Did I make a Mistake? Splitting Elm for Longbow Staves. I prepare an Elm Stave for Quick Drying 

+James W Hi James, that’s a very kind comment - thank you so much. Appreciate you noticing how much goes into them.

Hello Denmark! Thank you for watching and taking time to let me know you enjoy my videos. Appreciated. Mick

+Clan Gunn Bushcraft Sometimes she’s not that polite😉😉 Stay safe Andy 👍

So you find elms in the 10 to 15 year age? Before the Disease takes over? Is there lots of good elm for bows in UK? Its bad in the US to.

Up to about 25 years before the elm succumbs to the disease. There are very few big elms in the UK, but there are many elm 'suckers' - elm saplings that grow from the rootstock of elms killed by DED. These are what I am harvesting before they too fall prey to the disease.

Real shame cause its a great bow wood.. Ive read that the Chinese elm makes great bows? But never seen any strait staves, in china they are used for the ears of the composite horn bows.

the 130lb elm bow , was that from a small sucker?

Thank you!

Ha, thank you very much!!

I wish I was! But thank you all the same. Fingers crossed!

+Chris Martin Thank you very much Chris!

Thank you Kissao. Appreciate you noticing my editing etc - I'm slowly learning!!

Thank you!

You are right, mistakes are opportunities - and this one may not be a mistake as it seems there are many views of what is the correct way!!

+Crajneel Chand Enjoy lunch Raj! Tea time here!!!

Hi John, yes sad times indeed. My youth had a backdrop of massive elms, nearly one for every hedge it seems looking back. I was too young to be involved in the felling of the diseased trees but I well remember watching as they brought down those wonderful, reaching goliaths and then made huge fires with them. Even then, there was something dreadful about that sight; and from this distance, the sadness remains. Anyway, thanks for watching John. Good weekend. Mick

Hi Steve, so you've got some elm! Mine doesn't have those silver veins - maybe it is the fungus? I'm looking forward to making the bow, just hope I don't get too much twist from that stave. Cheers.

Thank you! And Ben says hello. Don't know where I'd be without him ;-)

Thank you Ignace!

Thanks, hope so!

Well done!

Hi James, I grew up on farms in the UK and in the late 60s and 70s Dutch elm disease rampaged through our countryside. The elm you describe reminded me of the many English elms on local farms, massive trees, like giants watching over the fields. Seeing them felled and burned was soul-destroying, like seeing the slaughter of massive beasts. Yes I guess those big trees such as you describe and the ones I fondly remember, were well over one hundred years old. Thanks for your story and watching. Mick

Hi Kyle, thank you! Do you mean JR's Place? John Riggs? If so, I have watched many of John's interesting videos - but thank you all the same. I handled an elm longbow recently, 130lb in draw weight. It was a hefty bow but not unusually wide or flat. Certainly it was a lovely what I'd call English style longbow - complete with horn side nocks. I aim to produce something similar, though not so heavy. Not sure how our elms differ from yours but yes, I've heard many times that elm makes a great bow wood. I'm looking forward to it! Thanks for watching!

Yes, ash die back looks like it is coming. I remember the devastation of the elms in the late 60s and 70s. Hate the idea of it happening to ash.

Thank you! Yes I left it somewhat oversize, I am not racing to get it dry - I'd just like to avoid it turning in to a writing snake of a stave. Yes a string (currently!) runs down the middle - fingers crossed. If I can work it within a month or two I'll be happy. Of course it shed some moisture before I split the tree so maybe it won't take too long. Anyway, thanks for the advice on the last video. Just got to get the lard off my old gloves now.... ;-)

haha to the lard! Just imagine yourself as Otzi the iceman or some native american guy who has a spare stave seasoning covered in tallow. That is what they would have done. Always have one as back up incase their hunting bow got damaged. I always love the link to the past with bowyery/archery, end of nerd dream.

I'm still mourning the loss of my lard. Got to get some more now before I make hot water pastry for a game pie... Always worth having a spare pie seasoning ;-)

hmm pie!!!!! A days shooting with pie for laters, oh my word, heaven.....

Agreed. And guess whose next week is like that...... :-)

Hi Chris, thank you very much! Good luck with your oak, I imagine that'll be a bit tough like elm. Never worked red oak or any of our native UK oaks so I'm afraid I have no tips on making a bow from it. Sorry! The best of luck though, I wish you well. Cheers! Mick

Yes, the stump left after felling my elm in July already has ten inch long shoots. It came from an area in our wood that must be above the rootstock of a big elm killed years ago. There are tens of saplings there, some of which I'll take before they get the disease - too late for others though, some biggish ones are rotting standing trees and too far gone for bows. Cheers again.

Hi there Rather and thank you. The music is called "Another World" by Jonathan Lyenyen. It is part of a series of themed music which is available for licensing by movie makers (though anyone can access to listen) from a company called Epidemic Sound. I use them for licensing all the music on my youtube videos. Thanks for watching.

Hi there, there could be several things going on here. One is something called the archer's paradox - the way an arrow finds itself around a longbow and flies straight - after flexing - as it leaves the bow. I am a long way from being anywhere near an expert on how an arrow behaves and hitting targets (check out Gary Chynne on youtube for fantastic videos on how to 'aim' an English style longbow) but your arrows will fly straight from a longbow if they are of the right stiffness (spine) for your bow. If the bow is 50lb in draw weight, then your arrows should ideally be matched to that bow's weight. You don't need a groove/arrow shelf cut into the bow. There could be an issue issue with how you are holding/drawing the bow. If you shoot off your (for example) left bow hand, then you can easily cause the arrows to fly to the left if you get your draw wrong or your 'aim'. You might also have some issue with how the bow string lies along the bow - which might cause misflight. That's all my limited knowledge can say the problem might be. Get some face to face to face advice if you can! Thanks for watching. Mick

How far to the side (away from the line of aim at full draw) and why will depend upon a number of contributing factors. These can be considered as four sets. The basic set-up geometry, the working spine of the shaft, the condition of the equipment and the ability of the archer. In the final analysis, everything is the responsibility of the archer. Rod. It's meant to be simple, not easy.

It's almost impossible to narrow it down to the exact cause of the issue without seeing pictures of the bow at full draw and a video of the archer shooting the bow. That being said the most common cause of that is arrow tuning. There's tons of research out there on that subject. Basically once you have a bow finished and broken in you want to match your arrows specifically to that bow for the best results. Spine, length, fletchings and material are subject to adjustments. Of course this is assuming the archer has good form. So if your a beginner I'd suggest using a lighter target bow and focusing on form for a while and then focus on the finer details if you think it's still needed.

I have no argument with the opening sentence of Kyle's post above and the advice for beginners is valid, but IMHO the most common cause of arrows going astray is not "arrow tuning" since even the most perfect equipment can be shot erratically. This is confirmed by Kyle's qualification "assuming that the archer has good form". My experience is that the number one cause of shooting errors is, always has been and quite likely always will be that of archer induced errors. In fact if I were being strict about it I would include poor equipment selection and set-up in that category. "The arrow always goes where the archer makes it go". Regardless of intent. While the subconscious mind cares about our intentions, the arrow cares about nothing. Basic Definition: "With a right handed archer, holding the bow upright in the left hand, placing the arrow on the inside (left-hand side) of the bow and using an outside (right-hand side, fingers hooked) hold on the string, the arrow will deviate to the left when one or more of the following statements are true". Opening Remarks: - Shooting errors tend towards a noticeable degree of inconsistency whereas faults arising from unchanging equipment & set-up faults tend to be more consistent. If this is not immediately apparent the sample is probably not large enough. - Where shooting errors and equipment/set-up faults occur in combination, they can cancel each other out, but this might be an intermittent effect. - Don't discount the importance of the mental process, it is very real and too often ignored or under-rated. But don't use it to excuse ignorance of other more obvious fundamentals. - The information below is intended to encourage thinking about the process as much as it might be prescriptive about that same process. The List of Causes: ( i ) The arrow pass is too wide. Comment: Extreme cut-away (& arrow shelves) on what some folks call the "traditional" bow are, in an historical perspective, recent innovations. In terms of general acceptance a little less than 100 years old? It is possible to obtain a spine match for a plain self-bow that will shoot where the arrow is pointed at full draw if the pass is not too wide. I like a set-up with the side contact not more than 17/32" (call it half-an-inch) off centre at most and with a slightly high brace-height. Find what works for you now, but with an eye to improving. The best solution is capable of shooting a tighter group, if the archer is good enough to do it. Think about the "good enough for now" principle. The cross-sectional shape at this point can also be a factor. Is rounded is better than squared off? Does it move the point of contact further away or closer? Which is better and why? How much difference does it make? ( ii ) The brace-height is too low. Comment: Raising or lowering the brace-height modifies the offset angle & the amount of disruption. Think about it. ( iii )The shaft is too stiff (or point too light). Comment: The frequency of bending needs to be in sympathy with the set-up (brace-height and draw-weight, plus other contributing elements, most commonly point weight and bow type/string material). The basic rule in this case is that "too stiff" goes left, "too weak" goes right, "perfect" can go where it is pointed (all else being equal). A left-hander should read left for right, right for left. ( iv ) The shaft is not straight or point is misaligned & the "round the clock" pattern in spiralling flight is to the left (9 o' clock) at that distance. Comment: Straightening shafts is a core skill when we shoot with wooden arrows. But a skilled archer will often shoot better with imperfect arrows than an unskilled archer will with perfect arrows. ( v ) Arrow not pointed where you think, check dominant eye & full draw alignment. Comment: As an instinctive archer I shoot with both eyes open so that my subconscious can "see" the distance by means of my stereoscopic vision. Being right handed & right eye dominant means that do not have shoot with an offset to compensate for being "cross dominant". ( vi ) The bow-hand throws to the left of the aimed line in the loose. Comment: This often happens when the bow arm is stronger than the drawing arm. Let the push/pull forces at full draw be in balance. Consider this and practice. Styles of shooting from the "outside" (thumb ring, kyudo etc) rely upon using a bow-hand reaction to counter a cast-off to the right caused by specific elements in this style of shooting. ( vii ) The string hand or fingers throw the rear end out from the aimed line during the loose. Comment: Can one straight line be drawn from your elbow to the mark, passing through fore-arm, wrist, hand, fingers and shaft to the mark? Throwing away or letting down the loose is a bad habit. Keeping your key fingertip where it is at anchor, push back your elbow as you relax the fingers which lets the arrow slip. Think about it. Be smooth. Be consistent. ( viii ) Not focused on the mark - archer looking at the whole thing/shape & at instant of loose attention resting on left-hand part of the outline. Comment: We navigate our visual environment looking at shapes, movement, colour & context. But if we look at the whole object we will be looking at some part of the outline when we shoot, so we are very likely to send the arrow there. Just remember that the subconscious will try to sent the arrow where we are looking. This is an example of hand/eye co-ordination. fwiw Rod.

Thank you Kruno. I don't steam wood simply because my facilities and space don't easily allow me to do that. I will try it one day when I have more space etc. Thanks for watching and good luck with your bows!

I can't say but I am not dogmatic when it comes to stuff like this - if that works for you it's fine. I have worked only one fully seasoned yew stave and that had the bark intact - but I'm not sure if that means anything. Anyway, good luck!

It has worked fine with ash and hazel but not oak

I guess we both have to learn what others already know and our ancestors took for granted! Keep experimenting, that's all I do.

Just the ends. Mick

Hi Pete, I keep some of my bows in the shed in summer, but never in winter. Yes, damp/condensation can be a problem. I move these bows indoors. I put them in our garage which is part of the house - it's dry and at a fairly even temperature. It's not heated directly but benefits from being part of a heated building. I think you can overdry a bow so I would avoid somewhere that's too hot. In my view, if the bow can get cold enough then condensation may form at some point. A tube might not be as good as in freely circulating air if it does get damp (I had an ash bow in the shed and it had mould on it after a few months in the winter; that's what taught me to keep them indoors. I have never used silica gel (which absorbs moisture, those little sachets you get in some packages) to keep bows from getting damp but that might be a thought if the bow must be in the shed in a tube. That said, if your shed is heavy duty, sheltered and totally dry then you might not have anything to bother about. But I would bring it indoors if at all possible.

Its coming inside then ,dont care what she says ,just dont tell her indoors lol ;) ,thanks buddy ;)

Zipped!

good man ;)

Difficult to say. Has the bow taken 'set' - permanently altered shape as a result of bending? You say the bend doesn't let it return straight - was it, therefore straight in the first place? I'm not quite clear if you have a bent bow stave, that was bent from day one, or a weak place around a kink in the stave that has gotten worse because of bending. Heat may solve those problems but it would be good for you to be clear what you are fixing. Dry heat works for me - both to straighten wood and also to increase its 'strength' but if you have a very dry ash bow then maybe steam would be safer. My experience of heat bending wood is limited to that which you have seen me do the videos posted on my channel. Not much!! Good luck.

it was bendt from the stave

Hello, he peeped from behind me!!

Mick Grewcock heehee. He looked like a bird up in a tree ! Lol

There may be, but I am not the guy to ask. I wish I knew but I find just using one bit of wood still a challenge!! I guess that's how laminates work, woods with differing properties combining to create close to the ideal. Good question, sorry for my lousy answer. Hope you are well.

+Rod Parsons Nothing to report having removed bark, still healthy and no noticeable advantage/disadvantage as to split. I’ve identified several elms that I’ll take this autumn and will mark orientation etc before felling. Thanks for the reminder.

I agree with Rod. The width should have been a little wider to reduce lateral twist as it sheds moisture quickly.

Plus it doesn't hurt to leave tip width and handle alignment with some latitude for adjustment until last. As far as reduction and drying procedure, if you're really in a hurry you can go to squared off ready-to-floor tiller dimensions, but always leaving the tips wide, take the bark off, seal back and ends and put it to dry before tillering. I've come to think that clamping the stave down doesn't do a heck of a lot apart from delay the event if it has internal tensions that need to dissipate when it is split or reduced. Best solution is to choose a better piece in the first place, or just live with it and correct it after it has settled down.

I always put the side of the tree resisting gravity as the back of my bows so the wood gives me some reflex as it dries out and make a faster shooting bow. Tension wood is your friend on the back of your staves but it goes pear shaped and lateral twisty nightmares if the reaction wood is laid wrong in the stave. Even clamped I have gone downstairs after 2 weeks indoors to find a perfectly nice stave turned into a boomerang!

Okay, a lesson absorbed. Next time. One day I'll stop being a beginner I guess!

I seeeeeeeeee.