, like how Barbra Streisand made herself stand out amongst the jewesses of Broadway- but nobody every made a movie about it. I felt like there was a strong subtext not only about these two people, but what role they played. And the roles they played were kind of bigger than life, amalgamations of the artists they represent. But history has recorded that Diana Ross was the first major African American “superstar”, “goddess”, “Aphrodite” type in the modern/TV era. Perhaps what happened between Florence and Berry Gordy and his treatment of Diana, was a cultural shift. This is my theory, but perhaps Effie/Florence represents what was the standard of talent and personality that embodied the African American before the civil rights movement, all the way back to the Jim Crow south. Diana/Deena represents the standard of acceptable, mainstream, some would say white audiences, but that is a different topic. What I am saying is that for anyone to compete in entertainment, you have to fit the mold before you can break it. It’s the same for white girls, or Madonna would never have shaved her armpits. Hollywood has created this acceptable standard of beauty, that does not always care about race. In Diana’s time, she fit the bill: they could call you fat back then and expect you to fix it. Well, she was already a waif. In a way, I wonder if the Diana Ross of 1960’s is not what the AA saw as the best representation of their culture at that time. But the “men who run things” held her up and said “Yes, this is the new standard of AA beauty.” And perhaps it resonates with many people. It’s almost as if Diana had to be who she was, to break down the barriers. It’s like when everyone at work wants to ask the boss a favor, they send in the prettiest employee, not always the most vocal. Again I would draw a comparison to Barbra Streisand, who at the time did not fit the standard of “mainstream/white” audiences, but still managed to break through and become a titan. Not by confirming, but by talent. Perhaps the creators of dreamgirls realized this. It’s an unfair world when Effie/Florence has to diminish their talent in order to elevate someone else during the same era of Barbra Streisand and Aretha Franklin, who did NOT diminish themselves. But on the other hand, perhaps Diana was a sacrificial lamb as “mainstream white” audiences would let her into their homes and TV’s. Even for white people the standards of beauty in the early 1960’s were mostly unattainable. And perhaps she would not only open the door, but leave it open for everyone else, and she did. There are some deep themes in this movie.

Balanced, with evidence. Dig deeper, you get more. Good reporting. That she went to see it on stage- was reported in a major mag. We all saw it. In the multi-verse it barely matters. Music changed directions with the Supremes.

Whatever is or was or will be, I love Diana. I got to know her and spend time with her during the early 80’s, all over the world, and apart from one little incident (lol) I continue to love her and what she did and stands for, and always will, even sometimes in spite of herself.

That was interesting.

9:24-9:30 LMAO!!!!

I heard a couple of Florence Ballard's solo recordings. I didn't think she could sing that well.

As great are the Supremes are. The DREAMS are the BEST!!

WHERES MY BACKGROUND SINGERS?!

❤💜❤ the Supremes , Dream Girls Musical

I don't Believe the Supremes would have had the HITS if Diana Ross didn't do ALL of the Leads. Just like Michael Jackson was the Absolute BEST LEAD for the Jackson 5. Jermaine Jackson could sing and had a Great Solo career.

1970: Diana Ross gets replaced by Jean Terrell. The lineup from 1971-74 is JMC.

We are Dream Dorks Boys! We'll Make You Happy, We Are Dream Dorks! Dream Dorks We'll Never Leave You....ok somebody had to do it

I love this

WHERE ARE MY BACKGROUND SIIIINGEERS🤣

The only odd difference I see is that they would cast over weight actresses to play Effi as Florence for the musicals. When she looked very slim to me, so I don't understand the correlation. I know Curtis referenced her as being fat, but anyone with eyes can see she was far from that.

I loved it too . Gave it some thought if loosely based and or borrowed of events of the Supremes .....hmmm . But a lifelong fan of Diana and I know it is a CutThroat business. Show Biz ....that is

Truth is Bill Condon directed the film to be similar in look to The Supremes. Dreamgirls the Musical is an RnB opera with very little spoken dialogue and that was totally lost in the movie. Bill Condon sucked all of the musicality out of the movie. So many of the arguments that were sung lost their fire. Deena was absolutely not written as Diana Ross. She was not nearly as ambitious. All that Glittered: My Life with the Supremes by Tony Turner is a good read for behind the scenes of The Supremes from the perspective of a fan who got to tag along. If you ever get a chance to see into on stage do. The 2009 tour added songs from the movie...I hated it. But the new technology and video screens they added in addition to the turning towers used to approximate scene and location changes was amazing. But nothing can ever match what they did in the original with costuming, lighting and minimal scenery and it all still felt cinematic. An experience I will never forget watching or being in twice.

The great, beautiful and talented icon that is Diana Ross. Marie and Flow were lucky. Period.

Flo and faith Evans look alike

Diana joked that she saw the movie...with her attorney.

"Fiction" just inspired by a true story.

kinda weird the way people say don't like diana ross relying on gossip

Divas they were 👠💄💍

The movie leaned too much on the supremes and Motown comparisons.

Thank you!

7:55 🤣

Very interesting shireells

Unpopular opinion: Diana Ross cannot sing and her and Barry Gordy did Florence Ballard wrong.

If people dug into their black music history more, they'd find that there were other groups the musical (stage) mirrors beyond just the Supremes.

Diana wanted to be a star no matter what the cost or who she stepped on

Diana Ross dream girls whirly lee ralph

How does his British self know so much? Lol

NOT CLOSE, DIANA ROSS WAS DARK SKIN

That man was sleeping with Flo first Diana wouldn’t sue unless it was something

Contrary to popular belief Diana Ross was not the villain of The Supremes. Unfortunately, she has been falsely accused and unfairly despised for decades. We should all know by now that it was Florence Ballard who was the real villain, not out of personal spitefulness but because of her very combative and contentious relationship with Berry Gordy for years. It nearly poisoned the group, and I am sure was the catalyst for Diana leaving to establish a solo career.

Beyonce was not right for this part she don't even look like her. But letoya look like Florence she should of played her.

I hope Wilson made a shit load of money

Miss Ross didn’t DO anything to Florence. All moves and changes were due to Berry Gordy’s focus on Miss Ross. It was about much more than the voices of the ladies.... which one had the potential to become a superstar “performer” ???

dameyou

Dreamgirls the movie never deserved the acclaim it received however the supremes wrote history and Diane stll does

One thing why keep bringing this up yes i heard diana ross is not particularly your everyday person n have skeletons so what her business her choices in life let god deal with her when the time is there this happen in the 60s leave it in the 60s 70s whatever it is what it is I liked all the ladies of the supremes did not have a favorite but this sounds like a lets pull diana ross down n no thank you you can try it aint happening here it is 2021 n she still superb on stage n still popular like i said leave the past alone like al hudson say if she was a demon let the man upstairs call her on it i wasn't there you wasn't there n there is always two sides to a story ..It is what it is

You’re so cute 😍

Diana is legend! All of them are, but Diana had it! Lady Sings the Blues & Mohogany are gems! And if she was white, she would have an Oscar. There are so many scandals from old hollywood, but they mind their business for the most part, unlike new hollywood, where everything is a reality show...lol Really I love it all, mostly....

Financial Problems Account Yen and Pound the Supremes office communications data2021