Diets: Macros Vs Calorie Counting - What The Fitness EP 17 

I learned way more from this video than I expected. I love these Friday videos, thank you for creating them!

Dave: calories don't matter Also dave: when dieting you need to cut or add the amount of carbs (4 calories each)

I'm here because dr greg doucette told me to sub, great content

"If you use words like ALWAYS, you're ALWAYS gonna be wrong"

Layne, you completely changed my view on food/calories. Thank you sir for not only laying out quality information, but backing it up with where it comes from. (copy/paste that statement for all the videos of yours that I have watched so far)

I’m more impressed of your ability to instantly point out logical fallacies than your knowledge of nutritional science.

Well, I dropped my calories to below 2,000 and I’m losing weight even while eating carbs - guess I’m a calorie psychopath, Dave!

I love the direction you're taking your channel. It's way more entertaining than the original videos while still delivering the scientific evidence based approach to diet and fitness.

For me I find it easier to track calories. If I miss a meal I know how many calories I can eat versus trying to figure out the macros. Super helpful especially when you're traveling or going to someone's house to eat.

"These calorie people are psychopaths" LOL

Such a breath of fresh air in the nutrition world. Please...Keep doing what you are doing good sir. Your information is very much needed by everyone.

I've gone from 124kg to 72 kg just being in a calorie deficit with higher amounts of protein just for body recomp reasons .. I do ZERO cardio and just lift weight 3 days a week for about an hour to an hour and a half depending on my rest times I still have carbs and fats .. and if I'm under my calories for the day I will have that brownie .. its news to me that this doesn't work considering I have lost 52kg's (115 pounds) just staying in a calorie deficit and pretty much eating what I want as long as it keeps me under my calories for the day

You are getting better at this. I believe RU-vid has taught you to communicate things to the masses more clearly. I really enjoyed this segment. Keep it up

Just scrolling back through missed videos really enjoyed this one. Layne your the genius OG of the fitness industry love your work.

Yes. Thank you for this great explanation! Great content, as always!! Hope Dave takes you up on that debate challenge.

Great video like always you ROCK !!! Brother Thank you for putting out these great videos

Im losing weight eating mocha latte's, burgers, tacos, and cheese quesadillas because I'm tracking in a deficit. Loving life and I'm not that much hungrier.

I am absolutely floored this was coming from someone who has been in the game as long as Dave Palumbo. He should know better.

Yes, finally a longer video!

Dave’s loves to talk about how when he was growing as a bodybuilder he would eat McDonald’s daily and NOT get fat.. wouldn’t those be “negative partitioning agents” and make him fat?🤔

I love what you are doing with these vids. When I am tempted to change tactics due to what someone convincingly states is correct I just think of all your lectures and am back on the straight and narrow. No wonder people get confused with these charlatans. It’s a wonder they don’t get sued. Thanks 🙏

love this content !

I find it funny that when he goes into talking about the macro ratio, he says how you need to then adjust your carbs based on whether your'e gaining or losing weight. That is literally adjusting your calories based on what your goals are. Not only are you adjusting your calorie intake, you are then adjusting your macro profile too. It is a really dumb argument lmao.

Good stuff Layne, and I would love to see that debate.

Can you talk about Dr Jason Fung and Ted Naiman? They swear by fasting, hormones, and keto type diets. How can reputable Doctors keep ignoring calories and the law of thermodynamics?

Great info response ! Well since we didn't get to see Ferguson vs. Khabib (for the 5th time) Might as well see this awesome topic get slayed by both Dave & Layne! I'm sure he'll be open to it. Views are important right now ☺

Big Thank You!

Before I started really working out- when I was in my early twenties I lost 30 pounds. I ate egg whites, cereal, almond milk, weight watchers cakes, candy, turkey burger, green beans, and sliced cucumber with salt. It was SO unhealthy, but I only ate 1200 calories a day. 7 years later, I have kept the weight off. I eat healthy foods now, and I'm conscious of my calories, make sure I am eating enough protein. But I still eat a pretty high sugar diet. Apples, peaches, protein bars. I can't do artificial sweeteners so my protein bars have a good amount of sugar. I am hungry less often when I restrict my sugar intake, but I lost weight on a high sugar diet... Probably would have been more comfortable and less hungary had I chosen healthier foods, but.... According to this macros argument, I should have gained a boatload of weight. And when he talks about having that brownie because you're under your calories, on Saturdays I would not eat all day so that I could go out to eat at night and get ice cream. I would eat my maintenance calories for the entire day in that 1 meal and it worked.

You should absolutely write a book about bro science versus research science in this vein of nutrition and gaining/losing weight.

Love to see the debate!!

Way to throw it down! So appreciate your expertise and desire to call out the BS and reference the literature.

Lane told me to take 2 grams of testosterone and it doesn't matter if I eat clean!! Got it!! Thanks for the info!!

I REALLY hope he has that debate, I love it when layne destroys someone who is just selling bs

Layne sometimes I'm so sorry for you bro, you have to deal with all these stupid people that ruining industry and don't understand how science works and even physiology. Really appreciate you for everything 💪👍

Biolayne ftw!

Love your content Dave. Just noting that you meant to say prednisone was Cortisone not cortisol which is a different hormone.

"I don't count calories i count macros"... so technically you do count calories because you eat less carbs or fat to lose weight right? Well that's a calorie deficit

Dave's arguments gave me palumboism!

So good! Layering in the logical fallacy/cognitive bias in the statements he’s making, makes this breakdown even better.

Well, it's both isn't it. Calorie focus will absolutely determine weight loss, macro focus will more what kind of weight and overall health. And some foods have a much higher calorie cost than others. I agree that people who focus solely on calorie number are wrong, you need to focus on both. Layne has some good videos on this.

Hi layne, Could you possibly extrapolate maybe in another video, a short answer if possible, about the relationship between hormones, and fat loss, beause other scientific experts such as Dr Benjamin Birkman, discuss the relationship of how hormones, can affect this notion of burning fat despite being in a caloric deficit, and I'm still a bit confused. Thank you for the great content

Thank you

One thing you forgot Layne is not only TEF of protein but also the energy intensive process of converting aminos to glucose to fat. Pretty much impossible to have net fat gains if the only thing you are eating is high amounts of lean animal proteins.

Uh math is hard. Simple numbers over percentages for me 😂 Enjoyed the video! Just subscribed!

Just started watching your content . I've done omad , keto ,carnivore , psmf etc . I believed with eachone that I had stumbled on the holy grail . Now I listen to you and I'm changing my mind . Calories do matter . I have also started taking artificial sweetners again 😋 . I hope you can answer a question for me . The Rabbit starvation diet . If I ate only extreemly lean meat but more than my daily requirement by 500 calories would I gain weight or would i starve and get skinny ? Keep up the good work .

I did carni, lost some weight, then stuck. Meat only,no carbs and yep still came down to fuel intake,use and stores. I set out to test a few diet methods,and I bounced it against science and my own result's..and I ended up at Stan Efferding and Layne Norton I follow Stans Vertical Diet,but they both echo same approach. I follow them both

That email time song tho

Listened to this while driving and almost went off the road laughing at Dave

Dave is the ultimate BRO scientist. He even thinks free weights cause a "different look" to a physique.

Dave clearly defines macronutrients to include protein, carbs, m-tren, clen, and prednisone.

Dave is the definition of bro science

I like to think macros as a range instead of an absolute number. An article highlighting a study shows low carb or low fat it doesn’t matter for weight loss : examine.com/nutrition/low-fat-vs-low-carb-for-weight-loss/

i use both. macros are useful in helping maintain a minimum level of fat, protein and fibre.

How does this guy have a platform

2:35 Another error: Weight Watchers uses a Points system which is influenced by a food’s caloric content but also adjusts for sugar, protein, and saturated fat. Also most fruits and vegetables are zero Points, meaning the participant can have them ad libitum (which is basically their way of encouraging more fiber intake.) I can’t speak to those other programs, but WW is not “a calorie is a calorie.”

"and anyone that wants to come on and debatethis with is welcome" Layne: *ears perk up*🙃 say what!? Yeah, okay... let's do that... 😂

Dr, I got a question. So if you’re in a deficit with enough protein. The body’s gonna automatically lose fat for the weight loss? Despite the fat / carb ratio? Cause we all know the body easily stores fat as adipose tissues instead of converting glucose to fat ( De novo Lipogenesis). So logically, having minimal fat (15%) for hormonal function and filling the rest with carbs for performance will provide the ideal process to store less fat while losing weight.

I actually would like to see a study where they had people eating 500 less of thier BMR, one ĝroup eats nothing but lean cabs, the other nothing but lean protien for 3 month and see what happens.

Yes! Please debate!!!

He destroyed his own argument at the end. I was hoping you’d comment on it. He said his macronutrient breakdown is X amount of protein per lb of body weight, X amount of fat per lb of body weight, and Carbohydrates ‘depending on your metabolic needs’. The fluctuation in carbohydrates in his own model is what puts you above or below a set calorie goal and balances the energy expenditure. I don’t see how people don’t understand this.

When (sane) people say calories in - calories out doesn't work they are not suggesting that diet breaks the laws of thermodynamics. What they are saying is that you have massive problems accounting both sides of this equation, to the point that it is a useless guide to fat loss. Calorie counts in foods on one side can be wildly off, and calorie expenditure is regulated by lots of hormones that control fat storage, core temperature, mood and energy levels, not to mention the calories the body directly disposes of without even burning them. Moreover, this CI/CO mantra has been used forever by junk food companies to imply that all calories are the same, so it doesn't matter what you stuff your mouth with.

10:00. I have a question: high protein diets have been shown to reduce muscle loss in calorie deficit. If so, some of that protein must be being used to build muscle. If so, not all of it is available for oxidation for energy. Thus, one should be able to ingest more calories in the form of protein compared to carbs but maintain a larger calorie deficit (since not all of the calories from protein are truly available to contribute to energy balance). This is on top of TEF. Is this correct?

"not dumb guy but his is making a dumb argument" well said! n very correct great info here the whole idea of "my way one way" dieting is ridiculous.

oh this is up for debate. have seen many women struggling with losing fat on a water fast or on a 300-500kcal regime!

You could bring Greg "the doctor" Doucette with you

Do you calculate protein from plant source in your daily protein requirements?

please do a what the fitness on autumn bates. she has a masters in nutrition and says calories in and calories out doesnt matter its all about your hormones and insulin level. she has an episode saying pb2 will make you fat because of the 1g of sugar and its not satiating where peanut butter is better.

I personally believe keeping protein sufficiently high and calories in a deficit is the best route, best of both worlds...I'm right down the middle with these arguments.

Doc what do you think on muscle centric medicine?

If you track macros, you track calories as you can simply convert Xg to Ykcal easily. (If you track calories, you may not be paying attention to the macro breakdown though.) Oh, Dave...

I saw that video posted and immediately laughed and scrolled right passed it. No way was I giving that a view.

Dr Ben Bikman will not agree with you as much as you don't agree with Dave.

I love how you roast these fuckers throwing out false claims!

Dave’s pride will be hurt by this. He’ll do a response video for sure 😆

First he says how tracking calories is stupid and then goes on to recommend a very specific intake of protein per body weight unit (which is a predetermined amount of calories), a very specific intake of fats per body weight unit (which is a predetermined amount of calories) and a non-specific amount of carbs "based on an individual metabolic needs", which just translates as "however many calories you need to stay in a deficit (if you want to lose weight) or be in a surplus (if you want to gain muscle).

Lmao this intro was fire

if only dave himself would see this ^^

That's some solid bro science xD

Big question here, that may require a video in and of itself: Two people, clones of each other(identical Metabolism genetics), eating identical amounts of calories, but say one eating a tiny bit more to account for the thermodynamic effect of a their now, much higher protein content diet. Will we see any physiological changes in the higher protein content diet individual? My assumption is that only if that person was previously protein deficient. If we do see a difference, would it be a set amount of contractile tissue, to a point at which their protein intake (on this new diet) could sustain the needs of that tissue? Covering hormonal interactions in this video would be very interesting.

Pretty intresting... I've been fat through my childhood, I'm a mezo-endomorf guy, yet now I eat chocolate, pastry while always paying attention to my calories, and I have a six packs. Guess Im a magician than.

For the algorithm!

It's all about calories in vs calories out but in the real world counting macros is by far the best method. If I eat low protein processed garbage containing both carbs and fats I get fat easily....my NEAT is non existent. If I eat high protein, high carb and low fat I can't get fat... i can't sit still, my body just wants to burn the calories off. The more calories I eat, the more I feel the need to move and do stuff So yes, it's all about calories but the macros you eat massively affect calories out. So I'd agree with Dave. 2 style of eating that work. 1. High protein, high carb, low fat 2. High protein, low carb, high fat. Eating high fat and high carb together is a recipe for disaster.

As usual you are more completely correct science-wise by way of explanation. And as such much more useful when understoood and applied. But this requires a more sophisticated cognitive ability. But after all Dave was on a "rant." Hope the debate happens

I’ve never seen a video from this guy nor do I know who he is, but I know who Dave is and Dave couldn’t be more wrong. Macros 1000% don’t matter. Yes I like to take in more protein because your body uses more energy to break down Protein than the other 2 macros but I don’t care about my fat to carb ratio. Plus protein keeps you more full longer. Dave has used his method for years and doesn’t want to accept he hasn’t had to do this way this whole time.

my friend met dave about dave training him, they met at a mcdonalds and all dave did was tell him which steroids he needs to be on nothing about past training diet history or anything else

Do a debate!

What Lane is not understanding is that different foods cause a hormone response in the body. Dr. Ted Naiman's P:E diet is the best resource for understanding all this calorie mess.

I must be the only one that dropped alot of weight on Prednisone, it killed my appetite, I got way too thin!

Jumbo Palumbo!

If you’re on a 500 calorie deficit and you don’t lose weight, you’re not on a calorie deficit! Easy peasy

Surely do a debate with Dave. Bro science from genetically gifted fitness industry people is confusing the crap out of people. People don't know who to believe.

Palumbo is damn crazy...

If you deadlift a bar off the ground in an open space on earth with normal gravity and let go of the bar, it will ALWAYS fall back to the ground.

You really gotta do some in the protein factory. I don’t know if it still exist.... in the back of a pet supply store 😂 they( the owner) was craaaaaazy and then spent so much time staying everyone was for steroid users but started to selling specifically to steroid users.

Imagine looking like Dave Palumbo.

If you’re not counting calories forget your macros. Sort your calories out first. When thats dialled then you can look at macros. Forget macros exist if you’re not sorting calories first.

I remember having a convo with Layne about this back in 05 or 06 at the Arnold. There's been so much stupidity about this ever since. People just need a few physics and chemistry classes to understand the basics I suppose. Also, you just can't teach somebody something their IQ can't comprehend.

Hi Layne, there is this doctor called Greg Doucette, whats your opinion on him?

Shit I feel I should be paying Lane Tuition fees for all I'm learning from him!!

protein will be used for building the cells ,carbs will store more fat In a surplus than protein not theoretical in reality if you go with 3500 calories and 40!%is protein you will gain very little fat if you with 10%you will lose muscle and gain fat , offcourse a calorie is a calorie but protein probably won't be used for energy in the first place ,clean food and essential fats etc will have a better result in the long health wise training wise etc