Thomas, I'm an electrical engineer and a music lover so here's how I see things. First and foremost CABLES DO NOT IMPROVE SOUND. The only degrade sound. And this is where cables make a difference. In what they degrade. There's 3 main characteristics of a cable: resistance, capacitance and inductance. There's a few more but they matter less and less. Without getting to technical you want all 3 parameters to be as low as possible, but that is physically imposibile. If you lover 2, the third will increase having a detrimental effect on certain aspects of the frequencies. If you want bass you need low resistance - ticker wire. A 18AWG cable will have less bass than a 10AWG cable. No doubt about that. But then we get into psychoacoustics - how our brain interprets sound. You see, when there's less bass we perceive to hear more detail and highs. And vice-versa with more bass we perceive less detail and highs. You are right in having 3 set of cables, one for bass, one neutral and one for highs to compensate for electronics/speakers. Do you need to spend hundreds, maybe thousands?? Definitely no. I have a pair of speakers that cost me £1500. If i get a set of cables that cost £500 I will have a much much smaller improvement in sound than replacing my speakers with a pair that cost £2000 and keeping my cheap 12 awg copper cables. So yes, cables make a tiny difference, but I would much rather spend that money in better speakers or electronics and getting a bigger return on my investment. Power cables on powerful amplifiers need to be shielded, not to clean the power to the amp but to prevent it from interfering with the interconnects. As for usb cables the signal either passes or it doesn't. The difference is in noise isolation between the 2 devices. Namely how the cable is shielded. In short, certain electronics will sound worse if the shielding is connected at both ends, hence connecting the 2 ground planes of the 2 devices. That is why I prefer unshielded. Use shielded only if your home is severely affected by RFI/EMI. And then you have the dodgy electronics producers (looking at you British brands) which intentionally tweak their products to work better with certain cables by making their products very sensible to impedance and/or capacitance.
Nicely written.The only thing that makes me go hmm and I can never explain it to someone who don't believe in cables is the measurements. Right now, there is this null test video going around and non cable believers are using that as the absolute truth.
@Sorin G : Yours is one of the best and better reasoned comments about cables I've read in many, many time. For me the very question "Do you BELIEVE in cables?" is pure non sense. I believe in cables the same way I can believe in parrots. This is not a matter of FAITH, but a matter of FACTS. So, thank you for explaining those facts as clear as you have done.
Thomas & Stereo I've briefly looked at the null test and it is valid for what it's designed to do. But that does not encompass all that can influence audio sound. Like saying the thermometer displays 20C so I must dress for 20C. What the thermometer does not show is wind chill and humidity. 20C in sunshine is t shirt and beach time. But if it's windy and the humidity is 85% you better put a worm coat on.
Great comment . Resistance, capacitance, inductance, group delay(part of the others), shielding, and their stability over frequency and power/amplitude. There are the questions of how long a run? and, what power are your handling? That's all there is at those frequencies. Which is a lot. But there's the question of human perception and is there even a reality outside of it, which cannot be answered definitely. In the way physicists tell us that color is simply a construct of your eyes and brain. In reality there is just a different energy/frequency of photon. Agree that on normal power and length runs money is MUCH better spent elsewhere beyond mid level with enough gauge. But at Thomas' level of equipment, there is no reason to skimp in a big way, even just for the look. Yes a cable can knock down treble or something and it can be perceived as an improvement, but that is a VERY difficult way to tweak a system.
Good cable do make difference. But are they necessarily expensive? For audio, probably not. From what I have learnt and what I know from people. 300-500 dollars (depends on profit margin and length etc) is the maximum amount to spend on a single cable for speakers. 200 dollars is probably the max for interconnects. There are many companies make shit cables to color the sound. Also the problem is the best cables probably don't sound the best on particular systems. Most of the time they make speakers to very revealing and use cables, amplifiers to calm the treble down. So that's different from building everything in the chain objectively and make it perfect. It probably won't sound pleasing. But personally I would rather to learn to like the objectively better sound than buying expensive shit.
I substituted high-quality, high-dollar interconnects for the lamp cord on my bedside lamp. It was like a veil was lifted. The light was no longer harsh and glaring.
Last year, I thought it was worth $10 to find out if cables could make my music system sound better. That first $10 interconnect worked, and cables have cost me about $400 since. Wish I had caught on years ago.
I agree. In theory one good cable is as good as another but all wires have three properties that we must consider and that is that they are affected by resistance, capacitance and inductance. Variations in the three properties cause coloration just like crossover components do. I had a HK amp with factory installed chrome plated brass jumpers bridging my pre out amp in and it sounded congested. I swapped it with good copper cable and it sounded musical. Now if I had money to burn 10K interconnects will do for cosmetic reasons. But all three properties being equal a 20 dollar cable and a 20k cable will not sound any different.
My experience is like this. Speaker cables: as decent full copper cables as possible was a major improvement €9,- per meter. Had an option for audioquest speaker cables but they actually had a negative effect for me. Some decent analog signal interconnects between the hardware made a difference. Any digital signal: (yes i've seen optical goldplated cables as claimed by the manufacturer), used several different brands from low to for me high range price (up to €75,- per cable) and didn't hear any change. Went for build and feel quality for digital cables so not cheap but certainly not expensive. The biggest accidental improvement I ever had was when I bought a new sofa. Just saying.
I've worked as a sound engineer in many top recording studios... if the music isn't recorded with expensive cables then it won't make a difference coming out of your amp. During the recording process the audio goes threw miles of cables in consoles, outboard gear and much more. Also the signal of a microphone before the pre amp is so low that the mic XLR would be the most important cable in the signal chain. Most recording studios use digiflex or mogami cables and record all the music you listen to... If they don't use audiophile cables you don't have to either... Mastering studios don't even spends ridiculous sums on cables... The music you are playing has travelled threw thousands of meters of shitty cables at some point in its creation but somehow the cable you are using at home makes a difference :-) In any case :-) 100% Snake Oil :-)
I really appreciate you taking the time to explain in detail and its great to have a different perspective. I see it differently though. Meaning what is recorded in a studio one thing. What is recorded in a studio is one step of the chain and there is a final output from that process. A cd will sound different in different systems because of different amps, preamps, cables and so forth. The fact that a studio use only decent quality cable for recording does not mean that using different cables in a stereo system will all sound the same. Also, a studio is a business and there is the cost vs return factor to consider. Maybe using better cables will improve recording by 2% and from a cost perspective, it makes no sense. I don't know but just trying to think of different possibilities. Using cable will not enhance sound beyond what is recorded in a studio, that is not possible. However, it might sound 'better' than comparing to another cable. I really see it as 2 different things. Is it possible that some studio out there might record using higher quality gear and that is why there is different quality from different studio? I don't know as I am not a sound engineer. What I do know, and as I explain in my video, regardless all the science and logic, is what I hear at the end of the day and I sadly do hear a difference. I wished I do not so I can save all the stupid money I spend on cable.
Lets note that using different "gear" will give different results, but the funny thing in audio is there is no "right" answer. Everything is left to the listener, so in the end there is no way to accurately know what the recording is "SUPPOSED" to sound like. :-) I've done many blind A-B tests in studio with Dynaudio, Genelec and Totem speakers with different cables and no obvious results. It sounds to me that you have a condition many of us have in the recording/studio industry called "G.A.S." Gear Aquisition Syndrome :-) We all love shinny gear with nice military grade buttons and cables thicker than my thighs however I can assure with absolute certainty that spending lots of money on cables or interconnects would be better spent on speakers, amp or a heafty donations to your favorite charity or basically anything else :-) Best of luck, nice videos :-)
Haha, I love it, G.A.S. You absolutely nailed it and I call it a disease. I don't mean it in a sarcastic way because in the chinese audio, we use the term being poisoned. I also am not blind to the absurdity of spending stupid amount on cables and that is why I call it a disease. I appreciate how professional you are in your comments. I 100% agree spend money on the amp, preamp, speaker and I always try to convince my audiophile friends too. Although I believe in cables, I am not excited about it, I will have friends lend me $1000+ cables and they usually sit there at my place for a while before i try them while anything else , like dac, amps I borrow, I test it on the same day I get it. I think the least money should be spend on cables.
Well said. So few people have this picture. And this is the very reason why I seek out well recorded music regardless of medium; like vinyl , CD, SACD, or digital downloads.
Speaker cables and interconnects are worth spending some money on. They most certainly make a difference. I have 40 years of hearing the differences. They can be fairly subtle but when you are hearing new instruments or an additional drummer or a formerly harsh sound is now sweet on a track you have listened to maybe 1000 times on various system then it is worth some money. I recently discovered Ringo's faint conga solo on 'A Day in The Life' after changing to a QED Reference Audio 40 interconnect. In my experience I spend 10% of my total cost on cables. A fine cable is a thing of beauty...
Cables do have capacitance and inductance, so they can in theory change or color the sound, however playing with lenght and gauge is probably all that's needed to get the sound you want.
I upgraded my old speaker cables to AudioQuest Cinnamon's. There was an improvement with the AQ cables. The AQ cables are 17 gauge so as a comparison, I bought a pair of $50 12 gauge cables from Amazon and they sounded even better. For my test, the gauge made more difference than the cost.
I didn't believe in cables until I tried some transparent audio speaker cables with my speakers. It was a significant change from the hardware store cables I was using!
I think the main point put forward here is great, whether you think cables make a difference, and whether you can hear the different, most of the conversation is about whether you should spend the money, or is the difference you hear worth the cost. If you don't hear it, then no. If you hear it, then maybe. If it brings you joy and doesn't cause you problems, then yes.
Your conclusion says it all. Also, it depends on the resolution of the system. Thx Thomas. Oh, I was a non believer since that trend entered the market...
To Each His Own! Funny I came across this- did this test with 6 friends between (in short) a set of $50 cables & speaker wire vs my friends set ($500) and yep, no one could hear any difference. But that's not the point with hobbies - its nice to know you have what you think is the "best" so, whatever makes someone happy is what's important. Sometimes the slightest "spec" improvement makes you feel warm & fuzzy : ) Good video -
The reason why you don't hear a difference is because there is no difference in that test. Most cables sound the same, if I were there, I would have chosen a specific set of cables that have completely sound characteristics. Btw, I fail AB test with cables too so that is why I completely understand where you are coming from.
I was sure it was snake oil I got into this before there was any debate and I was sure it was BS. So I used my cheap monster cables for years. I upgraded my power amp years latter and thought I want nice looking cables also so I went shopping and said dam to spendy so I decided to build a pair. I bought high end connectors all gold platted awesome covers and crimped with a really good crimper and bought mid priced I think 10 or 12 gage speaker wire from one of the do it your self places, And built my cables. They are beautiful. I plugged them in and fired up my system and wow it sounded like shit. I was sure I had them reversed or a short or something. Polarity was fine I got my meter out checked continuity no shorts all was well, played with them and tried to find fault nothing, they were built right. I rebuilt the monster cables with the new connects that I had used for years and they sounded great. "HERE IS THE RUB" The reason people don't want to here this. I spent a lot of money on my system Amp, speakers, preamp,sorce etc I don't want to spend a $1000 on fu@king cables and I don't think others want to either. Now if you make a video on what to use to build my own really decent cables or a buyers guide range of prebuilt cables say from $150 to say $350 cables that is one video I would love to watch.
The intend of the video is really to encourage people to have an open mind about it. I always buy used so I end up paying $150 to $300 a pair and their mrsp price are usually $800 to $1k. I really don't like spending on cables even though I believe in them because they give the least return for the money. It's hard to tell people what cables to spend on as it all depends on system synergy. Having said all that, a big thank you for sharing your experience and hopefully it will encourage others to have an open mind about it.
The reason I like to buy cables in the $50 to $200 range is because they are in general better made. The second reason is because they look cool. If you have spent thousands of dollars on your hifi system you really don't mind spending a little on cables even if it's just for looks or ease of mind. ...and those who are buying the super exotic gear just buy the most expensive cable because $3000 does not matter to them, they're rich!
I can understand people not being able to tell the difference with 2-channels of a short cables but when one has got 9-channels (Atmos) of various lengths, that is when one is likely to pick up on all the radio frequencies. After I changed all my cheap unshielded cables to expensive shielded cables, not only can I binge watch my movies but more importantly I can listen to my 2-channel music without any interference whatsoever, so in my case it's not so much about expensive cables but rather having good shielded ones.
I agree; there is a point where quality of material starts to come in, as well as termination quality. So even if you like to stay at an affordable level, using well made but down-to-earth plugs and nice cable from companies like Belden and Mogami can give very satisfying results.
Just do the double blind test, shouldn't take you more than 15 minutes. All this talk about "hearing a difference" and "rejecting the science" sounds pretty shady, like a man convincing himself he wasn't conned. I have never seen anyone actually demonstrating or proving they hear a difference, how weird, because I can hardly think of a simpler experiment than this.
Anyone who ever test cables will know cable testing is not a 15 min test. Just like any body who is a smoker will know its so good to have a cigarette after a meal, anybody who don't smoke will not 'get it'. As i mentioned, 20 to 30% of the cables I tried I can past the test 100% of the time. The rest, my ears are not that good. I only end up keeping 20% of the cables I tried. Regarding ABX testing, see below. There is no point moving the conversation forward because we will end up disagreeing and it will be just a back and forth debating with no end. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-cy2MsscuBnM.html
I didn't know nor believe that cables could make a difference in my initial years of obsession with music. I own multiple audio components like the Primare i35, Hegel H80 & Marantz PM8005 integrated amps driving KEF R300 & Dynaudio Evoke 50. I thought I'd try out a couple of quality cables which wouldn't cost a bomb and I was amazed to hear some differences. The easiest thing I could pick up on is like cymbal sounds, highs sounding better with BJC Belden cables versus chord carnival silverscreen cable that I was using for years and now the chord's been sitting in a drawer. Even my wife who cares less for all things audio though she does like music to some extent could tell it sounded somewhat different and better. So I'm convinced cables do matter and if it works for you that's all that matters. Its no point debating and arguing about it and trying to get others to prove their point.
The problem with blind tests is they're really hard to do. Practicalities aside, it's mentally fatiguing and hard to recall sections of music that quickly with the required accuracy. It can only really work with something like foobar where you can switch between two files instantly.
It’s nice to see at least many of you have tried and are convinced cables make a difference in the sound. most audiophiles have known this for many years. For those of you who can’t get past the technical aspects maybe think about it this way. of course we know there is technical and electrical parameters that play a factor, and yes you can even play with some of these parameters and hear differences in the sound higher capacitance to lower inductance or another combination but which one provides the best sound is impossible to determine. Just like audio gear you can’t look at specification and know what it’s going to sound like. Specifications are virtually meaningless in audio , you simply have to listen. Same goes for cables, you simply have to try different cables in each part of your system that provides the most detail and best sonic improvement in that part of the chain of your system. There is no best or perfect cables for every system only the best that sound right in your system.
Watch "The British Audiophile" on cables. How much resistance does a 10ft cable have? There are charts on this. Imperceptible difference. The frequency of audio is just too low. You have been listening to Bill Low for too long. Listen to Gene Dellasala instead.
I have two patent pending devices that perform better than any cable, they work at the subatomic level (many call audiophile Voodoo) hehehe! Yeah, no need to buy ultra expensive cables. I agree with the law of diminishing returns.
actually no. It's not the diminishing return. It's that objectively best cables may not sound very pleasing in some systems. So that's where is the room for cables that are expensive but objectively shit.
True, but the best connections are the bare wire itself. The more connections or joints from the bare wire to Spade lug or RCA or banana plug create a change capacitance and resistance which will change the sound of the audio. So the best connector is none at all.
@@MS-np6hv You'll need to have your gear suspended in a perfect vacuum, with cables strictly separated between them. Not too practical solution, I'm affraid.
To me the difference that cables make in sound is not up to their price,but up to their material,gauge,lenght,connectors.I have tried expensive Atlas cable versus a cable one third of its price and i liked the cheap ones.I've had situations that i liked expensive QED cables as well.If you are planning to buy an expensive cable you better have a return option with them,because you might not like their sound at all.
Many people don't believe there is a difference in cables but those people have usually not tried. I did blind listening tests with non-audiophile friends and they correctly picked the differences every time. No amount of theoretical explanation counts, just do the experiment before you make up your mind. The only way to not hear a difference is if you have a very unrevealing system or bad hearing.
You are lucky to have nice friends. I made some ic with silver wires and was very interested to hear the difference in sonic qualities. Gave them to two friends and was hoping for some feedback, whether good or bad didn't matter, I just wanted some info on what they heard. The first friend just said the cables are not as good as his branded ones and that was all. The second one threw them into the bin because it's a diy job and he only uses branded stuff.
Ah, we try anything, regardless of price or look. For us, it's the synergy we are looking for. More expensive does not mean it's the most synergistic cable.
For me the problem is in words "when listening it makes difference" . I am convinced it should . Every cable has unique length, resistance of core, resistance of connection , capacity, inductance and it's own "skin effect" level. Playing with those values we achieve hundreds of combinations which impact our driving amplifier characteristic and speaker timbre which unfortunately is also unique. Hardest is to recognize if difference is achievement up or down. I am afraid that factory brand and price paid may play decisive role to answer which is better. My best sounding speaker cable was the one regained from old iron power supply - made of tiny bronze spirals winded around cotton strips. Standard in mobile house power 1950ties due to fire resistance and flexibility. No other kind found in electrical shops those days before audio :). I suspect today it is really hard to do same again. Today I do my interconnections DIY bearing in mind factors playing role like capacity shielding and length and I may say that such cables are far behind other my more serious considerations. On other hand I understand all those who try to make upgrade in situation when only cables are allowed to be played with without risk of serious damage.
I actually have one of those cables I think made from the power cord of old rice cookers. Sounds pretty good actually. My friend has made countless DIY cables and he has very good result with many of them.
Ah, my kind of topic! I like your channel and your honesty Thomas! I used to be a skeptic, but I gave it a try and discovered a new arena of sonic excellence in "Any" cable, including power cables. Once, I discovered this, I expanded and used my 30 + years as an electronics engineer to find that Elusive "Grail" in audio. At first, I discovered methods and materials that were inexpensive to create sonically perfect sounding cables, but this wasn't enough for me. After many alternative cable designs, I realized that no matter what electronic gear or speakers were used, there was something missing! I then knew I was searching for the Audio Grail! About a year ago, I accidentally stumble on a specific technology, at first I was in disbelief. But after a few weeks I realized just how much potential this discovery would unveil. After a few months, I created devices that converted that ordinary semiconductor sound to tubelike sound (but with perfection). I then went back to the cable designs and adjusted the sonic purities to create what my ears wanted to hear. Everyone has their own final preference when it comes to audio dynamics, richness, fluidness etc... YES, cables make a significant difference. Each has its own sound signature. Anyways, I have 2 patent pending devices that I hope to find interested companies to license, then this technology can be released. When I get a first deal contract, I can then perhaps send you prototype samples to review? Would you be interested? thanks!
I made my own cables with average quality wire and banana plugs. I watched and listened to Pink Floyd the wall blue ray. Parts of it brought tears to my eyes. It's all about the enjoyment you get from your setup not how rich you are.
Hi Thomas, In a previous reaction I shared my experience in replacing poor quality speaker cables with better ones... it was a matter of turning a poor outcome into a satisfying sound. Totday I replaced a basic rca interconnect with the entry-level rca interconnect from c-chord on my 2nd system (Bluesound node 2i, XTZ Edge A2-300 amp, Monitor Audio Silver RX1 bookshelf speakers, SONY active 130W sub SA-WMS815). I didn’t expect much improvement... because I already used a short interconnect... which performs really good on top recordings...but whooooooooow! Recordings I thought to be inferior quality suddenly revealed open highs... The entry-level interconnects from c-Chord (50€ for 0,5m or 60€ for 1m) is a perfect cable for testing if better interconnects can make a difference on a system. Keep up the good work Thomas! Dago
Yes. Cables absolutely make a difference. For example, when I tried listening to my system with NO cables it sounded like shit. But the moment I added cables it sounded great.
As a rule of thumb it seems that 5% to 10% of a stereo's value is well spent on good matching cables. I agree with some of the viewers that the returns on what more expensive cables deliver in sound quality will yield diminishing returns the more you invest. However, cables that cost over a thousand dollars are best paired with a system in the tens of thousands of dollars per component.
Although I believe in cables, I think it's mark up is a bit too much. So that is why I am the least excited with cables. It's one of those things where I have to spent because I hear the difference but I really don't like to. Recently I came across a cheap DIY cable that I prefered over the expensive cables I have which I will do a video someday. Thanks for all your comments btw.
Thomas, I agree with you! Ultra high end cables are just way too expensive! This is what motivated me to create special devices that are much more superior! 2 patent pending technologies, cost to produce each device is $20 vs a $50,000 cable!
Hi Thomas have recently got the Mogami W2804 Neglex 3 Rca cable, earlier was using Supra Rca with my kef R3 with Parasound amp.. The mogami’s sound thin somehow is it me..
I had my speakers hooked up with zip cord electric cables and believed cables didn’t matter. A friend brought over a set of nice cables and we hooked them up on my equipment. I heard a definitive improvement. I went out, bought some nice intermediate speaker cables, interconnects for my turntable and a good one for my subwoofer. I am very happy with the improvement in my setup. Everyone is free to believe whatever they want but I would suggest you give good cables a try. You never know, you may change your mind like I did.
audiophiles don't need subwoofers,no well recorded music was recorded with bass down as low as 20hz,your problem was the zip cord you used was to thin in guage,and probably too long.
placebo effect. The physics is unyielding; copper has a fixed resisttivity, the only way to improve the sound is to use short cables and a generous cross-sectinal area
Thomas, Please advise which is better ported or sealed subwoofers for music? Would regular 16G cable work? What is your honest opinion on SVS equipment value for money? Thanks
For music, I prefer sealed subs. It is faster and tighter. For a sub, you would need a coaxial cable, I think rated at 75ohm. (have to double check). SVS are well know for producing great quality product at a good price.
Of course cables make a difference but, they are the last thing you should worry about. First, you should get good speakers, then an amp that mates well with the Speakers. 2nd, get a good source. Last, get some cables that you feel work in the system (without spending too much). Cables will not radically change anything. If you want better sound, you need to upgrade your speakers or amplifier. This is what I found by experience.
So, I am like your person #3 example. I bought all Audioquest cables in the Red colour jacket without the 72 volt battery, except for my dual subwoofer trigger line with is green. The stock male to male mono phono line was too long anyways as tidiness justification. Astetic s was the biggest reason. I even bi-wired my my speakers with Rocket 33s modified with sixteen WBT expanding banana plugs for harder bite at the Jack's. I do crave the Nordost Frey 2 (purple) and prefer the sound of Cardas Parsec speaker cables, but, don't like the plugs of Nodost speaker cables, and don't like the color of the Parsec (navy blue). I'm considering upgrading the speaker cables first, but, maybe Kimber for those since I am very sold on the plug bite over purple color. Stereo is art to me, as to balance a combination of sight and sound.
Hey Thomas, what are your views on bi-wiring with Polk Lsim vs single runs with stock jumper? Did you get a chance to experiment when you had the 707's?
I have tried some that does and I have come across some that don't. For example, these thin solid core speaker cables from Totem that I just got right now with the Kinplay does not.
@@ThomasAndStereo thanks. how about in general -- do solid core cables roll off the highs? reason I asked is because you have tons of experience with lots of cables and I recently tried to use Solid Romex 12awg and while the definition and layering is very much improved, it appears both bass and treble went down a tad. I dont have much resources to play with cables so I wanted to know what is the safest choice but good enough. are semi stranded (multiple 23awg solid cores) like audioquest's cheapest cable be (x-2) a safe bet?
I don't have much with solid core because I tried a few and did not like the sound. Thinking back, I guess you are right that they tend to roll off the highs. I have to ask my other friend who has tons of cables to get his take.
The reason pepole eventually discover cables can make a difference , is because on a revealing system it can be very obvious. I get tired of people saying a cable can be measured, well so can an amplifier and if all an amp dose is amplify the volume of a sign wave then all amps sound the same if the specs are the same ? Science is flawed. Belive me it is imperfect. Cables can affect so many aspects, that can impact the signal. I am 53 years old and have lashed togather a lot of components with a lot of different cables of all architecture. Copper, silver, silver plated copper, tinted copper , in Teflon , PVC and dielectric foam . Stranded, solid core. And let's forget about conectors. And what I can tell you is ,no cable will revioce your whole system, but the right cables bring out the voice of a carefully matched system. Cables are the last purchase after everything else , they are the the last purchase. If you buy your stereo components at Best buy then high end cables don't make much sense , keep the whole of the system in perspective. Spend 3x what you can afford on the best speakers and build your system up the chain to the source, then think cables. The speakers will dictate your amp and from there move to the source, if it all jives then accentuate with the right cables.
Jeff Harper well said Jeff. It is frustrating to read so many of these articles or video post against the cables making a difference. It surprises me how few true audiophiles help in debating this subject and help those wanting to get the best sound in their systems to understand that these theory’s by those who simply are spatting so called technical jargon is not the definitive truth. We need to help those understand to try cables themselves and don’t let someone convince you it’s all BS. Yes we will not convince many electrical engineers they simply have it in there heads that the electrical measurements determine what everyone will hear. But it’s those who are simply trying to get the best sound from their systems to try cables and let the sound and their ears make be the judge.
It's the cheap brass/iron/nickel connector that most signal loss occurs (Yes that shiny connect is fake as hell with a sugar coated gold finish/nickel finish, tellurium copper connectors are the way to go.). Follow the IACS standard for conductivity.
It’s not that cables make it better it’s the fact they can effect change in the information traveling through them. Capacitance, resistance, skin effect etc. Find a set that the change made is agreeable with you. Until then just use 12 gauge speaker wire and some fairly decent rca cables. More money does not equal better sound.
More money does not equal to better sound. It's all about synergy with your current setup. Recently I came across a DIY interconnect made by someone and it cost $175, I did an AB test against a $3k interconnect and prefered the DIY. It was however paired with a bright speaker and in that case, it works. Having said that, the speaker cable I ended up keeping, the Yter , (which they use in ther sonus faber internal speaker wiring) happens to be the most expensive.
The only one I tried is audio sensibility, the one I had was so so only. Best bang for the buck are some of the high end DIY cable I got my hands on. Else, the safe bet is transparent super.
@@ThomasAndStereo Have you heard Transparent Music Wave MM2, now discontinued? Can be had for $600 used. I once heard System Audio Pandion speakers sounding superb. I asked the vendor about cables and he said Kimber Select 6063 or 6065, cannot remember exactly. Cables were $11000 and the Pandion bookshelf $5000
The only very expensive cables I have heard are Transparent reference 5. Those I spent a bit of time with it. I did hear way more expensive maybe even $100k , as those are the opus and opus magnum transparent but I have no idea how they sound though. I think it's a bit crazy though.
ok, as a home speaker builder, and audiophile, i have built many speakers from the top manufacturers (crazy danish stuff) and have some speakers right now that could rival whatever. I have had studio people walk in and listen and be shocked at how they just hear the music. That being said, check out the speaker cables inside your 50k+ speakers. What are they and what to manufacturers use? That is what i use for my speaker runs. I keep them 8ft-9ft and braid if i bi-wire but, if you look in your speaker cabinet, you will find a high quality copper or copper coated with silver solid or braided cable, with minimal insulation and screw connections. i personally prefer silver coated copper for the highs, but thats me. Again, check the insides of your highest end speaker possible, and you will not find any crazy connectors or ridiculous thick anything. run that from your amp to your speakers and you will see. drop that thick junk. 14 gauge fo 8-10 ft runs. again, if you can match what your speaker has, golden!
If you do not believe, check out inside a b&w, wilson audio, dynaudio, vandersteen, sony, vapor, vivaldi, kef, or whomever... what do they hook up their drivers with??????
Sure, its a well known thing but for me that is 2 separate issue because if a speaker cable does change the sound, then it is irrelevant what is used inside. At the end of the day, after all the theory, it's what the final output that matters.
I've been in the pro AV industry for about 45yrs, I've done stadiums, theaters, clubs, and yes, high end home audio. This thread is really entertaining, hilarious actually. With all do respect, if anyone would like to bring their check book, or cash, to the Pittsburgh PA area, let's have some fun !!! I'm betting you can't hear a difference between 12ga lamp cord and 500$ per foot 8ga oxygen free fine strand extra virgin olive oil infused 24karat gold plated bs....I'll put coat hangers in there and you won't know it 😀 the gauge is all that matters. So what about signal cables ? If it's digital there is no difference at all. If it's analog it should be balanced, done. I can set up mono blocks with jbl studio monitors right here in my shop 🙉 jmho
Your a PRO (NOT AUDIOPHILE HOME GEAR!!) AUDIO GUY!!!! THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE TO BE HAD FOR P.A.(not Pennsylvania , lol!) GEAR!!!!! SHIT IS BLAND SOUNDING, STERILE, DARK SOUNDING, UNREFINED (did I mention grainy and forward sounding!??) EQUIPMENT YOU'RE USING, THAT'S MADE TO PLAY LOOOOOOOUD! IM GAME FOR $100,000!! otherwise don't waste MY time!! OH! And we get to use MY GEAR of choice, AND we go out on the street and get 20 rando civilians to see if they can hear a difference! IF more than 30% of them hear a difference, YOU LOSE!! Sure! LET ME KNOW!! we'll use holding firm for the cash verified first!!! LET'S GET READY TO RUUUMMMBLEEE! 😎😁👍
FTR. I figure over 45 years. ANY OLD GUY who worked in and around concert and club Pro systems for that long HAS LOST the TOP PART of their hearing!! 100%% FACT! Note to all ..
Thomas, "digital cables" e.g. USB and Ethernet do not pass 0s and 1s, they pass voltage swings as _analog square waves._ These analog square waves are susceptible to the impact EMI, RF, lack of galvanic isolation, low-impedance and high-impedance AC leakage currents (and the harmonics thereof), and clock phase noise. This is why differences between different digital cables and other digital interfaces e.g. Ethernet switches, routers, fiber media convertors, and the power supplies that power these interfaces, etc, are audible.
I use Cat7 or Cat8 ethernet cables as loudspeaker cables. They must be made of very pure copper, I am sure. They are all double shielded, what I consider very important for a speaker cable. Ethernet cables have 8 lines, I twist and braid together all of them after removing the insulation and use the whole cable for a single pole connection (four cables for stereo). I found those better which has a single core by line vs the multicore ones. Basically, the cable for one set cost me roughly as much as a set of good quality banana plugs. What about sound quality? They are unbeatable in my view as speaker cables. I try to find something that is better, but I did not find it so far.
I am a novice wanna-be audiophile and I try to do my research before I buy . . though what I read is anything but clear on what is the best choices. I bought a pair of subwoofers for $1300. After debating on cables, I decided to order those sold by the subwoofer manufacturer for almost $100 for the pair. I figured, why pay $1300 for Subs and then limit their sound with $30 cables? So, not scientific way to make the decision, but I am enjoying the sound.
A fundamental difference between anything used in a studio, and home audio setup, is the studio can produce masterworks with humble equipment, because the mixing engineer controls what the desired sound will be, and often inherent imperfections from old gear add desirable elements to the final recording. Flagrant noise, hum, etc. are quickly dealt with, then it's all about the ears, balance and mixing boards, not whether some cable imparts some enhancement to a dream of a nuance. At home, it becomes a function of reproduction, not production. Any overt signal issues like hum or wow or flutter have audible levels, and methods of remedy; once one reaches the next level, of problem-free sound, advancing any notions of somehow improving already faithful reproduction becomes very dubious. It is further clouded when basic electronic elements are supposedly imbued with the ability to enhance increasingly subtle, esoteric nuances like "space, coloration, breath, atmosphere," etc. One Rule for separating Snake oil from the bathwater might be that NO different passive equipment connector or cable can possibly enhance or improve beyond what is already within the original recording - a signal is either conveyed perfectly, with audible artifacts, or with artifacts below the threshold of detection. When each next new thing magically proclaims its ability to find ever-new somethings in ten or twenty or forty year old vinyl, one should be skeptical, that the original recordings were so prescient as to capture information beyond the capabilities of that era to such an extent. Just as likely, the improvements should be revealing issues no one could catch way back then. In addition, if blind testing consistently can differentiate between two (anything), it alone cannot say which of the two is more accurate without other testing, even if the tests find a consensus listener preference for one. There are reasons why audio depends on engineers - it is largely a science, not an art, at least until the design aesthetics of lush, shiny equipment in the final production phase enters the picture. Wealthy patrons prefer to show off very impressive, sculptural statements for peacocking, and not just old, eccentric wads of cables and homely circuit boards.
Ok here is what your missing people. Cable design and materials used effect the sound. You can measure every parameter and analyze it all you want but it’s impossible to know completely how it will ultimately sound. You simply have to try different cables and in each part of the chain of the system to find the best sounding cables for that part of the system. A phono cable has different requirements ( since it’s a very low level signal coming from a phono cartridge ) than that of a interconnect between amp and preamplifier or digital. You simply have to try different cables. The challenge is determining when it’s an improvement and complementary in sound to that source.
I agree that a 20,000 dollars cable sound better than 20 dollars cable and I respect you opinion but the line between perfection and insanity is very thin and and most people do not realize when they cross that line. If someone is incredibly rich then it doesn't matter because they just look to spend money. My question is does 20,000 dollars cable sound 1000% better than 20 dollars cable, I will take it even if sounds 50% better, also how many people can really notice the difference?
When you are looking at $20k cables, my opinion is that you can't look at it as is it x% better? It's either a 0% or 100% difference for someone willing to pay that kind of crazy money. Meaning, either it's something he loves or don't. I personally think cable gives the less return and one should spend the money elsewhere to give the most return.
No question in my experience that cables make a significant difference. Many cables can kill the sound, some let it shine through. But, I refuse to pay big money for commercial cables, as I believe a decent set can be produced DIY. Power cables also matter. You bring out a good point, that if you are willing to go through the hassle of selling then buying used commercial cables is likely a good approach.
Great information! My only feedback is to work on the audio levels in your reviews. I spent most of the time chasing my volume dial to either turn way up, or turn way down my volume to be able to hear what you were saying.
Hi, I do agree with you, cables do make a difference? But I have a question for you? Many Critics use EQ and cheap cables., what is your opinion about Equalzer? I do use it to some degree in Gadgets, and home theatre, but not on CD stereo.
I don't use equalizer but I am pro-equalizer because for me, at the end of the day, I use whatever I have to achieve the sound I like. I don't care for accuracy, phase shift and so forth. Just that it sounds good to me. I will use tone control if I have it so all for it.
Dear Thomas. If you use only you hearing (ears + brains), you will use a very unreliable instrument. Your hearing is very easily influenced. The way you feel that day (tired, sad etc. )makes more of a difference than the cable.
Hello Thomas i need a new cables for my Yamaha Soavo 1 and my Yamaha A-S801. I don't wont to spend lot's of money. I just need a balanced cable. I think The QED Ryby and the QED XT40 are good options. What do you think?
In my experience interconect cable & speaker cable make different, now i use taralabs speaker cable & nos diy western electric rca cable, they make sound more liquid, great soundstage, clarity, warm, thick, smooth & reality vocal.
Thomas,I need help.I find this cable thing really confusing.I'm putting together a budget system you could say.So far it consists of Kef q950's,Cambridge audio cxa80.I will be building my own subs,yes subs using dayton ultimax 15's.Anways I'm looking for advice on some decent speaker cables and interconnects as you can see by the level of products I'm purchasing.I can't spend a fortune but want something that's good. Would you be able to help me with this. Thanks
For me, cable is the hardest part to recommend. There is no best cable but rather the right cable. It's all a question of synergestic matching. If I look at your KEF+CXA80, I am going to guess that combo is bright sounding. If it is, then I would look for a 'warm' sounding cable to match it. Unfortunately, I am guess here and don't have experience with your actual gear. If my guess is correct, at least you can have a direction when asking advice on the from what cable to get. Usually I tell people not to worry too much about cables. Only spend money on it at the end, it really has the least impact in a system and many times, there is no difference.
@@ThomasAndStereo No cables lol.just using Plex and flac files.one interconnect to sub and speaker cables. It's coming along.The sub I built sounds good.If you would like a pic let me know.
Generally coaxial all things being equal. Coaxial input and output stages on devices typically have higher bandwidth than typical photo transceivers used on digital optical interfaces. This means that the square wave signals will have faster edges on coaxial which in turn will reduce jitter degradation. This will be more important if the DAC/receiver doesn't re-clock the incoming signal. A re-clocking DAC will be less affected by incoming jitter so optical may sound closer in that case.
For me its very simple, I can hear differences in cables (some at last). If I hear a difference in speaker cable or interlinks and I find it an improvement and not to expensive I will buy it. Snake oil is not so much if cables sounds different but the prices attached to it. I don’t understand people who says cables makes no difference based on a few measures. a. They didn’t listen? b. They cannot hear it? c. They think that 3 measured variables is all there is about sound? You cannot hear differences in all cables (I can’t), But when you hear a difference you have to determine is it better or worse and is it worh it? More expensive is not automatically better.
@@ericgardner5548 If you listen and cannot hear differences in any cable (that is not to judge if one cable is better or worse, but just hear the difference) it could be because of your music installation or the sensitivity of your ears.
Hi Thomas My system currently. Emotiva mono block amps and pre. Tube phono stage and that Marantz tt you showed before. Last month I wanted to add fun so I purchased a couple of receivers from 1977. A Kenwood 8010 and a Pioneer 980. When using the receivers as preamps I lost quite a bit of resolution on my lps. My speakers are $850 focal two ways on stands or Monitor Audio Silver Tens $2500. I am waiting for a McIntosh 275 in the mail. When that's paid off I will get a tube pre by McIntosh. I really like the big JBL speakers that Kendrick Sound shows in their videos. Have you watched any Kendrick videos? Any friends have Kendrick ?
I have never watched any Kendrick videos and never heard any JBL. My friends have experienced with them and some models are great. There are times I am tempted to get those that are blue infront but they are quite big. One day I will try JBL. How do you like that Marantz TT15? I broke my catridge and have been traumatized since then and never touched a turntable :(
I have read/watched videos of people that claim that power mains also make a difference. Any experience? Perhaps everything makes a difference and it all is subjective to the listener. I don’t have the budget for a truly audiophile system but I have the Kef LSX (smaller room) and am going to buy a subwoofer and am purchasing a subwoofer cable. I chose the Audioquest Boxer. It has the quality and the grounding feature. So at least a more expensive cable could help with any possible humming or hissing.
Power cables do make difference. But they only make difference when the power section of power amp is not designed good enough. Usb and other digital cables do make difference according to different kinds of them. Some provides good shielding, some rejects some frequencies, some offer galvanic isolation. There are measurable difference in digital cables. And sometimes audible.
Depends on the studio. Some would use Mogami since it works fine while others would use more higher end ones. I heard that from someone who is in the industry and for him, all the studios he works with know cables make a difference. But the world is big so to make a general statement is also wrong.
Well that's like saying if you have a amp with bass and treble you cant change sound because its been recorded a certain way I use to think cables didn't make a difference until I tried a bunch of them and let me tell you they do make a difference Its only small your just making like more bass or more treble or more bright or warm its bit like playing with tone controls
its all in the mind your system can sound different on a day to day basis because of your mood iv never found a difference with interconnects or mains conditioners but have slightly with speaker cable bein slightly better in the highs the only Audiophiles who know if the true are the ones who can afford them I can't so if someone who has tried high end cable says there is no difference there probably right and it's all snake oil at the end of the day try before you buy is the answer but if you think there is a difference when doing an A/B test there isn't one . A difference is a difference and not just think there is one .
A collection of cables that sound different (That's all of them, right?) means that PERHAPS one is getting it right. That may only be in a particular instance. Pretty much it's snake oil. It may benefit you to try getting better sound this way but it strikes me as an exercise for the extremely bored.
The only rule is cables in length that is it.........Longer runs demand fatter cables. Don't run RCA over 15 feet if you need to then run XLR. RCA's are fine for interconnects, and walmart 18 awg rca will work just fine for this too.
Thomas, Iam a music lover and not an electrical engineer, and cables do make a difference, can be slight or big or in some cases no difference it's all related to your systems resolution the higher resolving it is the more you have to spend to make any difference, and placing a $4k cable on a $8k system your wasting your money. Changing your source will give you more bang for your buck than a cable.
For me its very simple: do I hear a difference? If yes is, and it is an improvement and the price is right for the improvement then I buy it. I think the snake oil is in the prices of some cables. Those people who don’t believe in sound differences of speaker cables and interconnects
The one thing that can save you hundreds or even thousands of dollars is find a professional that knows their stuff, and someone that not only interested in selling his or her product but who want to set you up with something that will give you the kind of performance that makes your system literally sing. In my opinion, besides the cables is your source. Start there and work your way down the line. Also find someone that is willing to deal. Anyone that pays full retails is a fool. Calling around and asking if the retailer is willing to deal. It's that easy. Some will and some won't. I've saved many thousands this way. Interconnects, speaker cable and power cables are very important. Why spend thousands of dollars on a turntable or cd player or amp and connect $15 speaker cable or interconnects to it.
Well I don't buy stuff new. So I buy a cable at $300, try it and then resell at $300. That is how I get to own over 45+ pair of speakers, countless amps and preamps. Only when you bring it home and listen to it in your environment that you can be sure. Listening at a store or taking advice from a dealer is a great start forsure. But I like to really test stuff. Overall, I have broken even so did not cost me a penny.
Different isn't always better. I hear a difference between silver and copper wire. It seems to me that silver is brighter than copper. Different combinations of materials will result in different sound, but not necessarily better sound. So, if I'm happy with less expensive copper cables why spend thousands of dollars for silver and risk that it may sound different but not "better." I like using the term "different" as opposed to "better" or "best" because of the subjective nature of the analysis. One man's ceiling is another man's floor.
You are 100% right. It all depends what you find missing in your system. If your system is already too bright, adding silver cable to it will just make it worst. A few weeks ago, I had to change to a cable 10x cheaper because it was a better match to the system I had at the time.
@10:12 'the USB cable sounds good, sounds OK'. Lost packets don't affect the tonality of the sound. "Packet loss" affects the streaming and if severe enough it sounds like a 'scratched cd'. There is no 'audio signal/information' sent thru a digital connection. * a too long of a usb printer cable is never going to compromise the color/contrast of the printed picture. it either sends the data to the printer or it doesn't. "that's not how it works, that's now how any of this works";}
I understand and I cannot explain it. Of course, we all know it's not zero and ones going thru the cable but electrical signal. But once again, we are debating something that we all know. Until one try, not just one cable, but truly taken the time to try because he is in pursuit of the truth, it will be just an argument over the science of which I have nothing to offer. I only have experience. I am sure the fact that I have nothing to bring to the table from a scientific point of view is enough to convince you that I am wrong, then that is where the conversation ends. It always end that way in all the conversation regarding cables online. That is why I say it's fruitless and pointless.
It makes sense to get a decent set of cables over cheap cables but I don't think cables will make or break a system. Different cables sound slightly different so can help fine tune a system. The cable material and gauge makes a difference. I have seen cables that use CDA101 copper which is the purest copper. One brand for a couple of hundred pounds and another set for £000's. If there are using the same same material can there really be a difference in sound? Most component/speaker manufacturers generally use OFC copper cables in their products and not some special cable.
I would even say get the "right" cable for your system. For me it's all about synergy. Recently when doing test with the focal, the best cable that match with my low power integrated amp to the focal 926 was one of the cheaper cable I own. The mid level ones and expensive ones was too bright. How do you find the right cable? Unfortunately, there is no black and white answer except trial and error.
Thomas & Stereo Like you said it's a matter of trial and error. Firstly I would match the speakers to the components so they match tonally, so you get a natural sound, thats clear, detailed and not bright. Then find a cable that's neutral that doesn't add anything to the sound. If the components don't have synergy then cables won't really fix it. The system should be greater than the sum of its parts.
I can tell the difference in power cords and power conditioners. Upgraded cables I didnt hear the difference, but still I enjoy the quality construction and looks of reasonably priced cables such as some of the Audio Quests, Cullen, and A Better Cable. So on occasion I will go up to a few hundred.
