#asoiaf #gameofthrones #georgerrmartin Patreon 😸 patreon.com/user?u=80421914&u... Buy Me A Coffee ☕ www.buymeacoffee.com/manofthemoc Taking a little look at the idea that Howland warged (skin changed) Arthur Dayne at eh Tower of Joy....
RU-vid is upset at me apparently... I think its cuz I didn't upload in a while and then I saw yesterday I got hit with a copyright strike? Which is weird cuz I get all the music from Creative Commons... So I think the new one got buried by the tube..
I've always thought that Robb warged Catelyn right before he died. The way she claws at her eyes; the same way Thistle does. Robb says 'Mother' before he says 'Grey Wind'.
The idea that Howland had his "Hodor Moment" with Arthur Dayne is an interesting one. Honestly, I prefer the idea that Arthur Dayne is dead-dead (any similarities to Mance or others being intentional but thematic, not to indicate they *are* Arthur.) So with that in mind, in a moment of sheer desperation, when Howland Reed is about to flip his lid, watching perhaps his only real friend about to die, he has his "Hodor Moment" and that causes Arthur to spasm and/or freak out. Then Ned lands a blow he otherwise would never have been able to -- this is mere seconds, there's no time to consider his options, his battle blood is up, and then Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Freakin' Morning is lying on the ground bleeding out in front of the Tower of Joy. And Ned isn't sure *what* just happened, but that something very, very, very weird happened. And Howland is somehow connected to it, but it seems like an act of the Old Gods. It would be one of the strangest moments for someone like Ned, who may have just had his "holy crap the gods are watching out for me" moment, but all the same, he feels conflicted about the way it happened. I really, really dig that. I love GRRM's tendency to mirror and echo events in the books, and Howland and Bran both getting a "Hodor Moment" is the perfect echo.
So wouldnt it be funny if we meet Howland and hes just like a vegetable almost, like think Drogo when Dany has him returned by ritual... We see him and he's dead eyed, being feed fish stew through a tube as he sightlessly watches the room... Then we learn that his mind never came back and the true Howland died in Daynes body leaving only a husk... Now thats some GRRM shit...
Always something I've been thinking about. As far as I see it Sword Dawn has something magical to incredibly increase the ability of the wielder, but the artefact passes to a masterful wielder in the first place. This means Swordofthemorning becomes nearly invincible... but not if they have no mental presence with the sword for which one needs to be worthy, which is where Reed comes in. Also, ned must have been quite a mid swordsman in comparison to the legendary Dayne covered in full plate
Dawn is telepathic, meaning the individual who wields it must have skin changer genes to be able to use it to its full ability. Thats why only certain individuals can wield it.
Love your theories man. I dont know why I dont get notices when you put out new stuff. To me, Hodor's mind is messed up so it makes it a whole lot easier for him to be skin changed.
Tbh I miss them too 😂 I need to grind on the two I have in production rn.. Been a bit distracted by irl stuff... Like Im writing a response to comments Cornel West made in regards to the invasion of Ukraine.. and im grinding a bit on more serious projects... But I haven't forgotten about the asoiaf videos and they shall return soon!
5:08 i have always found that tale confusing it sounds like if it was Meera father then he was there for like 300 years. Its only once he leaves the isle of faces when he comes across Harrenhal. Wtf he would have had to pass by it to travel from river over land to the lake. Also this tale specifically makes me think the Frays specifically built the twins to decline travel from the people in the neck to being able to travel to the gods eye.
@@randominternetguyoffical The reasons I felt like this was potentially the original reason for the twins as well as a way to collect tolls and wealth is the hatred little and big walder have for the Frog eaters the fact that Mirra says the man in the tale had to travel past the twins at night or he would have been attacked. Then in another story they talk of all the dead freys and knights in those bog depths. She also says all crannogmen know and fear the two towers of Frey when talking of the sigil of one of the knights of the squires who assaulted him. If you look at a map The Twins right outside of the neck not very trafficked in terms of river points but perfect spot to obstruct anything coming out of the neck by river. Then the only reasonably place to get out of the river to get into the gods eye you would have to travel over land pass right where Harenhal is now unless you went super far out of your way. Someone that has to carry a boat would take quickest rout unless major reason not to. And are supposedly fearful person who wants to remain unscene which seems odd that they try to avoid being scene. That just is so much work to get to the gods eye and there are two things that perfectly block access for anyone traveling on this pilgrimage Twins and Harrenhal It's took 40 years for harrenhal to be built as well and to not know what castle it is until you get there is odd even if living in the neck you would have to have heard about mad harren plundering for resources to build largest castle ever that's if it hadn't been built before going in the lake. If it was already built well they'd have had to have saw it when getting in the lake unleas made some crazy choice to go far around out of the way. Mirra also says her people's hands were made for rowing ores then jousting. Just your general paddling around the neck I don't think would constitute a good enough reason to associate ores and crannogmen and there skill at it. Now if for thousands of years Crannogmen have been making this Trek to the gods eye and back that is worthy of constituting that association to ores that's some heavy duty rowing especially the upstream back trek. But the twins get built they stop being able to do this so the person in the story not being capable of just leaving due to the dangers involved has to get strong desire to leave because of there I'll treatment by people since most don't like crannogmen and find there ways to be queer. So when he does do it seems pretty important that he not be scene by frays so has to travel by night or be attacked. Not pay a toll not hinder or slow the journey but be attacked. The tale Mirra tells is suppose to come across as history but everything leading up to him meeting the Starks seems like a completely different erra.
I don't believe anything mental went on but Howland wouldn't necessarily have needed to take over Arthur, just distracting him could be enough. At that point it's not much different from a physical distraction and not really necessary but would still feel reasonable if GRRM were to say it happened that way.
This is why I believe he threw a net on him lol Its a distraction that is used over and over again by his Daughter in the books and she rolls with Bran, who's maybe gonna peep the events there? maybe not tho, who knows at this point if grrm wants to actually show it or keep it a secret.
Gotta take it also with a grain of salt that Varamyr was also weakened and near death when he dared to try this body snatching which also brings into question what a prolonged wargig into one body would do.
@randominternetguyoffical but like does the person whose body gets taken slowly lose all presence in the body or does their conscience merge with the warg that stole their body becoming a totally new person in theory a Mashup of the two people.
@Argos-xb8ek I think that the consciousness is kind of merge together like we get a bit of knowledge about that. When it comes to people merging into animals and in older GRRM stories the consciousness is sharing two bodies can often merge.
Crenoggmen fight with nets. you don't need to skinchange if you can throw a net on somebody. Dayne's mobility would have been hampered by the net & Ned would have been able to fight him easierly.
wait, this is a fan theory!? some fans do think that HR is the most super powerful keystone characted ever! Bran is on his way to becoming the mightiest greenseer of Westeros, who has been entering the mind of a terribly damaged dumb kid, while Howland Reed doesn't even share his kid's abilities & was facing a King's Guard who comes from another deeply mystical House.
It was a pretty big response when I made the 1st tower of joy video. So I thought I should comment on it. I don't really think its likely but its certainly a well loved idea
@@randominternetguyoffical well, if you want to make the whole asoiaf fandom mad, just make a video about "why Jon Snow might no longer be a POV character", as he would be the very 1st undead character to have POV chapters, unlike Cat Tully/ Lady Stoneheart.
It never occurred to me magic was involved in the duel. I was shocked at the backlash the GOT episode received where Howland just shanks Arthur in the throat.
I always figured it was just an epic duel too.. There was a lot of responses with the warging theory tho so I figured I'd give some thoughts cuz I just don't really think its a likely theory
Howland reed might have just skin changed for a moment to give ned a chance to strike. Howland then just went back to be his own body since it wasn't freezing to death.
Idk, if it works like that. Varimir seems to be unable to stop the process(?) Or at least that was my take, like he seems to get ejected by force into thin air dying and then passing into his wolves(?) Also doesn't explain Why Dayne wouldnt have regained control a second after or why he wouldnt have gone mad, which like Ned really should have commented on. Not only would it have made sense but the parallel was right there and I don't believe GRRM woulda left it on the table. Only Winds and Dream can tell but I think we can rule out Warging... which means... ITS NET SEASON BABY
@@randominternetguyoffical net makes sense tbh but ned doesn't remember tower of joy fight very well. The explanation would be better if it's just trauma of his sisters death and need to protect the child (Jon snow/dany). Instead of magic and if howland could warg he would probably teach his children to warg considering jojen has green dreams.
@@Ule_blood Im skeptical cuz Meera can "breathe mud" but like clearly she cant, shes just a good wilderness survivor. So i think its more metaphorical than a literal thing.
Could Arthur be the actual father of Jon, as well as being Mance? Arthur was right there... Rhaegar was apparently a vain jerk...and if Lyanna was like Arya she'd fight and run eventually, Then Rhaegar would have ordered Arthur to capture and hold Lyanna for him, and watch her 24/7. Eventually Arthur would fall in love with her and despise Rhaegar too... Mance kept coming back to Winterfell while Jon was growing up. And when he was glamoured and fought Jon he fought like it was vitally important to him that Jon was a better, more talented fighter. And Mance wants to get in the Crypts where Lyanna is...
To me that a lot to extrapolate, at least to me.. Like counter point, why would Dayne fall in love? What if he loved Rhaegar more? What about vows? Why did no one recognize Mance if he's actually the most famous modern kingsguard with purple eyes? What about all the brothers who knew Mance after he was brought back as kid on a ranging an raised on the wall? Was the fight anything other than just a fight between Mance and Jon, like is there anything to indicate this? To me its a bit more of a fanfic what your suggesting than anything we actually see in the text. I go into a long debunk of mance = dayne in an older series, but if youre being serious there's nothing there but "what ifs" and direct contradictions like with the Dornishmans Wife song.. On a side note, why do people not like Mance being who he is? Like why do they prefer if he's Dayne? Is it just cuz of Jon or is it more cuz folks wanna see Dawn again or something?
I dont even think bran needs to time travel hodor, hodor could just be a simpleton and this makes it easier to warg him. We also see hodor is quite a gentle and timid person, hiding in his mind when bran wargs him rather than fighting back.
@ChezzyKnytt why hodor is hodor is canon in show according to grrm.. i mean he could always retcon but rn why makes hodor hodor is that he got time warged by bran
Sure, but unless howland is bran levels of powerful and doing a time warg on someone all book evidence that we see implies he'd suffer the fate varamir suffered.. Or at least something similar.. And Ned makes no mention of the greatest knight of his generation screaming "GET OUT!!!", biting his own tounge out and clawing at his eyes before collapsing into a screaming heap... So like, idk.. maybe, no reason to think so tho. Where as we do see Howland kid take down larger and faster opponents with a Net... so just puttin that out there 🤣
