Did THE JOKER Kill Batman's Parents? | Watchtower Database 

IT WAS PLASTIC MAN, I'LL BE A SUNOVABITCH

I never liked the idea of Joker being the one who killed Bruce's parents. Seems too convenient.

What I love about that Joe Chill comic is the fact that he’s ironically scared of Bruce Wayne and not Batman

Uh... No, that would be Joe Chill. I know everything about Batman.

I always preferred that Joe Chill, or even just some random nameless guy, was responsible. Why? Well, Batman's vendetta against crime works a lot better when the crime itself is unremarkable. Just a couple of rich people taking a wrong turn in the wrong part of town and losing their lives to cruel, senseless violence. It makes Batman's war against crime a more eternal conflict, because he can never truly make up for what happened. Plus; you don't need the Joker to be the one who killed the Wayne's to make him Batman's greatest foe. Joker already has that title from all the other crazy stuff he's done; so why add an unnecessary complication on top?

Joker's real name is... Joe Kehr.

I mean, in the 89 film Batman doesn't recognize Jack Napier as the killer of his parents until he says "Ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?"

"And made him...brit-ish?" Actually, he's Irish. References aside, Mark Hamill gave him the accent of a very popular Irish-American radio host (his name eludes me), who was a second-generation American, but had some of the Dublin accent his parents had, as was often typical with Irish Americans back in the early 40s as they tended to spend time with other Irishmen at the time rather than mingle much with other Americans. Also, try to run the Joker's accent with not only the Dublin accent, but also with the Highland Scottish accent and the West Country accent: You'll find some similarities. Perhaps his likely often-absent father was Scottish? Assuming that Napier has anything in common with the Joker's real name, it's a Scottish name. Perhaps the Joker's father is from Scotland or England, but his mother, who was presumably more present in his life, was Irish, and that's why his peculiar and varied accent leans more towards north Dublin.

Joker put it best in The Killing Joke "if I'm gonna have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice". Personally I like Joker having no origin given and the Wayne's being killed by a random street thug. Another great vid watchtower

Mark Hamill's Joker accent is Mid-Atlantic / Transatlantic. Like 1920's - 1950's Hollywood and old Film Noir movies. It's not British, But it was "Golden Age" Hollywood's fake attempt at sounding classy by using a lot of upper-middle class South-East England phonetics.

I think I like batman vs joker being more of a clashing of ideologies. And I feel like once batman vs joker becomes something so personal, the relationship and dynamic is ruined.

Joe Chill was Jack Napier's uncle who raised him after the mysterious death of Jack's parents. Jack goes on to follow his Uncle into a life of crime.

What about the fact that the Batman Beyond tie in comic, you have Joe Chill's grand nephew operating as Vigilante, and he says that his uncle killed 2 people 50 years ago?

In the original script for Mask of the Phantasm then titled "Masks", the photo of Napier with Valestra's gang was scanned into the Bat-Computer because half his face was obscured by shadow. The computer extrapolates the rest, bring up police fingerprints and "JACK NAPIER" appears on the screen making Bruce seethe: "Joker." All this leads to another flashback of Batman and Jack at the ACE Chemical Plant mixed with surreal Joker imagery. Later when Phantasm comes to Joker's hideout, he says: "Jack Napier, your angel of death awaits." Last but not least, during Andrea's flashback of coming home right as Napier is leaving, he speaks to her! We almost got to hear Hamill's pre-Joker voice. Alas, all this was changed. Seems some people on staff wanted to fully embrace a clear Joker origin culled from Batman '89 and others didn't. Personally, they should have stuck with the original script's treatment of the character.

I like the Todd Phillip’s Joker film that creates a scenario where the Joker indirectly leads to the Death of the Wayne’s. It adds to his whole agent of chaos deal.

I wonder if the name the Valestra inspired the name Valeska for Jerome/Jeremiah in Gotham?

You COULD interpret that Batman1989 scene as Bruce not flashing back to the scene as it happened, but actually mentally projecting his current enemy into that scene. What if he does that with every enemy? "I played this city like a harp from hell"

Joker doesn't have a British accent it's supposed to be a mid Atlantic accent according to Mark Hamill

I always felt it was just a random thug in the animated continuity. I feel that Batman never finds out who he is. This would explain the lack of a Joe Chill story like DC did pre crisis with the legend of the Batman story. There was however a great adaptation of said story in Brave and the Bold.

Oh and can you please go into those "Batman Adventures" comics please? I really want to know about when they happened, if they're canon or not and whatnot. There's so many of them too!

Alfred killed the Wayne’s Confirmed

as a point of interest, i figured out the implied true identity of the absolute original Joker from the comics: it's Alfred Stryker from the very first Batman story, "The Case of the Chemical Syndicate". this is the story that serves as the basis for all the various Joker origins where he was thrown into a vat of chemicals by Batman, and when they rebooted everything with the New 52, they restarted Batman's story with a remake of "Chemical Syndicate" and iirc explicitly showed Stryker climbing out of the chemicals as the Joker

I personally think that it was big mistake in the history of DC in general to give Batman's parent's killer a name to begin with. They should have made his identity a mystery that would have haunted The Dark Knight for all time and fuel many fan theories to come. They should also always keep The Joker's real identity a mystery too as it makes him that more terrifiying

The animated series still made Joker the creator of Batman. When Joker murdered Carl Beaumont, he forced Carl's daughter, Andrea to call off her engagement to Bruce thereby destroying any chance Bruce had to find happiness. This left him with only one choice: Dress up as a giant bat and fight criminals every night but this also caused Andrea to become the Phantasm.

"When you were in Kindergarten, the 5th graders looks like mid-30s" How true

As far as I know Bruce has photographic memory. Had it been Jack Napier he would've most probably recognised him pre-joker in mask of the phantasm. Also, if someone you've seen just a couple of times gets chark white skin, green hair and a big permanent smile it would be hard to recognize them, even with photographic memory

The Joker's real name was established two seasons before Mask of the Phantasm premiered. One is expected to know this when they see him in the flashbacks and photo. Jack Napier's voice would probably sound like Mark Hamill's normal speaking tone if not a bit ominous. The only reason "Beware the Creeper" retconned his name as just an alias is because the revamped 4th season wanted to remove some of the Burton elements in favor of traditions from the comics. Here's a theory: Jack started using aliases, as criminals often do, and let the idea that even his real name is one of them. A joke on everyone!

I like to think Bruce has mentally blocked the identity of his parents' killer due to the shock. Perhaps meeting said killer will bring back his trauma if he acknowledges his face. The Batman acts as his 2nd identity protecting Bruce Wayne from the fear of meeting the killer, thus as Batman who doesn't know the identity can continue his services as a superhero.

This is getting out of hand now there are two potential wayne murderers?!

I just have one question and it's been bugging me for weeks! If Bruce Wayne's dad was a doctor then who was running Wayne industries? Was he doing both? Was it his wife? Was it somebody else but by some weird writers logic because it belong to the Wayne family Bruce just got to be the CEO?

This was my first visit. Good job on the Jack Napier/Joe Chill theory.

What if Pre-Joker was Joe Chills boss?! That would kinda make sense...

New Sun here, love the delivery of your content. I’ll make sure to check out more, thanks for the video!

We've seen Joker wear disguises. Convincing ones, even. It's possible the Waynes were a mob hit disguised as a mugging, with pre-Joker disguised as Joe Chill. As far as Alfred, well… have we ever seen him and Joker in the same room at the same time?

"Actually I'm Irish" says the Joker as he busts through the door. Also, what if Sal Valestra set up the Joker at Ace chemicals like in the 89 movie? Just food for thought.

I really like this theory with all the stuff about the yin and yang having them both created their own nemesises and each other with joker creating Batman and Batman creating the joker it would have just been perfect

It's not what you know, it's what you can prove in court.

I'm one of those #KeepJoker'sOriginASecret kind of guys. (Along with #KeepEpilogueASecret, of course.) And, while I'd like to separate Batman and Joker and have their relationship be linear (Batman 'birthed' Joker when he tossed him into chemicals without Jack killing Bruce's parents ), I got genuine chills just imaging how that scrapped episode would've been like. I played it in my head a few times already as I type this comment but, like, wow. Also, I'm neither Team Joe Chill or Team Joe Kurh(?). I'm Team Howard Utley!

Thank you for this video and this channel!!! I’ve been getting back into the DCAU because of DC universe, and you’re really helping me.

It was so in burtons Batman movie with my boy Keaton. “You ever dance with the devil in the pale moon light?”

Definitely team Joe Chill I like how the Burton movie handled it by making it Joker, but it was never about who killed Thomas and Martha, it's about what killed them: crime There is no good reason for their murder, so Bruce promises to stop the same thing that took his parents away from him

Team Joe Chill; it was a convoluted way of having Batman and the Joker be connected in Batman 1989, it was convoluted when it was revealed he killed Carl Beaumont (especially since we'd never really seen pre-Ace Chemical Joker until Mask of the Phantasm), and it feels convoluted here, especially when it depends entirely upon the World's Greatest Detective not recognizing him and the Joker never bringing it up (especially in Return of the Joker, where he finds out Bruce's identity) for the entirety of their relationship.

I've always felt it was better that the one who killed Thomas and Martha Wayne was Joe Chill or, much more preferably, an unknown assailant. Joker is too on the nose and perfectly staged. Batman, in my opinion, has 2 great motivators: Avenging the death of his parents, and making sure no one experiences the trauma he did. While there is a very good story to tell when the killer has a known identity, it does lessen the overarching scenario of batman approaching every criminal as if they could be the one that did it. That angst and brutal screen that Bruce sees the world in helps keep him interesting to me and drives the character forward just as much as wanting to make the world a better place.

How about the idea that was put in the recent Joker Movie, that the Joker incited events that lead to the Waynes being killed

I really like this theory but I just like to think he didn't kill the Wayne's. I really like his origins in the animated series. I also like to think the joker and batman are around the same age in the animated series

Joe chill doesn't even look like mask of Phantasm Jack Napier though. I would however want you to theorize how brainiac fused to darkseid reproduced considering Dwayne McDuffie said darkseid and him and lex were fused to source wall in jlu finale

Mark Hamill's performance as the joker is excellent for an animated series. But the greatest incarnation of the classic villain overall is none other than Heath Ledger's joker because that incarnation of the character is more imaginative and not confined to the limitations of television animation.

Thanks for publishing the video on my birthday, man I also missed the video.

3:03 omg that’s so true, older kids looked old af

I don't really care because I see the person that the Joker was before he was the Joker as a different person to who he is after he becomes the Joker.

That was real deep dig character history of "Mr. J" .... I didn't know so much about him before this day. Thank you so much James #watchtowerdatabase

“It could have been...Alfred!” DC Abridged Alfred: “Yer damn right ya stupid boy! Ahhahaha!”

Eh, I was never a fan of connecting Joker to the Wayne Murders like that. Joker is one of the only characters who can get away with being a total mystery in my opinion...or, at least, what appears to be a total mystery. I personally think it would be really cool if the backstories could all be pieced together into some form of cohesive background, instead of mindless lies; Joker's too smart to not realise that his inconstant history would come back to bite him eventually, so it would make sense for him to keep a record of what he's saying - whether or not it's his actual history, a complete fabrication he designed just to f*ck with Batman or somewhere between the two extremes is up to the writer I guess.

Video starts 0:00 thank me later.

I think the worst part about this is, if the Joker were the Killer, he'd either not care or laugh it off and say " What a hilarious joke!"... Just to piss off Bruce! Que the laugh Jack Napier! 13:18

On the subject of Bruce's memories, whenever people remember a thing the memory becomes a little bit more distorted. Batman relives this memory so many times it's probably rather different in his head than it was in the alley a few decades ago.

I think i found another cool comic book channel

Yea jokers my pal we go out for drinks on a Sunday night

love what you guys do, keep up the amazing work. I always thought that the batman and joker making each other thing felt too close nit. Batman is a guy who had a really bad day (parent's killed by Joe chill) and it sent him on the path that made him Batman. The joker is a guy who had a bad day (wife and unborn baby die, job goes sideways, ends up in a vat) and it sends him on the path that makes him the joker. I know other ppl have said it, but they are two different parts of a coin, two different ideologies that always clash. One making the other makes it tie up too nicely. And the script for the gun episode, maybe I missed it, but didn't Mr Rigel say that the joker bought the gun but he didnt specify that the Joker killed the Waynes. I know that's what the episode would have alluded to, but nothing concrete. And then, Mr Tim (the heavenly father, blessed be his name) said that it wouldnt line up. That being said, he also said he didn't want brainiac being part fo soop's origin and that was a really cool call so ya.... k, batman fanboy rant over hahaha

I feel like this was an episode at some point but perhaps I am just miss remembering the burton movie and an animated series episode.

Joke Chillker.

I Hate the name Jack Napier!, in spanish Napier (Naipe) sounds too much like "playing card". And yes, the joker is a playing card, not funny. I think all the origin stories of the Joker are true, we just haven't put them all together.

All this talk about joe chill reminds me of the batman BATB episode "chill of the night" which is honestly the best episode of the series

Bruh, you have a Great Channel!!

I think that the idea of Joker killing Bruce’s parents is bad because the idea of a random thug killing Bruce’s parents fuels Joker’s point about “one bad day”. Bruce and the Joker weren’t fated to be nemeses. Each of them had one bad day that shaped them into who they are.

Totally the joker, they had a whole script for it!!!

omg love ya! Love this topic

Awsome vid

5:02 AIRPLANE!!!!!!!

Joker is Also know as Jeremiah Valeska in Gotham.

Joker's real name is Josephi Krakawski. He's of Russian decent, but adopted Italian-American attributes from being raised in a predominate Italian American suburb. His parents were very poor and were often ostracized by the people around them, and one day little Joe has had enough of it and decides to just run away. He gets lost in an ally and some thugs find him and ask him if he wants to make a little money by going with them to a jewelry heist where he would sneak into the building using his small size to crawl in through an air vent and let them in from the inside. The heist is a success, the thugs shoot a few cops, Joe himself smacks a guard, and they get out of there with diamonds, full of adrenaline and howling in laughter. Joe gets paid more money in that one night than he has ever seen in his life, and the thugs offer him a place in the gang where he could pull more heists like the one he just did. Joe gladly accepts, never once remembering his parents, and decides he would be in charge of his destiny from that point onward.

The Batman Beyond comics for a time had a 'Vigilante' who was also from the Chill family. I know Beyond continuity is confusing and in any case it's even less important than BTAS comic continuity in precedence, but it seems to me that the different moving parts at DC assumed that Chill killed the Wayne parents in the DCAU as it was never conclusively decided otherwise.

I know his name its Arthur Fleck....no....ill leave then

He has a name First name: THE LAST NAME: JOKER duh 😅

About that script: in another episode (possibly from another version though) centering around the gun, it is shown that Batman has it in a display case in the batcave. The reason he kept it was 2 fold, a) it reminds him why he doesn't kill and b) in case he'd commit suïcide it would be with the same gun that took his parents' lives (at least in that version)

I like Joe Chill. As in 1930s, 1940s Joe Chill. The one who got killed by a bunch of thugs because he told everyone he’s the reason Batman exists because he killed Batman’s parents.

Thanks for this video! I really wasn't expecting a something like this, but I did enjoy it. Personally, I prefer for the killer of Bruce Wayne's parents to be Joe Chill rather than the Joker. Bruce's crusade against should be against crime in general rather than towards a specific person. Also, it's too convenient for me that the man who killed Bruce Wayne's parents also ends up being the Joker. This element is something that should have stayed exclusively to the Tim Burton movies. Speaking of those movies, there is something that needs to be said about them. I'm going to flat out admit that they are terrible excuses for Batman movies. Batman murders people with a smile on his face!? The Joker being given a definitive name, dancing to Prince music, and wanting to get in bed with Vicki Vale!? Catwoman having a split personality as well as adding supernatural elements to her character!? The Penguin being raised by actual penguins in a sewer, being more similar to Killer Croc than the character he is supposed to be based on in the comics, using actual rocket strapped penguins to take over Gotham, the movie wanting us to both sympathize with him and yet still cheer for his defeat!? The movies spend more time focusing on the villains than the title character. What the heck, Tim Burton!? You can't just twist the characters into whatever you want. Some deviation is acceptable, but when you go against the core of these characters, or make some absolutely bizarre changes for no rhyme or reason; it doesn't work. You need to have read more than just The Killing Joke. People say Joel Schumacher ruined Batman. No, Tim Burton did. The reason the first two movies got praise was due to him getting the Adam West image out of the public consciousness. I am so thankful I was able to see proper adaptations of Batman through the DCAU and the Nolanverse movies before watching those movies to see what they were like.

The true answer is actually that Joker got plastic surgery and a name change from being Joe Ker👍🏻Done lmao

When I saw the title I was thinking Jack Nicholson. I was also playing DCUO. While runing around Gotham waiting for the Devs to make the sky red.

I need that episode made.

What if Jim gordan shot the waynes being a dirty cop and does not arrest batman knowing he is bruce and helping him to try to say sorry for the mistake he made so long ago like if agree

First comment

YES A NEW FIRE VIDEO!!

11:04 This has actually been turned into a comic. Not 100% on the title as it's been a long time since I've read it. From what I remember Alfred dons the red lipstick and chalked face as the joker because that's when he sees Bruce most alive... or something along those lines. In the same issue I think it starts with the funeral of batman but again it was a long time ago

The beginning of the video was just *shivers*

Jack Napier also used as the only other known identity used by the Joker besides the original Red Hood in a few of the animated films such as Under the Red Hood and the Arkham games. And then it's still made clear it is not known if it was a real name or an alias.

In the Tim Burton films, yes he is DEFINITELY responsible for killing Batman’s parents.

Can you do more history of the joker? I love these histories.

Is it possible that the Joe Chill comic could take place earlier in the timeline? Batman's JL-era costume aside, it could work as a story taking place during his BTAS years.

Bro, i respect you figuring that out

Maybe Jack Napier wasn't the character original birth name in Batman89 either, I mean the Flahsback only uses Jack.

Could you do a video about Unproduced DCAU episodes?

i personly like to think that some of the stories for Batman Adventures comics such as the joe chill story might have taken place in the Canon, because the way the story presented is very interesting, the idea that Joe Chill was living in constant fear that Bruce Wayne would one day come and seek revenge for is parants death.

I do like the murderes of the wyanes being unknown in the dcau. That it's a tragic event that has no biger meaning and closure.

Allow me to offer my applause for “the open nature of his nomenclature”. Good job.

Actually, Batman Adventures (2nd run) #17, "Last Chance" had Joe Chill in it, and was the last DCAU Batman story before the Batman Beyond stuff takes place.

I find it rather weird because there are certain episodes that you're showing in this video that I have never seen in the available Amazon rentals.

That's a damn iconic silhouette The Joker has, even pre-transformation. I'd like to think Bruce's keen mind wouldn't mess up the guy's build, even if the black mercy supplied the face. Plus we'd be stacking even more coincidences than Burton. The same guy killed Bruce's and Andrea's parents and got knocked into the acid by Bruce. I'd also like to point out that post-crisis, Joe Chill was NOT the murderer of Bruce's parents, they made it someone random, so it's crime itself that can be blamed. I don't think they went back to it being Joe Chill until a Grant Morrison in 2009, Joe Chill in Hell. There was also a story in the 1990s where they found a body in the river burnt up by acid, casting doubt if the Joker was the same guy who fell in that particular vat of chemicals. Seems like DC's policy at the time was to de-coincidence Batman stories.

I wonder if there's multiple "Jokers" like was recently revealed in the comics.

Bruce was nine and his parents took him to a movie and when they went out joe tried to kill bruce his parents took the bullets