dont be dense obviously they don't care enough to lift their fat sausage thumbs to look into this, look at skull merchant, survivor audio bug w spirit and in general, broken scratch marks, they dont gaf about either side atp
I’ll be honest, I hate the way behavior has been reworking maps recently. They’re just removing legitimately loopable tiles and replacing them with trash loops and filler pallets
i hate all the new maps as well. they’re adding weird pallets on the ends of maps and adding no tiles or anything. look at borgo for an example. it’s so bad. don’t even get me started on midwich or lerys
This comment hit me on a spiritual level. You summarized what’s been so ever annoying about dbd recent balance philosophy in recent times from a (mostly) survivor player.
coldwind is so unbelievably unfun now as survivor. everytime I see one of those insanely shitty pallets with the teepee looking thing I literally want to dc. Why does behavior think having a million unplayable loops is better than having less tiles but more of them being somewhat playable.
@@sambeast13 if youre talking about shelter woods i can see what you mean but relatively speaking compared to the bad maps like borgo, haddonfield, it still holds up pretty wekk
Went from survivors throwing that offering, onto killers running the offering. Same as Haddonfield throughout the years. These maps would probably be fine in the OG DBD days because of killers and powers in the day, but definitely not in modern Dead by Daylight lol
No they went exactly where they wanted to go. They kept survivor mains happy until they got their bots tuned in, now the game will become completely killer sided
Coldwind used to Change alot When you remember in 2019 Coldwind was by far the Most survivorsided Realm of the OG Ones; Rancid was fine,except of the God Window,but Torment Creek,Cowshed,Thompson House and Rotten Fields were incredibly broken.Then they Changed at First Torment Creek and later Thompson House,Cowshed and Rotten Fields, although Cowshed stayed really op. Last year they Just Had to Nerf Cowshed,but for some reason destroyed Rancid and added although these incredibly unsafe Pallets.Not good,but Not terrible.And yeah,for some reason they added now These weird Tiles No one asked for and made it really weird to play on
I LOVE COLDWIND FARMS I LOVE HAVING 3 CRAP LOOPS AND THEN SHACK AND THEN A TON OF CORN WITH NO LOOPS THAT PREVENTS YOU FROM LOOPING AKA THE ONLY FUN PART OF SURVIVOR I LOVE IT 👍
Yeah these tiles are weak. Can barely make it anywhere even if you pre-drop. The window vault is the only saving grace. My go to is looping the harvesters. Hard but leagues better than trying to loop the weak tiles. Failing that, hold w and pray.
Funny thing is as someone who mainly plays killer I can't stand the corn walls. You ever watch an animal, like a bear, dart into the woods and disappear? That's how it feels for me. I'm so corn blind the maps are unplayable to me. I'm just broken lel
There just going to make every map Haddonfeild eventually. Nothing but trash loops with unsafe pallets to "make it more interesting to play around" to steal a quote of there's.
we can’t have killers thinking they need to learn loopable tiles & how to mindgame them in order to get better in chase! that would be too interesting! let’s make chases braindead instead!
It’s been nerfed since Dracula came out sadly. It’s smaller and much clearer to the point where you can see where the map ends and begins. The game keeps losing its atmosphere.
I noticed the min i loaded in that it was smaller.. its not super drastic but its enough to see it instantly.. everything is becoming a shoe box like haddenfield with the doors kissing
"Let's fill all of our maps with really shit tiles in a game where there are 37 killers and half (or more) of those killers have some sort of anti-loop/chase ability." thank you john bhvr very cool
Back when Skull Merchant was released, along with Red Forest's graphical rework and the Shelter Woods update, they implemented this universal rule that makes mazetile types not repeat, which was already in some realms like Ormond, Yamaoka and Garden of Joy. This change affected over 20 maps and it was actually one of the best they have ever made regarding maps since it promoted variety along with some stability in RNG when under the right settings. In this PTB, as Hens pointed out, the universal rule of not repeating mazetiles is not working, I confirmed 35 maps to be affected and the total estimated is 40 maps (but the odds to confirm the last few are so low that it is a time waster) out of the 53 that are in the game right now. For this reason, Coldwind is less likely to have the classic jungle gyms since on top of the other tiles you have to account for repeats of them (at the same time you could technically have only jungle gyms but the odds are against it since it is 1 out of 6 mazetile types in the realm). To point out the elephant in the room, before the universal rule got implemented, Coldwind and Asylum already had their own unique rules (they were more stable RNG wise than MacMillan, Autohaven and Red Forest for that matter) and they were tight enough that they coexisted with the no repeats rule in their own way. They could still repeat mazetiles, not because they were bypassing the rule but because they have more mazetile spawns than types in the maps. The rules of the rest of realms were overwritten entirely instead. Currently it is only Asylum and Nostromo that can repeat mazetiles on live servers, Coldwind lost its old ruleset when they reworked Cowshed & Rancid and it assimilated the no repeats later on when they added the new tiles.
this actually super interesting i have no problems with new rule it just seems like it’s not gonna work for every map because not every map is designed the same way or even balanced in the same way just seems odd like i get having it on newer maps which it was intended for but older maps just seems eh to me
Nostromo can repeat maze tiles?? Do you mean maze tiles in the sense of Nostromo’s unique setups? I have never seen a familiar tile on that map. All its tiles are unique, I’ve seen no T and L’s or jungle gyms on that map. A tile that looks similar maybe, but not the same. Do you know why that happens?
@reivoidwalker Nostromo mazetiles are 4: one is a classic jungle gym but the longwall version has the pallet next to the window; then there is a modified four lane that has one wall that bends making a corner at one end while another wall is shorter; then we have a pallet gym that has a lot of walls behind it and it can have a window that is insanely strong; and at last we have a very weird gym that has a very weak pallet. The map has 5 mazetiles, 1 is different and fixed in front of main, it is a modified four lane that has a different style (metallic parts instead of only rocks) and it is like an extra, completely independent of the other 4. You would assume the other 4 are one of each and it is like that most of the time, but for some reason, the pallet gym with the potential god window can only spawn near the middle so if it tries to spawn in the corners it will get replaced by one that has already spawned, causing a repeat.
@christianftt3136 the no repeats rule has been in the game for a long while now, the rules that old maps had (minus Coldwind and Asylum) were absolutely awful to the point you could have a Groaning Storehouse with 6 jungle gyms and another tile or 7 non jungle gyms, the difference between the 2 iterations is absurd. MacMillan and Autohaven got new mazetiles prior to the no repeats rule (MacMillan was at Pinhead's dlc), making it even more logical to have no repeats. After both the rule and the tiles, Groaning Storehouse spawns 1 of each of MacMillan mazetiles, showcasing the 7 different types it has. There is not a single map where not having this rule makes sense as of right now. The PTB is removing the rule, presumably as a bug, and it makes for dumb situations like having 3 pallet gyms in the same map (not only you are not getting something better but you also have no windows to work with as a survivor).
@@AMGC7 ah, I think I understand a little bit better now! Thank you for explaining it to me. You should make videos like Otz does, you seem very knowledgeable! Nostromo’s always been confusing for me because while similar, none of the tiles are the same as the ones that spawn on other maps. The four lane you’re talking about is my favorite loop on the map other than the circle table pallet :D but the other tiles are where I struggle. I’m getting used to it but there’s times where I forget where stuff spawns and accidentally run to the wrong side of the tile 🤣 one day I’ll be able to fully make sense of how this stuff works
Pretty sick and tired of the constant killer sided map nerfs. Smaller, fewer pallets, changed tile frequency and so on. People who didnt play in the past have no idea how bad its gotten. Id love to know what these trash devs want the killer TTK to be, or avg chase time or however they measure it. Seems like they want 30 seconds or less based on what they have done to the tiles.
If the killer two hooks each person, and each hit takes 30 seconds to get, assuming absolutely zero down time and the killer magically teleports to each hook and teleports to a new chase instantly, it would still take 8 minutes to get everyone on death hook. More realistically, it takes 6-7 seconds to pick up and get to a hook and then another 10-15 to find a new survivor. If we go with 6 seconds to hook and 10 seconds to get into your next chase, that's 12 1/4 minutes to get 8 hooks. The average DBD game is 10-15 minutes long. Meaning on average the match doesn't last long enough to get everyone on death hook, let alone 12 hook like Survivors tend to want killers to try for. If chases averaged 20 seconds per hit you'd get 8 hooks at 9.6 minutes. So yeah. BHVR wants chases to be closer to 20-30 seconds per hit on average. Because otherwise chases last too long.
Honestly, even if that is what they want I feel like it is bad for the health of the game. If all chases are meant to be quite short, then what's the fun in playing survivor? Holding M1 on gens? Playing stealth [with all the aura reading... lol]? As Scott says there needs to be a balance between shit loops and good ones in order for the game to work properly, without it... well I see no point in playing.
@@HunterKillerBotLoLokay but dumbing down chases isn’t the solution. it just makes the game more boring and monotonous for everyone. you aren’t meant to have 12 hooks every single match anyways, nor win for that matter.
@@theotherauthor740I swear, dumbing everything down and making it a numbers game is probably the way the Devs handle the changes, people who play the game more know exactly that not every match will work this way
Every few months, bhvr has been pulling this crap. They will not be happy until 90% of the tiles are unsafe. They also have a problem with weighting hills as strong tiles. If you get a double hill spawn, you will get about -13 pallets on the map.
on top of making killers less fun to learn by removing all unique skill expression. obviously the game shouldn’t be too hard to pick up but this trend of balancing around the worst players makes the game incredibly dull.
If someone hand is held it is survivor's hand mate. Flashlight saves are easier, way too many perks with endurance and aura reading. I used to get happy when I pull off a flashlight save, now I am like "Meh, I got bro, now run a bit more". They made the game way too easy for us. I hate it. I am sure killers would complain too as they are removing techs by calling them "bugs". There is 0 skill involved in current state of dbd.
I am legitimately confused as to what BHVR's end goal is with loops and tiles, it's like they're trying to appease the two types of "loopers" in the game. On one hand you have people who just want strong tiles but don't want them connecting to other strong tiles so the survivors can't just run the killer in circles on overly strong tiles. But on the other they're also trying to appease the players who like running the killers through strong loops and chaining the junk tiles together to make it to the next tile. Which is why they're adding a bunch of useless filler or trash loops which are designed to be "chained" together to waste time. But then they're also trying to appease the killers who don't have strong anti-loop or chase power, by removing the overly strong tiles in favour of weaker ones, but also just add a bunch of trash in between the loops, which encourages the wastage of resources. Then on maps like Haddon Feild, they remove tiles and pallest completely, which means all the killer has to do is destroy all the pallets and the whole map is just a tiny deadzone.
Smaller maps, crappy filler loops, insanely close hook spawns, I forgot to mention hook respawn as well, honestly seems they want this game to have no players on survivor.
If you listen to all of the (unskilled) reddit killer mains, the game is unplayable as killer because it's so survivor sided. There needs to be balance both ways, this type of design is stretching a little too far into one side.
I still feel the game would benefit from completely getting rid of the RNG generation of maps. Each map could have like 5 variants, but each one will always have the same set-up. If they ever have something come up on a map that needs re-balancing, they can change that one variant without affecting the other maps that are working fine.
or even a set amount of loops like 2 T'nL's, 1-2 long wall jungle gyms, 2 short walls and 2 of the og pallet long wall and short wall so you know what to expect
Assigning a weak tile as having inappropriately high value in the system is like reducing the map's total "loop money" except it will lead to higher variance, trending towards being weaker (compared to the past). It's like every time the game COULD generate a strong tile, there is a 1/3 chance for it to be weak instead.
Once again they prove that they are completely unable to make basic maps. By far the absolute worst aspect of this game is the horrible maps that they just don't ever fix the issues in. Just keeping making them worse.
I was surprised that so few people talk about how tragic the farm became. The first major changes it got meant that it had literally 8-10 pallets on the map, most of them weak, maybe 2 god pallets (shack and main) and one large part of the map was a dead zone. The Thompson House's problem is primarily its size, not tiles. The same with Torment Creek. A Fractured Cowshed, Rancid Abattoir, Rotten Fields in my opinion are killer sided maps. It gives the impression that the devs themselves are afraid of their own ideas, because first they started to reduce the size of the maps, and on The Thompson House they leave the map large, but the only safe places for loops will be the shack and the main building. I think that reducing the size of the maps is okay (of course except for blight and nurse but you can't balance the entire game based on just two killers), but at the same time removing strong loops and leaving only weak pallets (like on Haddonfield) is a very bad way to balance map (not mentioning 3-gens). Reduce the size of the map - okay, but leave something on them other than bushes to hide or corn
This is actually my experience on the current live servers. Last 2 cold wind maps were Rancid Abattoir and no jungle gyms, only these new tiles. Like you stated this is anecdotal, but I think the "current live servers" version that was decently balanced you are referring two was a couple patches ago...
Before this ptb the maps got nerfed, specifically Thompson house and Rotten fields, the new shitty tiles being added to the farm maps in general too. They made Thompson house and Rotten fields smaller. Rotten fields is noticeably smaller and seems to have a slightly different shape. Again this is before the ptb came, current live patch.
Coldwind RNG hasn’t been talked about enough so i’m glad it’s getting some discussion now. But even before the PTB they were ridiculously killer sided. So much so I often send myself there for an easy win.
It's just their new philosophy, since haddonfield rework they will not stop. I already said how greenville is complete dogshit and built with filler pallets, with a trash main building and I got bombarded for some reasons telling me Im wrong The gameplay experience overall is just bad and encourages a shift+W gameplay, the problem is that they need to mix real loops to compensate which they aren't at all
had a match on thompson house last patch (just before or at the same time as castlevania being added) where it was basically half the size, main side was normal but where shack and cow tree can spawn was pushed forwards a ton making the corn area tiny, it also completely removed the little pocket where shack normally spawns because shack was much closer inwards. read the patch notes for it any they mentioned nothing about thompson house or even coldwind at that point
Another issue for me with coldwind is the light. I hated the day they made coldwind a day map that is bleached in sunlight. I sorely miss the night coldwind map. I much rather play the game map as killer and eat pallets all day long than deal with coldwind just because of how glaring it is.
I know it's rose-tinted glasses, but I sure do miss 2019-2020 dbd as far as gameplay was concerned. Unbalanced as hell, but I'd still take that over the more "competitive" balancing of today. The worst of the nonsense (having to dribble DS, no hook moris, etc.) was gone by that point. Just boyo techs, bringing a mori for blendies, having a bad game and switching to omegablink nurse, and holding your breath when you heard huntress's lullaby until the first person got hit. Somehow it was way more infuriating, but more goofy and fun at the same time.
Did you also notice the shadow-buff for survivors being unhooked? The time between the unhook and the time you can actually damage the survivor has been artificially increased, but I didn't notice it in any patch notes. This appears to be for the purpose of preventing post-unhook M2s by killers like Pyramind Head, Vecna, and Dracula.
I would say that's a good change, encouraging the killer to go for the unhooking survivor instead of burning through the unhooked survivor's endurance immediately with no chance for them to move/play is toxic as hell
@NewSirenSong toxic? No... it's effective. The problem I run into however is I'm swinging for the rescuing survivor, but the motion of the unhook swings the auto-aim directly to the moving survivor (unhooked survivor) and I recieve no value because I miss the rescuer and the unhooked takea zero damage, then I suffer from a revovery after a missed swing. At the very least, they need to remove or severely tone down the auto-aim, or make it optional. Ever since going to Unreal 5 it's caused me more trouble than good, with survivora being able to wig it out causing a miss when it would be a hit, and with swinging around a corner now forcing you into a wall.
BVHR is actually the most braindead developer team ever, I do not understand why their solution to good survivors looping is cutting the maps in half and removing all of the pallets. The amount of times i have been getting map RNG with little to no pallets and looping structures that are essentially deadzones…
I think I started noticing these tiles like two or three patches ago, and I don't think I seen a single regular jungle gym on Coldwind back then either.
I don't always agree with you, but I'm really glad you've brought this up. I hate spawning in to the ColdWind maps as killer, because they're just too easy. Zero mind games.. these changes just makes it even easier. Behaviour once again taking everything to the extreme. Fools!
thank you for bringing attention to this i tried and nobody cared. Farm maps are definitely some of the weaker maps in the game now thanks to these tiles. just got a match with only these and we definitely would have pulled through had we had the normal loops. There is no reason for these to be in the game in the first place they are somehow weaker than T and L's.
Genuinely think dbd would benefit a lot from removing rng from maps and just making a number of bespoke variations for each map that have a chance to pop up when you queue in, 3-4 variations each would be enough I think. Have to wonder how much dev time over the years has been spent combating negative map rng and how that would compare to the time spent doing deliberate placement of existing assets.
Maps are the reason many winnable matches become unwinnable as a result of super tight 3 gens and terrible tiles. Players have been able come from behind and win consistently when they had no business doing so
I understand that the rng of map tiles keeps the game from getting too stale and really good survivors can "solve" the map, but maybe i think it might be time to consider having more fixed maps. Like how there's 5 versions of Badham, they should just make multiple presets of every map cause the maps being super survivor or killer sided and its basically randomized sucks.
If only they could create new tiles that require real mind games from both sides to land a hit or avoid one it would make the game so much more fun in my opinion instead of trash unsafe 50/50 loops
Noticing a trend in DbD's balancing. Oh no, maps are too strong! Nerf maps in favor of killers Oh no, killers are too strong on the new maps! We'd better nerf the killers Oh no, maps are too strong! Nerf maps in favor of killers Oh no, killers are too strong on the new maps! We'd better nerf the killers Oh no, maps are too strong! Nerf maps in favor of killers This game is turning into Overwatch lmao. Soon no side will have any form of skill expression or engagement
you cant just predrop the pallets and be safe like the old tiles. I rather have a unsafe palet then just predroping and holding w except nurse. Sure would be great if they added a inch to those newer ones and cut the older ones shorter.
On live I have had CW farms with only the new tiles and no gyms.... its pretty bad and why I prefer to avoid those maps after the few experiences of this now.
Played a kyf since thats all I do on this game and all I have since about 2020, and the map with shack in the middle (forgot the name) was so tiny it looked like part of the map didn't load. The map used to be big, but it's just shack and a bunch of corn, with everything else at the ends of the map. I was very surprised to say the least, don't see how you would ever escape as a survivor
Not only those new tiles are weak, but did you see the new fillers on every reworked maps or the new maps? Those from Coldwind Farm are so bad, they might aswell not be there at all. I love the 50/50 tiles, but those fillers are more like 90-10 in the favor of the killer, you should be really bad to not get a guaranteed hit there. Not to mention it's even easier with any killer that has anti loop abilities. It's becoming too hard to enjoy playing as a survivor and this is coming from someone with 2k hours mostly survivor, I can't imagine how bad it is for new players.
So what you're saying is that if those tiles didn't exist, you would have had three jungle gyms on that map because of the equal weighting? That sounds crazy.
3 jungle gyms spread across the map isn't a problem, if they could be back to back it would be. Reducing dead zones and interrupting strong pallet strings with filler loops allows for amazing skill expression on both sides. Dead zones should be created, not spawned.
Unfortunately for them that will destroy their game. Looking at 4/5ths of the players in a match and saying "you don't get to be skilled, you lose" is the opposite of decent game design
@@NewSirenSong I agree what clowns thinking running the killer for 5 gens and then saving someone end game to let them escape and then dying is not a win there fore no skill is pathetic 😂😂
Hope this is just a mistake cause very few killers have chase trouble is predominantly map control that trips them up so this would just make everyone go down quicker. Yeah technically it would make it easier to generate pressure since you wont be in a minute long chase so you can just go patrol gens faster but noone plays survivor to do gens and run a killer for 30 seconds they want chases that test skill and mind games.
Torment Creek is my favorite map in dbd, but i cant go there since the odds are 4/5 bad maps to good. Offerings seemingly guarantee rancid, rotten or Thompson or anything else.
Have you seen the new cold wind tiles every patch? Behavior has continually over corrected multiple things on both sides. Not good for a already heavily mapped rng game
honestly i hope they fuck with map weights more in the future. hopefully we'll also see them start moving around guaranteed pallet structures on maps like Dead Dawg. Makes the game more dynamic.
I think having some guaranteed pallet spawns is good, just shouldn't be an abundance of them, if you fuck with it too much and people only have weak tiles that only function using your skill as a player if you have 20 ping on their awful servers the game will see a sharper and sharper decline
@@NewSirenSong Oh this bug was really fucked, yeah. I don't want eight TL walls, I just think there are some maps that are weighted weird. I guess I'm saying I want more variance.
@@containsnosmashmouth1849 absolutely valid, I can accept and agree to that, there should be a mix of variance and guarantees so that you're also rewarded for learning the maps well and they're not just cosmetic redesigns
You really can't do anything on coldwind anymore without running the killer to your teammates on gens... it is so bad. Like i shouldn't be able to stand at one wall and see the other side of the map like 3 tiles away...
gameplay for me is always, first chase get a 'pre-drop survivor' that drops pallets until 2-3 gens are done, and after there's no more pallets, they only run shack+main loop, maybe is time to make chases shorter, because is boring
ive noticed something like this, overwhelming pressure from the start for survivors that do 2-3 gens from 1 hook then end up giving the killer a 4k in the end. If they listened and added base kit corrupt from the start we wouldnt have to ruin the only fun asepct of the game which is chase
bhvr lives in early 2018/2017 which is why they still think coldwind maps are particularly strong for survivors (apart from rotten fields, which is still one of the best survivor maps in the game)
@@claudussy8824 it's spawn-dependent but generally the tiles and filler pallets spawn a big ring around the outside of the map that you can just run the killer through. the inside is completely dead (apart from shack) though so it's not fun to play on
@@jame8618 eh even on shit spawns you can just pre-run vs every killer that isn't like, chucky. still a bad killer map even if it's miserable for both sides
I don't consider any of these maps one sided or another I still lose on em. it seems to me it depends on the perks, items, add ons, and killer/power you bring
How cool would it be if they had a dynamic weighting system? What if they measured the stats of how long survivors are able to stay in chase in a tile, how often they lose chase in a tile, and how often they can stealth in a tile while the killer is also in the tile, then weigh the value of those metrics and combine them to score each tile based on their usefulness. They could then set the game to generate maps based on the current strength of the tiles from recent player data to create dynamically evolving map sets as the community improves at running/killing at different tiles. I think that would help towards your issue of devs maybe perceiving some tiles to be stronger than they are
I mean sure they could measure useful stats like these, but what about knowing the total number of spells Vecna players have used since his release? 😉😉
