WWE is popular because it’s stories. Star Wars isn’t popular *because* it’s space battles, but because it tells a compelling story. Similarly WWE uses wrestling to tell stories. When it’s bad it’s because there’s no story to grab hold of and invest it.
@@cairomiravity that peoples quality has gone down the drain? instead of booing for a change they get exited over the most generic shit and then next day they change their tune again...and again and again.. wwe fans are like a lady on her period, they dont know what the fuck they want so they get all and becomes a shit fest of the same but more pussy.....ohhh no he got cut.....lets wait a sec and fix him cause you know blood.
@@carbon.the.christ5626bloodline and judgment day. That just 2 but there’s been way more. And the bloodline story is literally the greatest storyline ever. So I’m missing your point.
I understand when you are a little kid because it’s just like another bad show made for you. When you grow up and still watch wwe you have to ask yourself the right question
@@3loirdsa277 I haven’t even watched wrestling since the early 2000s when I was a child. It’s just hilarious how he switches back and fourth his word means nothing at this point even his lilgroupie followers recognize this
@3loirdsa277 It's not just wrestling. Joe flip-flops positions based on who he has on, but since his Spotify deal/covid he's started leaning more into the alt-right think-free types.
I wrestled in middle & high school & I loved going out & competing but I hated watching everyone else do it because it can be so boring. That's one reason pro wrestling became predetermined because people got bored with it.
Anyone who says I played a sport but hated watching it didn't love their sport because no real wrester would ever say that. High-level amateur wrestling is beautiful
My dad took me to MSG to see Hogan in the 80s and I loved it cuz I thought these guys were really trying to kill each other. Now I know it’s a work and I ask myself “How do they not kill each other every match?”. I still love it because these dudes to have to NOT paralyze each other and that seems harder to me with the stunts they’re pulling.
It's definitely an under appreciated profession. they're basically stuntmen but in an entertainment setting. All the risks associated with stunt work in TV shows and Movies are the same here, it's amazing how they don't injure themselves more frequently
It’s easy to understand why amateur wrestling isn’t mainstream. Its boring. Tennis is more exciting because it has more action compared to amateur wrestling. Two people hitting fast spikes while moving left to right whereas you have two people laying down grabbing each other. That’s the reason why the wnba for example struggles compared to the nba. Even though it’s the same sport, the nba is just more exciting because it has more action in terms of speed/dunks.
There’s a lot more going on in wrestling, but I’d say the biggest reason is it takes a bit to really get a feel for what’s happening in wrestling. Anyone can turn on tennis and see he hit ball now he hit ball oh he hit hard. Same thing with soccer, anyone can turn it on, kick ball into goal. Wrestling has point systems, multiple ways to win, penalty points, etc. that requires you to watch a bit before understanding and a lot of people don’t care enough to put it in that time which is fair.
@@limitedbom2206 Combat sports fans,especially mma fans are a lot more knowledgeable now about amateur wrestling than they were even 10 yrs ago and given the chance would probably watch it.
@@iandixon9675 I still think wrestling is more niche. I'm taking about completely casual viewers, don't watch mma or combat sports. Like someone who only watches soccer and basketball probably won't watch wrestling.
@jacobchitwood4365 guess you're not a sports guy or like alot of combat sports people don't like most sports. Soccer is my favourite sport but I like and watch most sports. I don't think there's a sport out there I couldn't enjoy after getting to understand it
Japan's pro wrestling as we know it today took its start after WWII. Wrestler promoter Bobby Bruns was instrumental in helping to set things up, and introducing the Japanese fans to people like Mike & Ben Sharpe and, later, Lou Thesz. The Thesz/Rikidozan match in October 1957 was watched by over 85% of all TV sets in Japan; no-one has ever had a higher rating for their matches. They set TV sets up on poles in the middle of the street so people could watch. Absolutely wild. A few years later, RIkidozan/The Destroyer drew an 65% share, when there were many more TV sets in the country. Freddie Blassie, Bobo Brazil, Billy Robinson, Karl Gotch and a few other North American stars did big BIG business there through the 60s and into the late 80s. What grew there eventually evolved into what you see today, but it's early years in the late 40s and early 50s, it was mostly indistinguishable from what fans would have seen in San Francisco or Chicago or even New York.
When I saw The Rock was on JRE, I was excited to listen. About an hour in, and I can’t take it anymore. Its like a 2.5 hour positive affirmation podcast. I am all for positive, don’t get me wrong. But I just feel like having The Rock on a podcast is so hard, because he is very protective of his image and it is no fun.
Never been to a wrestling event before but I did see some NXT wrestling that was on at download festival one year in a tent. Hundreds of metal heads all watching holding a beer watching the heels talk smack about metal heads and get people all pumped up. Was so entertaining. Absolutely loved it.
This is definitely an interesting conversation unlike what Chael wants you to believe. There doesn’t have to be drama in everything for it to be or feel real. Enjoyed
I think his point was more that there was a spot for wrestling, but pro wrestling took the spot because it was more exciting. Even knowing that pro is predetermined, it's still more exciting to the masses than legit wrestling, so it will never get the "wrestling" spot in sports that pro wrestling took.
Wrestling (wwe,wcw,aew), free style wrestling , Greco Roman wrestling , sambo, Brazilian jui jitsu all comes from catch wrestling or influenced by catch wrestling techniques (Mitsuyo Maeda who taught the Gracie family had a catch wrestling background along with other grappling martial arts). Wrestling is shown on cave drawings 15-20,000 years ago and Sumerians had it as an official sport over 5,000 years ago influencing Europe and Asian grappling martial arts. My grandfather was an actual world champion wrestler at the end of the 30s beginning of the 40s. He beat the world champion (who was in the army) in a competition and WW2 started and he was in the marines. Started out as a PVT machine gunner, battlefield promoted to officer (full mustang not a shave tail) and retired as a Col. during Vietnam (turning down being a general).
@@Doriamo yeah he is. He lifted me up off my feet in a one a one armed hug when I went to go see my grandparents several years ago. He was in his mid seventies then. He had a heart attack in his sixties and had walked out to the emergency helicopter that came down in his ranch when his heart had stopped several minutes before. Scared the emergency people cause his eyes had turned black and his skin was also dark purple from the blood not pumping and had stayed conscious by sheer force of will. Collapsed right onto the gurney. Thought his heart attack was just some heart burn at first and realized after a while it wasn’t and had to call emergency services. They own a cattle ranch so the helicopter was what they use for an ambulance out there. He had me raise a calf to a cow and slaughter it (humanely, he’d beat down anyone who mistreated an animal) to teach me to appreciate the life given for my food. Also since they were kids of the depression eating turnips to survive to also appreciate what we have too.
The book fall guys written in the 1930s details how wrestling changed from a legit sport to a work. It details the rise of the goldust trio and wrestlers such as Ed the strangler Lewis. It's a fascinating read and everything since has been a rehash of something that occurred previous, including double crosses, screw jobs, angles, and turns. It's a great glimpse not only into wrestling but promotion, business and capitalism in this country. If you get the wrestling business you can understand politics, religion, business and capitalism. I'd put this up with Pimp by iceburg slim as capitalist manifestos
The Trio was composed of the era's dominant World Heavyweight Champion Ed "Strangler" Lewis and his manager Billy Sandow, as well as fellow wrestler and creative visionary Joseph "Toots" Mondt, the promoter.... Together they created the concept of angles, programs, scripted matches, etc
Interesting choice by The Rock to go onto this platform. If I'm honest, I expected him to have an interview on The Broken Skull Sessions with Stone Cold. That would have been awesome. Outside of the fact that Joe Rogan is a much bigger podcast platform, I've seen this guy make fun of wrestling countless times.
@@LUKERs1196 Stone cold doesn't give a shit about what people think and he can be very very real. But the rock has to be careful with so many trolls and haters watching every word he says.But yes stone cold will be more entertaining to watch for sure
I agree with the rock, I used to do school safety and I had to be security for after school, where the wrestling team either practice or had competitions, and my god it was boring, there was a few exciting take downs every once in a blue, but for the most party both dudes are scrabbling on the ground, imaging watching mma and they just rolling around on the ground the whole time
@@miketurner1908 what's crazy is that's the BEST way to win a fight without taking to much damage, any mma fighter should try to win like that just to take the toll off his/her body.. look at khabib.... 9 times outta 10 a fight ends up on the ground
@@miketurner1908wasn't that how mma was in the 90s when ufc or whatever it was called back then. I remember seeing some mma fights in tge 90s and it nothing but rolling on the ground. It seemed like they were in the ground for hours just doing nothing. I got bored with that stuff and changed the channel. I see now it's changed alot
Most people have never been in a true real fight in there life more than once or twice. So they don't understand what a real fight looks like they think it's supposed to look like some old Chinese movie.
I wrestled in middle and high school, while yes it is one of the hardest sports out there, it's also one of the most boring to watch. It was never going to catch on with mainstream sports because there's no appeal to it to a "casual" sports fan. Why do you think UFC fans start booing when they're just rolling around grappling? They'd rather see take downs, submissions, punches, kicks etc.
this will hurt.... but American wrestling, which may or may not have helped evolve Japanese wrestling, came out of England. Catch, folk style, carnival as various counties in England had their own wrestling named after them.
I mean in theory wrestling/grappling at its most basic can be traced back to the Romans and evolved from there. As England is a much much older country in comparison to the US it's fair to say that catch wrestling/pro wrestling more than likely came first in England especially when you consider that Kings and Queens would have catch wrestling as entertainment going back to the medieval times. The role in which England played in the evolution of pro wrestling can certainly be looked at when you consider the talent that came out of Wigan and the Greater Manchester area and the Snake Pit...Billy Riley and Billy Robinson down to the Dynamite Kid all played a big hand in helping evolve pro wrestling to where it is today.
I played basketball in highschool and one year i trained with the wrestling team for just over a month pre basketball season. I'll just say this. i was in the best shape out of everybody in bball that yr lol. that shit was INSANE
My Mom used to photograph Wrestlers during Stampede Wrestling in Calgary. This was in the late 70s early 80s . I used to play with the guys while they waited to be photographed.
Joe should get William Regal on if he wants to hear some amazing pro wrestling stories and how British pro wrestling used to and to some extent still does differ from American pro wrestling. An outstanding wrestler in his own right and I think he might find it fascinating although I don't know how many casual listeners would be interested. I am biased being English myself but Regal is a great listen. He also actually used to work as a wrestler in the carnivals in Blackpool, you can find clips of him on RU-vid doing it.
@@ToumapassarZEZOCAdo you mean " I don't think " ... If so , fair enough 🤷🏻♂️, but that still don't change the fact that actual wrestling fans know full well who regal is , back to bed now please 💤
I think wwe should force it a rule to actually wrestle for the first minute or so. Then go into the spectacle of it .then maybe when both get tired go back to wrestling again . Maybe sometimes get a winner that way. And other ways do the finisher.
Frank Gotch, Martin Burns, Ad Santel, George Hackenschmidt, Jim Londos, Lou Thesz, Karl Gotch, Inoki, Billy Robinson & many many more gave birth to REAL pro wrestling/scientific wrestling. Alot represented chain wrestling meaning a takedown followed by a submission into a counter, escape & back into a submission. These guys were the real deal & the fans loved it & when Gotch vs Hackenschmidt took place in 1911 over 35,000 people attended. There were no gimmicks, kayfabes, high spots or build ups. It was technique after technqiue exchage which kept the fans on their toes to see who would get caught & give. These guys along with others were the best hookers, rippers & shooters. Stu Hart was considered is legendary shooter, thats why Bret Hart implemented a Catch Wrestling style. Notice his chain wrestling against Shawn Michaels in the Iron Man Match at Wrestlemania. That's how pro wrestling should be. UWFI japan style with Akira Maeda, Fujiwara, Gary Albright, that was exciting pro wrestling.
Funny how they’re talking about Mr. Johnson being pushed to smile when he was in wrestling. Now he’s a movie star and in every movie he’s in. They focus multiple times on his smile…..
People always say “if you knew how hard wrestling is you’d find it more entertaining because you understand more what the competitors are trying to do”, that’s not the case in my opinion. People don’t just enjoy sports because they know they’re hard to do, they enjoy it because of either the culture that surrounds the sport (like fans of teams in football/soccer) or the risks that are involved like MMA or boxing where guys can get knocked out in any second. Wrestling doesn’t have either of those, sure you could argue a sport like tennis is the same however tennis is usually far more diverse internationally so there’s always a patriotism vibe to a lot of matches which makes it easier, but also the points are very quick, each rally in tennis usually only lasts a couple of seconds and then points and positions change and you can become invested into the story of what each player every time cause there’s always one player fighting back against the other. You don’t get that in wrestling, wrestling can be multiple minutes of two people laying on the floor, a lot of the time seemingly mostly trying to hold still to get their breath back, and literally the points they have stay exactly the same and unless you know all the rules (of which there’s far too many to count) then you’ll see points being awarded regularly for seemingly no obvious reason. That’s a hard thing to get invested in. You basically either need to be a very high level wrestler yourself just to appreciate all the effort that’s being made, or you have to have some kind of personal connection to the competitors so you’re automatically invested in them. Otherwise you’re just stuck 90% of the time watching two guys, from the same place, with barely anything to distinguish them, laying on the floor for a long time gaining points for some reasons you’re not fully sure of and you’ve gotta try and find some investment in that. Tough gig.
Wrestling does have a lot of risks, injuries, concussions and even death. And you are right that is why there are story lines where fans get to watch and relate to the situation for example The Rock saying back in the day JUST BRING IT! To adversity and you felt it or you have CM Punk and MJF saying FU to their boss because you don’t value me… those things get fans excited to a point that all of those feelings are met once they wrestle.
Learning a sport can definitely make you appreciate watching it. My friends brother was ranked top 5 in Florida high school. He visited his mom back east for summers. He needed to stay sharp so I offered to play with him if he taught me. I was basically the last resort guy if he couldn't find anyone. I hated tennis on tv but after learning it over 4 summers and the technique, angles, ways to put spin on the ball, positioning, how to play court, etc.. I suddenly found tennis matches really exciting because I knew what was going on and how incredibly hard it is. I also learned from a kid who became state champion and had to serve at about 40% power when I was at my best because he had such a nuke it was impossible for me to return. He starched adults that decades of experience. Those 4 years really taught me a appreciation for tennis.
In case anyone is wondering, REAL, COMPETITIVE wrestling was a sporting event that the general public did come to see. So what Joe says at 2:40 is just un-informed. He may be interested to learn more about it. The problem was the wrestling matches would last hours, because both guys had a real wrestling answer for any move put on them. Eventually people stopped going to see wrestling, because they’d sit for 3 hours watching two guys, they wouldn’t get home from their night out watching sports until after midnight. The wrestlers and promoters only started to “work” the results as a response to people’s interest and patience running out. Around the time of this change, the average audience age started to shift downwards
Amature wrestling crowds are the only sports crowds where alot of the time theres not alot of talking, or banter in the stands. ...everyone is focused and watching the match
It's not complicated to understand why real wrestling is not a spectator sport. It's the same reason Brazilian jiu-jitsu and the United States is not a spectator sport. People don't know what the fuck they're watching unless they have been involved in it. Karate, MMA, boxing... All these things people can understand when someone's getting their ass beaten. And grappling competitions, if you don't understand what you're watching then it just looks like two guys hugging. That's why freestyle and Greco wrestling never caught on as a spectator sport. And why BJJ in the United States is also not a big spectator sport.
They are talking about this like its the start of wrestling but werent they doing wrestling in ancient greece? Or are they just talking about how the wwe got started?
Rock was talking about the origins of Pro Wrestling. It started out as legit tough guy carnival shows. Eventually a promotor figured out he could get two guys to work a match to a predetermined finish and create long term investment from buyers -- that's where pro wrestling began. Pioneers of pro wrestling in America eventually went to Japan, which then evolved and formed its own legacy. Similar things happened in Mexico, and the UK already had a great base and could emulate what the others were doing on their own.
Joe , you better check your pro wrestling history. In the early 20th century, pro wrestling was considered to be a real professional sport , with George Hackenschmidth becoming its first world champion and international superstar who packing up houses wherever he went. His matches with Frank Gotch packed stadiums full of people , withe their match at Comiskey Park on september 4, 1911 bringing 25,000 people to the Park that day in Chicago, lLL. In the 1930's, Jim Londos was the most popular pro wrestler and one of the most popular pro athlete in the United States; and Lou Thesz was the first pro wrestler to become a major sports 📺 superstar in the 1950's. There's a lot of good reading material on the history of pro wrestling out there , so check it out, Joe.
I love how the rock refers to the 1920s and 30s as being hard times where people stretched a dollar… as if now, 100 years later, isn’t fucking terrible again.. fuck rich people
I think what everyone is missing is that in American sports there was a spot for a stand up one and a grappling one, both combat sports. Boxing took the stand up combat spot, but "pro" wrestling took the grappling combat spot. Pro wrestling was more exciting, so it was hard to watch real wrestling instead. Even now, knowing its predetermined, it's still more exciting and easier to understand than real wrestling. Real wrestling will never get the grappling spot in America becausd it's much easier to understand "why" people are fighting with story lines than it is to understsand technique. "This guy stole that guys girl so now they're gonna fight" is much easier than watching a real match and not knowing wtf is happening. Pro is way more accessible to the casual viewer as far as understanding what is happening.
I love Vince but he lived in a bubble. Guys like Rock can say what they like but the man didn't even know who Metallica were when he asked why they were paying such a huge licence fee for Enter Sandman. That's not a man with his finger on any pulse.
I'd say it's the rules and where the competition takes place and how it's scored, makes it boring. It's like the competitive aspect of wrestling was not designed for watching. It was just designed for competing. Like a game. Like it's physical, yet you can't even hit a guy. So it's not really intuitive at all. I get that same feeling when watching ufc, and one guy is touching the floor with his hands, so the other guy isn't hitting him in the head with the knee. So it takes away from the experience. It's like when you play a game, and want to try to do something in it, but the devs didn't enable that. So the game is just shutting your every attempt down. And the only way I can imagine wrestling match being interesting is if it's one sided. One dude throwing another dude like a bag of potatoes. Like Randleman smacked Fedor and almost broke his neck. And then still lost to a sub. Or how Michael Chandler throws his opponents. Or how DC handled Henderson. That's fun, but also one sided. If you get 2 equals, then they just cancel eachother out. So you get nothing from it. You get 2 walls pushing against one another.
Wrestling is as famous as karate tournaments and taekwondo tournaments etc. boxing and MMA had an entertainment side and controversy side. That's why they are famous
JP wrestling started out with Rikidozan, he begged his boss in Sumo to send him to the US to learn pro wrestling, and then he came back and started the first japanese wrestling promo. JWA
I miss the good old wrestling Days.. Mr finkle doing Ring announcing, iconic voice.. wasn't nothing like it when your favorite wrestler wins a title and finkle says..." AND NEEEEEEW" Man u felt it .. Samantha is doing great today though. I miss Vince on commentary , Bobby heenan, gorilla monsoon.. and ik its more current but i also Miss jbl on commentary 😂
maybe not everyone understand wrestling point system? Pro wrestling, pin down for 3 seconds. boxing, KO them for 10 seconds. Sumo, Mongolian, Korean and couple other traditional wrestling, you either throw them to the ground, push them out of the ring or lift both of their feet off the ground that can be easily observed.
I don't see wrestling as a type of sport since the end is pre-determined. I view wrestling as a very dangerous and athletic form of live theater. You got a stage, you got characters, choreographed moves, and storylines with a live crowd and you only get one take. Best case scenario, they end up on botchamania and people chuckle and move on. Worst case scenario you accidentally drop the guy you're working with on his head and is now paralyzed for the rest of his life.
They tried it with Real Pro Wrestling. Its the wrestlers that stopped it form being successful. Wrestlers are the most stubborn people on earth and only the ones that walk away understand business.
I always thought that real wrestling would have been scrutinized like boxing with the local commissioners and it was a loophole so the promotion wouldn't be taxed as much, maybe Jim Cornett would be a better authority on the subject. 🤔👍✌
With all due respect to Joe Rogan. wrestling was done as a sport in the early 1900s in fact it was prevalent, a lot of elite would dress up in fancy suits to watch wrestling,. Frank Gotz fought a German Hackenschmidt in the Pavillion in Chicago it lasted more than 2 hours Gotz won the fight. That was the problem with wrestling in those days one match would last 3 hrs or 4 hrs until there was a definitive winner
Rogan notoriously hates wrestling and openly disrespects it unless there's a wrestler sitting in front of him, like, The Rock. Whom, he called a steroid user, by the way.
Amazing how Joe Rogan goes from taking any chance to bash on wrestling but put a wrestler in front of him and he turns into the biggest mark on the earth
