I think a good solution to the "you must use this thing" problem could be fixed by making it so that there's multiple solutions to the puzzle. Here are two alternate solutions for each Koopaling I'd like to see implemented. Morton: Use a fire flower, fire bro, blazehammer, lava bubble, the charcoal grill or the fan to make the hammer burn more, thus causing it to burn itself out; or use an ice flower, an ice bro, the lemon, the washing machine or the plunger to extinguish the fire. Iggy: Use an ice flower, cheep cheep, the teapot or the lemon on the track to make it slippery, causing Iggy to crash into a wall. Or use a hurlhammer, cat-o-luck, or a large enemy card to block the track, causing Iggy to crash into your newly made trap. Ludwig: Use ranged attacks (hurlhammers, reflected projectiles from the tail, things, etc.) to sink his sub without needing it to go out of the water. Or use an ice flower or ice bro to freeze the water, then Mario will be able to walk across the water to take the fight to Ludwig! Wendy: Use the bottle opener on yourself to pry the ring off you before collecting all the coins, or use a frog suit to jump over the ring. Larry: Use the fan to blow the smoke away, or use a metal/drill jump to block the chimney with your body and steal the healing smoke. Lemmy: Alternative to the disco ball: Use a KO hammer on the spikes to spin the ball around, causing Lemmy to lose his balance; or use a POW block, sledge bro, or rocky wrench to throw Lemmy off balance by shaking the ground. Lemmy: Alternative to the Ice pick: Use any attack that works on aerial opponents (jumps etc.) to defeat Lemmy before he has a chance to kill you. Using the instant camera could buy you an extra turn. Or use the balloons, paragoomba, koopa paratroopa, or swoop to drag Lemmy off the ball. Roy: Use the lightbulb, disco ball or magnifying glass to illuminate the darkened area, or use several unpainted cards or slurp snifits to absorb the black paint.
Hey Andrew! Stellar write-up - I think this is definitely more forgiving in a gameplay sense and also meshes well with the comedic and playful tone of the rest of the game. Well done here! Thanks for sharing your thoughts
@@skipthetutorial also make it so that bosses could be fought without these key items, its just a challange to do so. not an insane one, but if you wanna take a harder route you have that option.
Your idea is the kind of thing I feel is prized in game design: alternate solutions that make you feel clever for discovering. Having an arbitrary gimmick be the sole method of winning is rather disappointing and unsatisfying.
I think the Thing system, if turned into it's own game and expanded upon greatly, could be fun. Imagine this: A party of three characters each with four different (infinite use) things equipped. Imagine you're fighting some sort of water monster. You could do the fight the long way, and just repeatedly attack it normally, OR you could try to freeze it somehow and instantly kill it with an ice pick, OR use some sort of heat based thing to slowly dry it up over the battle, or things like that. You could fight a walking refrigerator by using a screwdriver to unscrew the door and take the healing items inside. That actually sounds pretty fun. EDIT: I’m talking about regular enemies here.
Hey BGFM! I agree that there's a lot of merit into making these thing cards into a more puzzle-minded approach for defeating these bosses, and I think seeing it in addition to a combat side if players prefer that would be neat. Thanks for checking this one out!
Funnily enough sticker star handled things with bosses a bit better, having fun, effective, but unessecery interactions, with just not enough interactions.
i don't think it sticker star's bosses were better considering you literally needed trial and error to figure out the thing to use against them, color splash has the decency to tell you
I feel Sticker Star technically handles this slightly better, as you don’t actually need the weaknesses to beat them, but it’s 5 times harder when you don’t use them. This isn’t a problem just restricted to Sticker Star, quite a few games do this, but still. I think the best example is Gooper Blooper. The fight goes well up until Gooper’s about to poison you. It’s either you taking the hit and get seriously posioned, or whip out the sponge, and he gets the effect, practically killing himself taking 30 damage for the 3 turns he’s poisoned. You may have done so much damage up to that point that he dies in said turns. Power Tower Pokey also takes three times longer without his weakness because when you do use his weakness, he’ll take around 125 damage, almost half his health. And if you don’t use it, you’re dealing with no usage of hammer attacks until you get him down to a third of his health. It’s like Color Splash, it seems like the battle is over right after you use the weakness, and if you don’t, it’s over. I will give these bosses some credit and say that for most of them, it’s not just a, pop out thing at any point, instant win. You actually have to wait for it, with the exception of Snow Bowser I think. Also the point where’s Petey’s vulnerable, I feel the idea to hit him with your most powerful move, that being the Infinitejump, comes naturally. Overall, think it’s a step up, as it does actually feel satisfying overcoming the problem, from freewill rather than the game stopping the battle, like in Color Splash, but with how much hassle the bosses give you otherwise, it may as well be.
The way Color Splash handled bosses sort of reminded me of how Persona 5 handled its major bosses. In Persona 5, most of the major bosses have ways to make the fight easier to deal with: You can knock the crown off of Asmodeus' head to stop him from attacking, turn Azazel's 'make you weak to everything' move against him, prevent Bael from using his ultimate move by throwing items at him, shooting the Sphinx with a ballista to make her vulnerable, sniping Leviathan's roulette wheel to anger her into fighting you properly, and cutting off the tubes that provide the final boss' first form with what amounts to immortality. The differences here are that there are exceptions to the rule (These exceptions are Mammon (who's fight boils down to 'let's take Sonic Heroes' Robot Carnival and put it in a RPG'), Black Mask (who is the quintessential evil Persona User), Samael (who's fight is a drawn out slugging match akin to traditional Shin Megami Tensei bosses), and the final boss' second form), and aside from the latter 3 you don't NEED to carry out those methods, they just help (even then, with Leviathan, you can bypass the roulette phase by just going solo against her).
What I would do, is have you face off agaist the Boss early into the stage, and even beat the first form. However, once their second form begins you are severely out matched, and forced to forfeit, but not without receiving clues for what Thing Card you would need to find. It doesn't even need to be a fight that ends with a scripted lose, just a cutscene of them showing off their gimmick and solution to it in a non fight area. Like in the case of Iggy's boss fight, you could see him just roaming around in his chariot, and then the Chain Chomps get distracted by a bone, and boom. I also think that the bosses should have Things too, not a Thing card, but just some type of Real World item they found, just like how Mario does. Since they are already shown to be super OP, it would give more of a reason to why they can't be defeated by your normal cards. On incorporating the paint stars into the mix. Honestly, this would need a whole re-working on the story in general, as the individual paint stars are basically just refill spots. The whole mood thing they were going for in Roy's fight should have been a major plot point, but I really can't think of much. The whole thing with Roy's fight is that the paint changes your emotions, but the characters are already made of paint, and when Mario over paints other characters, it doesn't do anything, so you really can't go anywhere with the concept without just making more plot holes.
"heavily debated card battle system" it being "heavily debated" would imply that anyone actually supports the battle system, but I'm pretty sure it's unanimously agreed that it sucks also soundtrack is epic 11/10
Hey JABrules! I've seen measures of support for it, but that could admittedly be devil's advocate and/or reactionary to the strong wave against it. The OST bumps every way to Sunday, I absolutely agree! Thanks for checking this one out
@@skipthetutorial the only thing i like about it is usable attacks. even then, it should only be for special attacks, and basic attacks like the hammer and jump should be free. oh and bring back badges/a replacement for them. maybe you can find some rare badges that give you a perminent card of a special attack that cant be used up so that if you like a particular special move, you have the option to track down the badge for it and keep it in your deck at all times.
Megan Henderson adding onto that thought. Mario and Luigi Paper Jam I feel did a better job with its cards being stuff you collect, put into a deck and use in battle, where they get randomized after you burn them all. Having the cards be more permanent could ease up the mechanics, allowing one to focus more on the paint mechanics than the “if you use this too late, you’re completely screwed forever” mechanics. By which I mean, have the punishment be a softer micro-punishment within the battle itself, rather than the macro-punishment of having to trudge all the way back to recollect important cards. The problem here is that this makes the whole collection of cards throughout the game become less frequent by design, unless we were to have certain cards be special, and others be generic
I really like the paper koopalings, because they have personalities, personal themes, also it's the koopalings! Part of why i main bowser jr in smash are the koopaling alts!
Hey Dededelete this! I think they’re writing is great, which is a key staple of the franchise. And the sound track is definitely a blast, but I think I end with a bad taste in my mouth because of these gameplay issues. Have these fixed, and I would be the first to sing their praise - and I think it would serve as a great testament to the Koopalings being meaningful characters. Thanks for checking this one out!
@@skipthetutorial yeah, gameplay is really important for a game. Maybe i'm not really fit to talk about this game, seeing as i never played it myself, so it's highly possible that a gameplay change would be the thing that makes people like the game. Ah well.
Ever played the Bowser Jr's Journey segment of the Mario & Luigi Bowser's Inside Story remake? It gives the Koopalings added depth and expands on their relationship with Bowser Jr.
@@skipthetutorial this is also why i like Bowser Jr's Journey, though i haven't played it. The shameful part is it came on a dying console, and was the last game ever produced by Alphadream. Few years in, and it still hoits.
Being required to use a Thing card against a boss is super poor game design. It removes a player’s options instead of expanding on them like a boss should. It stinks that this is the case, as I think under all its flaws, Color Splash could’ve been a great game
Hey SC! I completely agree - it's fairly uncharacteristic for the Nintendo brand of design. It's not a test of skill, as you mention and it really is just a binary situation here. Thanks for checking this one out!
@@somethingsomething7993 There it's usually related to the dungeon you just went through or one earlier on in-game. Those are *obligatory* items you can't progress without them in dungeons, here they're optional and specific to the boss which make it kinda rough. Then again, I would like to see how they fare when I play the game as a lot of it seems pretty fun overall.
You know, it really hurts me that this game was only mediocre. It looks so beautiful, the music is great, I liked the levels and the writing was hilarious at times. I wanted to see this game succeed so bad..
@@cutiefriendsadventures7129 true, the fact that it came out on the wii u probably didn't do it very good overall tbh, I'm just affraid that Nintendo took the mediocre reception to this game as "people don't care about paper mario anymore", which would be incredibly sad.
@@maks_____ More like people don't care about this stupid battle system. Like, imagine Sticker Star's plot with the battle system of the first two Paper Mario games. The story would be crap, but at least it would be fun to play.
@@TheMaestroMizerous I don't know, it'd be nice to only have a good battle system, but one of the things that really made the first paper mario games special for me are the characters and the interesting stories. A paper mario game isn't a good paper mario game without that, even if it's fun to play.
@@maks_____ Yea, this may sound unrelated but that was probably one of the few reasons Paper Jam was so mediocre. Gameplay was great but story, worlds, etc are just meh.
The Thing cards definitely should have been optional. Similar to Hooktail and the fx badge, the Thing could have been an exploitable weakness that could still be a challenging fight if not known/used
1:08 "Color in the subscribe..." But...if the button's red, that would mean I'm unsubscribed! ;-) As soon as you mentioned it, incorporating a sort of color weakness system into the boss fights just makes so much sense! Colors give them power. Mixing other colors in disrupts it. I think that would have WAY better potential than how it currently is: "Hey, did you get the Thing? No? You lose. Yes? You win! Oh, a fight? Nah, there's no real fight." Here's hoping the next Paper Mario takes a turn back to roots like The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Oddesey!
Hey Caleb - solid point haha! A color palette system with maybe different shades or secondary colors being formed with each hit could be neat, effectively giving different status effect shifts in each increasing turn. Thanks for checking this one out - my fingers will be crossed for the return to form!
I honestly didn't think about how underwhelming the bosses were, because I was distracted by the personality of the Koopalings, and the great boss music that played. The only one I had a problem with was Lemmy, because it's hard to know when you are supposed to use your thing cards. All the other ones I enjoyed, and I felt satisfied that I figured out the timing and/or the card needed just right. I should probably pay attention to that next time I play the game. I'm currently replaying Sticker Star, and it seems the bosses are a lot better. They have massive amounts of health, and it actually feels like a challenge. It has the major downside of not hinting at what thing is needed until in the middle of a a fight, but overall they are a lot more fun to beat.
Hey DN! The other elements of the game are really fun, so it is a shame that this aspect kinda sags in comparison. I'm glad you enjoyed their supporting aspects! Thanks for checking this one out!
Hey Nickolias! Thanks for bringing this up haha - maybe it’s like shading in with a pencil? Thanks for checking this one out - I appreciate the support!
What's this? A comment section on a PM video that doesn't have an overarching negative vibe? This is a seldom sight. It's kind of funny that of what few modern PM fans there are, these people are significantly more positive than retro PM fans, despite being outnumbered by both fans and games. I don't see modern PM fans complaining about retro PM. r/hmmm 🤔 Anyway, thanks for providing a solution to the problem, rather than just addressing the elephant in the room without presenting a solution.
Hey Nathan! That’s full credit to the ladies and folks here haha - it always blows me away to see how thoughtprovoking everyone is in the discussions here. Like I said in the video, I think so much of the issue with debated topics like this is people focus on the bad instead of looking at what could have gone right. Happy to discuss my thoughts on this! Thanks for checking this one out
Well no duh the modern PM fans are more positive, they have what they want. As opposed to fans of the classic games who will probably never see another release of that type. There's a place for negativity in the world. If something is bad, people who don't complain or try to hide their disappointment will only cause more of that bad thing to happen. It's great that you enjoy modern PM, but I'm gonna keep griping about it because frankly, it sucks.
@@TheRealPunkachu hmph. I guess people are too caught in the present to realize that we all got an equal amount of what we wanted, not more or less. Such is humanity.
Yeah, even as a retro Paper Mario fan it was honestly annoying seeing the comment section filled with everyone arguing about the newer games. Even the Paper Mario videos themselves started to piss me off because they consisted of "Paper Mario used to be like this wehn I was a kid and it was awsome. But now it's like this and I don't like it, let me tell you why the newer games suck, make it out like there's nothing good about them despite Super, Sticker Star and Color Splash having fans, promote a fan game where I totally don't sound like I'm doing it out of spite because Nintendo didn't make what I want, Mario and Luigi isn't a good alternative and that Paper Mario is "dead" but people haven't been able to shut up about the newer games for the past 2 years and am hopeful for the next game on Switch."
Not really. I don't understand why people have to generalize an entire group. Not every associate of retro Paper Mario fans are the same way. The generalizing has really gotten so irritating. Most modern PM fans are just as bad as the overly negative retro ones. And their methods are the same, just in reverse. Btw I'm not here to start a debate or fight. As even I'm not a fan of the negativity, I just wanted to point out how generalizing anyone who likes retro PM games aren't all the same and that it's virtually turned into a form of miscommunication.
I liked colour splash it was fun with good writing cool mechanics. Sure it has problems but its still much better than sticker star that game was just soulless. People just give it a bad rap because its not the paper mario game they wanted. Still wish all the npc's weren't toads.
These ideas aged so well in The Origami King: -Summons are still necessary, but can always be used with enough skill and can be used several times to defend against attacks -Bosses' patterns still loop, but the solution is still different
I think the game overall would have been much better without Thing cards at all. There would be more emphasis on the paint mechanic and how it affects the world, and most puzzles would no longer just glorified fetch quests. It’s not even explained why the there are realistic objects in a papercraft world in the first place, they’re just sort of there.
Cutie & Friends Adventures I’ll admit the cutscenes are entertaining, or at least the first few times you watch it, but then you start getting sick of the unskippable cutscenes every single time you use one. Not to mention they all do pretty much the exact same thing in battle (with a few exceptions); just do a ton of damage to enemies. There’s not much strategy to them other than those bosses where a specific one is required, but can you really call that strategy?
A bit late, but something you forgotten to mention are Copy Thing cards. They act like their original counterparts, but when used with the Koopalings, they actually destroy it! They make a remark about it being a "knock-off", and proceed to their insta-death attack. (That last part is a bit fuzzy for me) Which begs the question to their existence? It's not like getting the real deals are impossible! Truly makes me wonder how (possibly) nobody said anything. I truly wonder what goes on in that director's mind. I truly do.
5:59 this is actually what happens in Sticker Star. Their "Sticker Crown" make the boss super-powerful and pretty much make them go berserk (Although there's no color theming in this one) and thanks to you, I'm now surprised they didn't use that back in some way, shape or form! I wasn't sure what was your solution for things card however but I remember it was better executed in Sticker Star. Specific things were mostly used in levels and for boss battles, if you needed a thing, it was usually basic and didn't lock you up for not finding out but it was usually harder to beat them without it although you usually had a bunch of different things that could resolve the conflict, not just one which was way better! Personally, I loved Color Splash! While the overarching plot was way too basic and the battle system was pretty bad (and it's coming from someone who liked Sticker Star's) it had great level design and each level told it's own story which is something I can really appreciate + amazing soundtrack & graphics. It was close to it's former glory but still has ways to go. Let's hope they get it better for their next game!
Hey Spongyoshi! Thanks for bringing this up - I admittedly have less time in Sticker Star, and the gameplay I sunk into it was back at release. I think Thing cards should be more incorporated to a discovery section within the fights, so you explore through the clues in the battle while surviving to sleuth out the powerful summon and end the brawl. I enjoy the game a fair amount too - and cleaning up these little bits would make it all the cleaner in my eyes. Thanks for checking this one out!
This is a great idea!! Although I got another one that is briefly used in Chapter 2, find which thing have to be used in the boss battle from all the NPC & level clues. This could also be an great alternative and could be another way to help set up the boss battle that is about to come and figuring out the thing would feel more like a puzzle rather than an arbitrary "thing" to do but either could be great honestly! I just wish it wasn't that badly implemented honestly.
If there was ONE thing I wanted out of this was the return of partners to help you through their journey as you help them. Personally, I would've had it so that Mario's old attacks didn't work on these new powered up enemies so he has to use cards to inflict just a bit more damage and the more he carried, the better results and combinations of moves to solve the solutions. Here's how we could have partners re-implemented into the game without the RPG level-up mechanics: We could have a goomba companion that much like in the first two entries, be able to detect weak spots and total HP. While the goomba cannot jump as high as Mario, the goomba can knock off certain types of helmets with spikes or slippery surfaces that prevent Mario from Jumping on them, or the goomba from bonking them. A Hammer Brother that used to do construction and carpentry that but loses his hammer when the Shy Guys invade his workplace. You help him find his stolen hammer, return it and he decides to join you because of the potential coins to earn and people to help along the way. His main function would be with flying type enemies that you cannot jump on or certain types that hide behind the environment. One of the Shy Guys you've faced from the previous encounter with the Hammer Brother is out casted and rejected by his peers. But you cannot enter the area you find him in without a password that he has, therefore you must cheer him up with coins or items you find in the nearby areas. His role would be to steal items or valuable cards from the enemies and reach locked areas. The final companion would be a ninji that could assist you in jumping to higher areas or cut out holes in the environment for travel or goodies hiding away in plain sight. The main support of these companions would be the different colors of paint that affect their mood and stats from hitting harder or being prone to certain types of attacks while taking on more of one type of paint. The cards would boost their total strength and unlock special moves unique to each companion. Each companion would favor the type of paint that would either be prone to or oppose the boss of the chapter of introduction or later. The goomba could favor blue paint because it is relatively calm but dislike green because it is gross. The hammer brother would favor red paint because of the needed passion for his work, but dislike blue because he does not like cold or damp places. The Shy Guy would love Green but dislike yellow for the attention it draws. The ninji chooses to favor yellow paint for distracting or stunning its enemies but dislike red for the heat it brings. I'd love to expand more on this but, I sadly don't have the time for it right now. I think I should however take note of this and possibly explore the idea in a video of my own. Excellent video dude and keep it up, you've earned a sub from me.
Thank you for not just whining about wanting old Paper Mario back. I seen too many videos that point out flaws and do nothing to solve them on their own merits and I'm glad you're NOT Apart of the usual pile.
Hey AJ! I like so much of this game, I can't rip on it for too long. It's really just small tweaks and a tighter and more coherent direction to really fix up the title. Plus, I don't think I can add much to the conversation if I just say "oh yeah it sucks" haha Thanks for checking this one out!
I think when videos point out flaws in Sticker Star and Color Splash, usually their ideal solution is just to go back to the old formula, which lacks those flaws.
@@TheRealPunkachu The old battle system has it's OWN problems and is taking the easy way out anyway. Any nobody can (and have) ask for the old gameplay back. But it takes actual effort to try to fix the problems WITHIN the current system.
@@almondjoy4938 Honestly the old battle system really didn't have any flaws, actually. I know everybody likes to say "nobody's perfect" and claim perfection is unachievable, but the combat system in TTYD did what it was trying to accomplish without issue. You might not enjoy that style of combat, but it wasn't inherently flawed for what it was trying to do. I'd even argue that the battle system in Color Splash is also flawless. It does exactly what it's trying to accomplish. I just don't like what it's trying to accomplish. No amount of 'fixing' the current combat system will save the next Sticker Star-like game for me. Because the developers aren't making Paper Mario games for the original audience anymore, they've clearly decided to take the series in a different direction. That's why I complain, that's why I'm sure to like all the youtube videos I see bashing the new system, that's why I voted with my wallet and didn't buy color splash. Because the only way I'm gonna get a game I like is to keep making myself heard about the game I don't. I'm sure Skip the Tutorial reads these comments, so I just want to take this opportunity to say that I love this channel, I'm already subscribed, and just because I strongly disagree on some things about Paper Mario doesn't mean I'm mad or anything. You do you, man.
Bowser is actually a pretty cool boss. Thing Cards are not necessary, he hits like a truck, the music is great, and Huey fights with you by sucking up the Black Paint. The rest of them leave a lot to be desired, though I will give Ludwig credit for creativity.
Another problem, in my eyes, is that the fights don’t really have any stakes. I really don’t have the motivation to try my hardest because... 1) The typical boss structure dictates I’m almost MEANT to fail the first time 2) The story doesn’t present as much urgency as in earlier titles. It leads to less of a difficult, investing encounter and more of another obstacle in my way. It just feels artificial!
Hey Kingslayer! You bring up some key insight here - I think the predestined failure is such a slap in the face each time. Thanks for checking this one out!
The boss battles are ruined by the game's need to force the player to use THINGS in order to KO them. This is single handedly the worst design element in both Stinker Star and Color Splash as it serves no purpose other than Nintendo forcing a gimmick onto you. There's no reason the player shouldn't just be able to use the stickers or cards in combat to defeat the boss. In Color Splashes case it's actually worse because while the process of giving the player an idea of what they need to beat the boss was fix, the actual bosses themselves are worse in design. It forces the player to attack the boss in a normal format only to arbitrarily force the player into an unwinnable feat simply so your forced to comply to the way the game wants you to win, rather than using your own means. Not helping that the Koopalings are already uninteresting as boss fights using the same gimmicks every time they battle. All of which is further complied with the repetitive nature used in the battles themselves. It limits the player's freedom and contradicts the entire point of using the battle system in unique ways. What makes it more confusing is that other mini bosses can be defeated by normal means, so why are just the main bosses limited to a THING requirement? It's completely contradicting and further compacts to the player being forced into an arbitrary limitation. There's no sort of strategy or theme to the bosses it's just waiting to use THINGS on them and then KOing them shortly after. Which basically means every means leading up to using the thing is just padding. It fundamentally ruins the design and I question why the developers thought that would be a good idea. It's terrible design. Since there is a vast variety of Jump and Hammer Cards why couldn't the player choose what they wanted to do for each boss? Maybe go into one with only a specific jump or hammer etc. I also enjoy your suggestion to fix the boss battles as well. It's weird how none of them capitalize on the game's theme of paint and colors. It certainly would've been more unique. That's like if in Pokemon you were unable to defeat a gym leader without the use of a specific move or item. Or in Super Smash Bros if you were forced to be unable to KO opponents unless you use a Item/Final Smash to KO them. You see the problem, this could be applied to any system and it would be bad, showcasing how globally awful this arbitrary restriction is. The combat system is a mess and feels more like a gimmick to experiment with than an actual fun mechanic that you can take time to learn the mechanics for. While badges weren't perfect either the charm came from how the player could create their own diversity. I'd be more forgiving if the means of selecting your moves or the THING system weren't a problem. Or if you know the player could have the ability to select their own methods in bosses? The cards could've been better organized to a menu system and the THINGs should've been more like how the Stars were used in the first two entries. Not being able to select targets is a hindrance too, this is the most basic of turn base design. All RPGs have this function. The only input needed from the player is selecting your moves and the button press for the perfect execution while Mario is on autopilot when he attacks. This is why playing Stinker Star or Color Splash isn't fun to me. Along with other problems the games just aren't my cup of tea. If other's find charm with them that's fine. I just don't.
Actually the idea of Sumer Smash bros. was made by Play Station All-Star. The game was hated for that. And seriously, Color Splash is a disaster in almost every way, specially as a part of the Paper Mario franchise. Overuse of paper comedy makes the world feels less alive (Non-paper comedy is fine), they made things unnecesarily convoluted on a lot of aspects, forces you to follow an unclear script, there's no point on facing ANYTHING, the battle system is much slower than necessary, the things are just terrible in almost every aspect and the game even has softlocks.
Your not the only one who likes it, but I did not like Color Splash. It’s not a Paper Mario game, and although the same goes for Sticker Star, that game did have amazing locations that actually reminded me of the original game
I think some of them might be fixed a little just by toning down the instadeaths and also the nerfs each Thing card does. For instance with Morton's, once he pulls out the fire hammer, don't have it do insane damage, but do increase the attack a little. It would be a lot harder without the extinguisher but still doable if you're good at blocking. And then once it's doused, don't have the boss become a complete pushover, maybe just go back to the pre-fire phase more or less so you don't just win or lose instantly just by having a card. It's probably one of the reasons why Roy feels like the only particularly good boss, because he still has a lot of fight in him even after you use the correct thing card. Or without the camera Wendy's ring will cost you one turn when it's used but again still defeatable , or in Lemmy's case don't have the ball be an instadeath or poppable but have the disco ball just buy you a few precious turns to wail on him... It'd be a very little change but would probably make a lot of difference.
Paper Mario Sticker Star is a cool game character's story and I would of wish that Color Splash would be on the switch because it looks cool ^^ character's story everything 💝
They could've brought it back accept they divide the Jumps, Hammers, Flowers, Items and Thing Cards into their own sections like the first two Paper Mario games.
The thing cards are just awful. I remember fighting on that train, not knowing at which exact moment the game wanted me to use the proper card. So I used it too early and I think the fight was then unbeatable. Or the submarine fight: Why does it let me fight when I don't have the necessary card to win? And why were these balloons hidden so randomly and easy to miss? And don't get me started on Wendy's battle. ...ugh, no, really, this thing cards are the worst. As for redesigns: Do not force thing cards. They can be an "easier solution", sure, but having them be mandatory while letting you run into an impossible battle if you don't have them is just awful. If you can still beat the enemy even if you use the thing at the wrong time or not at all should definitely be a thing. And you said "without changing the core mechanics", but can we at least have a health bar with numbers? There's no real strategy if you can't estimate an attacks impact. Really, with this underlying card system, it's hard to fix the fights.
Hey Lugmillord! I think you’re redesigns here hit the nail on the head - having a side opportunity so it’s not an instant fail and making it so there’s actual strategy in which cards you pick instead of overshooting or underperforming in damage would be slick. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here!
Although the battles in this game were sometimes annoying or bad (especially if you didn’t know what you were doing), this game did come with many great features including the humour and the music. You can’t tell me that you didn’t have a blast playing this game. The month of me playing this game was a great experience!
Cutie & Friends Adventures But he’s right. You and Solid Snake might probably disagree with him because you guys probably haven’t played the older Paper Mario games
Color Splash is a good game, but not a good PAPER MARIO game, if they had taken away the paper mario, i feel like this game would be more liked. I enjoyed it the whole way through, even if the card system was a little annoying
Hey Jonathan! The final match is definitely the most consistent of the battles, I agree there. I think it's a fun game too - just needs some small tweaks! Thanks for checking this one out!
Well of course they did! Don't you love the koopalings? After all, they were in Mario Bros 3 and World, so they need to be shoehorned into every mario sub-series so we can avoid the dangers of not seeing them for like 5 minutes.
@@notenoughgarlic If you were talking to me I didn't say they should become main stay bosses. I was just saying it was nice seeing them finally be given personality and dialogue after 30 years.
@@notenoughgarlic Oh, alright then. I'll admit I do miss the original bosses and characters too. it was one of the things that made Paper Mario stick out along with Mario and Luigi. I think it was OK for Paper Jam, Sticker Star and Color Splash to play it safe but if their aren't going to be anymore original characters and bosses that'll really suck.
Hey there, if you’re reading this long, months late comment then thanks lol. But I’m actually one of “the maybe few” people who actually very much enjoyed this game, while I can’t say it’s great it’s definitely not mediocre in my opinion even with the things I would have liked to see change. The bosses definitely. I actually think that if the thing requirement was just gone they would be fine because the fights are totally manageable up until the point where you basically need one to continue, and then afterwards it’s just a normal fight again but a second phase like other boss fights. I had the hardest time with lemmy, the last once since you need to use two thing cards in one turn, only use one and you can’t do the fight. As for their theming, none of the bosses in the entire paper Mario series really have anything to do with the item of power they possess. The star spirits don’t really have any theming or relation to the people who have them, nor the crystal stars other than maybe chapter 3, and only really one pure heart has anything to do with anyone. Even though it’s funny to think about, at least in sticker star, the bosses were directly corrupted by the shiny stickers, and bowser is corrupted in color splash, but he’s just one fight. It’s just not something I’ve minded in the entire series. And as for the card battle system...it’s ok lol. It introduces a ton of pitfalls but color splash actually tried to better it, and even still we probably won’t be seeing it again of the director is anyone to go by. Trust me I’m not just trying to be contrarian, I bought this game mostly to have my own opinion about it since I predicted that it would get a ton of hate regardless and I was able to have a lot of fun with it. If you couldn’t, I totally understand. I just think that this game’s flaws aren’t as big as some people think, and some may not be its own exactly. That’s all, thanks to whatever crazy people read all this. I appreciate you for actually offering ways to make things better instead of just complaining, whether or not those complaints are justified, which I think they are.
The only positive i can give Paper Mario Color Splash is that the Koopalings at least got more personality, and that some of their boss themes are actually catchy. Ludwig, Lemmy, Roy, Iggy, and Wendy are some of the Good ones. Heck, even the "Mini-boss" theme is good, Larry and Morton are pretty decent and even the Black Bowser Phase 1 and 2 themes are good. Graphics and Music are the only positives Color Splash has.
I made a reddit post on the paper Mario subreddit where I actually altered the game entirely. First thing I did was alter the whole paint gimmick. Now each Color represents an element, and the villain is not Bowser but the villain is actually what it should have been, The Black Paint. Or to be more precise, The Grand Black Paint Star, which possesses Bowser and corrupts the other Big Paint Stars and they in turn corrupt the koopalings. Now your goal is to rescue each possessed koopaling and the Big Paint Stars, while also coloring the island. Each boss fight forces the player to drain the evil paint off of the koopalings, and then in the second phase of the fight to deal with the corrupted Big Paint Star to restore it. I also added an 8th area and made Black Bowser's Castle the 7th area and you don't fight Roy right at the beginning of the level, but right at the end. The final world is now below the main hub town inside a Black Paint Puddle which is where you have to rescue Princess Peach and Bowser. You enter the area with the Koopalings and Huey (I did forget about him on the reddit post...lol) and in there the Big Paint Stars use their powers to power up the Koopalings and you get a rematch of All 7 Koopalings, only this time these Koopalings are Black Paint Koopaling Clones, and majority of the enemies are Black Paint enemies. During each segment of a fight you have to leave the respective koopaling behind to fight his/her Black Paint Clones, while they are powered up by the respective Paint Star that they held in the original game (I also gave Roy a new paint star, The White Big Paint Star.) You fight Black Bowser and do beat him, but you are unable to defeat the Grand Black Paint Star without the help of the other Big Paint Stars in which the koopalings (who end up together in a section of the level) decide to send the Big Paint Stars Mario's way while using the last bit of their respective color Paints to hold off the hoard of Black Paint Koopaling Clones that keep respawning. (In the background of the area you see more Koopaling Clones created with the plan of using them to spread the terror of black paint out in the entire world.) When Mario beats the Grand Black Paint Star, Mario has to rush with Peach, Bowser, and the Koopalings out of the portal and make it out (time-limit at the end) and the Black Puddle vanishes from where it came from. The ending is now a happier ending as Bowser asks the Big Paint Stars if they can paint his shell like he wanted to do before all of this happens and the Big Paint Stars gift his request. The game ends with the koopalings running around with the toads and paint and even some of the shy guys run around tossing paint at each other. My main focus was possession and how each Koopaling gets possessed by a specific color paint, and the fact that Bowser gets blamed for a problem that he had zero control over.
the sticker star playstyle wouldnt even be so bad if they didnt require a very specific sticker/card to deal with. they handled this playstyle extremely poorly. i wish they'd either just fix it, or give us one of the styles from the first 3 games again. i miss my good battle system, my partners, my story, my everything. and yes, i said 3. i'd gladly even take another game like super paper mario over this.
I just realized color splash bosses steal the same idea they used with hooktail and badge making him weaker, and used that same formula for every single boss, but made it worse. wow.
Personally I like the idea of things, giving you the tools to exploit a bosses weakness and really speed up the pace of fights ( I usually prefer fights that are on the quicker end and some RPGS seem to be in love with fights that take upwards of an hour to finish), but the real stumbling block is not making them optinal , I remember Sticker Star had a few bosses like this too, and can surely be frustrating for anyone who might not know the items they need, and can make the bosses a joke for those who do; The most simple fix would be to just make them optinal, making it so you can beat the bosses with just jumps and hammers, or at least make the big attacks where a thing would be a counter less punishing so players can recover and keep fighting, becase i'm sure we can all agree Insta-Kills can easially feel cheap
Hey Aran! I think there's a fun conclusion concept there, it just all comes down to their implementation. The predestined loss is tough to take, and stands out as the worst bit of design in the game, in my opinion. But, I think your idea of having a tougher outcome where you can still win with your main arsenal would be nice. Thanks for checking this one out!
Maybe i'm just misremembering, but didnt the Squid boss Reqire the Sponge Thing, and a thing or two before/during Bowser? the game wasn't really memorable so I could be completly wrong
Ah, I just love when people tear my favourite games to shreds! But you're right, WAY more could've been done here! It really is sad how much unused potential there is in this game.
What if they are simply just trying to give the Koopalings more personality instead like they deserve? Of course, it doesn't really help that these latest game ideas aren't expanded past just the Koopalings tho. If they can make a big game that focuses on multiple characters as well as have the Koopalings in it (but still play a somewhat larger role), I think that would be a very good balance of things.
At least in Sticker Star, the non-Bowser bosses were simply really difficult, but not impossible without using specific thing cards. But jeez that Bowser fight was awful. I can't figure out how they took one of the worst, most repetitive fights from any RPG ever made, from a game that was so critically panned that they should be avoiding its mistakes like the plague, and made that the baseline for Color Splash's bosses.
I know the final boss is quite the spoiler obviously, but were they not mentioned for that reason? Or is it simply that they didn't require anything specific? I haven't gotten to the end just yet until I get all the banners myself, (Roshambo Temples... UGH!) but from what I've read of the fight, its a change of pace from the others.
I think the only way to make these bosses better is to overhaul the battle system,but i'll give it a try. these bosses would be alot better if they just removed the thing card system. then instead of just using the right card at the right time to progress the fight,they would simply be powerful cards you can use in battle. but the how would you hit iggy's chariots? or hit the lubsub? simple, YOU CAN HIT THEM NOW. Make all the phase 2 bosses BARABLE to fight. Also, I don't know if anyone else felt this way, but some of these bosses are way too easy! like Larry, he is too easy for this late of a boss! His attacks should at least deal more damage.
I actually liked Paper Mario Sticker Star because Nintendo did wanted to do something different and see if people would like it but since people didn’t like it I could say Nintendo should then just try to go back to the way people wanted the series to be, but Nintendo was just being lazy and didn’t realize that people didn’t like there new concept to the series and because of that Nintendo was like: people liked our new concept so let’s continue it with our next Paper Mario game. But since they were again lazy, I did not like Color Splash. I liked there new concept with Sticker Star but since other people did not like it, I said to myself: Nintendo should listen to fans but since they didn’t listen to their fans, I’m afraid I’m gonna have to dislike Color Splash.
The boss fights would have been much better if the thing cards behaved like the Cricket badge in TTYD or like using Robot masters weakness against them. You COULD use them to make the fight easier but you still have the option to fight the boss the way you want to without receiving a huge punishment.
I think that they should either remove the thing cards or make them IMPOSSIBLE to miss before the boss, similar to how the Zelda games require specific items to get through the dungeons and beat the bosses that you find within those dungeons.
Imo the only really good fights in this game are Roy and the final boss. Roy does fall under the use the thing mechanic, but that's saved right to the end and most of the fight is you going 1v1 his paint gimmick is actually pretty interesting and makes the player adapt new strategies And Bowser cause Im pretty sure no things are involved, the fights intense, great music, and there's a lot of thinking involved in how you deal with the lava bubbles
The Thing cards should be used to make the boss fights Easier, like the cricket hammer in the 1000 year door, but not make the boss fights Possible, it should be possible in the first place...
You think they'll bring back the koopalings if they made another paper mario series thats like the original two paper mario games with OC and Better battles?
Hey King Shawn! I think there’s a lot of room to play around with for those bosses in a future sequel, and I hope they’re not abandoned entirely. They can be some compelling characters if well designed, and CS showed promise of the character side of that, just not he gameplay. Thanks for checking this one out!
Skip the Tutorial I hope so. I gotta say not a lot of people are not happy with this game and sticker star. They gotta make new partners for Mario and new badges.
I can think of two easy ways to make things cards not so broken. As Andrew Smith said, there are more variations to defeat the boss. also, that the boss only receives between 1/2 or 1/4 damage for the things cards.
6:20 how about there's someone you need to hit with purple paint, but to do that, you need to hit them with red and then blue so that they mix. But when they have red paint only, they get super angry and attack really strongly for until the blue is added on. Maybe the gimmick could be trying to figure out which color to hit them with first? like yellow making their attacks fast until red is added and it makes orange.
The thing card idea just forces the player to follow some *cut out* trail instead of thinking outside the box, they could have improved the card and thing system simply by giving them multiple uses and a chance to replenish these uses via payment or paint, if they simply did that I’d be soo much better
I would rather boss fights with no koopalings and there would be multiple ways to beat the bosses. Example you could use the ice flower on Morton which would take longer but easier to get or the fan which would be quicker but then you would lose it
I just fixed Iggys fight. What if it was a chariot race to the finish and you have to make it to the end before Iggy. Iggy lets you get the star cause you won. And only projectile attacks can be used because you are both in chariot cart race
to me the paper splash problem seems like another one of those its not ____ its different so its awful without a doubt but to me a person who never played much of the old paper mario games it was actually really fun and it might also be because i like card games also i have no idea why no one said it but this game is basically kingdom hearts chain of memories
They need to just revert battles back to ttyd days with maybe the option to speed up or skip intro scenes to fights, that's when battling in paper mario was it's best 😡
@@creeperizak8971 We fight Bowser and BJ all the time too--moreso than the Koopalings, so would you say that Mr. Blizzard is more unique that either of them? I just don't really see how that changes the fact that it is just a giant snowman that throws snowballs and jumps on people or how that is more unique than any of the Koopalings or their battles in Color Splash. =/
There are actually original bosses like Megasparkle Goomba, Tower Power Pokey or Mizzter Blizzard (not Mr Blizzard, you know the one with a bucket on the head) but there are also bosses we have seen in other Mario games like Gooper Blooper or Petey Piranha. But hey at least all these bosses didn’t appear on too many Mario games (well maybe except Petey Piranha) like the Koopalings.
@@gamingproductions1232 Yeah sorry, I don't count any of those as original bosses since, again, they are all just big versions of generic enemies....all of which have been used multiple times in past games (even the Mr. Blizzard). And the Koopalings are in, like, 20 games--INCLUDING ports and remakes. How is that too many? That is next to nothing compared to other characters who are around as old as them. Rosalina, who isn't even a third as old as they are, is in more games than they are overall. Why is it ok for her but not them? I am detecting serious levels of prejudice towards the Koopalings from here and everyone else who says they are "everywhere".
-and since Color Splash didn't do so well, they took it as a failure and we won't be seeing another game from this series in a LONG while. Which is a shame because even though Super Paper Mario plays a lot differently, the story is pretty good once I gave the game a chance.
Come on. The game was on a console that was on its knees, and the fact it followed in Sticker Star's formula was working against it. They should take the message that we don't want this kind of formula for the next game.
No, we'll see a title at some point during the Switche's life. they make a Paper Mario game per home console. It more than likey wasn't a shocked to them that it didn't do a million copies since it's on a actual dead system.
Dear Skip The Tutorial: I'm so sorry to disagree with you; i think that, even this game was launched for the Wii U, which sadly was a console with very low sales, and the bosses are a little bit simples, i think the thing i love the most of this bosses are that to continue with them you NEED a special Item Card, and that makes you explore for the Thing you need, plus, you have to know WHEN and WHO you have to use the Thing Card. But I loved the manner you looked at close at the bosses. From Mexico, Sebastian
Hey FG! It definitely takes a more realized approach to its style, but I think the overall concept lacks coherence needed to make compact design, so it floats in this halfbaked middle ground between two stronger ideas, whereas Sticker Star sunk in that same area. Thanks for checking this one out!
I think the pedal stool was executed better in Super Mario RPG in the fight with that Shyster sword thing (I don't remember his name, I think it was Mark or something.). At some points, the sword would fly up, leaving some Shysters behind. This gives Mario a chance to kill them and gain HP (One-hitting an enemy has a chance of maxing out your health.), which gives Mario a chance when the sword drops back down.
