Did Jesus Think He Was the Messiah? 

I’m just here for the Megan’s glasses and hair changes

Bart, doing a podcast, a daily blog, being a college professor, writing books, doing online courses, guesting on other podcasts, speaking on a cruise..................: Ha ha I'm too busy We noticed, Bart! Take care of yourself!

"there's a mess here, but no Messiah." - Monty Python fans get it. 🤓

BART has new mic or something?

Best hair color yet Megan!

I have learned so much from listening to Dr.Ehrman's explanations of the gospels. I know some will not agree with his views but they are compelling.

I am genuinely curious how Megan stays a Christian know what she knows. I’d love if Bart interviewed her

...What happened to Bart's voice? It sounds younger.

Always wonderful! I notice an upgrade in sound and camera work. Looks and sounds better! And the hair is terrific!

Amazing podcast this time! Really loved how Dr. Ehrman explained about what the actual historical Jesus wouldve said using the verse of 12 apostles ruling the 12 tribes in the future. These kinda nuances and trying to figure out the mysterious bits is why this podcast is so good! Do cover such topics always! Thank you both of you❤

As someone who has more than a passing interest in language and Norse philosophy/ religion, here's another question: why did we use the word Hell for the mediaeval demonic pit of torments? Hel, both the person and the place, in the Nordic mythos is not bad, and even has a bit of beauty (in the half of Hel's face that faces towards Midgard) but is mostly kind of dull, not at all unlike Hades or for that matter, Sheol. What word did that lunatic John of Patmos use when describing eternal torment? Where did the repurposing of Sheol, Gehenna, and Hel come to mean what we think of Hell today?

Brilliant as always. Love Megan’s hair. Few tips: sign up link should be in the description. You’d get more sign ups. Can we have the catch up at the end not the start, people want to get into the content and the topic they have clicked for, not 5 mins of personal stuff. Can we lose the annoying intersections with the voiceover? You should check the skip data on these sections. Regulars know what the sections are and they are pretentious to new listeners. Doesn’t add anything and requires the listener actively skip . Just some pointers to improve what is already an incredible show and absolute gift of free knowledge to the world.

The more I learn about mysticism, the less able I am to do even accept arguments like "he said I AM" as implying he thought he was God literally, even from a purely Christian perspective and not asking questions about historical truth, I don't buy at all that's the most obvious or the simplest explanation and interpretation of such "evidence". There's so many other people in history who said similar things but weren't claiming to be the savior of all mankind, some controversial Islamic Sufi mystics for example.

Rabbi Akiva declared Simon bar Kokhba the Meshiach. Not everyone agreed but, generally, Simon was the type of person that fit the messianic expectations of many.

Long time fan and follower here. I really liked the change to Barts voice or microphone. My only other audio nerd complaint would be hopes that your channel could look into "De-esser" software - S's are very sharp and dang near take my head off - at least when listening on headphones or ear pods. My ears will thank you! Nonetheless - love the content - keep up the great work!

Wonderful exposition

Megan’s scholarship and style are life goals. Bart is cool, too ;) Love this podcast

Serious question. How does Megan's hair stay so perfect after so many color changes?

Your opening comments explain why I decided to come watch a podcast or two before I started today :)

Oooo love the new hair!!!!

Hey bart great video, it could be worth considering reconfiguring your microphone as it makes your voice sound quite low . Thanks for all your great videos ❤

Take a shot for everytime you hear "Messiah". (Please don't actually do this.)

Very interesting and informative 😮🤔

That dye job is LEGIT, excellent shading

Rabbi Tovia Singer has many excellent discussions on this topic

Video starts about 5 minutes in.

Megan, I LOVE your hair!!

I like Bart's motto. I always say "If you want something done, look for someone who is already busy". This is what I want to be. That busy person

The only person that should have a discussion / debate with Dr Erhman about Quran / Bible is Dr Ali Ataie. He is as knowledgeable and proficient in religions and languages of antiquity as Dr Erhman, if not more. I know Dr Erhman is starting a series on Quran - I would strongly suggest Dr Ataie as a interlocutor

Thank you for sharing your incredible knowledge with us ❤Instead of going to my church’s bible classes for 8+ years, I could have learned soooo much more by just listening to a few of your podcasts.

Bart compared the anointing of a Jewish King to the swearing in of a US President. As those who watched the Coronation of King Charles III will know, British monarchs are themselves actually anointed with holy oil as part of their coronation ceremony, in direct imitation.

Very true, enjoyment means having focus of the energy which means that the best way to finish quiker is to enjoy more....

I love Megan’s look. Her hair is awesome. The glasses go well with it too.

Mind blowing episode,thank you Dr. Ehrman

I am so depressed. I'll try enjoy stuff more

Great information!!

I’ve thought for a very long time that the last words Mark puts in Jesus’ mouth are likely historically accurate. They sound like the cry of someone whose absolute expectation that God would intervene is shattered by the reality that he’s about to die and God is no where to be found. I really liked this talk. It brought me back to all the research I did 40 years ago and arrived at all these conclusions. All spurred by the Professor teaching socialist theory, who argued Jesus wasn’t an historical figure. He was so pompous and couldn’t entertain any ideas that contradicted his own.

Best hair coloring so far, Megan! Miraculous!

Megan Lewis has the most amazing glasses.

I feel like the closest thing we have to a time machine is Bart Ehrman

I can't remember what I did yesterday but I was in a hurry to do it. I liked that.

great podcast, so interesting

It's funny that people think the expectation of a Messiah was supposed to be someone who dies for people's sins because even if you just read the gospels (especially Mark) they tell you that's not what people (even the twelve disciples) expected.

In Isaiah, the messiah is supposed to bring about peace love and understanding for everyone on earth.

Bart should watch the “Heaven’s Gate” documentary. It’s really interesting watching people in a cult be completely convinced of something, then having a key figure die and disrupt that belief system, only to watch them not wake up from their delusion but rather reinterpret their belief system in light of this new obstacle. It’s exactly what imagine the disciple of jesus did. They had a strong belief system about him being the messiah, he died, and then had to find way to deal with that conflict by reinterpretation.

I would be interested in Bart's reaction to near death experiencers who return to life and say they saw Jesus and spoke with him - there's a lot of youtube talks by such people. I don't know if that's of interest at all, but I figure, the power of the human mind is so strong, and collectively the brain power of humankind is even stronger, that it is able to bring to "life" a figure that doesn't otherwise exist on its own. There's been cases of groups of people coming together and meditating in a way that manifests in an actual spirit that takes on an identity, however briefly. Kind of interesting.

It really makes you ponder the hundreds (thousands) of messianic claimants throughout the deuterocanonical period.

37:05 anyone else had to think about Tom Lehrer's 'I got it from Agnes? No? Just me?

Love the slow down message

Megan is a cool gal. People whose hair are different colors have an OUTSTANDING PERSONALITY.

Would Jesus have believed the immaculate conception/birth narratives found in Matthew and Luke?

40:00 Greek Roman traditions, Soul origin story, Plato 42:30 Origins of Hell word, burial

Thank you for the important work that you do.

I loved the video aaand... the new voice of Bart, I guess is because of the microphone. 💭 🤔

Bart got him a new mic.

Mr Ehrman, which Nils Dahl book are you referring to between 10:40 and 12:24? Please and Thank You.

As I said it in my book "King & High Priest", both, the King and the High Priest were anointed: The King: 1 Samuel 16:13 “Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers. And the Spirit of the LORD rushed upon David from that day forward.” The High Priest: Exodus 30:30 “And you shall anoint Aaron and his sons, and consecrate them, that they may minister to Me as priests.” And Yeshua was a descendant of both, King David and Aaron (being a cousin of John the Baptist who's mom and dad were both direct descendants of Aaron the High Priest) the High Priest. Therefore, He was and is the real Messiah!

Is it just me, or does Bart sound weird? His voice just sounds like, deeper.

The more I learn about the actual history, or historiography, of Christianity, and how people created it over time using a few facts and a lot of projection, reinterpretation of scripture, and good old myth, the more it sounds like the whole "Paul is dead" thing. It's obviously on a very tiny scale, but it's similar somehow - sparked by an obscure DJ in the states, Beatles fans went through searching through every song, backwards and forwards, every image, every word, and wove a rather loony narrative that to this day some people still believe. Interesting!

I would find it interesting to hear Bart Ehrmans view on the essenes and their idea of two messiah, as I understand it on priestly and one royal. Is that not exactly the role of John the baptist and Jesus?

I"m stealing Doctor Ehrman's motto for the year. That's totally awesome. Also, I'll pile on in my admiration of Megan's awesome hair color. What would you call that? Magenta, maybe? Or perhaps it's closer to fuchsia.

Very interesting interview thanks and I've heard/read Bart say similar things before but I would have liked it if he'd given more detail on how we end up with the gospels having JC referring to himself as the Son of Man on many occasions. Did he never say any of those phrases? Or did he say some of them but in those cases he actually said "I/me" or "Son of God" instead? Is it likely that a 1st century Jewish carpenter's son, even one who thought he would become king, would refer to himself in the third person, or was that only Greco-Roman practice?

I was waiting eagerly for a discussion of the supposedly controversial description of Cyrus (II, the Great) as "Messiah" in Isaiah 45:1, but I either missed it or it didn't come. Seems like it would have been very useful for illustrating the expectations of a Messiah in the exilic period and afterwards...whether or not the passage or the mention of Cyrus is original. Also, I don't know if it has been done already, but a comparative reading of the calling of Cyrus and the Cyrus cylinder seems like it might be an interesting pursuit: One thing in particular that struck me immediately was the "taking of the hand", by Yahweh in Isaiah and by Marduk in the Cyrus Cylinder. Another thing that came to mind was the various descriptions of Zerubbabel, where a Messianic function seems to be hinted at, but with some reservation, although perhaps I am letting the image of God wearing Zerubbabel as a signet ring (which does not seem to be an enthusiastic endorsement) influence my interpretation. My impression is that there was a strong desire at the time for some sort of home-grown Messiah/King, but that the power of the Achaemenid rulers at the time made that seem unlikely. Sorry for the ignorance inherent in all of these statements, just quick reactions to an interesting topic.

Recently, in the Bible study in which I participate, I startled the group by noting that British monarchs are anointed with oil as part of the coronation. So, by rights, they are christs. It is perhaps a good thing that US presidents are not anointed.

Anointed one. The alligator god in ancient Egypt

I am most likely off for the 30th, this is gonna be awesome!

Though in the early days they still thought the Kingdom was coming soon. The Messiah would still rule the coming Kingdom, he would now just be doing it after his death, returning when God or the angels came in power to overthrow the enemies and establish the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. It was a gradual slide from that to an afterlife in heaven, so the change in the meaning of Messiah wasn't as quick as it might seem at first.

I like how a cult with a failed messiah, doubles down, like all good cults do, and refuses to admit they were wrong. Then they just assume that must be part of the plan, and the Bart refers to it as an “innovation.” That’s a very nice way of describing what actually happened.

A divine figure that descends to the underworld, conquers, and returns and promises his/ her believers a reward in the afterlife predates Christianity in the mystery cults of Isis and Inanna. Mithraism is similar also.

Supposedly (according to NT) even at his trial he was scorned as INRI and has this posted on his cross. This Rex Judaeae would be in line with the Hebraic concept of the Messiah.

I think the Shure SM7B is an improvement.

Suggestion for an episode theme: What are the good things Jesus said or is attributed with saying, and what are the really dodgy ones?

44:20 mark... Ehrman admits Quirinius did a census (mentioned in Luke) but then says it wasn't empire wide. Hank Hanegraaff wrote in the article, "Are Matthew and Luke Reliable Concerning Christ’s Birth in Bethlehem": "Furthermore, dogmatic assertions by John Dominic Crossan, Robert Funk, Bart Ehrman, and other fundamentalist scholars that there is no record outside of the Gospels that emperor Caesar Augustus ordered a worldwide taxation are also patently false. In truth, Caesar Augustus was famous for his census-taking - so famous, in fact, that credible historians do not even debate the issue. The Jewish historian Josephus, for example, refers to a Roman taxation of AD 6, which likely took a lengthy period to complete. It no doubt began with Caesar Augustus around 5 BC and was completed a decade later. Luke notes that the census was completed when Quirinius was governor of Syria. As noted by historian Paul Maier during a live Bible Answer Man broadcast, “The Romans took 40 years to get a census done in Gaul. For a province 1,500 miles away from Rome in Palestine to take a decade is pretty quick. And since that census would finally come in under Quirinius’s administration, it would be called correctly by Luke his census.” Given Luke’s impeccable credentials as a historian, it would be far more circumspect to give him the benefit of the doubt. One need only remember the experience of the brilliant archaeologist Sir William Ramsay, who set out to disprove Luke’s historical reliability. Through his painstaking Mediterranean archaeological trips, he discovered that, one after the other, the historical allusions of Luke proved accurate. If, as Ramsay points out, Luke does not err in referencing a plethora of countries, cities, and islands, there is no reason to doubt him concerning this census.The common contention that men were taxed where they lived and women didn’t count is also spurious. Maier cites a first-century Roman census in Egypt, in which taxpayers living elsewhere were ordered to return to their homelands for registration. Moreover, a Roman census from Bacchius, Egypt, dated AD 119, historically documents that women and children were registered by their husbands or fathers."

Common Bart get some crazy glasses.

A pink wig might work. Oh, give it a try, Bart.

Jesus didn’t think he was the Messiah, HE KNEW! On one occasion, a woman said to him: “I know that Messiah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one comes, he will declare all things to us openly.” Jesus said to her: “I AM HE, the one speaking to you.” (John 4:25,26) Messiah: a word derived from the Hebrew word for ‘anointed of anointed one.’ Christ is the equivalent derived from the Greek. (Daniel 9:25; John 1:41)

Matthew 16:15-19 New King James Version 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

42:45 Gahana is a word also used for hell in the Quran, where it's pronounced Jahannam

If necessary, let everything else slip to be there for the kids.

My answer, before listening: Yes, he did!

It’s important to not put a lot of trust in Iron Age stories from people that heard voices in their head.

Oh how I love your hair

Why do these scholars and rabbis ignore Isaiah 48 where the people of Israel are directly addressed? There he calls them ‘the house of Jacob, who are called Israel’ ? Remember the only person who received that name was Jacob himself. The prophecy specifically avoids calling them Israel in that passage. So the suffering servant is an individual like Jacob or the reincarnation of Jacob, not all Israel. Now you don’t have to make poetic excuses for servant being singular in all those passages. Read it again. Jacob is also the servant. It’s the same individual who reincarnates and like he was shown in his vision of ascending and descending messengers. And that was Jacob’s future. So Isa 53 is about the prophets who brought a report and whom the arm of the lord was revealed. Not just Jesus. When he returns, he will suffer everything written again except he will have children and live a long life. He could be a modern day Palestinian based on that description in Isa 53.

Jesus said not to tell anyone he was the Messiah in Matthew, Mark and Luke.

The historical Jesus' delusions don't matter. It's like talking about whether the Roman Emperor Caligula really believed he was a god. What does matter are the delusions Christians in the here and now hold about Jesus, like the belief that he's the ruler and the judge of the dead in the afterlife.

Lk.14:25-26. Now large crowds were accompanying Jesus, and turning to them he said, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother, and wife and children, and brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." Mt.10:36-38."a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me." IT APPEARS that Matthew modified and softened Luke's verse (as have many modern English translations of Luke's verse). For me this could mean that Matthew did have a copy of Luke as well as Mark to compose his own narrative.

Did Sherlock Holmes think he was a detective?

Bart ehrman is a great world biblical scholar

Thx👍

Messianic expectations amongst Jews in Second Temple Judaism were manifold. Evidence from the Dead Sea Scrolls likely indicates the expectation of two messiahs, for example. Furthermore, the association of Isaiah's suffering servant with religious leaders is also indicated in the scrolls and elsewhere.

Megan ❤ your hair.

I do not know why I tripped over this question the other day "Did Jesus Think He Was King Of The Jews" ? While the Messiah question is interesting enough, the "King of the Jews" question is the one the Gospels picked up - at least in the sense that they had Pilate run off with that meme ...

Thank you.

So you're saying that Stryper named their band in vain?

My teacher Richard Rohrbaugh reminds us that New Testament scholars parrot the maxim that the answers we arrive at are determined by the questions we ask. Sadly few such historical Jesns researchers like our brother Bart D. Ehrman (who is brilliant and kind) that ethnocentric results frequently are the result of questions that are themselves rooted in ethnocentric bias. Take the central question in historical Jesus research, discussed above: the so-called messianic self-consciousness of Jesus. Libraries are filled with studies on this. It is a divisive issue! But tragically, almost none of the produced literature covers the following: 1) Is the question itself even appropriate? 2) Does the question predetermine a range of answers that are peculiarly Western in character and, therefore, inevitably ethnocentric? You know what happens if both 1) and 2) are true? Then a considerable sample of the Western scholarly effort to understand who Jesus was teeters on being simply invalid at the premise level. Did Jesus have a definite view of himSELF? "OF COURSE!" comes the almost unanimous chorus of Western scholars! We can take that for granted! 𝑬𝒙𝒂𝒄𝒕𝒍𝒚 𝒘𝒉𝒐 𝒅𝒊𝒅 𝑱𝒆𝒔𝒖𝒔 𝒕𝒉𝒊𝒏𝒌 𝒉𝒆 𝒘𝒂𝒔? 𝑾𝒂𝒔 𝑱𝒆𝒔𝒖𝒔 𝒂𝒄𝒕𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒐𝒖𝒕 𝒂𝒏 𝒊𝒅𝒆𝒏𝒕𝒊𝒕𝒚 𝒐𝒇 𝒉𝒊𝒔 𝒐𝒘𝒏 𝒄𝒉𝒐𝒐𝒔𝒊𝒏𝒈? 𝑫𝒊𝒅 𝑱𝒆𝒔𝒖𝒔 𝒉𝒂𝒗𝒆 𝒂 𝒄𝒐𝒏𝒔𝒄𝒊𝒐𝒖𝒔 𝒂𝒈𝒆𝒏𝒅𝒂 𝒐𝒇 𝒉𝒊𝒔 𝒐𝒘𝒏? 𝑫𝒊𝒅 𝒉𝒊𝒔 𝑱𝒆𝒔𝒖𝒔' 𝒔𝒆𝒍𝒇-𝒖𝒏𝒅𝒆𝒓𝒔𝒕𝒂𝒏𝒅𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒅𝒆𝒇𝒊𝒏𝒆 𝒉𝒊𝒔 𝒎𝒊𝒔𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏? ^ All of these questions in 𝑩𝑶𝑳𝑫-𝑰𝑻𝑨𝑳𝑰𝑪𝑺 rest on an underlying assumption which has remained almost completely unexamined by most critical historical researchers of Jesus to this day. What if these scholars took seriously that the concept of "SELF" is actually a CULTURAL CONSTRUCT that differs markedly from one society to the next? What if they took seriously social scientists who have demonstrated that not everyone shares our Western understanding of what it is to be a human self? (See Stewart, Edward C., and Milton Bennett, 𝐴𝑚𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝐶𝑢𝑙𝑡𝑢𝑟𝑎𝑙 𝑃𝑎𝑡𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑛𝑠: 𝐴 𝐶𝑟𝑜𝑠𝑠𝐶𝑢𝑙𝑡𝑢𝑟𝑎𝑙 𝑃𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑝𝑒𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒, pp 129-147). Frankly, the discussion above is a virtual projection of the Western, individualistic, private self onto the Jesus of history. When looking for its plausibility in the collectivist society of antiquity, near zero is an accurate reading. Typically Western, Bart and the interviewer assume Western models about the nature of "self" -- thus, the outcome was determined before the inquiry even began! Whatever the AGRARIAN DYADIC-COLLECTIVISTIC PEASANT personality Jesus thought regarding "self," wouldn't he have been extremely careful about asserting anything either in public or in his in-group? All us Westerners/ized personalities just assume in our ethnocentrism that first-century Galilean Jesus HAD to have and ASSERT his "private self!" But that would have been seen by all as most shameful behavior. So, if Jesus was BIZARRE and ALIEN compared with everyone he knew (all ANTI-INTROSPECTIVE personalities) by indeed having a "private self" like us Western individualists have, neither his followers, his in-group, the public, nor you and I would have heard about it during his lifetime. Bottom line -- question about Jesus' "private self" is inappropriate. Why? Not only because it is unanswerable! It is inappropriate Bart Ehrman because it is culturally ethnocentric. Your question "Did Jesus know that he was the messiah?" ("What did Jesus think of himSELF?") is a question only a Westerner would ask! How about some LEGITIMATE inquiries? What did Jesus have to do with groups? In what group was Jesus embedded? What was their opinion of him? In what way did he embody and defend their goals? If he detached himself from his biological family, by what means did he reestablish a collectivist identity? THESE are LEGITIMATE questions because they presume the collectivist understanding of human beings that is the only one appropriate for understanding the historical Jesus. Again Rohrbaugh reminds us, the questions we ask determine the answers we get. How CRUCIALLY important it is to recognize that, in seeking the person of Jesus, we have been asking the WRONG KIND of questions! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-B3VztTzftaA.html

Sure. Except that the apostles weren't out teaching Jesus and resurrection. They were calling for greater adherence to Mosaic Law, which is what the message had been since people like the Baptist started God's Way, of which the Nazarene group was a part.

If I'm not correct and I'm ok with that. Past and present Jews don't believe Jesus was the Messiah because the Messiah was to be a mighty warrior to save the Jewish people and set them free. Jesus was definitely not a mighty warrior in any type, way or form.

That’s the best explanation for the meaning of those terms I’ve seen. Bart is the best teacher.

Jesus did not think he was the Messiah, he knew he was the Messiah, as when Peter responds, you are the Christ, the son of the living God. And also he told the samaritan woman in John 4;24-26, “ I am he” when she was saying that the Messiah was coming and teaching them everything.

I’ve always felt stupid with one thing about the resurrection, please feel free to comment anyone that has an answe. It’s always been said Jesus resurrected on the third day (to fullfill the scriptures and so on). He was crucified on friday afternoon and rose sunday morning. That’s not even 2 days. What the hell is going on? Even if we say “jews counted different because the day starts with the last ray of sun. Yeah, he still rose on the second day. Anybody?