Do Our Morals Conflict, Abortion, & Bodily Autonomy | John - Florida | Atheist Experience 22.27

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The Atheist Experience episode 22.27 for July 8, 2018, with Tracie Harris and Jen Peeples.
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Комментарии : 1,9 тыс.

@derwolf9670 5 лет назад

"Was the genocide correct?" "Sure, why not?" John...you are the reason we need abortion. We can't have more of you running around

@TheSnoeedog 2 года назад

A walking, talking argument for abortion; a pro-choice billboard with legs

@yvancluet8146 Год назад

no don't be like that. He got brainwashed, he doesn't sound stupid, and unlike you, he's actively trying to understand the other side's perspective

@theendisthebeginningistheend Год назад

@@yvancluet8146 Yes he does, & no, he's not.

@topcat2069 Год назад

Ouch....... but I sorta agree

@spencerrocchi3388 Год назад

@@yvancluet8146 He's not arguing in good faith.

@drshellkinggmailcom 5 лет назад

Hm. A Christian who doesn’t understand consent. Imagine that.

@seanjones2456 5 лет назад

What a condescending little turd. Around the 14 minute mark, Traci loses it and calls it pathetic! These 2 women could fart a more intelligent thought than this bird brain.

@wellitstrue1138 5 лет назад

Does the separate being that's inside of a mother's womb have consent of you ending its life. I think not

@seanjones2456 5 лет назад

@@wellitstrue1138 Just as you do not have the right to hook up a tube to somebody else and have your blood flow through their organs, A fetus doesn't have that right over the woman as well.

@wellitstrue1138 5 лет назад

@@seanjones2456 You are comparing a unvoluntary blood trasnfer to a unique 100% human being... Next will be a rape theory....

@sarah4hp 5 лет назад

@@wellitstrue1138 As long as it is violating a woman's body that is not consenting to the pregnancy, then the woman gets to make the choice. At least up until the point where it becomes an independent life that is NOT dependent on the woman's body to survive anymore, and ACTUALLY is a person in it's own right. In that case there is now two independent people, and they both have equal rights to life.

@peterwarren3797 5 лет назад

I hope there will come a day when religion is gone.

@SC-zq6cu 4 года назад

Unfortunately, as long as there are desperate people in bad situations (which there forever will be as long as we are humans) religion will always be a thing.

@mathildeyoung1823 3 года назад

I hope there will come a day when abortion is gone.

@jcarc5701 3 года назад

@@mathildeyoung1823 I hope there will come a day when everyone gets a livable monthly salary.

@mathildeyoung1823 3 года назад

@@jcarc5701 you mean everyone EARNS a livable monthly salary and the government assists those who cannot for a period of time until they can... (unless they are disabled). Until that day comes though it's not OK to kill a child (born or unborn) to make your life easier.

@jcarc5701 3 года назад

@@mathildeyoung1823 So you kind of get the point. That is your hope for yourself doesn’t apply to everyone. And by the way, a sperm is not a zygote, a zygote is not a fetus, and certainly a fetus is not a human.

@33melonpaws77 5 лет назад

I'm yet to hear women call in about abortion, it's only been men so far. I'm keeping my eyes peeled.

@missminti 5 лет назад

*under his eye*

@TheBeatle49 5 лет назад

And ears.

@petezipardi4022 3 года назад

Blessed be the fruit.

@mathildeyoung1823 3 года назад

I'm sure thats intentional on the shows part. There are many pro-life women.

@Imnothighpromise 3 года назад

@@petezipardi4022 may the lord open..

@stevenkay4104 6 лет назад

Just minutes after arguing God has the right as the “Lord of life” to kill a child “for whatever reason” he then scoffs at the idea that Hitler was correct just because he had the power and “called the shots”

@Xrahke 5 лет назад

This AF

@wellitstrue1138 5 лет назад

You might need to clean your ears. His point is, it's wrong that God killed people in the Old Testament but it's okay if we kill people here now. What is the difference between you in a fetus inside of a woman's belly? Genetically speaking? I'll tell you what the difference is, nothing.

@jilliansmith7123 5 лет назад

Well, there is a small difference, Well. Developmental age. At one point we are all eggs and sperm, most of which are destroyed one way and another. something like 30-40% of all pregnancies end spontaneously, without the woman's consent or the fetus' consent or even anyone's particular knowledge. Is that a travesty on their humanity? As we get old and face death, is that with our consent? I bet it's not! Why do you think we had to invent eternal life and salvation? To pretend we can somehow circumvent the inevitability of our own permanent demises. We are as ephemeral as the butterflies...but a little less fluttery.

@KirstenMarie_MS3 5 лет назад

@@wellitstrue1138 Using genetics as a determinant is incredibly reductionist. What's the difference, genetically speaking, between you and a tumor in your liver? It's also nothing. So, genetically speaking, removing that tumor is murder.

@heinzguderian9980 5 лет назад

Whenever it comes to the government, Christians will talk about how "absolute power corrupts absolutely" but they either conveniently forget when it comes to God, or they give insipid justifications about his "great understanding."

@sle2470 5 лет назад

Remember kids, John is just ONE of MANY people who think like this.....and vote!

@sarahboulger9104 5 лет назад

That thought always scares the shit out of me.

@VYDZ 5 лет назад

When the embryo implants in the lining of the uterus, it emits chemical substances which weaken the woman's immune system within the uterus so that this tiny "foreign" body is not rejected by the woman's body.

@jeanbrodeur9667 4 года назад

And they vote for the idiots who pretend to think like that do. Easily conned like they are being right now.

@adas2409 3 года назад

People who think like this are overwhelmingly republicans...think about that

@perryegolson833 3 года назад

@@adas2409 They are pretty much all Republicans. Low information voters.

@DustbinFunkbndr 4 года назад

This guy is just another example of callers who simply don’t have the communication skills to have productive conversations.

@stevebarrett2106 5 лет назад

He had it explained to him over and over and completely failed to understand a very simple thing.If, immediately after the call ended, he was asked to explain Tracie and Jen's position, i'm certain he would misrepresent them.

@seanjones2456 5 лет назад

This could be a video displaying dunning krueger.

@VYDZ 5 лет назад

Every cell of the unborn's body is genetically distinct from every cell in the mother's body. Though it’s possible for someone to have a transplanted organ that does not share the same genetic code as the rest their body, that transplanted organ does match the genetic code of the original donor. The same can not be said of an unborn child.

@anandsuralkar2947 5 лет назад

Right

@TheSnoeedog 2 года назад

he'd be too busy holding down his unwilling wife and thrusting into her his views on consent

@MrBosif95 5 лет назад

These conversations go so similarly almost every time. The caller asks a question then interrupts when they try to answer. Once they have answered, the caller gets confused and does not understand the answer completely, prompting more explanations of basic concepts. If the caller would just listen and have the ability to comprehend basic concepts, he might have a chance to actually argue his point.

@seanjones2456 5 лет назад

Always a man too! Weird?

@mzavros 5 лет назад

They don't want to listen. They just spout their perceived superior moral position.

@maryhunter6389 5 лет назад

@MrBosif95 - If the caller was able to do that, they wouldn't have called because they would have figured everything out for themselves.

@marinagarza1803 2 года назад

Exactly, b/c the caller is not listening when the hosts speak. He is too busy trying to create a rebuttal in his feeble mind.

@PoptartKing99 6 лет назад

damn this guy is hard to listen to

@wellitstrue1138 5 лет назад

It's always hard to listen to somebody when the truth convicts them

@Charzilian 5 лет назад

It's hard to listen to all of them tbh.

@nates9029 5 лет назад

Poptartking 99 - Yeah, he is clearly a product of inbreeding and poor schooling. I fell bad for people this fucking dumb.

@nates9029 5 лет назад

@@wellitstrue1138 - He couldn't convince anyone of ANYTHING except that inbreeding is clearly a problem, that the schools where he lives are horrible and have failed him.

@amandarios448 4 года назад

I don't know what's worse. • the rottem potato quality phone call • the annoying voice • the bad mental acrobatics • the changing subjects when he's wrong, • The really weak arguments

@maddieb9059 5 лет назад

This is so painful. Really unfortunate that this guy procreated

@MJW238 5 лет назад

Merp! You’re advocating eugenics.

@Charzilian 5 лет назад

It's honestly painful listening to both sides of this. I really don't care if someone wants an abortion, that's for them to decide and deal with later. I'm more concerned with the so called logic these two hold lol and the fact that I'm the only one in the comments section that points out their flaw is very undiscerning.

@jaymiddleton1782 5 лет назад

Bacon Sizzle point out the flaw in their understanding

@phookiephook1043 4 года назад

He was annoyed these women weren’t as stupid as the poor dull woman that mates with him.

@buttthecat1354 4 года назад

He is just realizing that he didn't have to have kids. lol think about whats going on in his head. "so you are saying i could have........"

@edam4321 5 лет назад

When the instructions from the bible doesn't suit their narrative " you're taking it out of context" "that's your perception of the story" how can you argue with someone like this.. its impossible

@heinzguderian9980 5 лет назад

Jordan Peterson argument tactics.

@gagedillon8090 3 года назад

I got into argument over the biblical conception of the universe, but it somehow shifted to whether the Bible encourages genocide. I pointed out the beginning of Deuteronomy 7 and this girl told me to read the rest of Deuteronomy to get the true point of it. So I did. And what I read only strengthened my original point. I seriously do not understand how some people don't realize that some statements stand alone and do not need context as they say exactly what they mean and they mean exactly what they say as there is nothing else to say.

@supreme5580 2 года назад

@@gagedillon8090 the point is religion sucks the living brain cells out of people and impairs them to view & process bible passages as anyone else...

@captainbryce1 5 лет назад

“You mean...consent actions matters?” Yes John, CONSENT!

@wellitstrue1138 5 лет назад

Did the baby have consent in having it's heart stop???

@joulian 5 лет назад

@@wellitstrue1138 My words exactly, even if I'm not on your side

@A.I.Remnant 5 лет назад

@@wellitstrue1138 That's irreverent. Only the mother's consent is relevant because its *her* body that's being used. The baby has no right to her body without her consent.

@dariusnoname12 5 лет назад

@@wellitstrue1138 Even if I disagree with what was said on this show(I don't really like abortions) we both have to admit that all woman does is terminating pregnancy, now if that terminations results to fetus death is separate matter.

@KirstenMarie_MS3 5 лет назад

@@wellitstrue1138 What heart? At 6 weeks, all you're seeing on an ultrasound is some electrical activity in a region of cells that will become the AV node. There is no real heart to beat until around week 20. Sure, the cells that will become he heart are present earlier in gestation. But they do not show the organization necessary to effectively circulate blood around the body until week 20.

@edam4321 5 лет назад

"Why do care about innocent children dying in the old testament?" Wtf?

@himi6536 5 лет назад

The best retort to that would be "then why do you care about women aborting their fetuses?"

@supreme5580 2 года назад

"Some people having unprotected sex cuz they're idiots" the freaking irony...

@andrewsgaming8230 Год назад

As a man I am tired of men coming and saying what a woman should do with their body. Regardless of whether it’s a person in the womb or not, someone does not get to use another person’s body without consent. It is NOT hard to comprehend

@mathildeyoung1823 4 месяца назад

What's not hard to comprehend is that if you put a defenseless human being in a position of dependence on you then you need to BE RESPONSIBLE and ensure that human being's safety to the best of your ability.

@mrsatire9475 4 месяца назад

@@mathildeyoung1823 What's not hard to comprehend is that life does not begin at conception. The sperm is not dead when it swims up to the egg.

@mathildeyoung1823 4 месяца назад

@@mrsatire9475 Perhaps this will help in your education: “gametes are human cells, but embryos are entire living human beings.” Dr. Joachim Huarte and Dr. Antoine Suarez

@mrsatire9475 4 месяца назад

@@mathildeyoung1823 Since it is a baby, let him adopt the embryo

@mathildeyoung1823 4 месяца назад

@@mrsatire9475 people need to BE RESPONSIBLE and ensure the safety of their offspring, born or unborn, at least as long as it takes to hand them off SAFELY to someone else.

@lolcakeisfalse 5 лет назад

"now... are you reading that in greek or in hebrew"

@CyberBeep_kenshi 3 года назад

That was sooooo dishonest.

@mina6mina 10 месяцев назад

It's scary how many people don't comprehend what consent is😐

@JerryPenna 4 года назад

I’m not the originator of this but if men got pregnant there would be absolute no question about abortion. I hope I can remember Tracies analogy about rape vs consensual sex, makes it crystal clear to me.

@jamespawson6045 3 года назад

Religious people say god is crystal clear for them...... Your first argument is hypothetical and generalises across all men.

@YY4Me133 2 года назад

@Jerry Penna "If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament." - Florynce Kennedy

@JerryPenna 2 года назад

@@YY4Me133 💯

@LucaGRizzi Год назад

Yeah and we would be probably forcing women to get vasectomies

@luciusblackwood4818 4 года назад

John just can't wrap his head around the idea that a fetus is violating the mother's body.

@TheSnoeedog 2 года назад

or that a woman is something more than a life support system for a vagina

@jasperhernandez7364 2 года назад

Not really moron .

@jasperhernandez7364 2 года назад

When she is the one who helped plant it there.

@SeRoAnthem 2 года назад

@@jasperhernandez7364 Nah, sex doesn't always lead to pregnancy. People who have sex for the goal of pleasure consent to sex, but don't consent to pregnancy.

@TheSnoeedog 2 года назад

John can't wrap his head around the *radical notion that women are people!*

@pr6189 4 года назад

I think this guy needs to be taught what’s autonomy means.

@GregoryJohnson-l1g 4 года назад

Because men (and I am one) can not understand what a woman has to go through in the process of pregnancy

@sfprivateer Год назад

He was taught for 20 minutes, and his brain was on short circuit the whole time and did not learn a fucking thing.

@Ms.Amylia_Clenny Год назад

An Autonomy definition would help. A lot of people, including those who use the word, don't fully understand what that word means.

@adamgrotto8163 6 лет назад

I am learning so much from you guys. I sincerely thank you for doing what you do.

@ttp513 5 лет назад

@Lady Skeptic Same....

@elisapelaccia6484 3 года назад

Adam Grotto- Me too! I totally envy Tracie's debating skills! She is so eloquent, and always manages to maintain her composure. There are certain topics that I refuse to debate, and THIS is one of them! I just really resent anybody who feels that they have the right to tell ME what to do with MY body! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course, but they do NOT have the right to force their beliefs on other people. I would have lost it with this guy a long time ago! What a fucking moron! 😡

@mathildeyoung1823 3 года назад

So you learned that abortion kills a human being and still support it?

@mathildeyoung1823 3 года назад

@@elisapelaccia6484 Only a moron would believe that abortion is about doing something to your body. It's about doing something to the body of another human being (i.e. KILLING THEM). As far as laws based on our beliefs by your "logic" we should get rid of animal cruelty laws. Those laws are based on our BELIEF that dogs and cats shouldn't be abused....

@mathildeyoung1823 3 года назад

It's not the woman's body killed in an abortion though. Both men and women need to be responsible for their offspring, born and unborn. Neither should be allowed to kill them. Both should support their offspring - financially, emotionally etc.

@ApocryphalDude 5 лет назад

Caller: it's not a fetus, it's a human and therefore a person. Host: People aren't allowed to violate another person. Caller: it's a baby and more than a person. It gets to do whatever it wants.

@rhaynes46 5 лет назад

LOL. It's hilarious to me that this idiot would WANT to call in and be dominated.

@wellitstrue1138 5 лет назад

Genetically speaking is a fetus different than a person. If so can you please explain. Don't worry I'll wait. I'll allow you to go on Google and do your research

@ApocryphalDude 5 лет назад

I'm pretty sure that genetics don't indicate personhood.

@rebekahplatzer6203 4 года назад

It gets a chance at life, abortion takes that away.

@mrsatire9475 4 месяца назад

@@rebekahplatzer6203 The sperm gets a chance at life, abstinence takes that away

@jonquist9950 6 лет назад

He doesn't get it.

@ThugByChoice 5 лет назад

Jon Quist he doesn’t have a uterus.

@jonquist9950 5 лет назад

@@ThugByChoice - That too. But I know lots of other people who don't have a uterus, who get it.

@EvenGodsDie 5 лет назад

The bodily autonomy argument is a bad one. They need to stick with the "It's not a human, so it doesn't have any rights at all", argument.

@EvenGodsDie 5 лет назад

@SWAGGQUEEN200 I didn't make an argument, so your response is dogshit. If it has nothing to do with Bodily Autonomy....then why the fuck would the hosts of the show be mentioning a thing that is has nothing to do with?

@beardyweirdy4843 5 лет назад

@SWAGGQUEEN200 no response to Brad then? Lol

@huh1666 5 лет назад

Take it to fourth grade 😂 this man has a mind of a fourth grader

@russellh9894 3 года назад

10:38 Paraphrasing: "It's like when we say we annihilated the other team in a game. I don't think they really annihilated those people". Wow. That's some hard-core mental gymnastics.

@tolowreading6807 5 лет назад

If I am going to die without one of your kidneys can I take one without your permission?

@grayson0916 5 лет назад

nancy white if the reason you’re dying is a result of my own choice then yes, have one of my kidneys.

@grayson0916 5 лет назад

Doug Royce it’s a joke. A fetus exists of your own actions and sustains itself from your own actions. Is it okay to drink and do meth while pregnant? Obviously not. Ask yourself why.

@dougroyce5784 5 лет назад

Your last comment exist either because of faults in your logic or being intellectually dishonest. Were you this interested in protesting the Iraq/Afghanistan war? @@grayson0916

@grayson0916 5 лет назад

Doug Royce lmao I support abortion right and wasn’t old enough to know what a war in Iraq was. Wicked comeback though. If the fetus shouldn’t be able to change your actions or life why shouldn’t you be able to smoke meth when pregnant? It is violating the woman’s body after all, apparently she owes nothing to the fetus.

@dougroyce5784 5 лет назад

You're not old enough? It just ended in like 2013! Are you 10?@@grayson0916

@CARUSAR21 6 лет назад

Yes John.... A woman has rights.... Scary to hear how hard this is to understanding for religious nut jobs.

@EvenGodsDie 5 лет назад

Do you think that a woman has bodily autonomy?

@jonquist9950 5 лет назад

@@EvenGodsDie - That she DOES have bodily autonomy, or that she SHOULD have bodily autonomy? Women SHOULD have full bodily autonomy. But with the way abortion is being regulated (and rape isn't taken seriously), they don't have it right now.

@EvenGodsDie 5 лет назад

@@jonquist9950 if a person has the right to full bodily autonomy, it would make it completely legal to leave children to die on the side of the road. Or leave their children in parked cars with the windows rolled up when it's 100 degrees outside.

@jonquist9950 5 лет назад

@@EvenGodsDie - No, because that effects the childs right to bodily autonomy. Please don't start a disingenuous argument that you know doesn't make sense, just because you can't defend what you really want to defend.

@EvenGodsDie 5 лет назад

@@jonquist9950 the bodily autonomy argument being made in this video is that a mother has the right to deny the unborn child the use of her womb, which will lead to the death of the child. The mother created a situation in which an unborn child is dependant on her womb for survival, and the mother then can decide that it's her body, and she no longer wants to allow the unborn child to use it, and that directly leads to the death of the child. That is no different than me walking into the middle of the desert, carrying a baby, and then deciding to deny the child the use of my body to carry it, so I just drop it in the dirt and walk off. In both of those scenarios, the child is dependant on a person for it's survival, and that person invokes their right to bodily Autonomy, and decides they no longer want to use their body to support a child, and the child dies. Nothing about that infringes on the child's right to bodily autonomy.

@labella9291 5 лет назад

You ladies are going to have to stop using rape as an analogy. These guys aren't getting it. Instead, use a prostate exam as an example. Point out the difference in consenting for a doctor to insert a digit, and someone randomly sticking a finger in there.

@a.vulcan6282 4 года назад

La Bella You'd be surprised how much people are able to "not understand" when it's convenient for them!

@nucflashevent 5 лет назад

I've been listening to the show since before I was an atheist and I never recall anyone saying "atheist only" in regard to any kind of get-together they've ever talked about.

@wendytipton5607 5 лет назад

It would not tax my imagination one bit that he misunderstood that as well. His comprehension is practically non-existent.

@Costlierdread 4 года назад

When he realizes women have rights, he then tries to argue thats rights arent even real

@azayzelderegis1655 Год назад

“The fetus isn’t violating her body, it’s a natural process!” YES IT IS violating her body because it is using her bodily organs against her will and living inside of her when she doesn’t want it there!!

@thethird1967 4 года назад

Why are men....in this case "white" men, so fixated on this subject? Why?

@rebekahplatzer6203 4 года назад

Because the willful destruction of innocent human life is a problem.

@G_Demolished 3 года назад

Because their dominion over women has been gradually eroding, and they see this a chance to fight it.

@jeffperkins9837 4 года назад

when a fundie starts with "let me ask you a question", and then you can hear the excitement as they spring what they think is the "gotcha". And then the confusion when the panelists don't immediately convert.......

@davec-1378 6 лет назад

It's bodily autonomy, why is that hard to comprehend? If the caller would listen instead of interrupting while assuming what he is being told this call could have been less painful and 10 minutes shorter.

@Wraithknight2 6 лет назад

He doesn't understand the difference between a fetus not being an infant and a child outside of the womb that can survive on its own. And neither side is picking up on that.

@EvenGodsDie 5 лет назад

Because, women don't actually have bodily autonomy, as far as I can tell.

@EvenGodsDie 5 лет назад

@@Wraithknight2 Why do you make a distinction between it being inside or outside of the womb?

@davec-1378 5 лет назад

@@EvenGodsDie Do you have bodily autonomy?

@EvenGodsDie 5 лет назад

@@davec-1378 If I am allowed to leave a baby to die in a hot car, then I have bodily autonomy.... Does the government have the right to force me to use my body, to remove my child from a hot car with all of the windows rolled up, in the middle of the summer?

@llkiii3139 5 лет назад

Jen and Tracie's stance on abortion is the only philosophically consistent pro-choice position on the issue that I've heard. It's a position that acknowledges that the fetus is a human being and asigns it the same exact rights that it does to any other human being.

@skindred1888 2 года назад

I know, so often the question gets turned into when a fetus is human or some bullshit

@NottherealLucifer 8 месяцев назад

@@skindred1888Incorrect, the point is always "Is a fetus a person?" and the answer, objectively, is no it isn't.

@NottherealLucifer 8 месяцев назад

No, OP, you moron, that isn't what happened here. A fetus doesn't have the same rights the rest of us do, if it did women would be charged with manslaughter if they had a miscarriage, and abortions would be universally illegal. Fetuses don't have the rights that we do, and they only have a tiny fraction of rights at all that are given only when their mother intends to carry them to term. They aren't protected by most rights until they're born, and none of them have the rights the rest of us have until they're eighteen. You're hearing what you fucking want to hear.

@llkiii3139 7 месяцев назад

@NottherealLucifer We can sidestep the entire "is the fetus a person" question. Because going down that path leads to all sorts of thorny issues. So I just grant that the fetus is indeed a person and go with the bodily autonomy argument.

@stringjeans7035 6 лет назад

Well, that went on for about 20 minutes too long.

@davidstorrs 5 лет назад

Tracie and Jen, you have the patience of ten saints apiece. I was convinced that the person was a prank caller; I probably would have hung up on them, and I'm impressed that you didn't.

@docwobbles 5 лет назад

HIM, not THEM.

@davidstorrs 5 лет назад

@@docwobbles Both are grammatically correct. I'm guessing you're uncomfortable with recent schools of thought about gender?

@GregoryJohnson-l1g 4 года назад

@@davidstorrs i think he pointed out "him" because the only ones who seem to fight abortion are the ones who don't understand how hard pregnancy is, of course this is not to say all people who don't understand it fight it, because I am a man and am strongly in favor of abortion

@emmakelly3111 5 лет назад

Body autonomy, HE CANT UNDERSTAND IT

@piotr.ziolo. 3 года назад

He rather expressed himself clearly. He values life of a human being more than convenience. If for instance you're irresponsible enough to have unprotected sex, you're healthy and the fetus is healthy, then terminating a human life (of your own offspring, not some random life) to avoid inconvenience for 9 months doesn't look like a very decent behavior.

@TheSecuritiesGuys 5 лет назад

"do you believe genecide is immoral?" um... who asks that question?

@supreme5580 2 года назад

John: uhh.. which God am I answering to? I'm gonna need your access code for security reasons...

@aitorgonzalez4657 5 лет назад

I am so glad that I watched these episodes regarding abortion, because now it's better to argue using the idea of consent, because that is what is one of the reasons why a women's right to choice is so important, because if she didn't consent to having something (or rather someone) use her body, she should have the choice to terminate the pregnancy. I also have to take note that many men who call in, like in a previous episode, seem to be OK with men not having to be forced to give up their bodily autonomy, but women should be forced to. Misogyny is alive and kicking in this country, and it's scary AF.

@grayson0916 5 лет назад

As someone who supports abortion being a right to women I think you’re argument as well as hers are seriously flawed. The pregnancy is a DIRECT result of the woman’s actions (unless she is raped). Meaning it’s not a violation. It’s a result. Sex is in fact optional, especially unprotected sex. If someone falls off a cliff but you catch them before they fall all the way, it’s not morally justifiable for you to then let go because they are now violating your body by depending on it to get back up onto the cliff.

@emilyelizabeth8654 5 лет назад

@@grayson0916 Having sex doesn't mean consenting to 9 months of gestation except under your bullshit patriarchal views. The conversation would be completely different if males got pregnant instead of females. You'd gain a thorough understanding of the meaning of consent and bodily autonomy shockingly fast.

@VYDZ 5 лет назад

@@emilyelizabeth8654 If roughly half of all pregnancies result in a male, isn't it a matriarchal society?

@emilyelizabeth8654 5 лет назад

@@VYDZ lolwut

@VYDZ 5 лет назад

@@emilyelizabeth8654 What determines whether men exist?

@JesseSelbert 5 лет назад

This needs to play on every tv in Alabama on a loop.

@christophzeit6282 3 года назад

Television? That's witchcraft

@AlexWh1 5 лет назад

As long as a fetus isn't sentient and/or conscious, I have no problem on DESTROYING it with unicorn farts.!...! That's why i'm pro-choice... the feelings that matter are the mother's... cause ..you know... she FEELS...

@VYDZ 5 лет назад

End of week 8. The embryo becomes a fetus, all structures present in rudimentary form. Week 14 or thereabouts. “Quickening,” the flutter a woman feels in her abdomen that will progress to squirms and kicks from within. Week 21. A fetus has a (very slim) chance of becoming a premature baby if delivered.

@AlexWh1 5 лет назад

@@VYDZ Demonstrate that a fetus can be sentient and/or conscious (which is ridiculous imo) and i'd still be pro-choice. Nothing has the right to live at the expense of someone else's health/body. Thinking otherwise is immoral and disgusting imo. Find an argument that's against the right of a woman to have an abortion that is NOT religious non-sense and then we will talk ;)

@VYDZ 5 лет назад

The neural circuitry responsible for the most primitive response to pain, the spinal reflex, is in place by 8 weeks of development, this is the earliest point at which the fetus experiences pain in any capacity.

@AlexWh1 5 лет назад

@@VYDZ And how exactly is showing that a fetus can have a response to pain demonstrates consciousness? (We basically don't know what consciousness is... let alone what is or isn't conscious.) And keep in mind that if this is your reason, you would also have to be against killing anything that has the capacity to respond to pain... I don't really know but, I guess that a lot of insects have the capacity to respond to pain... Btw... I woudn't use the word "experience" pain... because it carries a lot of baggage that doesn't necessarily applies to this situation.

@AlexWh1 5 лет назад

@@redmatrixx It depends. Yes if the doctors say that I have practically no chance of ever waking up.! Take my organs to save as much people as you can.! If my coma was probably temporary, let's say 9 months for example ;) .... then no. Because it would make my family and friends suffer greatly unnecessarily. (Does an abortion cause unnecessary suffering?) If the pregnant person judges that the suffering carried by this decision is worth the result, then it's their choice imo. I would not be surviving at the expense of someone else's health and AGAINST THEIR WILL.... So.... if that was an attempt to do an analogy.... then try again.! cause it fails miserably .!

@WolfgangBrozart 3 года назад

I'm a guy and this was frustrating to listen to.

@teresaamanfu7408 5 лет назад

John is not listening.

@MegaeffinGarchomp17 4 года назад

I feel like John refuses to think about anything in any detail past the black and white. He wants to just rely on religion

@transitionalspecies4365 5 лет назад

The commonality of these frustrating callers like John here is they are unable to listen and understand. He makes an argument, the hosts respond, he goes on to make the same point as though it wasn't already addressed. When they are challenged on their very argument's reasoning, they ignore the question. They aren't interested in or even able to have a dialog.

@deancyrus1 5 лет назад

Ok if men were the ones that got pregnant abortion would not be in question.

@joshotey2967 5 лет назад

Exactly! Men would just suck it up and drive on without whining and bickering about not being able to kill their children.

@fireball_55 5 лет назад

No, most men would never go through pregnancy and childbirth. They’re not willing to have a watermelon-sized object pass through their penis. Nor are they willing to have a team of medical professionals touch their penis during labor and birth.

@a.vulcan6282 4 года назад

The Corruption Men aren't even obliged by law to give their infant an ounce of blood to save its life, so what are you talking about?

@gabrieljordan8015 4 года назад

Doesn't the bible give instructions on how to perform abortions?

@josh2676 3 года назад

Every time the caller heard the word "rape" he just automatically thought they were talking about the abortion for rape victims. he literally could not understand any other context where the word rape could be used.

@lewisner 5 лет назад

With theists it is so often the case that they have to explain really simple ideas to them as though they were 9 year old children.

@gabrielesimionato1210 6 лет назад

Reductio ad Hitlerium. Every internet conversation which is long enough would call in Hitler as a comparison point.

@Alakaizer 4 года назад

Good old Godwin's Law.

@adamcroft80 8 месяцев назад

I don’t know how people can get soooo confused about this. Should you be allowed to consent to X happening to YOUR own body?? If Yes then everyone should have the same choice.

@mustacheofgold6846 Год назад

Saying aborting a fetus is the same as murdering an adult person is absurd to an extreme degree. I have 0 respect for these pro-life people.

@dannysouheaver1931 5 лет назад

Not his business, no matter what he thinks. Especially if religion based. Oh! Yahweh is the ultimate abortionist, according to the perfect book of morality.

@christabelidahosa8228 4 года назад

It doesn’t matter he has a right to say want he wants

@supreme5580 2 года назад

I remember growing up they would say the story where God hid babies from Pharaoh so he shouldn't kill him and bathe in their blood and God came and breastfed them... Believers out there you just need to pray God should give birth to all the babies that are being aborted case closed...

@MrChristerj 5 лет назад

It must be made clearer that those that are pro-choice are against an abortion after a certain time has passed. I do not know anyone agreeing to abortion very late i the pregnancy.

@joshotey2967 5 лет назад

Why not late in the pregnancy? Why should a woman have to give up her bodily autonomy then?

@druidriley3163 5 лет назад

I agree. Horrific genetic diseases and birth defects often don't manifest until the 3rd trimester. Fetuses die in the womb usually by strangulation, late in the pregnancy. A bad positioning of the child could endanger the mother's life. Why should the mother be stuck carrying these pregnancies to term for no reason?

@joshotey2967 5 лет назад

@@druidriley3163 Anyone that's done 5 minutes worth of research knows that most late term abortions are purely elective though. But hey, that's only about 15k a year here in America.

@flyguyry1 11 месяцев назад

Caller is ok to kill in self defense or war. So killing is not the problem.

@barborathecatfarmurbankova2650 4 года назад

I think the violinist scenario is the best philosophical explanation of bodily autonomy with regard to abortions

@apple1662 5 лет назад

This "man" is like so many that post here....totally unable to comprehend that a woman's body is a woman's body.....HER OWN BODY, with zero input from ANYONE ELSE or their opinions. It is very clear, that when he says that "I just think", quite clearly he does not think. His opinion, to him, needs to over rule everyone else's opinion.

@Multi1628 5 лет назад

~ Thank you, Jen and Tracie, for this archived video. ~ There is no man on this earth that has the right to force his will on any woman about what to do with her body in any way 100%. Cheers, DAVEDJ ~

@wellitstrue1138 5 лет назад

Oh you must be confused. He wasn't talking about her body he was talking about a separate body inside of her body

@johnbrodeur4641 4 года назад

I love their arrogance to tell you what you think. He is jealous that you can. He can't figure how that works.

@martinpenwald9475 5 месяцев назад

I think I see the problem. John : women ARE NOT incubators. They are human beings.

@erikafurberg6271 5 лет назад

How many fetuses will remember themself in the womb? Do they know they are a baby about to be born? Will they miss life? I don't think so. Will they know they are a unwhanted child? Might they end up in foster care or dumped in a garbage bin? Before u try to stop abortions try taking care of the babys of this world that already are born. When you've done that we can talk...

@Normalizing-polyamory 5 лет назад

Erika Furberg good point

@missminti 5 лет назад

ANTI's cant accept this though. They are taught only to find fault, to scorn and ultimately convert anyone that does not align with their beliefs. I cannot fathom how the bible even relates to the topic of abortion but they somehow apply it....

@emilyelizabeth8654 5 лет назад

@@missminti The Bible is actually very pro-abortion. It's not even a religious position to be against abortion; it's just pure patriarchy.

@rebekahplatzer6203 4 года назад

So killing the child is helping the child? I don't get it, explain please.

@erikafurberg6271 4 года назад

@@rebekahplatzer6203 there is no child. It's just the beginning of one.

@meridien52681 5 лет назад

Pick and choose. Say it together now, pick and choose, pick and choose...

@roisin9401 4 года назад

child birth is not an inconvenience, that shit is hard.

@shanewilson7994 3 года назад

Yeah, its a bit more than just inconvenient. There are short term, long term, and permanent health risks involved with carrying to term.

@hhmmhmhm5743 5 лет назад

The issue is that this guy couldn't understand that pregnancies are an actual violation of someone's body. The change the woman's body, feed off of it, live inside it, and can pose a danger to it. If you don't want to experience this sort of violation, much like in rape, you shouldn't be forced to. Simple.

@fyimediaworld 3 года назад

It is a "moral right" for an individual to choose to protect and defend their own autonomy. So let's be clear, pregnancy does not happen spontaneously. Pregnancy is the result of a foreign biological entity infecting the host. The host has final and ultimate right of refusal.

@michaelhunt372 2 года назад

And the woman's body helped the sperm fertilize her ovum, used the fallopian tube to transport the unborn, and engaged in cell signaling to communicate to the unborn where to go. It is very important to attribute fault correctly. The woman is 100% at fault is if she consented to the sexual act that created the baby.

@fyimediaworld 2 года назад

@@michaelhunt372 - none of that bullshit you just spewed matters. No living organism has an absolute right to any part of another living organism for survival. The woman whose uterus is being coopted has an absolute right at any time to withdraw consent, regardless of the outcome to the coopting organism. You can choose to donate a kidney, but you can also choose to not donate it, even if it means the recipient dies as a result of your choice.

@michaelhunt372 2 года назад

@@fyimediaworld I reject any comparison to transplants. They are are not a part of normal human development and often fail anyway. That said, if I caused your need, I absolutely have a moral obligation, even if not a legal one. Remember that for most of human history, the only form of sustenance available to newborns was breastmilk. And, in the developing world, that can still be the case. Actually, at this moment, it may be coming close to that here as well. A lactating state keeps many hormones elevated for months and increases the mother's caloric needs even more than pregnancy. Yet, I am sure most would agree that if there are no alternatives, a mother has no right to refuse to breastfeed, certainly if she consented to the sexual act that created the infant and knew there would be no alternatives when she consented to that act. If you think she should have such a right to refuse, there's not much I can say. But, I consider that conclusion so outrageous as to not warrant consideration. If you don't want a baby, the only moral option is to abstain from the sort of intercourse that creates babies.

@foilhattiest1 4 года назад

"Look, this is not hard" she said to the person whose brain doesn't work.

@Yo64130 4 года назад

Listening to this guy made me forget how to do basic algebra

@carolyns2074 8 месяцев назад

lol trying so hard for the “gotcha” moment and failed miserably

5 лет назад

Getting information into a guy that never stops talking.

@Lupinemancer87 5 лет назад

Theists refuses to socialize with Atheists. Theists asking Atheists: "Why won't you socialize with Believers?" Theists preaches about their belief. Theist asking Atheists: "Why don't you keep your Atheism to yourself?" I see a pattern here.

@osuzyq828 5 лет назад

I don’t know how you do this weekly. I barely made it to 12 minutes and had to stop. Don’t know if I can take the rest. 🤦‍♀️

@emmapurcell5501 2 года назад

It’s so sad that he needs consent spelled out for him like this repeatedly. These ladies were so patient and articulate and he still did not understand 😬

@RoseRedTiger 5 лет назад

I think the phrasing (of violation) confused the guy, like I understand what you mean, but also I understand why he was confused

@wentshow 4 года назад

Why don't either of the hosts point out that a fetus IS NEITHER A BABY NOR A PERSON YET? To call it either, is like calling a seed a tree. There's a big difference between the two. It doesn't matter if the fetus has a heartbeat; it doesn't matter if it feels pain. Neither of those means you have a person there yet. I've heard the argument everywhere that the woman is being violated by the fetus, the fetus doesn't have her permission to inhabit her body. IMHO, it just totally misses the point and is totally ineffective, and I don't think pro-choice women do themselves any favors by asserting it first and foremost. If you're not killing a person, or anything sentient, IT'S NOT MURDER. IT'S NOTHING LIKE GENOCIDE. Even if it's going to become a person later. Abortion's not even inhumane when no consciousness could have ever awakened in the body yet, it doesn't have a develop brain, a cerebral cortex, or even a working limbic system yet. It hasn't ever been in the human community. This seems a perfectly effective point to me. Does anybody have a counterargument to that? Why don't pro-choice women give this as their first argument?

@myfriendisaac Год назад

18:41 EXACTLY 🤷🏾‍♂️😂🚫✝️ It’s solely the mother’s decision! This caller is clearly slow, like many of his religious peers.

@NottherealLucifer 8 месяцев назад

@davidblack741Maybe if you ate a bullet you could stop being so butthurt about this. Women can get abortions all they want, you aren't the arbiter of abortions.

@Mxxx-ii9bu Год назад

John, so righteous, and so obtuse.

@mdaniel202 5 лет назад

Suppose someone comes to your house during a storm and you don't know them but you invite them in to wait out the storm the storm is over but they won't leave whether it's one month or 9 months you have my permission to do whatever it takes to get them to leave. A home invader or a womb invader makes no difference if you don't want them there get them out.

@bryanperkins4987 5 лет назад

Bad comparison, just like tracie's. Half of the "invader" is part of the owner of the home. The other half may or may not have been invited in by the owner. The "storm" can only be used as a comparison to being forcibly invaded. And the "invader" is only doing what nature intended to do when a homeowner willingly or not allows an invader in. It has no awareness that its invading a home for 9 months. Now dont get me wrong, I'm not against abortion. I am however against how you and Tracie are comparing pregnancy.

@mdaniel202 5 лет назад

@@bryanperkins4987 you're right it's not a perfect comparison. In my scenario you're dealing with two actual human beings. in The unwanted pregnancy you have one human being and one potential future human being. The rights and wishes of the living human woman outweigh all other concerns as regards to the pregnancy.

@bryanperkins4987 5 лет назад

@ Michael Daniel I agree the rights and wishes should be respected, but I think we shouldn't agree to the type of language Tracie is using to justify abortions. It leaves the door open to people not having any responsibility to their actions. At least concerning having irresponsible sex that leads to the whole abortion issue. I hope I worded that right

@nicolab2075 6 месяцев назад

@@bryanperkins4987 Who gets to decide what sex is 'irresponsible'? You? And if you agree that abortion is a right, so what if sex leads to an abortion?

@bryanperkins4987 6 месяцев назад

@nicolab2075 I don't know... Life, evolution, God, Gods'. If you engage intentionally in an act that can result in an outcome that you don't want, wouldn't that count as being irresponsible? If you and I willingly throw knives at each other and something terrible happens as a result of it, would we both be irresponsible for that? Are we entitled to have our terrible actions cured? We have the knowledge to enact abortions, but imagine a time before we had that knowledge. If one party (the male) wasn't forced to take responsibility and bailed, and they were alone with no tribe, what could the other party (the female) do? She would be in danger for years, from pregnancy, up until the child is old enough to take care or assist in taking care of itself. So, who would be more responsible for said pregnancy? We live in a society where we have the luxury of asking your questions, but there was a time when such knowledge was obvious. I time where one's feelings or ideologies truly didn't matter. The only thing that mattered was surviving, and whose responsibility was decided by nature or by some God that set up the scenarios

@sfprivateer Год назад

Listening to this guy is killing my brain cells. Even after 20 times of explanation, he still cannot get the difference between killing a born baby who is not violating anyone, vs losing the fetus because it was violating the mother's body.

@justsomeguy2825 5 лет назад

I'd like to pose this question in response to the body violation. A person has a property, on which people can violate if they trespass. The man has the right to shoot any trespassors dead with no legal reprecussions. Only problem, He doesn't put any signs up, nor is there a fence around the property. Does that mean that we should sell him the ammo to shoot and kill any unlucky shmuck who wanders on his property? Or, is it more moral to spend money to build a large fence outside his property and put signs around it? That way no one is likely to die.

@Rat-Baby 5 лет назад

This analogy doesn't really work because people who don't want to get pregnant do try to take steps to avoid pregnancy. The problem is that some people are poorly educated on how to use birth control or their birth control fails.

@rageofheaven 5 лет назад

You can't use deadly force with the intent of protecting property in most first world countries. Full stop.

@andrewagyeman3338 5 лет назад

If the thing being shot at has sentiment then it's reprehensible but if it's a thing with no ability to suffer pain,why not?

@jaege 5 лет назад

If you shoot someone, DEAD, who stumbles onto your property, fence or no fence there will be legal repercussions, likely an arrest and probably a trial. As least in the USA.

@jaege 5 лет назад

@Karla Jordan Depends on why he is there and what he is doing. You cant legally just shoot someone for the sole reason that they are standing on your property. Now, if your dog were to inadvertently maul them, well, whose fault is that?

@MegaeffinGarchomp17 4 года назад

Where in the bible does it state that abortion is wrong? Doesnt God pretty much encourage it when you start to get suspicious of your wife?

@iwritesongs6965 5 лет назад

I'm pro-choice but some of the arguments here were undercooked. Rights are more than a legal term, they are a philosophical concept that suggests a space of autonomy somehow intrinsic to the individual that cannot be infringed upon, even by law. A law(s) can be in conflict with a right and therefore they are separate concepts. Also, I don't know who constructed the "Fetus violating the mother" argument but it is a misuse of language. By definition, violation requires a moral agent breaking a rule. Unless it is an instance of rape, the woman is consenting to at least the possibility of pregnancy. In that case, the zygote, fetus, baby (whatever you call it) is either a moral agent who can make a violation or it is not a moral agent. If you give it moral agency (which a violator would require) it hurts your pro-choice argument. You'd have to call it an intruder or parasite in order to be consistent.

@druidriley3163 5 лет назад

Write songs - the fetus is using the mother's internal systems without her permission. No differnent that if someone stuck a needle in you and started to drain your blood for someone else. That's a violation. Clearly.

@joshotey2967 5 лет назад

@@druidriley3163 Just as much as the woman is using the mans sperm without his permission. Clearly a violation too by your logic. FAIL - AGAIN

@iwritesongs6965 5 лет назад

@@druidriley3163 That's a false equivalence. If you have consensual heterosexual sex as a woman you are consenting to the possible chain of events that creates a fetus. Obviously rape is different. The argument needs to be stronger on the prochoice side. That's a weak argument.

@iwritesongs6965 5 лет назад

@@druidriley3163 That's a false equivalence. I don't think you understood my objection.

@druidriley3163 5 лет назад

@@joshotey2967 - if a guy doesn't want his sperm misused, he should be careful that he doesn't leave it somewhere where it can be, right?

@christopherbarahona8983 3 года назад

I don’t know if I would use the word “violated.” No violation has occurred if sex was consensual .

@shanewilson7994 3 года назад

If the z/e/f is using the pregnant person's body without consent, then they are being violated.

@blackbuddha8167 5 лет назад

That guy was a joke 😂

@_Somsnosa_ Год назад

Anti abortion rhetoric boils down to simplistic, childish lack of nuance and refusal to see anything but "the big picture". It's essentially "aw don't kill the widdle bebe, it makes me sad"

@TheBeatle49 5 лет назад

I'm agreement with Tracie and Jenn. But better wording should be found re pregnancy is a violation.

@emilyelizabeth8654 5 лет назад

An unwanted pregnancy IS a violation. Many women die from pregnancy, and in general, it's a huge strain on the body. Pregnancy is not a cake walk, and an unwanted pregnancy is most certainly a violation of bodily autonomy. It's the most accurate wording.

@rebekahplatzer6203 4 года назад

@@emilyelizabeth8654 every unborn human dies from an abortion. Which is worse?

@emilyelizabeth8654 4 года назад

@@rebekahplatzer6203 Which is worse? Well let's see, on the one hand we have a fetus being stopped from reaching full development-something which happens without human intervention quite frequently in nature for all mammals. On the other hand, we have one's agency over one's own body stripped from them for the sick desire to elevate the so-called "rights" of a fetus over the "rights" of the person who is being forced to carry that fetus to term so that the world has YET ANOTHER unwanted child, who, statistically, will fare worse than their peers. So in this scenario, we've caused harm all around. Yeah, I'll go with terminating a fetus being preferable to forcing women to give birth to unwanted children.

@rebekahplatzer6203 4 года назад

@@emilyelizabeth8654 So to help the unwanted child I will kill the unwanted child...........for it's own good? Ummmm what!?

@emilyelizabeth8654 4 года назад

@@rebekahplatzer6203 A fetus is not a child. It is a collection of human cells. It does not have more rights than the host it relies upon to continue growing-just like how I'm allowed to wash my hands without calling it genocide for all the bacteria I'm killing.

@spicysmooth2 4 года назад

These two are so agreeable, so much patience!

@mickeydrennan1576 5 лет назад

Numbers 5:11-26. Literal instructions for abortion,right out of the bible.

@nevyn_karres 3 года назад

I am so sick of males thinking they have a say when it comes to a woman's body. HER BODY, HER CHOICE!

@mathildeyoung1823 2 года назад

Is it the woman's body killed in an abortion?

@danielschetrompf1861 5 лет назад

It seems asinine to say a woman is violated by a baby that she put in her body. If u really wanna go that route she's violating herself.

@emilyelizabeth8654 5 лет назад

Ah, so in your world, every sex act that could lead to pregnancy-even when protection or birth control is used-automatically counts as consenting to 9 months of physically taxing gestation?

@christopherprescott4221 5 лет назад

A fetus is not a person. Stop it!

@jimdeighan7078 5 лет назад

You know further watching this video has actually made me lose all respect for you guys. Are seriously saying, that if you found out that the child that you're potentially going to give birth to had green eyes instead of your preferable brown you would be justified in destroying them? That is horrific, and John is right here. Regardless of religion or atheism that is obviously f*cking disgusting and I would like you to explain why it isn't.

@ricardovonkrypton8908 5 лет назад

Well done. You missed the point.

@druidriley3163 5 лет назад

Jim - the point you missed was that the reason is irrelevant TO YOU. It's not YOUR business WHY she has an abortion. MYOB. Most people I see who want to know WHY a woman has an abortion or wants to have an abortion is simply because they want to mind her business for her. They want to be able to pass judgment on her. It really chaps these people when they're told they have no right to know why she's having a medical procedure.

@joshotey2967 5 лет назад

@@druidriley3163 Abortion is not a medical procedure. The practice of medicine is the treatment of an illness or injury. Pregnancy is neither. FAIL

@druidriley3163 5 лет назад

@@joshotey2967 - Having gallstones is neither an illness or an injury. Is the surgery to remove the gallbladder a medical procedure or not? Try again.

@joshotey2967 5 лет назад

@@druidriley3163 Seriously? Gallstones aren't an illness? That's why people scream and cry with pain and go to the hospital. Wow, just wow.

@1337GameDev 5 лет назад

Hmm, debating with fellow people in a group (I'm pro choice), their main argument seems to be: "Sure bodily autonomy is a thing, but why is the right to bodily autonomy, overrides the right for that fetus to live" They have stood firm saying it's a "human life" inside the womb, and even though it's not autonomous, why is killing it allowable? Why is the right to the woman's autonomy, valued more than the fetuses right to live? They seem to be stuck on the idea that it's a human being, and shouldn't be killed, even if it violates the mothers bodily autonomy. They specify that why can't bodily autonomy rights have a "special case" when you consent to sex (which is known to have a risk of pregnancy), and must "take care of" that fetus until it's viable? They compare it to being forced to take care of a kid when you consent to bring it home, and cant just throw it in the garbage, and they are technically "violating your rights" by forcing you to give them food, shelter, water etc or be punished by society. I hope i've explained their points well, and am just curious on how to really respond to these, as i'm not sure. Any thoughts?

@KreeZafi 2 года назад

"Sure bodily autonomy is a thing, but why is the right to bodily autonomy, overrides the right for that fetus to live" I think that's pretty plain and simple really, each person's right to life cannot come at someone else's expense. If someone urgently needs a blood transfusion, you're the only available match, and they will die without the transfusion, you still have the right to refuse. Another person has no right to use your body (take your blood, live in your uterus, whatever) even for their own survival. If they die as a result of your refusal that's unfortunate of course, but you still have every right to exercise your autonomy and refuse someone access to your body.

@riverschilling277 5 лет назад

I am confused as to why people like this invent these wild hypotheticals and then go on the offensive when they do get the answer they are looking for. It's so frustrating listening to people like him.

@wellitstrue1138 5 лет назад

It's so frustrating looking at a male that's dressed up like a female. Hashtag profile picture

@jiubboatman9352 5 лет назад

Why does this guy not grasp the idea of consent? Potential solution. The man has to be with the woman 24/7 during the pregnancy. Has to pay all her medical expenses plus maintenance costs and pay 50% of the child's maintenance until it reaches adulthood. I wonder what men's opinions would be then.

@a.vulcan6282 4 года назад

Jiub Boatman Still, the man wouldn't be risking his life or health, so I don't think that it's equivalent. Losing the right to body autonomy altogether is the only eqivalent.

@carnifexprincipium5586 5 лет назад

I am a little uncomfortable with applying the idea of autonomy in a black and white fashion. If there was an elderly or physically disabled person who depended on another person entirely for survival and that care taker killed them because they no longer felt like sacrificing their own personal autonomy most people would find that to be an heinous and wantonly selfish crime. I find it difficult to tell the difference when the fetus has reached a certain stage of development. A some what less extreme example is one of a person who needs an organ transplant and will die without it and there is only one other person who is capable of providing that organ without sacrificing their own life. I certainly would not argue that they should be forced to donate that organ legally but I personally would feel that refusing to sacrifice their bodily autonomy in this case was a morally reprehensible decision on their part.

@cnc_channel510 5 лет назад

Exactly my toughts. Usually I agree with most of what she says, but this one is terrible. Having a right to end a life because of ones autonomy has to be one of the worst arguments. I am not saying that I'm against abortion, there can be situations to justify it. One would be female being raped, also if it is discovered that baby would have some major dissability.. As for, well I had unprotected sex and now I want to abort this baby because I don't want to take care fom him as it will affect my life.. Fu** you.. Should have tought about that before.

@Rat-Baby 5 лет назад

The elderly or disabled person does not live inside the body of the caregiver and does not use their body's nutrients to sustain themselves. Additionally, a caregiver has options to terminate their legal responsibilities that do not involve killing the elderly or disabled person. Also, the elderly or disabled person is a sentient person who can think and feel.

@Rat-Baby 5 лет назад

Also, there are millions of people on the organ transplant list. If you're so concerned, sign up or shut up.

@carnifexprincipium5586 5 лет назад

@@Rat-Babyall very reasonable arguments. Where we really diverge is that I dont necessarily agree that a fetus is not concious and lacks the ability to think or feel. At early stages of development it clear this is the case but at later stages of development it is not clear at all. This is why I dont agree with treating it as an issue of simple bodily autonomy. As for the organ transplant it was clearly a hypothetical situation. I seriously doubt you actually thought I was arguing that there is a lack of organ donors whether or not that is the case.

@Rat-Baby 5 лет назад

@@carnifexprincipium5586 Most abortions occur within the the first twelve weeks of pregnancy, when fetuses very clearly lack the ability to think or feel. Later stage abortions typically occur when there is a serious medical problem which causes a wanted pregnancy to become too dangerous or because an unwanted pregnancy could not be ended sooner because of governmental restrictions. The solution to the latter problem would be to make birth control freely available for everyone who needs it and to make abortions more readily available during the early stages of pregnancy.

@Phreemunny 5 лет назад

Why do so many religious folks have such a difficult time understanding the concept of consent? Is it really that foreign to them, or are they playing ignorant in bad faith?

@fitzmullin6665 5 лет назад

This guy cannot see logic, he asked a question, when you try and answer, he continues to talk, not waiting for an answer. Let's face it, he is not interested in your view, but only interested in you taking his.