DISC BRAKE MYTHS EXPOSED: What To Expect When Moving To Road Disc Brakes 

I'd like to somehow test why they feel so sluggush (which they do). My theory is the obvious one that is the increased rotating weight. How two bikes that are within a couple of brands of each other feel so different.

Pad rubbing resistance 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️👍🏻🤣🤣🤦🏻‍♂️😅😅😅😅

When every racer knows for a fact you go faster when you Dont touch the brakes, what's the argument? When I see unskilled cyclists and inspect their brakes everyday, who can't ride well nor properly maintain their junk, how does spending even more help those problems? Pros still win and want to ride rim-braked bikes. Its a fact. They often want lighter weight in mountains where you really need brakes. On the other hand, having built carbon aerospace structures at highest quality levels on the planet and having an understanding of quality control and its costs, who's fooling who? Some disc bikes might be better in certain conditions used by riders who actually understand how to apply these brakes most effectively and how to tune and maintain them. Most disc bikes are just a means to sell new bikes. I hate to disappoint you, but discs are often mere job security and more money for mechanics and manufacturers alike. There's lots of poor and cheap disc brakes on the market less safe than rim brakes. Especially those used on entry level road bikes. Folks need to wise up and ignore marketing BS. No bike or component can make one a more skilled or fitter cyclist. Its common sense. Its the RIDER, NOT the bike!

Well put ! 😀

i never had a problem with my 9 speed cassette, i never had a problem with my aluminium bike, i never had a problem with my mechanical shifting, i never had a problem with my flat pedals.

True

I don't think anyone is debating about which is more aero.

Same with electric shifting?

I didn't know i had a problem braking😉.

@@achiltsompanos447 No. Electric shifting is even worse in this regard.

Well it has happened in 2020, they are not offering a rim bike equivalent from many manufacturers

@@waynosfotos It's 2023 and all the big players have no rim brake options.

....or, better still maintain your bike properly and not have any noises in the first place!

Thanks Alan

Yeap, dead right

This applies to those who want one(1) bike to do it all except for mountain bike trails...For those who want a bike to ride in all terrains and weather, buy a disc bike. If you're a pure roadie that only rides road in dry weather, buy a rim bike. Issue settled.

Will do Elliot. Always at pains to review those products just because DCRM does such a good job on them. That said, I think we can bring a unique look at it given a bit of time. I do like the bolt though

Hey Michael, great comment and some super suggestions there. The climbing one is something I was thinking about including but I think it maybe warrants it's own video. Now that Junior has his XR4, I was thinking maybe we go out and race each other up a few climbs ... stay tuned.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NmqGeLNcVIg.html

Do you ride in the rain lots? If not,somethings wrong or youre hauling heavy loads. Why carbon rims anyway? What did marketing tell you was so great about them? Who inspected your carbon stuff? How do YOU KNOW its safe? I used to build carbon aerospace components. Ive machined it and inspected it. I wrench in a shop now. Ive cut up carbon bike parts. Even though I can get this junk at cost I wont ride it. I know better.

@Steve King I wrench in a shop in my retirement. I was once a mechanical inspector in my 30 year career. Keep a good eye on your brake track. ESPECIALLY that front rim. Anything involving the front of the bike is a potential safety issue. If something in this area fails, chances are you'll lose control, crash or much worse. Watch for damage, anomalies, bumps and lumps or have them periodically inspected by a professional shop. It's Best done in a truing stand. If you start having issues you might be able to feel it through the brake levers when you're s applying the brakes. I work in a large chain of high end shops. We are the largest sellers of one of the 3 biggest brands in California. We warranty damaged and poorly manufactured carbon rims (used with caliper brakes) all the time. Its a very common problem. Just understand that carbon structures require LOTS of in process inspection. (in the high quality manufacturing world) This isn't happening in the larger bike industry. It costs way too much. You think your rims are expensive? Think again! I worked in high reliability manufacturing all my career. Human lives depend on bikes too!! Never forget that!! Marketing and sales are what drives the bike industry. Engineers need to work around marketing and sales goals. Profits, stockholders and that good old bottom line call the shots. Marketing is nothing but brainwashing and propaganda. You must educate yourself to get good value. If anything, buy carbon products with a solid lifetime warranty. Never buy Chinese garbage. The carbon manufacturing industry is very dirty, wasteful and polluting. I know this from building satellite components. Nothing is recyclable and it goes directly into landfill. You want to talk about a carbon footprint? Check this out: www.outsideonline.com/2261721/dirty-secret-hiding-your-high-end-mountain-bike

Hey Anthony, cheers for the comment. Like I mentioned in the intro, I didn't want to make this a RIM V DISC thing, as they both have pros and cons (not to mention it's done Ad nauseam on youtube). I more wanted to comment on the many things I've heard in bunches and in forums about road disc that don't do the technology any favours, as most of them are down right wrong. I think if I had gone into this experience with a little more knowledge about the system, it would have been way more painless.

Totally agree with the 160 rotor on the front. My TCR came with a 140 which I changed out. Big improvement.

@@dingodoggy66 please explain. What difference does 20 provide?

@@ChrisMillerCycling Thanks for the video! You've done a good job to not make it a rim vs disc but it's inevitable in the comments section.

Anthony HT...….....sorry but your argument is utterly nonsensical. Mountain bikes are a completely different animal compared with road-bikes - different terrain, technique, speeds, weather and function. [and by the way, I have raced in both disciplines]. The most important factors in modern road-frame construction is weight and stiffness. These are both greatly compromised by using disc brakes as opposed to rim brakes. Aerodynamically, rim brakes are far superior compared with discs - again, another important element in road-bike set-ups. To the best of my knowledge, mountain bikes are not directly affected by these factors. Indeed the main reason mountain bikes actually require greater braking efficiency is because of the terrain [which may be muddy, rocky, uneven and heavily cambered] and the sheer weight of the machines. Compare too the tyres and wheel-sets on a road bike and a mountain-bike. Even when I used 'slicks' on my mountain bike they were considerably heavier and wider than on my road bike. But at the end of the day - the biggest difference is in what you actually use the two different types of bikes for. I always used my mountain bike for 'winter-training' - for fun when the weather was bad. And although I competed in endurance events they were considerably shorter compared to road-races. I agree that discs probably 'lend' themselves far better to mountain biking than the old center-pull system etc. But the same rule of thumb simply does not apply with road brakes. And bearing in mind the one main benefit of disc brakes [better in the wet] to the numerous disadvantages [weight, high maintenance, less user-friendly and cost] I know which I prefer!

🥺

You also can't lose grip and slide out going around a corner. Just ask those Quickstep guys in Tour of Basque Country on stage 4

Freddie fucken Flintstone Good one. Brain is optional too. Or questionable!

Or even brain!

guys does disk brakes can be work not proper in the rain? do u know anything about this?(sry for my english if i write this comment wrong -_-)

Neither. There is only so much braking you can do until your wheel locks up. However disc brakes tend to be far less reliable and unpredictable in performance when worn.

Hey Richard, totally agree ... hence I really don't think it's a myth. The hype around modulation (when the bike is set up and working well) is from what I can tell pretty correct. Wanted to concentrate a little more on the things we are told that didn't live up to expectation ... good and bad.

I agree with Richard. Not only do the rims stay pristine, but they look better as well (easily noticeable on alloy rims [no brake track]). Also, the ability to change out a wide array of tire and rim combos and not needing to adjust brakes...You could get into the whole hydraulic disc aspect too. Keep up the good work. I really look forward to all your videos. I appreciate the work you do!

Richard Bull how often have you worn out a rim .most of the time it’s boredom with your old wheel and wanting something new , and I have been riding probably longer than you have been alive for.

Carbon rims arent being 'destroyed' by rim brakes unless you're using the wrong brake pads or your pushing the brajes as hard as you can down a 20% grade decsent

Jesse Compton Where I live its an issue. We have lots of fast steep roads, 2000’ + descents above the valley. We see lots of failed carbon rim brake type rims. Theres lots of crazy fast cyclists in my area. But the bigger question is why use carbon rims for anything besides racing? Im a shop mechanic in a high end shop. Ive built wheels for 30 years. I see it all. I used to machine and inspect carbon structures for satellites, spacecraft and aircraft. My life is no less valuable, as far as Im concerned! I refuse to ride on Asian made carbon ANYTHING. I can get this stuff at cost. Carbon rims arent that much lighter than alloy until you get into the aero profiles. Metals have a more desireable failure mode. My advice is: STOP paying attention to marketing BS. EVEN THOUGH its ‘job security’ for me!!

A wheel with a braking surface will always be a compromise.

@@wangdangdoodie Applying the breaking force laterally at a bad lever will always be ... actually just silly.

Hey Darren, I'll do my best, but like I stress in this video, comparing a disc brake bike to a rim brake bike is a challenge, as they are very different beasts. It's interesting, I know one of the guys in the team who runs an XR3 rim brake and his experience is very different to mine on the disc version. That said, I'll so my best to put my thoughts down on the two soon enough .

Chris Miller Cycling thank you I really appreciate your help in this matter as I’m in love with all of my Bianchi bikes

@daAnder71 who really care`s as long as people understand it but thank you so very much

Richard Carapaz blew everyones mind when he won the Gold medal 2020 Tokyo olympics on Rim brakes. 😂Everyone was like 😮

It is not complicated. You just need to spend time to learn how to use them properly.

@@bikemirror6620 BS. Disc brakes are far more difficult to maintain.

​@@rosomak8244unless you have to bleed them (which is rare) aligning and changing pads is a piece of cake.

The Rant Im a mechanic in a high end shop. I see it every day . So many riders dont know how to use the brakes they have and they think upgrading brakes makes them safer. This is what marketeers tell them! I tell people all the time, ride in a grassy field, wear some padding, try applying brakes as hard as you dare, both together and one at a time. Lock them up. Get into slides. Test the limits of traction. Mark out stopping points and practice stopping in the shortest distance possible. This kind of stuff can save lives. So what if you get a few scrapes and grass stains!

They need them to provide a "novelty" to justify higher pricing overall.

Agreed

Like I mentioned at the end of the video, I'm still pretty cynical about the purpose of why we are being pushed to disc. It's not just a simple matter of buying a new bike, it's a whole new tool shed of accessories and ... garden hoses, everyone (in the industry) wins. That Was without doubt my biggest take away from the first few months. As far as performance goes, I'm not sure that's a myth as I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks a disc bike performs at the elite level as well as a rim, like you mentioned, the skinny lads fighting for yellow and pink WILL NOT slap spinning rotors on their bikes any time soon. Pop quiz, will Richie Porte run disc at the tour?

Couldn't have (didn't) say it better myself. Great comment Rex

Utter tosh. In twenty years of using hydraulic disc systems I've never faced any of those issues. I have encountered them on friends bikes which were poorly maintained or featured inexpensive, badly designed components (including, in the early days frames that were never really designed to take discs). The vast majority of reputable disc systems on the market today are self centering, and as for bleeding, well if you can turn on a tap at your sink, you can bleed a brake system.

@@wangdangdoodie Well aren't you just the ticket then?

You will have to make the front fork far too stiff and the hub and axle far to overbuilt. You will have to make the wheel far too rigid.

So much of it depends on where you ride. For my city riding and racing I can get seasons and seasons out of carbon clinchers, but if I lived somewhere with longer descents (especially ones where you could get stuck behind a car) rim where would certainly be something I would have to pay more attention to. That said one of the great misnomers with disc brakes is the fact you will go through disc rotors quite regularly.

I’ve got 21,000 miles on Zipp carbon rim brakes. Still going strong. Ridden in mountains from time to time.

@@ChrisMillerCycling You do know that disc rotors are a cheap and easy to replace, compared to replacing the whole rim, which you need a nipple wrench, truing stand, dishing tool, spoke tension gauge, and a LOT of hour-long RU-vid videos about wheel building.

@@shannontrainer5857 Truing stand? - That's your bike up side down and a zipper cut short or just the brake calipers slightly turned to one side. Tension gauge? - Finger feel is completely adequate for a simplistic device like a bike. Dishing stand? - I guess you will have a bucket somewhere. True it. Ride it. It's not rocket science. A bike is mechanically simple unless you start to artificially introduce crap.

@@rosomak8244 But is a bike frame accurate to within 0.01 on a inch compared to a truing stand with dial gauges? No. Does fingers that is prone to human error give you a accurate numerical reading? No. Does a bucket and eyeballing it tells you whether or not your wheel is off-center compared to a calibrated device? No.

My experience is similar. And I'm wrenching on bikes since over 40 years. You got what they really are. The rest is BS and tons of people buying in to marketing claims that don't relate to reality.

You can only lock up the wheel once. There is no more breaking power required than already is there.

@@rosomak8244 Rim brakes on carbon rims are not a good mix, but hydraulic disc brakes are. Brand name discs have plenty of modulation so you don't just lock up the wheel.

I agree. I used to ride mtb's before they had disc brakes. On a mtb you NEED disc brakes and are game changer. On a roadbike though? Give me a break! The whole point on a roadbike in a road race, is to use your brakes as little as possible. My next bike frame is from a bike manufacturer that gives people the choice, so they can decide for themselves.

swites You dont ‘need’ discs for MTBs either. I rode the same technical rocky trails (in all weather)on caliper brakes,still do. Discs are a good improvement however. Theyll save your hands and arms. I use them too. Ceramic rims (nearly forgotten) abrasive pads, strong v brakes, compressionless housing and good set up will be nearly as effective as discs. And you dont ‘need’ this high end of a system. Many riders (especially roadies!) real problem is knowing how to use the their brakes, especially the front and knowing how to set up and maintain them for best operation. When disc brakes arrived on the scene, I saw riders skidding into corners much more often and ‘steering’ with brakes. This is bad technique. Heavily used steep trail in my area are often not much fun anymore without full suspension because of brake bumps. I wrench in a shop and its far more common to replace rear pads, which tells me riders dont use front brakes. You should be replacing front pads almost twice as often as the rears. Just like motor vehicles, proper braking is done 70% by fronts because of weight transfer. Technique, skill, fitness and mindset are 2/3 the challenge. The bike wont make you a better rider.But youll never hear this from the marketeers!

@@rollinrat4850 Rubbish. Excessive front braking will merely propel the rider over the bars.

mascara snake You get your weight back and down. Lower your center of gravity! Try to sit on the back tire down steep hills. (But Dont really sit on it!) Works for me! That's what dropper posts and Seat QRs are for. Any decent front brake will cause you to go over the bars if you don't know how the use them! Of course excessive braking isn't good. The rear will just skid out of control too! I'd guess you need some antilock braking on your bike! Like I've said, 1st learn how to ride a bike and keep it under control. Then worry about upgrading it. Learn how your brakes work. It will make you a faster and safer rider. Just like a car, the front brake can do the majority of the stopping. Your momentum and the brake action shifts your weight to the front wheel as you slow down.

What the companies will do is convince you to spend more money!

@@ProblemChild-xk7ix utter bs

Yeh I saw that. Looks kinda interesting

Hey Troy, certainly not arguing the modulation of the brakes (when set up correctly) are great. But grabbing a fistful of brake on disc will have the same result of grabbing a fistful of brake on rim. I suppose the reason I wanted to highlight that "myth" is I've seen guys who were super nervous descenders (me), get on a disc brake bike and think they are suddenly Vincenzo Nibali. Going down hill fast and safely is a skill learnt over many years, just want people to realise that when they point their disc brake bike down the local hill for the first time.

Chris Miller Cycling yeah that’s what I wondered.the other thing I have heard is consistent braking performance

@@ChrisMillerCycling So true. Friend of mine crashed on a local descent while trying to get a KOM, that was a turning point for him to go for disc, got the disc bike, crashed again. No comment. :)

Get compression less cabling and stiff pads. There is your magic "modulation".

Air in the tyres?! 🤯😂

Efficient on carbon rims? Nonsense.

Ron Byers that’s true but when you’re in a cycling team like Team Nero Bianchi it’s a pain when guys run different brake systems for spares during races and the collection of race wheels. So we still run rim brakes at the moment across all the XR4s.

ABE M I think you’ll find motorcycles use disc brakes.

Yes, but I can lock my wheels with my rim brakes (on alloy wheels). It's not possible to exert any greater stopping power than that. Perhaps you're talking about carbon wheels, perhaps in the wet. I wish people would clarify their comments.

And they are far more reliable in the long run. When disc brakes fail they tend to fail catastrophically.

Simple solution, don't use carbon rims

@@texrgb well now explain to me why people that use carbon wheels would want to ever switch back to a heavier, slower wheelset?

@@HolmsOnBikes I don't need to explain anything, if you use carbon with disc, but believe that there is a massive difference in weight, compared to highend rim, without disc, go for it. I would suggest you buy a new set of scales though.

@@texrgb lol so then why don't the pros use "high-end aluminum wheels? Paaahahahaha. Imagine how heavy a 50mm deep all aluminum wheel would be. Aluminum wheels are heavier, not as stiff, not as aero, and not as responsive OR handle like a set of nice, stiff, solid carbon wheels. Oh yeah, AND carbon wheels don't need to be trued nonstop like junk aluminum ones do lol

@@HolmsOnBikes are you a pro? You get you gear and kit supplied? Free... Your own team mechanic that sorts your bikes issue and problems out at no cost to you? Man, you wanna follow the marketing hipe, go ahead.

Given there is the thru axle they may be possibly more stiff when sprinting.

Good point. I was also told that there isn’t as much flex since the rotors are in the middle. Hmmm at the same time the tolerances are much smaller

Haha 😄

Attaching a fan device to your wheel doesn't make you more slippery.

@@rosomak8244 but having blocks against your wheel wont make you faster either

The maintenance factor is one that I never knew would have been such an issue

'Disc'. Disk is computer parlance.

Right, how did we make it 25 years without disc brakes on road racers😉,to be honest I didn't know i had a braking problem with rims.

Rob Tankbuster, riding rim breaks in the rain is not great in my experience.

@@jeffcoulter7181 Discs don't perform better. And the pads will be gone in no time. People claim that they are better, but no-one is actually riding in the rain that much in reality.

@@rosomak8244 I’ve had a disk brake road bike for almost 3 years and they are a quantum leap better in every regard. That’s why you can’t buy a good quality road bike without disk brakes now.