@@doperat9630 no he doesn't, he hates on shit that's mid, he likes mac miller, he likes post malone, he likes eminem and called revival trash when it was, its not that deep bro, some white rappers be getting to the level they get because they're white and that's a fact, he never mentioned anything about jack being white in his reviews UNTIL JACK MENTIONED IT IN A SONG HIMSELF, jack is a mid rapper(not bad but not great either) and there's way better black artists in the same lane, the same type of style that don't get nearly enough recognition is what he's saying
what always gets lost in tpab conversations is…. beyond the themes and kendricks ability to make a solid concept album… the music on that album is fucking amazing. we always talk about it’s impact and the message and meaning, but the music is just as incredible and that’s what that album is fire
@@onemicyeehaw1583 U might be the only song I’d classify as a hard listen emotionally, but that take always screamed to me that someone just wasn’t a fan of jazz, funk, or other less contemporary styles of rap. Half the songs on tpab are very easy on the ears
Thank you bro the way people talk about the sound of that album you would think it’s some next level experimental aphex twin shit. It’s literally beautiful baselines and pianos for and hour and 16 minutes like wtf
It certainly isn't a hard listen at all. It was still made by a mainstream artist which means it will definitely have some sort of wide appeal. It's kinda what kendrick does best, which is combining the two worlds of heavy, conscious rap with mainstream appeal. That being said, it's not exactly an album you use as a mood stabilizer in the same way that a ds2, or a IYRTITL is. A lot of listeners use music as a mood stabilizer, which means most of the time, they're looking for a drake or future album that's not lyrically demanding, and easy on the ears. When you just wanna have a good time and unwind, you aint putting on that kendrick. You're likely playing that carti, future, drake, kanye, lil nas, etc
@@corruptyungbeing3813 "ain't gotta lie" "Wesleys theory" are both songs I come back to and listen to all the time when I wanna chill. I still understand why people would choose something like future or smth but I find it hard personally to listen people like future all the time because of how bad the lyrics can be sometimes
Shawn is honestly speaking facts, White rappers don’t have to be as near as good as black rappers to pop. Jack Harlow isn’t bad at all, but if he wasn’t a curly head white boy, he wouldn’t be in the position he’s in. There are several rappers better than Harlow that aren’t in his position. I don’t blame Harlow for being white, but that’s just facts man.
It's not because he's white rapper, but it's the appearance (the charisma) and the flow and few other factors to stand out, so to what makes the music industry compagnies to look for. There is plenty underground white rappers who won't even make it cause they are missing something and they are also shitty rappers in both sides. If you look it up the popularity and the success as white rappers are minority in rap game in the USA compare to Britain let's say. To make it as rapper, you need to be good lyricist or you need to have good flow/rhythm and have unique look or charisma Simple as that. You need to provide the demands for both parties but mostly for the industry to get the exposure you want or to be the underdog but you have a devoted fan base.
Rap ability is not all what it takes in the music industry tho, ofc there's hundreds of rappers in general (both white and black) that are better than Jack and will never be on his level because it's not how music industry works
But Mac Miller tho…….. Yeah ik you probably gunna say he was a junkie or somethin. Yeah, he had his own demons, but who the hell doesn’t? Especially how shits going. Fuckin Malcom McCormick did it without a drake FT @ just 20 years old!
There are some rappers who are better than Harlow and are white and aren't in his position. There are some rappers who are worse than Harlow but are in even better positions than him.
Hot take. I feel white people like rap but regardless can’t see themselves in black people no matter how hard they try, so they prop up their own when they appear. Problem is since white people are often overwhelmingly economically prosperous and make up the majority of America, when they want to carve out a place in an art or culture for themselves, they instead overwhelm and absorb that culture by pushing out people who aren’t them. They then lose the driving force that made that art form so revolutionary in the first place, and move on like a fad. Now I’m not saying everyone who is white in America is wealthy. I’m saying economically speaking the poorest people in America are richer than the poorest people in other countries. It’s still no way to live, but you’ll see homeless people with IPhones and ish, and the base value of an American dollar is still higher than most countries in the world. It’s a consequence of many of the richest people taking residence in the US. It’s hard to not say identity politics play a role. It’s not the biggest, but it’s there. I have never related to those good old boy movies, but movies like Creed and Black Panther do speak to me on a more personal level. They are good films on their own, but they also personally relate to the story many black people (not black characters) feel, like how killmonger was told of this vast and beautiful city full of his people that he wasn’t allowed to access and that had many of its treasures stolen by other people. We can’t pretend the 400 years of historical gaslighting, oppression, and g-cide (you know the word) along with lying about black anatomy to call us inferior and illegal experiments (like Tuskegee) don’t play a role into the reason black culture feels an aversion and need to secede itself from white culture. TPAB, MMATBS, Care for Me, Things Fall Apart, Innocent Country 2, and More Black Superheroes are testaments to that, and ain’t nothing wrong with being meant for their own culture. Also nothing wrong with people outside of the culture enjoying it. Hell, I don’t like Taylor Swift anything, but she also doesn’t make anything for me and that’s fine. I’m a black man, not a white woman. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being white. That being said, it will never be less weird when white people encroach on a predominantly black art form with their opinions overriding people who are goats or have valid cultural justification for aversion to certain artists. Some people are goofy and we have goofy opinions on our side, but most people have pretty consistent opinions and while they won’t die for hip hop, they would definitely find it weird if a white dude copied MF DOOM’s everything, was worse, and got massive praise for it (ie y’all let Jack Harlow sell you chicken). Last note, shout out to some white people being goated. Most of them are producers but some are pretty good. Overseas rap too, some people know how to do it. Alchemist, Statik Selektah, El-P, Action Bronson, Mac Miller, Eminem (significant but past his prime), Avantdale Bowling Club, and more. They weren’t all the most significant, but they each carved out their own niche in rap and absolutely deserve props for it. And before you ask about Action Bronson, he already got props from GhostfaceKillah, the dude he emulates. Bronson sounds good while having his own unique humor and style of talking about things. And stop saying “separate the rapper from the artists.” Rap is art, and saying otherwise is at worst racist as all hell and at best getting you uninvited from all future cookouts.
*This might be a controversial take* but I feel like Fantano and some of these “music critics” don’t cultivate a following based on their great takes on music…. It’s because they’re so incredibly critical - - they develop a following based on their fans tuning in to see if “Maybe he’ll like this project - he’s usually hard to please” **Disclaimer : in this case - doesn't apply for me personally cos I enjoy Shawn’s takes more times than not**
That's usually it and the fact they have made it apparent they do not fuck with certain artists after repeatedly poor ratings on their projects but still review them blows my mind. It's basically just an opportunity to shit on an artist and make content. Personally I think that's when you crossover from critic to hater.
VENGEFULHEXX - very true.. I like Fantano too.. but sometimes he comes across very…. Idk it “condescending” is the word - when he can only give out back handed compliments..
@@VENGEFULHEXX its all entertainment at the end of the day. Theyre just giving out their opinions and hamming up their enjoyment/disappointment so the audience has an enjoyable time watching the video whether they agree with the opinions or not. It can definitely backfire when they go super hard hating an artist that their audience may be interested in/like a lot though
@@VENGEFULHEXX they acknowledge their biases all the time and fantano has made it clear it's just his opinion there is no objectivity here it's music, you're making it sound like a science or something
The album was mid imo.. but it’s because Shawn has astronomical hate for Jack - in the Churchill Downs video it was a level of hate I haven’t seen before by a reactor / critic.
@@asapsn00py99 I’ve always thought she was pretty but the music took me a moment or two to really “get” the vibe of. Boy’s a Liar is what made it click for me, (as basic as that sounds lol) it’s the blase, unbothered flow that just hooks me. There’s few words I can use to describe it, it just hits at certain times.
The album is trash cause Jack doesn’t have any passion in his voice he rapping about serious shit but still trying to be cool. There is no Emotion. The lyrics are there but the heart is not.
I think YOU interpreted “it can’t be” like that, Jack is saying what he’s saying in response to those who say it’s JUST cause he’s white and Jack wanted to make it clear that it’s not only for those reasons. Do you really think he’s that immature that he would rly think a little of his success can’t be attributed to his race?
Nobody’s saying that though. Besides maybe a few dumbasses on Twitter here or there, most people aren’t saying he only got his success because of his race, they’re just acknowledging that there’s a more than 0% chance it played a part in his success, and acting like that’s what the majority of people are saying is being intentionally obtuse. It just sounds like Jack is being whining and ranting about a point that nobody’s making in an attempt to shut up critics.
Shawn making valid points all over this people are trippin if they truly think Jackman was a "great" album. I'd expect this level of writing from a rapper's debut project rather than someone who has been doing this for 10+ years
@@IcarusFrandy no ofc. I meant a rapper as in like a young Cole, Big Sean, and heavily Drake. 99.9% of rappers out there trying to make a come up are ass fr tho 😂
He’s a student of the game and still trying to find his way however, I do feel like when you got artist like J.I.D, Denzel, Joey etc, you gotta figure out a way to stand out. This is why I Mac Miller is in my top 10 all time
How can you be rapping since middle school and still be a student of the game? This is kinda what Shawn is talking about? Where is this kind of charitability when a black or non white artist drops mid?
@@owenleal JID and Curry are literally breathing life into hip hop rn they both black. Jack isn’t on that level but he has the potential to be he’s only 24 so he’s got time
@@owenleal well there is ybn corde if you really think about it its kinda simalar corde is tec better dont get me rong but Corde has the same issue with his projects I guess he isint as big as Harlow to so I get ur point u got guys like millzy an ot the real who are white act pretty good an make better music then corde an Jack Harlow but there both smaller but also are involved more in hip hop if u ask me cause they have worked with pepole like Dave east Benny the butcher jadakiss but still haven't gotten flowers from the main stream YET still could but I just think main stream artist get over praised somtimes regardless of talent jacks got songs on the radio to but will see how pepole feel about him in 5 years cause he has a big carrer right now regardless even if his music isint the best right now lmao longjevity is key alot of white rappers get on an then fall off to such as g easy, Maclamore after a couple flops no one cares about them an rightfully so they were always mid tbh that's why they ain't have the legacy that some one like Mac Miller had just like corde might not have a carrer as good as Joey badasses or j.Coles but somtimes pepole get over hyped and if they cant stay relvent that's that I don't think this project is going to be percived as classic or anything non of its timless so kind of a nothing burger
Shawn, the support really comes from it not being an embarrassing album like the last. I know you mentioned it but really that's all there is to it, I feel you bringing up "white praise" or the advantage of being white is just pointing out the obvious for an answer that is so simple. I can't really say that if a black artist made this then we'd call it mid because how many black rappers have been in the position of Jack Harlow? like you said maybe Big Sean. A position of a popular rapper dropping an album that made them a laughing stock of the community then dropping a ,at best, somewhat decent album right after when everyone was ready to roast it. Yeah, him being white helped push his average talent but the question" why did this mediocre artist get more popular then some of the other ones or even other better artists?" can be said about multiple people in music today regardless of race or looks. Those things do play a factor among other attributes but it just comes down to getting lucky.
spot on. big sean came through with an album that wasnt shit and people thought it was AOTY. same thing happening with harlow. shit aint racially exclusive
In regards to tpab vs ds2. Tpab is a top album of all time for me but ds2 got fucking hits for days. I mean we talking fuck up some commas,trap niggas, Percocet and striped joint, colossal, rich sex, real sisters, freak hoe, thought it was a drought and where ya at ft drake…..if you was outside when tht album dropped it was definitely a whole situation 😂. When the music is good the women go crazy. You may be able to get some Kendrick off with the right type of woman in an intimate setting but future is for when you active outside.
@@mcgavinclapping9490 piggybacking off what you said, you can definitely have both albums in a very high regard, but only prefer one over the other depending on the time, environment and mood. Some days you just wanna be ignant, lol, and Future’s music supplies that feeling very well.
Here's what i don't get about your whole Jack Harlow thing. Why is it that you seem to think that Harlow NEEDS to be wholly unique and original and lyrically impeccable? Why can't he just be a not very original, slightly above average skilled rapper who is successful and that be ok? Like 90% of other rappers in the world! There's an entire industry full of thousands of successful rappers. Only 2 of them are kendrick and j.cole!
I dont get how people dont get Gang Gang Gang. The first listen and the pure confusion you feel mirrors his reaction to him finding out people he grew up with are actually really messed up people. Its about how empty popularised sayings like 'Bros for life' really are and that when you are not with people day in day out like you were when you were younger, you can completely miss the monsters they turn into because you are blinded by your childhood experiences. The last verse also makes specific reference to the music industry and Hollywood in general harbouring celebrities who commit these acts who normal people would cut off instantly out of horror and disgust and the only reason they finally cut ties is because of public perception.
It’s because there is no emotion in the song he is literally just blandly rapping about a situation where he should truely be expressing himself in the inflection of his voice
I feel the weakest part about it is the 3rd verse, it feels like he should re-enforce the point he was making about holding people accountable but then it sounds like he's criticising those who don't "stick up for their friends" and I guess you can make a point about how it's the two sides of the situation and like leaving it open for interpretation but imo it came off as kinda weak I do still like the track though, the sample is nice
Its extremely surface level given the topics at hand and essentially all he says is they did this and now theyre gone gang gang. Extremely boring song if you ask me and its definitely nowhere near as deep as these 12 paragraphs you wrote. The problem with jack is hes trying to get deep without giving much context towards anything whatsoever. Hes not painting the pictures hes trying to and thats the problem.
its like when darius rucker popped off in country music. His music was aight but the big thing was he's black. The masses tuned in. Same thing with Kane Brown. When people from other races try new genres, people give them crazy passes.
I agree with what he said, at the beginning of the video on how there’s a certain pedestal that people put white rappers on. What he said about Jack Harlow wasn’t any different than he would say about someone who makes this VERY generic rap music
because hes white its extra generic? more so than artists like Nav & Gunna? bro aint no way ur convincing me that harlow more generic than 90% of mainstream nowadays
bro said “when i go into the record hating on white people its assumed im hating on white people.” shawn has gotta be the worst critic ive ever heard at justifying his opinions. at least he entertaining tho…
I think the notion that Jack Harlow is only popular cuz he’s white is dumb, but kind of true. But also not in a weird racist way. The same way that Kendrick Lamar, Tupac, etc made music that related to the black struggle, is the same way that Jack Harlow just makes music that white suburban kids relate to, when not a lot of hip-hop artists talk about things that they experience in life. Not saying white suburban experience is in any way similar to the history of black struggle in America btw 💀💀
This simply isn't true. Most black hip hop artists have majority white/white passing fans whether they're mainstream or underground. Does the music made cater to certain demos? Of course. Will white people still dominate their audience? Also yes. The issue isn't even with white people, it's about why an artist like Jack, with the lyrical capability of a middle school theater kid emulating a sound that has been done for generations while adding ZERO to it magically has the world upside down.
@@ShawnCeeLIVE lyrical capability of a middle school student? Huh? I’m not saying he’s Eminem but he is clearly solid on a technical front. If you did an ai version with Drake doing these lyrics nobody would bat an eye (which is a different problem but worth noting). If it’s so easy you should be able to do better.
@@Vageta1999 Oh you're actually braindead then. The type that thinks you need to be a better rapper to say what a bad line in a song is lmao. You're talking about technical when I'm clearly speaking about his writing, it's like you're not even reading man. Drake (despite having plenty of corn in his discography) is a significantly better rapper and writer than Jack so idk why you're bringing him up, Drake wouldn't write these lyrics unironically. The best of Jacks pen doesn't come close to the best of Drakes. So yes, again, Jack is a shitty writer 90% of the time.
2:07 dont you be vouching for big sean bro? Jack aint all that but this shit aint exclusive. I think Harlow like some others gets around cause of his looks and he seems like a nice guy which offers a decent amount of people to be interested in him. I dont think being white gets him as far as you think or assume.
Man, white hip hop fans are so mad over Jack Harlow being called out for being a white washed, Great Value version of Kanye, Drake, and J.Cole, and I'm enjoying every second of this.
Bro at the end of the day people will just like what they like and listen to what they like. I feel like Kendrick is a miles better rapper and writer than Tyler but I listen to Tyler way more. Same goes for Eminem and Jack Harlow for example, Em is miles better but I listen to more Jack Harlow. Not everything has to be linear and objective, let people enjoy what they like without being pressured
I guess the vast majority of black rappers don’t contribute much either. And white rappers are a small minority of rappers, so they’re by definition not going to be making huge waves in the culture. That being said, jack Harlow does suck ngl. And he does get way more love than a black dude would get making this music. I think his praise is mostly due to his persona and popularity outside of music. Which you could also make an argument is due to society’s racial bias.
Seeing how shawn talks about jack makes me think he fr fr doesn't wanna consider him at all despite what he puts out. Jack writes well and raps well. I'm not even a huge jack fan or back up his work like others but I won't deny he's good. He's not in the conversation at all. But he's not mediocre. A black man would get love spitting this style of stuff. C'mon dude. Discrediting his work cuz of his skin color is dumb af
Sometimes it feels like emulating pre existing styles is seen as cool for white rappers. I can easily see some people thinking white rappers are trying to sell hip hop out to white audiences when they bring in a strong style/identity. Or just totally dismissing it if it's too different.
You dont own art there is no “our art” art isnt about color Also there is no “us” you dont speak for all black people Nobody owns a culture Imagine gatekeeping in 2023
i say yes lol, before everyone responds "he just has an opinion", to that i say yes he does and regarding soley his opinion on the album, well i think its valid, as valid as any opinion and is not why i say he is a hater. i say hes a hater because all throughout this video he was pausing to take repetitive shots at jack and his music ability he already made abundantly clear. *clicks spacebar* "cuz like I said he cant write" *continues*, *clicks spacebar again* "well at least hes been consistent in being ass his whole career " *continues*. Id say it come across hes not too happy his jack takes aren't being unanimously received and thinks more way more strongly about them than just a passing thought or opinion generally is. That said again don't think I'm saying this cuz i think this album is so amazing or something like i said my opinion isn't based on his opinion on the album
I prefer jazz and soul and funk soundscapes so TPAB wins out over so much music just for it's overall sound, jazz and funk influenced flows as well. I think it's his best album. Otherwise I don't even listen to Kendrick much.
Shawn is definitely saying how I feel about TPAB versus other records. I don't want to focus on digesting, and potentially cry, to a record all the time. Most of the time, I'm picking the Pinatas and the Scaring the Hoes. I'll listen to around 20 records before TPAB most of the time, and TPAB is still a more amazing record to me than all of them 99% of the time. Also, I agree with his point about white people trying to dictate what is important to black people in hip-hop. I feel like there's a "I don't like hip-hop, but I listen to Eminem" to "TPAB is the most important record of all time" pipeline - it's not a stretch.
I like Jackman and Shawn Cee is still right imo. Jack Harlow went from biting Drake and 2011 big Sean to biting Ye and 2017 big Sean. Jack still doesn’t know the answer, he jus found a smarter kid to copy off of.
I'll never understand why some blacks in America get pressed over white people rapping.. like bro? A white man rapping really got you in your feelings? It says a lot about your life if a random white man rapping you ain't never met or ever talked to is one of your main problems
Just Lowkey Hatin The Whole Video , And Trying To Disguise It With Some Bull ...Might As Well Grow Some Testi's And Be A Passionate Hater...I'd Respect You More
@@comeawaywithme isn’t that the point i just made? Ofcourse we all have our own opinions, and many people’s opinion is their idea of shawn being a hater
@@recordstraight556 you know full well we're talking about his "bias" on jack's music (which is what your original comment was about, please keep up). you getting pressed about his opinion is strictly a YOU problem
why is hip-hop considered to be black music in the first place? even if it is black created, isn't it it art? art is not a race thing. And more importantly art is subjective. Jack's album maybe mid but bringing this argument into this field. It just doesn't make sense.
WAIT WAIT WAIT. He said “I’m not gonna listen about opinions from white people to tell me what to like and not like”…fair enough…literally seconds later “let’s see what out favorite white person fantano has to say, I’m sure he’s not biased but ain’t gon listen to it” 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ Shawn shawn shawn…it’s ok to admit when you’re off the rocker g. It is clear as day that there hater energy in this and seriously you can’t blame people for thinking that
Shawn deffo a hater BUT after hearing 'Evolution of Man' by Lil Dicky where he's rapping over a College Dropout Kanye-esque beat...I kinda see why Shawn's not so impressed 😅😅
Imo jack hasnt been the same since 2018 when loose dropped and idc what yall think. His music hasnt been the same since and thats just my take on it. Every jack album since i listen once and never listen again cuz his musics bland and boring and i also havent liked his production in years.
@28:00 - 28:40 is absolutely correct 🤣. They hope we don't peep the switch up, 🤔I thought you got rid of those guys. You're still hanging out with them, I guess you really meant Gang Gang Gang. And since when does keeping the same friends since high school, your parents raising you right or the other crap he named play a part in getting a record deal or success? This guy, I swear.
I just wish Jack could go back to his old music style and try to have fun with his group! He’s missing the vibe feeling to his lyric and flow style he used to have. And Now I feel like he’s trying to hard like he has a chip on his shoulders..
Never understood why people want everyone to like something they like and if they dont like it they hating?? Like can you not fathom why someone doesn’t like the shit you like? Theres a reason most kpop fans dont fw hip hop its not their shit and thats okay Mfs just love to argue and yes I agree wit his take about white rappers all they have to do is be ok at rapping have somewhat good production and they get all the accolades and its true Niggas like Vince Staples, Saba, Mick Jenkins, Earl, Smino, Isaiah Rashad, Denzel Curry, JID etc have been making incredible hip hop albums for a whole decade and none of their albums have sold over 500k first week But someone like Jack Harlow can just come out and drop whatever and people will listen which aint a bad thing but it happens
Zero lies told. I said the same thing about Jack needing to step into his own individuality as an artist to really get the development he needs to come off as sincere instead of copy and pasting to get by.
I’m pretty sure you hate the kid. He’s like mid career big Sean where he’s not the best at anything but can hold us own and tell his own story. Even your takes on how race plays a part are a bit contrived. As someone who is black myself, they are so surface level but trying to be deep that it hurts to listen to. You can just say you’d not like the music. It just comes across disliking the music and then trying to shoehorn a racial component that justifies it rather than being honest enough to say you dislike it. I used to follow you a lot and think you were very nuanced in your analysis, I’m coming to realize that I’ve likely given way too much credit.
None of this argument even makes sense. Jack is the one who brings up race & says it isn’t at all cuz he’s white, Shawn here, as well as other content creators, have all done a solid job at explaining how those things play a part if you were listening. Also he does say he doesn’t like it, but like plenty of Harlow fans you’re trying to make it seem like he doesn’t tell you why when he repeatedly says so. The bulk of this video isn’t upset with Jacks whiteness it’s annoyance at how overhyped he is given how below average his pen and music is. And no, Big Sean is a significantly better rapper than Jack Harlow back then and especially now.
I mean Jack Harlow is average but you definitely hate him in an unwarranted way. All imma say is there are way worse rappers to make 5% of your existence dedicated towards hating them
Lil pump existing doesnt magically somehow make this album better and youre also making our point for us if this is how you have to justify this album not being bad. This is just like someone else saying well if drake made this yall would love it as if that has anything to do with this album being bad. We arent hating on him because hes white were simply stating his music is boring and uninspired.
Yeah Willow dope asl but I don’t think she gets Billie Eilish love. I know Shawty get mad love but I don’t think she supported the same way as Eilish ya know.
