Play in simulation mode. Every 4wd or rwd oversteer with ease. Just turn, tap the brakes, and hold the throttle wide open. You'll be spinning out into trees in no time.
The AWD understeer and pendulum effect is absolutely realistic and a big improvement. From watching a lot of rally videos people think these cars drift everywhere on throttle, but in truth they are very difficult to slide. You need to hurl the weight one way and steer a bit too much, then use that pendulum effect to come back the other way even harder, and then back the other way even harder again, that's exactly what it's like to drive one of these modern AWD rally cars. To be honest I've never found it that fun, and I'd much rather spend my time in an older and much slower RWD car for some nice drifting action. Also sorry to sound like a dick but if as you say you've never driven anything like these cars, how can you review the realism aspect of the handling. Review the fun-ness sure, and to be honest I agree with your points, but the realism aspect is basically the opposite of everything you've assumed in the video. E.g, you said if you floor it and turn full lock you can get the back to come around, and you said you can see that making sense in an FWD car. That's totally the opposite, if you floor it and turn hard in an FWD car, especially on dirt, you'll just plow straight on. But in a RWD car it's obvious that the back will come around. But with an AWD drive car that's powerful enough, flooring it and turning hard will send enough power to the rear wheels to bring the back around, and it's pretty much the only way to bring the back around in an AWD car. Basically this game is much more realistic on all of those points, but maybe less fun as a result? Personally I think it's more fun because it's more realistic.
Very well said. As someone with experience in an actual AWD rally car, it's easy to tell that the physics in Dirt 4 are much more true to life. I have experience in SCCA Rallycross and some experience with rally stages throughout Michigan including Sno Drift. As I mentioned in my comment earlier from today, AWD cars aren't magical vehicles that will carve through a corner at WOT. It takes a balance of throttle and weight distribution to get that smooth, fast, and effortless hairpin cornering. I think a lot of the folks in here that arr complaining saying that Dirt Rally is more realistic had a blast with that game, and got really frustrated with D4 because they couldn't handle the cars like they used to so they choked it up to be that it's worse. My personal opinion is if they took the physics of the surfaces from dirt rally, and the physics of the car handling from Dirt 4, that would make for one epic sim model. An example would be Wales GB. In D.R. its much more slippy, as it would be in real life, but in dirt 4 it's like driving through dry airid dirt which is not true to life. The ground surfaces on those stages in Wales GB are like a dense mud clay, and when wet they become immensely slick.
I agree with you 100%. The weight transfer and on-throttle understeer problem has been destroying rally games for decades. I'm 35 and in my opinion there have been only 4 rally games that have got it right: Sega rally 1, Colin Mcrae Rally 1, Richard Burns Rally and Rallisport Challenge 2. You would have thought that Codemasters would have mastered rally car physics by now, but they are going backwards. It's all well and good having nice graphics and audio but if the handling is bad, what's the point? You're better off watching a WRC review video.
It feels horrible. I want to like it...but I can't. There is nothing better than Dirt Rally....besides maybe braking stability. It's made me appreciate Dirt Rally.
totally agree👍👍 d4 rally sucks...they complain about gravity, but m.ostberg jumped 50m in finland wrc.. way too much grip in d4.. drive a golf R 2012 4wd with 340hp it WILL slide on gravel roads when pushing, check out top 5 rally drifts on youtube, real life grip levels........ happy christmas 🙂
I would love some new content for Dirt. It kind of falls short of tracks. But developer teams moved on long time ago :( Lets hope for more Dirt Rally in the future.
I think its a marketing technique really - Dirt Rally is an amazing game and I will keep playing it because it drives amazing - Dirt 4 is different with other features and directed at a different style of audience within the Rally lovers - ie Dirt 3. This would explain the silly choices.
most AWD cars have weirdly set power differential settings.. you dont have to change open/stiff differential, but most AWD cars have a 52/48 or 50/50 power distribution from front axle to rear axle.. if you just change that to something like 40/60, it should fix any concers about AWD cars behavior! :P dont know why Codies did the base setups like that though, it seems counterintuitive
I find the throttle oversteer issues you describe most apparent with the Lancia 037. Even on wet tarmac I can go full throttle at any point in a turn without the back kicking out and it just feels wrong for a 330hp, supercharged, RWD, very light car. It can be a different story on gravel but it just feels very wrong driving a RWD group B car in the wet and not being in any way afraid of flooring the throttle.
Very well said, my feelings exactly. Thank you. And the M3 at DirtFish is probably the best RWD experience I've had in the game so far. The problem is, though, that as soon as you take the car on an actual gravel stage, the handling seems to get a lot more understeery again with hardly any on-throttle oversteer (I mean it's there, but not nearly as much as in DirtFish) :(
With all the negative of dirt 4, I still have a huge amount of fun, with my wheel. It’s just nice and chill and driving in dirt 4 is very relaxing for me. Especially if I play a little music. I would prefer if it was a bit harder to control cars in Dirt4 but I also think the car handling in dirt rally, is a bit too hard. Both great games imho.
Stiffening the rear and locking differential didn't seem to get the results I wanted. It felt like I was over compensating for a problem somewhere else in the setup. What I've found is that the under-steer problem is caused mostly by the alignment of the front wheels. Adjust for more turn-in and more grip and it handles a lot better! You can also lessen the grip on the rear, if you want more over-steer. I've only tried it with 2 cars since I just found it yesterday, but it seems to do the trick.
Yeah, setting a more sensible alignment helps, but the thing is, it doesn't help getting the rear wheels to break traction much. It still feels like driving with traction control. Also, no sane rally driver would be willingly lowering grip with a setup I think, so while it might indeed work to a degree in the game, it's just a crazy thing to do from the realism point of view :)
It's mostly about getting more grip and turn-in in the front. Stiffening the rear is also a way of lowering the grip, but has a negative effect on bumpy roads so I prefer to use alignment. It's also pretty common, as far as I know, to use a setup to add or remove some over-steer.
@GamerMuscleVideos, For AWD vehicles specifically, if you go to your tuning options before a stage and adjust your Center Torque Bias towards the rear you will get more throttle oversteer. This is a major component to tune when wanting more oversteer under throttle through turns. Most AWD cars from Group A and above are setup with a 50/50 torque bias setup, so when you throttle hard while cornering your front wheels will naturally pull you in the direction your steering however on loose surfaces you lose traction. So when you throttle through a corner you get understeer from the front losing traction and your rear wheels pushing you straight instead of around the bend. In short, adjust your (CENTER) TORQUE BIAS more towards the rear to give more power and torque to the rear wheels causing oversteer.
The big telling symptom for me that the power on handling isn't right is the difficulty in taking a RWD (or rear biased 4WD) car that is facing the wrong way and trying to power on spin it to face the right way. It doesn't work. In good tarmac based sims it's the simplest thing in the world to do - light up the rear wheels and turn the wheel and the car will flip round with ease and in Dirt 4 you can't even do this on gravel! I'm enjoying the game for what it is TBH but my most infuriating moments have all been trying to get a spun car back facing the right way.
Like I said, Dirt 4 maybe have issues, but not any more than AC in the currant state. I'm in Greece since two weeks and can tell that the typical Greece Dirt Rally tracks are the most slippy tracks I ever have driven with a Mountainbike. Rockhard surface with a few millimeters loose sand laying on the top. There's like no grip because the tyres can't bite. Many people seem to think that gravel is that way, but it's rather unique and probably the reason why the WRC isn't running there since the early 80's. It's so unpredictable because occasionally you get maybe one inch of sand but the next corner it's washed out from the wind. DR does a good job in simulating it, but no gravel is like this today.
Its really like almost no one understands how the 4 wheel drive in these cars works. all these people talk about how dirt 4 in sim doesnt show how a real 4wd rally supercross car works. personally i've played both games and when i get on dirt 4 its like a duck in water, everything reacts, leans, grips, and slides as it should, close to real life. but dirt rally has this god awful moon gravity, the cars are basically toy cars, they have no grip at all, even though these are state of the art rally cars (weird) and they seem to have really open diffs or something(most likely goes back to weight) because the cars dont want to stay in slides nor act like all 4 wheels are pulling like they should. Ive tried messing with set ups, but taking the same stock set up car on both games on the same track, dirt 4 just wins, it feels better, it feels right. Ive studied and worshiped motorsport since i was born, and i feel like dirt 4 is far more comparable to irl at least in reguards to the rallyX and top end cars.
Probably the fairest review for Dirt 4 so far. It's not nearly as bad as DR fanboys want to make it look like, but the on-throttle handling on the rally stages suffers from incurable understeer for sure. YourStage is even less useful than pre-made stages. Putting stages together out of Lego bricks is not the way to do it for rallying. Either make the engine generate pretty much everything or don't bother with generating anything at all.
Watching that video the cars seem to handle far far differently to my copy of Dirt 4. I get massive ammounts of oversteer in all the cars but the video shows cars understeer.
Come on there is such a pendulum affect! Understeer then wobble back and forth in the steering. Major issue with the physics in Dirt 4! Very arcade very disappointing especially after they hyped it up to have a simulation mode.
I wonder if the grip were lower overall if the pendulum aspect of the physics would decrease , it certainly seems that way on the rain stages. Be interesting to see what happens over the next 6 months with updates.
GamerMuscleVideos for sure be nice to see if they can fix this title with an update. I must admit I was very critical of dirt rally when it was first released. Codemasters did a great job of sorting the forcefeedback and a few of the other issues of that title. So fingers crossed.
@@GamerMuscleVideos hello there, did any updates make any changes to dirt4? Liking your reasonable views on race games. And your real life racing vid was cool too, good u didn't trash their car hehe, cheers buddy. 👍
Yes, the most satisfying part of driving is learning and executing throttle and braking inputs to maximize the efficiency of your intended vector(s). Steering and even gear shifting are secondary and should be easily optimized especially if the course has been memorized. The way that Grid 2 was able to replicate the drifting aspect in a medium level simulator was transfered into this title. Drifting seems to optimize the vector properties of throttle inputs but can reduce efficiencies in speed carry-through.
Colin McRae used to drive the Focus under brake because of the cars tendency ti pitch the nose up under throttle. The team hated it but he was the fastest driver in the world so it was kinda quick fix.
I'm so disappointed of this propagandised "Your Stage" feature. I mean I just saw the nearly identical track which I generated a couple of days. There are several sections which are as alike as two peas in a pod. Thank you for your videos. I totally agree with all you've been saying about Dirt 4 so far.
I agree I would have thought there is quit a lot of room to build on the system they have in place, for example the town section in Spain seems to load in and run quite well so I would have thought they could do 5-10-15 more of them or even just have a random real town come in. I think by mixing your stage with real world location sections could work really well to make a game that then gives the advantages of both random generation + more interesting sections.
Ze Kman Mee too, unfortunately. :-( It's really a big letdown that do many sections are re-used over and over again. I mean I have only 16 hrs in the game and I know a lot of sections from different countries. That's not how I had imagined a "track generator".
Yep totally agree with your video and comments, can't get any balance like I can in dirt rally and feel like I'm on the edge every second too get a time
GamerMuscleVideos absolutely hit the nail on the head in this vid. I totally agree about the cars behaving like they have weight to them, and because of that braking into the corners definitely feels much better. Weight shifting and transitioning is definitely better in Dirt 4 than it is in Dirt Rally. But throttle oversteering in the 4WD cars in Dirt 4 is just wrong. Its none existent. The external replays show the problem well. The cars start to go sideways into a bend, then snap back into a straight position mid bend, soon as you open the throttle. The only way you can slide through faster bends is by being completely off throttle. You can definitely see something wrong with the car behavior in the external replays. It just looks wrong.
I've got one thing to add about modern rally cars. It's not that the cars are setup to not oversteer. It's the driver that choose not to do so. For ex. if you have access to WRC+ take a look at the last stage of Rally Portugal and during the end of a stage look how different is Paddon's drive from Tanak. In short, at that time Paddon gave up fight for points and he decided to have a bit of fun, so he was sliding all over the place. In contrast Tanak was driving much smoother (to get more grip). You can also go to FIA WRC channel and look for onboard videos. You'll see that these cars can easily slide around if the driver wants to. From what I've seen it's not the case in D4
PLHarpoon I would bet that there understeery real world setups still allow for the driver to use throttle oversteer. even the 2000s cars are super reluctant to have power oversteer and from my understanding and from watching rally more back then they were definitely driven on the throttle with over steer in many situations. I explained this in the video, anytime somone says power oversteer seems a bit wonky in dirt 4 people shout back about modern rally cars not being drifted around and set up to be neutral , as if that's some sort of secret knowledge that then makes the lack of power oversteer in the game justified.
Lets get down to the real meat and potatoes of Dirt4's issues. Why do the wipers constantly wipe my dry dusty windscreen even when i have disabled automatic wipers? Why is that a thing?
i have a weird issue that i want to put my wipers on full speed even if it is not raining, i downloaded a mod for DiRT Rally so the car gets dirtier, and hence that i must put my wipers on, so it doesn't get all dirty and shiny lol
Totally agree with this. Hopefully the on-throttle challenge will be improved with the upcoming updates. I believe this concern was addressed by the devs shortly after release. Will wait and see.
Dirt 4 simulation mode is a joke. I can't believe they tried to pass it off as realistic or good physic. some of the way the car handles is just a joke and makes no sense. Dirt Rally is a solid game, the physics are great and i will go back to playing it.
Everyone keeps saying that the cars did not have mass in dirt rally and in dirt 4 they have. Exactly what do you mean by that? The weight transfer and pendulum effect was 10 times better in dirt rally, which felt like to me atleast that the car had mass
Lurgen The mass improvement is only vertical. Horizontally it feels like they made the cars weigh less than paper, they have way too much grip and won't slide.
laliluleo 1989 agree, and at 150-190km/h on uneven roads the car will jump around.. M.ostberg jumped 50metres in 2017.. thats real life.. re. grip they can check out "top 5 rally drifts" real life grip levels....
I used to think the same as everyone else complaining about arcade handling, but in reality they all just suck at the game and blame the game because they suck at driving.
I completely disagree about the scandinavian flicks (4:35) For me it was A LOT easier in dirt rally. Thats the thing i dislike the most in dirt 4, the back-end just wont come out as nicely. Even when using the handbrake, as soon as you let go of it the car just sticks and wants go to straight forward instead of making a powerslide through the corner. In dirt rally I could throw that thing from side to side (as they do in rally) and it was so much fun! Now the handbrake is pretty much useless because you go through corners the same way as if you were on asphalt.
Guess I spoke too soon! I feel so stupid now, yet happy. I honestly did not think that car setups could save this game, but i gave it a try yesterday and the results were amazing. I tried to improve oversteer with toe-in angle in the front, stiffened up the rear roll bar and maybe some other minor adjustments, nothing overly dramatic. Dirt 4 became a whole new game after that! Finally i can rip through corners and do my handbrake powerslides ^^ Question is why did they make the cars so useless as standard? You could say its only personal preferences, but i think not. It was bad! In dirt rally i did not have to touch any of these things, the standard settings were already good except for gearing sometimes.
I think i disagree with your point at 4:30 ish where you talk about scandy' flicks and such. Dirt 4 seems to have abandoned the proper feel of a lose surface in mid speed sweepers. The car seems to always catch grip as if on tarmac midway through a corner. You'd think a scandy' flick would solve this, but it doesn't really, like there's never enough momentum. The cars feel a bit too planted when all their momentum has been thrown into (lets say) a right 3 long. in the case of a right 3 long, unless the car is RWD, you kind of have to throw it in twice. Once on entry and once at apex. Overall, it seems to be a step down in terms of weight transfer physics since Dirt Rally. The slides can't quite be maintained realistically. It's especially evident when you're messing around on the practice course. You're absolutely right about how the backend behaves under trail braking, more similar to RBR than dirt rally in that regard.
Anyone who thinks the braking, or left foot braking in the game is wrong. Watch this. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Pcg15lHSBKU.html You will hear them talk about doing everything that the dumb kids who have never driven a rally car, more or less on gravel, say a rally car should do. In case there are those out there too thick to get the concept of what is being said in this video, because you have to have your hand held, and everything explained to you. The simple fact of the matter is this...modern WRC/R5/S2000 cars are all extremely good with their suspension geometries to provide very direct steering, and very good grip. All AWD cars are inherently goinging to understeer. If you just went into a corner, turned the wheel, and booted the throttle, you would understeer. The front wheels would be turned sideways, reducing their grip level, when you mash the throttle, the car will have a weight shift rear ward. This weight shift will load the rear tires, and reduce the load on the front tires. This weight shift further reduces the front grip, which causes the rear tires to get more grip, which launches the car straight ahead, regardless of what direction the wheel is turning. This is why you MUST deploy left foot braking to get weight over the front end of the car on corner entry, so that the front end can bite, and the rear end can rotate around it. This idea that you can simply go sideways with throttle, is rubbish. Furthermore, when mid corner, more braking force will pull the car in tighter to the corner. The way is extremely complex, but it deals directly with the weight on each wheel, and how much rotational slip each wheel has. You can also hear the drivers talk about dragging the brake through a corner to keep the cars weight balance shifted forward to induce some oversteer to keep the car on the racing line. You will also notice, if you watch WRC onboard footage, that rarely do the drivers pitch a car into the corner, and hold opposite lock the whole way through. Usually, at some point mid corner, they are actually turning into the corners apex while under braking, to try and get the rear end to rotate outward again. So they are really taking two to three stabs at the corner, because AWD inherently understeers, and on throttle it inherently wants to straighten itself out. So basically everything that gamer muscle said in regards to holding the brake isnt natural, or dabbing the brake mid corner is not right, and how he sues throttle to correct it everywhere else, so why not here too...is all completely and utterly wrong. Driving an AWD car at speed is not simple, nor is driving on loose surface, both are not intuitive to regular driving habits. They also do not want to go sideways just by looking at them. And they do not want to turn on the throttle without a lot of coaxing and forcing with the brake. You can argue until you are blue in that face that all of that is wrong. But i guarantee, based on the million dollar salaries of the WRC drivers in the video link i posted above, that they know a damn sight more about how a modern rally car handles, than some punter in fake racing seat, with a steering wheel to nothing in front of them. In other words, git gud, stop complaining, and learn how to drive a rally car. The problem with this game is the skill gap required to drive a car properly, not that the game gets it wrong. And you are ignorant to think any other game, thus far, has.
One of the first things I noticed in the tuning section is that for the dirt/gravel races the spring rates are ridiculously high. That right there was a red flag for me. No rally car that I know of in gravel spec uses that high of rates.. Don't know how accurately they tried to simulate that..
For me it still feels like we have some forced assists on for Rally. If you compare the Group B cars between Rally and Rallycross you have totally different behaviour from the rear end. In the rally stages you will be very hard pressed to get the back wheels to spin. Even though you would burn through rubber a lot with a locked diff on those normally. The daily rally with the sierra was even worse. Car behaved as every other one until you hit the rev limiter. At that point the back wheels burn out and you drift. The moment you get off the gas the car snaps back to it's understeer. And the cars drive differently in the dirtfish grounds. You can even drift the R4 cars there. No chance of that on the rally stages. Only thing that feels better in Dirt 4 is the braking. This one they got right.
Dirt rally physics and handling were the greatest in a game in my opinion. Dirt 4 is kinda realistic though but missing the over the top graphics of the original dirt series.
Using the brakes to turn the car in a corner is one of the main ways to stear a rally car. It is also how you do a Scandinavian flick. This was really easy to do in Dirt Rally, but not in dirt 4. So when you ride the brakes to counter the understeer that is actually what is meant to happen, except it should induce oversteer and you use this modulation of the brake to get round the corner while the accelerator was being used in tandem. This is fairly useless in Dirt 4 while Dirt Rally did it really well. If you struggled to scandinavian flick in Dirt Rally you probably weren't doing it well. Also half the time you hit the wall in Dirt 4 it induces massive snap oversteer, dirt rally never had this problem. While I do agree the cars feel more planted under braking they do not. Yeah the rear end flies out under braking but it has little to do with how hard you are braking and is just unpredictable. Real rally cars aren't that unpredictable. Though this may be due to the game being buggy and having no support for the T500 even though code masters told us it would. www.oldrallysport.on.ca/articles/Driving.html
I will say, the physics in Dirt 4 are closer to real than dirt rally. I know for some thats hard to hear but it's true. In Dirt 4, while in sim mode, to acheive faster times and better runs it pushes you to actually adjust your tune instead of running every vehicle in the standard "recommended" tuning setups. All the understeer everyone is getting in those all wheel drive vehicles, that actually happens. AWD cars aren't magical vehicles that will pull through any corner at WOT. And yes, I have real world experience. I've done Rallycross events, and stage events throughout michigan. On snow, dirt, and gravel. I'm no pro, I'm quite the novice, but I do know what it feels like in an actual AWD vehicle on actual stages. Is Dirt 4 100% true to real world? Not at all. However it is more realistic physics wise than Dirt Rally. Im sure Dirt Rally 2.0 is going to have the same physics model as Dirt 4 but much more inproved. So practice up on D4, play around with the tuning options and i promise it will start to feel good and right.
How come the old rear wheel drive cars and cars that were driven all out sideways have exactly the same dull reluctant to be driven subtly on brake and gas physics ? If you tune the cars to be rear happy you notice they then get overly snappy and it's just to the detriment of time regardless of the car.
@@GamerMuscleVideos I've found to have little trouble getting the rear out in historic RWD cars, so it's hard to give my opinion on that particular issue. With the Historic RWD vehicles, the HP figures are much less, so subtle changes in throttle seem to have little effect on the reaction of the rear. (In game) and that's one of the key downfalls of the game physics. They tried to make it as true to life as possible and I think I'm doing so they fell short on the Historic class vehicles. If you play with the tuning enough you can find a good balance between differential adjustments and suspension adjustments that will provide a nice amount of kick out without over doing it. I'll have to post a video of different tuning settings for different classes that work for different outcomes. I'm almost positive that Codemasters has addressed everyone's gripes and have provided physic fixes in Dirt Rally 2.0 and I personally hope that it's only improved. With D.R. 2.0 they had some handling consultants who are real world rally professionals so I bet it's as close to real world handling to date.
@@GamerMuscleVideos What Codemasters should have done was use the vehicle handling of Dirt 4 combined with the slippiness of Dirt Rally and that would have made one hell of a Rally game.
@@MICHIG00N So you can adjust the car to slide more? Because that was the first thing I noticed and felt boring. The car was glued to the gravel track and even when forcing a corner it barely slided. What is the setting to make it have a more natural slide? To me Rallisport Challenge had the perfect feel on all surfaces and the right amount of slide on all cars. Did you ever play that? The feeling of sliding out of a gravel turn onto tarmac and the tires just caught grip, holy shit it gave goosebumps. I miss old Dice, if they did Rally games again I have no doubt they would crush the competition.
PINEgrosbeak There are some physics mods that can help. I haven't used any, but from what I hear, some are really good. But don't take my word. Check them out.
show a video of just how many options and points of adjustment are available in setting up the cars to drive, the important stuff , or does Codemasters forbid you to do that?
For me it feels like random FWD mode kicks in on any car. :D Cause here I am counter steering and then all of a sudden I have to steer in the corner with a RWD car on full throttle, wat? I just wish people would stop trying to say that Dirt 4 is realistic or whatever, it ain't. Iss fun, but it does not simulate. You do things by reflex depending on the situation, but when you have to go against your own reflexes, you know the game is doing something wrong. Rally cross is drive able! :D Because cars have actual degrees of rotation for the wheel. instead of Dirt rally turn 45 degrees and you are at the lock. :D
Dirt 4 its an awesome game! if people spend some time with it and also change 7-8 things on tune up vehicle(also all assists off!!) you will have almost the same handling with dirt rally.
12:50 Sorry... but from what situation exactly can you get out of by cranking the steering to the stop and flooring the throttle in real life, provided you already entered a corner too fast? I assume we are not talking about fork lifts.
I don't think it's that hard to force oversteer in Dirt 4. You just have to use trail braking and the handbrake. Even the front-wheel drive cars will slide quite nicely if you do that properly. I think it was a deliberate choice by Codemaster to require you to do a bit more work to get the car sliding. It makes the car feel a bit more stable, and gives you more control over when you want to drift.
Simon G Tried an event with the Evo 6 last night. Set the car to damn near 2wd in the rain and still couldn't get the rear to step out going uphill. I tried to get into this game, but among other things this is unacceptable.
Give it more handbrake, brake while turning and practice your Scandinavian flick. If you do it right, you can get even the front-wheel drive cars to oversteer pretty easily.
Simon G You in no way should have to do that for high speed corners. Pulling the handbrake fo a 3+ is going to make the car far too unstable. Yes, some cars can actually slide, but as a whole there's still too much grip. It feels like traction control is on.
That's the thing, the car does not become unstable when you pull the handbrake. They have baked so much stability into the cars that you can easily control the drift. The game has been balanced around the assumption that you use trail-braking and the handbrake to create oversteer in any car that isn't rear-wheel drive.
Rallycross is great. Modern Rally could use a few tweaks.. Trucks are garbage.. Historic Rally needs alot of work. They got it about half right and released it anyway..
Just as much as Dirt Rally feels differently than Dirt 4, rally drivers would be able to give some feedback about how each approaches the handling of a rally car and what they do well and what they lack.
I think alot of you nay sayers need to do a bit more risky driving and learning about these supercars, and watch how they move and react with different road surfaces of differnt grip variations. I love dirt rally dont get me wrong its a great game, but dirt 4 is alot cleaner, and better feeling than dirt rally at the same ffb settings with the same wheel, and car.
you are wrong. even the developer stated they made the physics less realistic to cater to the more casual folks who just use controllers and dont car about realism
Have any of you fiddled with the feedback settings like tire slip...I got it at 150 and suspension really nice but I don’t know what setting would be real.. I’m using standard controller on PS4
All the cars, as mentioned by the devs, have been set up to understeer, on purpose, you have to set them up differently if you want it more realistic, video here that i found, it's not bad programming it's intentional to make cars easier to drive out of the box. Iv'e not tried it yet, vid below... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vfXwdWlF22Y.html
I agree with almost everything you said about dirt 4 untill now. But I only read bad things regarding the rally side. And im still confused what to think of it myself. But its clear its not perfect. I rarely see people pointing out the rallycross side of the game. IMO they nailed rallycross almost spot on. You can use the weight of the car to throw it around the tight corners and have control using gas/brake to corner. I feel the game really shines there and deserves more credit. I know what works for RX doesnt neccesarily work with rally. But I think they can bring some aspects from it to the rally part to improve it. Lastly, do you like/play rallycross?
I think I'll do a separate video on it , the rally cross cars seem mental not sure if they are realistic or not but worse case at least you can drive them in all situations with gas on brake in crazy slides lol. I guess an argument with rally cross is that maybe they are to easy to drive but in general I think they are fun which for a game is probably the most important thing.
GamerMuscleVideos I'll be looking forward to that. And yes they are mental. As far as that goes its just like real life. (with almost 600hp and faster acceleration than a f1 car, yes. they are mental!) I can't say if its realistic since obviously I'm no Ken Block. But comparing what you can see/feel driving the cars and watching the replays. (To me personally) Its exactly like what the cars on TV behave like. And just the experience I wanted out of the rallycross part of the game. Cant wait on your thoughts!
oh I didnt see your full reply. I guess I can agree it's a little on the easy side. If you mean to get the car around the track. Not the opponents. But then again maybe the RX supercars are that good? idk. Try group B rallycross. Now that is a challenge!
Honestly pisses me off that Codemasters pretty much NEVER improves their physics. Always the same basic shit, with small improvements, but barely even noticeable. If they actually improved their physics, I'd be all over F1 2017. But I'm probably getting pCars 2 instead.
considering a bunch of f1 and rally pros that started before they were 15, before they had a license, tells you that having a driving license generally doesnt relate to your driver habilities, considering modern sims are fairly realistiic
I prefer Dirt rally iI uninstalled dirt 4 and 3 from steam there are two easy to me, I like the challenge of Dirt Rally and the physics of the cars Peugeot 306 is the best I always play on Master Mod.
If you've never driven a vehicle off-road how can you possibly comment on what is more realistic? Btw you got it totally wrong... setting bias to the rear to get the back to kick out under normal braking is the realistic physics. It's why drivers use hand brake to kick the back out, hand brake only applies rear braking. That way they don't have soft front brakes at the pedal for when they need to slow in a hurry.
I have held of on this title after all the negative comparisons to dirt rally physics ............... I do hope they do fix it via a patch but I just cant see codemaster doing it :( .
haven't played it - but it looks very unnatural - real world objects with mass do not change direction so fast and twitchy... it looks like the car just stutters from left to right with the weight of paper.
Its this wheel amzn.to/2rNz5cs and your right it is a bit oval the wheel has slightly slim sides where the hand moulds are and the top part is somewhat more bulgy to make reading dials easier. I think the wide angle lens on the webcam does exaggerate the effect though as well lol.
Dirt 4 it has more grip than Drally or SLRE , that's true but it has better FFB and better weight of the car, in my opinion. Yeah its a nice game , but for me Dirt Rally until now its the best Rally sim it has some cons like Tarmac FFB or heavy brake balance , and light car on high speeds, but the overall rally feeling is there.
Just spent 6 hours playing Dirt 4 this weekend , your right best thing with it is that the cars stick to the road more / are more heavy / have down force. but the physics force you to drive them on the brake rather than with the gas, even if you set up the rear of the car to be overly tail happy (RWD , Locked Dif 0 camber , low gear ratio) The tracks are also really dull you just feel like you are driving the same 3miles of road over and over for each terrain type. Dirt Rally and RBR end up being way better rally games.
I cant agree more... that's hard to see on Sim community :), RBR and Dirt Rally yes they are more Rally focus and we can control the car with gas ,like in real life (mostly on RW cars , I had an old Toyota Starlet 1986 RW that I was running for fun on Greek SS) Dirt 4 is more Console focus game because its easy to control the car with the game pad , but its not easy to control the car with Gamepads Gas button I guess that's why it has so grip on consoles most users on gamepad work on gas like that ON-OFF, On Racing Wheel the most important is the how much gas or brake we gone give, that's Why Dirt Rally , RBR are more Wheel focused . About SS yes they are way more inspired on Rally and RBR very true , the only problem with most Rally games for me is the sense of weight of the car depending the Speed. In my opinion ,The real Rally Sim must have first of GPS based SS ( and that's easy) Also in real life the road ( I will try to say as good I as can ) has his own path ... that the cars feels heavy and the wheel follow this path of the already driven path... The wheel pull me back to this path when I go out of the boarders this is the Heavy feeling that we get like the car is trying to dig inside the road on Low speeds, And that's what Dirt 4 is doing correct it feels heavy on this path. The problems with Dirt 4 is like you already say when we turning , The Turning physics are more like RBR,DR controlled with brake and gas ,Also something that Dirt 4 is doing correct is the weight transfer of the car on high speeds on turns 5,6, without pushing gas or brakes on the car we see that the car is following first his weight and secondly the deeps of the road (path) and that feels more correct for me .... Really sorry for my bad English :)
Long story short ... all the problems with Dirt 4 are the uninspired tracks... and the over grip feeling of the car that makes progressive braking and gas , not worth it . But I think they know that on Codemasters they wanted a Console gamepad game, I hope Dirt Rally 2 would be more Wheel optimized .
The truth comes in shades of gray , such as the fact that eating another cake will make me fat and I don't want to be fat but the cake tastes good so I eat it anyway was the cake bad ?
I'm on two sides about the new handling. First of all, it feels like there's just way too much grip. The speeds at which you can take the corners, on gravel surface and without a slightest mark of slide, seem unrealistic. The way how the cars turn under braking feels good but that again seem unrealistic on loose gravel. Surely the front wheels should lose grip and start understeering if I brake hard mid corner. Now braking seems to just automatically make the car turn, as if weight transfer would always equal more grip to the front tires. On the positive side, I feel like the cars are more difficult to handle on the edge of the grip or on a slide. And that's exactly what I felt those couple of times I tried to do a handbrake turn on ice on my Toyota Avensis. :D You really need to be fast, if you want to catch a slide! Furthermore, the faster I drive, the more slide and easier turning I seem to get with the cars. So slowly I'm getting the feel that most of the understeer and amount of grip is there just due to lack of pace in my driving. So I need to drive more, but I'm starting to get it. The complaint I still have is that turning the car under braking on any kind of surface seem too easy. But then again, I've never driven a rally car either.
Yeah, Avensis is like Camry but for Europe. (I live in Finland.) First gen Avensis was introduced in -98 and it replaced Camry in Europe back then. Nowadays it's designed in Europe too I believe... But the technical side of it is probably identical with Camry.
God I had managed to forget the hillclimb cars. Even rallisport challenge 2 on xbox original was more fun. Codemasters: Google RBR and Eero Piitulainen. Throw money at him or build a sauna and trap him to code a proper codies game for once.
Dirt 4 is similar to Dirt 3 and not represented Dirt Rally's Sim game. Dirt 4 doesn't need DLC etc since it's created for arcade and not simulator race even tough there is simulator mode in Dirt 4
There definitely needs to be some fixes your stage does get repetitive after a while. However on the handling aspect unless you're an irl rally driver you can't cal something unrealistic or Arcady persay as you don't know what real feels like. Dr was amazing but personally I thought some of the oversteer was completely forced and just because yuh slide more doesn't mean it's more realistic. Irl I'm pretty sure you'd have to work to get the car out if you go to the Reddit dirt page there's irl co drivers and rally drivers saying that dirt 4 generally is more realistic than dr but a few things need to be fixed.
True, DR was a bit exaggerated on the oversteer, especially with handbrake on tarmac, but locked diff and hard rear springs, will turn the rear around properly. Those are laws of physics.
Just some advice, replay the video after and use a script while replaying the video, you sound confused on your report because your distracted playing the game.
Codemasters physics is fundamentally wrong. See, RBR, much like LFS, relies on weght being placed on the suspension and is then transferred through the tires to the surface. This is why those games feel intuitive and i basically knew how to drive a car before i have actually driven an actual car. But oh no no, CM has the same iteration of the physics from the first CMR. Go look at CMR2, 3, 4, 2005 - Car pivots around the center and i strongly suspect that the weight transfer is artificial. So instead of the car "resting" on the suspension and leting the gravity do its work, CM have the suspension hang down from the pre-calculated body position. Not to mention I once clipped a curb in DR on Lyden Hill, the car went sideways and landed at an extreme angle, so the wheels dug into the ground, which would in any other game send me in a massive roll fest, but the genius physics actually put the car back ontho the wheels, even if it was way beyond the tipping point, almost touching the ground with the side mirror. As if the car had a huge invisible weighted keel with a buld, like seen on larger sailboats.
your point about realistic handling . is proved if u try and do an on the spot donnut in a subaru 4x4 the car strarts to undrsteer until u pull on the handbrake to gt a tighter turn. point made unrealistic handling !
I mean that unless your AWD car has a bypass that completely opens the centre diff when you pull your handbrake, and I believe most stock Subaru cars don't, then with each handbrake pull, you're effectively destroying your center diff and/or transmission.
It doesn't consist *only* of fluid, and it doesn't matter it isn't fully mechanical. If you put a lot of strain on it, which you will when you pull the handbrake and happen to be applying power at the same time (which you shouldn't be doing, but many still are), you will still damage it. To what amount and how long will it take to destroy it completely obviously depends on quite a few things.
I literally just uninstalled dirt 4 and I wish I would have bought it as a hard copy cuz I could have taken it back to GameStop this game is absolutely horrible unless you have a $200 wheel if you're trying to play with a controller then good luck you can't have it on simulation mode cuz it's like driving on ice with plastic tires, the handling with a controller is either way too slick on simulation mode or you drive gamer mode and stick to the road like you're in a Formula 1 car.
@@messiahshow I play Dirt Rally 2 with a controller band have no problems, Dirt 4 is in fact garbage. Go look at reviews for it and no matter the amount of settings it's still the same, every car feels like a front wheel drive car, not to mention the horrible rally stages. If you're going to play a Dirt play Rally 1 or 2 that's just my opinion.
STOP COMPARING DIRT 4 TO DIRT RALLY!!! If your comparing Dirt 4, compare it to Dirt 3. Dirt Rally is a separate entity from the Dirt series. The handling mechanics and gameplay are vastly different. Trailbraking, handbrake turns, AWD, FWD, RWD, etc... everything you'll experience in Dirt Rally is vastly different from Dirt 4. If you're a casual gamer who plays with the controller and likes an arcade style experience then Dirt 4 is right up your alley. However if you play with a wheel, pedals, a shifter, and more interested in setting up the car from the ground up to your driving style, then your probably playing dirt Rally. All this is done for you by default in Dirt 4 (based on the quality of the team you hire). I just don't know why everyone keeps comparing Dirt 4 to Dirt Rally.......
+clintusmaximus because all through dirt 4 development they kept saying it's an improvement on dirt rally with better FFB and phisics with them also name dripping real rally drivers and then saying they focused on making it more realistic. They also made dirt4 directly following on from dirt rally specifically because dirt rally sold much better than expected and showed there is interest for more realistic rally games.
GamerMuscleVideos I still maintain, after the countless hours in Dirt Rally and (shameless plug) even spending a few weekends at rally ready driving school here in Austin TX, Dirt 4 is NOT an improvement at all over its predecessor off the road. The only upside I've seen is on tarmac sections in Dirt 4, where I've noticed Dirt Rally had an odd amount of "lift" vs where Dirt 4'sroad stages feel much closer to realism as far as down shifting, throttle lift and weight transfer, coming in and out of corners.
clintusmaximus that might be the case but codenasters were definitely wanting this to be a sequal of sorts to dirt rally whalst also having a gamer mode to make it more accessible to those with a gamepad.
