DIY | How to set up saddle fore and aft (No hands method part 2) 

Thanks for your input blue dog!

Very handy feature!

Hey 31.8mm, I agree 100%. Thanks for your input!

Thanks for your input Craig! Have you trialed some changes the position and shape of your handlebars/hoods? To reduce numbness in your hands is to try to increase the total surface area that your palm contacts your handlebars/hoods. If you're still getting numb hands after getting the saddle fore-aft correct, try working on your core strength.

Get some short reach bars- 75mm or even the specialized 65mm ones, and dial in the width (wider bars=further away), then reduce the stem if needs be and tinker with the spacers and tilt the stem up.... I'm on 75mm reach bars, a 60mm upturned stem and max spacers- 170cm and riding a "S" Vitus but my problem is my axle to saddle height is 870mm so deffo long legs/short torso(and poor flexibility!). I realise now that my ideal bike would have endurance geometry and on the lookout for one that has the smallest reach(370mm like XS) and largest stack(570mm like a M or L)

Hey Jerry, if your hands are going numb it sounds like you're still placing too much pressure on your hands and upper body. I would trial a seatpost with more setback, and/or shortening and raising your reach to the handlebars.

@@ecphysiotherapy8012 I think your right, FSA K-Force seatposts with 32mm setback will probably help.

Hey Jerry, that would probably be the least expensive option. For your next bike, consider looking at a frame with a longer top tube to better match your body's proportions.

Hey naufalap, it depends on what type of mountain biking. For example, it doesn't really matter for downhill as the rider will shift their weight around quite a bit anyway throughout the ride. This would be more applicable for riding steady state efforts, like in road cycling or cross-country style routes (forrest paths, paved paths, singletrack or doubletrack paths)

@@ecphysiotherapy8012 I'm still training for base cardio so I'm sticking to road for a while, can't afford another bike so I'm stuck with my hardtail

This may or may not help but...When I'm off road, im standing up to pedal high power WAY more often. This uses the muscles in the front of the legs more. So i put my seat further back to use more of the rear leg muscles for those long medium effort slogs. Just something to think about....2 riding positions....and a seat set back to use both sets of muscles.

Hey Ashley, thanks for supporting the channel. If you cannot pass the "No hands test", it could be one of a few things: 1) Saddle too far forwards 2) Saddle too high 3) Dysfunction in your hips and/or low back Without having a look at your movement patterns, it's difficult to know how functional you are. Since you are on the taller side it could very well mean that you need a 30mm offset seatpost, or a saddle with a longer rail. Some people need it, and some people don't. Check out a follow up video I just posted about saddle setback: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KxgONRF628Q.html

I changed my PRO STEALTH SADDLE for an SMP SADDLE which gives much more support to your body and pelvis and that way decreases the pressure on the hands. You can also move it much further backwards on the rails because they are much longer. That way you normally can pass the test.

Thanks for your support!

The video is about fore and aft position. Assuming you found your seat height then this video is for you

Hey RawrpunzelHD, thanks for checking out the video. Do you feel a lot of pressure on your hands/upper body while riding? The first thing to consider is to make sure your seat height is correct, because as you slide the saddle backwards there will be more distance from the saddle to the bottom bracket. So you may be sliding forwards on the saddle to shorten your reach to the pedals. Consider your own height/trunk length and think about whether you have enough set back on your seat post. One more thing you want to consider is the saddle. Even though it looks level, when someone sits on one it may deform and may end up being slightly nose down.

Hi lordalfa600, this type of set up for fore-aft isn't applicable to a TT set up. On a TT/triathlon bike you take out having to stabilize the wrist and elbow joint. As a result, you can place more of your upper body weight on the front end for a more aerodynamic position without sacrificing any energy holding your weight up.

Hey blue, thanks for supporting the channel. I'm located in Vancouver, BC Canada. Get in touch if you're ever in the area!

Thanks for supporting the channel Le0!

Hey Martin, knee over pedal spindle (KOPS) is a good place to start for setting up saddle set back. I think it's a popular method since it's easy to communicate how it's done and you can easily perform/replicate it for all your bikes. For a new cyclist or for someone who does not have great body awareness, KOPS is a straightforward and objective method for a great starting point. The downside is that is it does not take into account for your other body proportions possibly other biomechanical issues.

Just as EC Physio said. KOPS is only a starting point. Any fit system (Motion capture or not) or bike fitter that/who builds your final position around Knee Over Pedal Spindle or Knee over End of Crank Arm without you passing a balance test to confirm fore/aft positioning, is not helping you. Run far and fast from those systems and fitters. They are just interested in separating you from your money.

Thanks for chiming in TEFL Toulouse!

Hi koDiacc, thanks for watching the channel. It's tough to diagnose with such few details, but I'll try my best. It sounds like you have some sort of body asymmetry that may be causing you to drop your left hip with each pedal stroke. Do you have a leg length difference or left pelvis rotated forwards? It could also be a foot length difference. This type of fit issue usually goes beyond what a general DIY RU-vid video can provide. It may be worthwhile getting in with a local bike fitter to get your bike dialed in.

Thanks for the reply. No my feet should be perfectly the same length. My left hip drops a bit more because my psoas is a bit tighter there I guess. No real leg length difference I guess. I will try to get in touch with a good fitter. Thanksn

If that's the case, it sounds like your saddle might be a touch high. I would try lowering the saddle 3mm at a time until you stop dropping the left pelvis. If you've tried that and you're still not happy, another option is to shim the right cleat in the short term, with the intent to slowly wean off the shim while you work on your muscle imbalances of the hips and low back.

That’s addressing the pelvis tweak. Right. Sure I understand this but the feel feel imbalance is caused by the pelvis you think? Because my left leg feels longer? I don’t feel the pelvis tweak I only feel it in the feet

If the saddle is too high, your body will likely drop one hip to compensate for this. With your pelvis is dropping to one side, you're essentially lengthening the leg on that side, and shortening the opposite leg with each pedal stroke. That might cause you to feel like you're pedaling with the cleats in different positions. I'm thinking this because you had mentioned no leg length difference, no foot length difference, and both cleats are set up the same. Again, it's my best hypothesis given the information and without being able to assess it. Best to find a local fitter if the 2 options I had mentioned earlier don't work out. Good luck!

Yes indeed :D

From the literature (link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-020-01363-z), you're quite right about pressure on the perennial soft tissue. According to the article, it's best to use a no-nosed saddle, stand up every 10min, or use a recumbent style bike. For a lot of road cyclists, using a recumbent is not allowed in gran fondos/sportives, races etc and using a no-nosed saddle may not be very good as there is less stability on the saddle. Standing every 10 min may be a realistic option. Issues with these studies is there's generally no control for whether the bike/saddle was properly sized/fitted. Anecdotally though, a lot of saddle related issues can be alleviated with a good bike fit. There are loads of saddle options to find one that causes the least amount of pressure. Check out saddle companies like ISM and SQLabs. When sitting on the saddle, the pressure should be on the ishial tuberosities/ischial ramus and not so much on the perineum/soft tissue.

@@ecphysiotherapy8012 Wrong on the bike fit. You are still working with a faulty paradigm so the best one can hope for is reduction. And as I have said 1000s of times over the past 21 years: "Congratulations! You went from smoking two packs a day to a pack a day. But you are still smoking a pack a day!" Wrong on the stability except for on very steep windy descents. Sold 40,000+ saddles never had anyone say they went down on our seat. Maybe with someone else's but not on Spongy Wonder. We sell out seats one at a time and I have spoken and back and forth emailed with 10,000s. It's very basic: every horned or nosed saddle will give you damage. I know about ISM - we sell a tonne to riders who bought their product. Appreciate your notes but look - no one has spoken with more riders and doctors, etc., etc. Gynecologists, Urologists, Neurologist who know their stuff simply don't don't recommend a traditional or "modified" traditional (because that is what they are) to anyone. But they recommend the Spongy Wonder. And they ride it themselves. These are the facts.

Dear Jeff, a lot of words. To me, when it comes to saddles.... its all about trial and error.

@@dvdp4513 Sorry but that is incorrect. It is about the pressure points. In other words it is about where pressure is applied to your body. If pressure is applied on the 'junk', prostate, tailbone and perineum damage is caused. This should be obvious to anyone. We have a 2 x4 test. We take ten inches of 2 x 4 and round of two near edges and put it up on edge. We invite people to sit on it and in 21 years no one has agreed. You see people instantly recognize that sitting on such an object will put pressure where they don't want it and yet they do more or less the same riding a single platform seat. I am sorry but you simply do not know what you are talking about.

@@jeffreyhdixon so glad you do. I’m only stating that in search for a nice ride, you need to be lucky not to have to buy lots of saddles. I find a whole lot of comfort in my Fizik with a hole. Have a nice day.

The tib ant still bugging you Martin? Could it be anterior ankle impingement? Have you already had a fitter look at your position and a therapist to provide some more insight into rehabbing that region?

@@ecphysiotherapy8012 yes it is. Could it be foam rolling and stretching, that is the cause? It always gets worse after that? I will read about the tibialis ant imp, i have had two bike fits.

If foam rolling and stretching isn't helping, then you'll need to figure out what is causing it to stay tight and overworked. Perhaps a local physiotherapist may be able to provide more insight after a biomechanical assessment. The tib ant issue could likely be a symptom of something else happening in the kinetic chain.

Yes knee loading is something to tune into for sure. In general, the more aft the saddle, the more hamstrings load. And the more fore the saddle, the more quads load.