DO SPECS REALLY MATTER in Audio? - Understanding Speaker Measurements! 

In this video, we discuss the importance of proper specs and objective measurements in audio products to help make informed purchasing decisions. The article below demonstrates the peer reviewed science of subjective listening preference based on how a loudspeaker measures. Read Objective Loudspeaker Measurements to Predict Subjective Preferences bit.ly/3qipgCs

Probably easy to say measurements don't matter for youtube reviewers when there is a constant stream of products to demo arriving at their doorstep. For the rest of us we need all the info we can get to make an informed buying decision: measurements, listening impressions, demos, etc. Pooling as many resources as possible is what I try to do. This stuff isn't cheap and you want to get it right. Thanks a bunch for all the work you do!

I am not an engineer but I am a scientist in a field where double blinded controlled testing is the gold standard. Your video truly resonates with me. Thanks for all that you do for us on Audioholics!

When I watched Andrew's video I never once felt that he was saying measurements and specs don’t matter, but that ultimately there is a lot more to the equation of what sounds good to the listener than specifications and measurements. I have degrees in physical science and information technology, my entire profession is controlled by specs, measurements, algorithms, and usability but ultimately whether I'm right or wrong (despite there being a right answer) it still comes downs to how a specific person perceives the information or product that wins over the day. Specifications and measurements may help determine why something works or WHY someone likes (or will like) a particular sound but they NEVER determine WHAT a person enjoys hearing. When Steve Guttenberg got the ball rolling for enthusiasm over the Klipsch RP-600M by calling them "magical" and determined them as a Speaker of the Year...some of the more heavily spec-only folks spent way too much effort trying to dismiss these speakers based on their measurements alone and by questioning Klipsch's own specs. But you know what, I bought the 600M and they sound great. I do need specs and measurements to tell me what I potentially might like (or not like) for my me, my home, and my system. I don't need specs and measurements to tell me what I like...and some reviewers seem to not acknowledge this point enough either. There needs to be a happy medium in this discussion and I felt Andrew offered that.

I still don’t get how this keeps getting so misconstrued. The message isn’t specs don’t matter or truth in specs aren’t important. The message is don’t drive yourself crazy with specs and if you like what you have then enjoy it. And don’t let some know it all on the forums tell you that you’re wrong for enjoying it. I mean it’s really simple so I don’t get how it’s being misconstrued to be that specs don’t matter at all. Majority of people could care less about specs. They want a nice looking speaker that sounds good to them. They aren’t pulling out their UMIK’s and measuring bass extension. It’s home audio. It’s supposed to be fun and enjoyable. For nerds and hobbyist like us, yes, we want more and more accurate specs. But even if we get that, the majority of people still aren’t going to care.

As a scientist, I appreciate this vid and the channel in general.

Andrew’s continuous claim is being a “recovering audiophile”. He used to care about it all, but didn’t find joy. The message behind his channel is to look at equipment through a more emotional view and he is appealing to a different demographic; not just chasing the small details that intense audiophiles do. I respect the audiophile view, but I’ve started noticing how critical I was becoming about my, and others’, equipment. I was focusing on what I needed to get better sound rather than just sitting back and enjoying what I have.

Specs and measurements are useful guidance, and I have checked out specs on every speaker I have owned and many I have listened to. But beyond screening I would never select on specs, only on listening. There is room for both.

Hi liked this video and get how some people want to dig into measurements. I bought Heresy's based on Andrew's review and they are as he said and I love them. I did watch the other video on how the Heresy's measured poorly. Andrew to me is great for his opinion which I have found fits my ears well. There is room for all of us in this hobby which seems to be getting missed a bit. Best

Big fan of both channels, but is interesting to me, Robinson specifically states measurements are important factors and important in trying to select speakers to audition, but measurements don't matter more than what it sounds like to a person in their room. This video seems to have missed the point there. Also, Robinson opens up a measurements explanation section warning he's going to simplify things, and this video goes on to accuse a lack of understanding from oversimplification. Would have been a more compelling video as an expansion for the nerdier minded audience audioholics probably captures.

What most matter is how it’s recorded. Crappy recording wil sound 💩

I belive the bigger issue is standardisation of testing methods amongst manufacturers. Only then will the results be tangible/usable.

I'm with you Gene! Of course measurements matter. Great response and guys like you, Amir at ASR, and Erin are absolutely needed and appreciated as some of the best reviewers out there! Andrew made some good points however measurements can't be dismissed and certainly shouldn't be ignored by an audio reviewer. They are one of the only objective tools we have in audio.

I find this interesting. I enjoy and subscribe to both channels. I feel like for the MOST part Gene's audience is cometely different the Andrew's audience. I think Andrew is going more for a very casual person. The products he's reviewing are very different for the most part and much lower end price points. I think both these guys are right. The fact is different people will hear different things from the same set of speaker depending on variables, their own listening preferences, their hearing capabilities etc. Gene is obviously right - measurements matter. Full stop. Obviously. But Andrews implied point in his video was listen to something rather than focus just on specs, because your preferences and hearing may mean something that spec wise is superior MAY not actually be superior for YOU. And that point is 100% correct as well and I've had it happen myself. Interesting video Gene, I'd prefer a little less of a hot take on a vid but I'll keep watching regardless.

I'm all for conversation but at times this video seemed like a bit of a personal attack which came off a bit odd and unprofessional.

So I went and found the video and listened to it and agreed with much of what was said and disagreed with much more but overall his conclusion that specs don't matter is objectively incomplete and misleading completely. Here's what I comments on that video. Measurements DO matter. Check out Audioholics response video. I'm an electrical engineer. Now having said that, I'm not saying that you should listen to me based on that merit alone. But what you're describing is how subjective audio really is and how the listeners own in-ear transfer response along with the room transfer response can change the sound dramatically which I completely agree with, however if you can remove those subjective elements and measure a speaker objectively to gather information like dispersion, distortion, resonance, etc then you can remove those subjective elements from the equation and then you can compare speaker A to speaker B objectively without any of those biases in place. If you're only metric besides your subjective opinion is frequency response then all speakers are equal because frequency response can be tuned using an equalizer. But then those results are subjective based on how you measured and what type of filter you used etc. If I took 10 pairs of speakers and EQ them to measure the exact same and place them in the exact same position with AB tests you would still prefer different ones over others. Why is that? What then becomes the distinguishing factor besides subjective opinion or in other words how were you influenced to prefer one over the other? It's all in the other measurements. Dispersion Speaker break up modes (material selection) Frequency response Resonance Even down to the volume you played at as some speakers can handle higher volume while others distort or color the sound. And the list goes on and on...

I'm all for "trusting your ears" but not at the expense of fundamental understanding of the science and facts. There still needs to be a base of "correct". All too often I see people make terrible recommendations based on "ah don't worry about an SPL meter or tape measure, just use your ears"

Obviously you don’t buy a tire without kicking it first. Duh.

Gene, your car analagy does not work coz they already specify the minimum tyre requirement - theycome fitted to the vehicle. You start by saying that specs matter for ALL audio, yet you just specifically stuck to speakers. So I'm not sure whether the intention is to enlighten anyone or whether it's more to do with dumping on someone who has another perspective, equally valid and important. Yes there's a lot of science and research by many very talented and clever people over many years to get the tech and the sound to the stage we have today. That being said, most of the top players still to this day, do all the final tuning of their products, whether it be speakers or amps or DACas or source equipment, by EAR - they listen and fine tune. I replied to you regards this issue on your FTC video, but I am adding it in here coz I think it is more relevant. Gene, yes I agree that specs and measurements are important but the point being made with regards to speakers is that in this instance they should be used as a guide to define the limits of the speakers performance capabilities. As we know, a speakers measured frequency responce can change depending on the room and their placment within the room. That is NOT something that occurs with amplifiers and other audio equipment - whose measurements stay the same regardless of where they are placed. There are very few speaker manufacturers who actually specify a +/-3dB and a +/-6dB graph for both anechoic and in-room measurements. The lack of any consistency in this area really begs the question - is there a stated standard or isn't there ? Because that then leaves manufacturers to fiddle the books, so to speak. Example, Totem Acoustics Tribe towers, a slim floorstander with dual 4" bass/mid drivers and 1.3" tweeter has a stated response of 30hz to 30khz - hmmm, and pigs can fly too. That 30Hz figure to me is higely misleading because it does not say how many dB down at that frequency. Given the size of the drivers and the size of the enclosure - that would be at least 6dB to 8dB down at 30Hz. Totem is not alone in this regard - lots of manufacturers do this. IMHO, a speakers sensitivity, impedance and power handling specs are far more important - the frequency response graphs should be viewd only as a guide. BTW, I don't recall Andrew saying that specs did not matter.

I read Floyd Toole's papers from NRC and Harmon before I bought my last speaker system, 18 years and I'm still happy. Very good information especially for those new to the hobby

I think Andrew's point is 'should speaker measurements matter to you?' When well regarded brands Kef and B&W for example, manufacture speakers I already know extensive engineering has gone into their product. For this reason, I'm only interested in basic specs to make sure they're compatible with my equipment ( min impedance, min power required etc.) ultimately listening to the speakers in my room is the most important thing to me. When you're purchasing a Car, do you care what the bore and stroke of the engine is? compression ratio? final drive ratio? No probably not, you read reviews and test drive the car to see if you like it. I don't think anyone's saying measurements don't matter, they obviously do. But which ones should be important to you?

Measurements are (almost) everything, not just specs that can be manipulated. I'm honestly shocked how ppl buy other reviewers BS listening tests. What goed is a video of how a speaker or an amplifier sounds. Especially when you know that it's heavily financially biased

I would love to see a blind test where you rate speakers based on numbers and then rate the same ones by listening to them.

Hey Gene. Great explanation and good video! Can you show us in a video how to take measures of a loud speaker on and off axis? I’ve been wanting to do this for a while and would like to get it right.

The biggest problem with Audioholics is they don’t have the time to review a lot more equipment. It’s a shame that there isn’t a bigger audience for really science focused audio reviews in the consumer space. I think part of the problem is that it seems every audio reviewer wants to make a 7 page essay describing the product in every detail. Honestly you can just tell me the technical specifications of the components, break down various technical graphs showing how it measures and explain why it’s a decent component or not. I guess that’s not as exciting for most people though. It’s funny when you look at pro audio it’s like they are always 30 or 40 years ahead of the home audiophile market. Problem is that a lot of audiophiles aren’t very scientifically literate in my experience. I’ve met audiophiles who were successful autobody shop owners or had a good city job driving a garbage truck with a full indexed pension those are the guys dropping insane amounts of money on cables or vibration isolation for their DACs.

there is no linear relationship between the objective quantities we can measure and the subjective quantities we hear; you are completely wrong, and your tyre analogy is totally spurious...Please stop spouting logical fallacies!!

Excellent review on specs do matter. You make so much sense..thank you for sharing your thoughts and knowledge.

Specs are most important but if doesn’t work in your room I think the next important thing is companies like svs with their return policy.

Audiophile: A person who spends hour after hour alone, isolated from family and friends, spending big bucks, feverishly picking pepper flakes out of fly shit on an obsessive quest for that which is unattainable. Do audiophiles ever enjoy the music they play in order to dial in their audio systems? Do audiophiles ever enjoy the equipment they have? It seems like their focus is always not what I have, but what I have to get.

Gene, excellent video -- snake oil topic. First -- spec DO matter Quality of the components MATTER Design DOES MATTER Measurements DO MATTER -- however --- when looking for a new speaker, the only way that you can truly test the speaker is in your listening room at your house. Reflection, refraction, standing waves, type of music, and what will be driving them. The best speakers in the world will not sound good on a 3-watt tube amp with excellent specs. 3 watts just will not give you 120db dynamic range. Yes, efficiency, node, and lobes in the cross over frequency, dynamic range, true frequency response (30HZ to 20,000HZ just does not tell you anything.) are VERY important to review when shopping for a speaker. I want to see more "visual" graphs in reviews so I can make quantitative decisions about a speaker's performance. Then I need time with the speaker in my house for qualitative decisions. Love your channel, always have great content and truthful reviews -- thank you.

doing that tire comparison is NOT a good example!!!! Like really lets try something realistic!!!! The other you tuber you are trying to criticize is saying that the bottom line is your ears and your room which is the truth! And yes specs matter, but like he said there has to be a testing STANDARD, which there is not, from one manufacturer to the next! So bottom line again is your ears!!!

I think you may be taking things a bit out of context. I don't think the other reviewers are saying measurements don't matter. The problem is we can't measure everything. And from what I see, people that are really into specs don't like to hear that. For example, I'm very sensitive to timbre, especially in the upper frequencies. I can't tolerate a system where cymbals don't sound like cymbals, or vocals have un-natural sibilance. This type of thing can't be measured, so I have no choice but to listen. It would be a lot easier if these qualities can be measured. Also, most of us don't seek or ignore good measuring gear. Most of my stuff probably measures very well. One thing I get asked about is the type of measures I take to control the sound qualities I find important. I get, "can't you just EQ the troublesome frequencies?" Unfortunately, no. I have a Behringer deq 24/96 digital EQ and a dbx analog EQ (I don't remember the model.). Neither one does anything to fix the problem. Room treatments don't help either. For me, its all about picking the right components. I also have a counter to your car examples. Some of it I agree with. There are some critical design specs you need to have, but they don't give the complete story. You can have a bunch of cars with very similar specs, but they all drive and feel different. I don't mean to nit pic, but you are a spec guy. The speed rating on a tire is not really a speed rating. Its a heat dissipation rating. For example, a V rated tire isn't speed rated for 149 mph. The rating means it can dissipate heat for 1 hour straight at 149 mph without failing. Its not an indicator of any other type of performance like handling or braking. Also, tire companies play the amp power rating game just as well as audio companies. Tire companies are responsible for rating their own tires. Over time, tires get re-rated to be competitive with the competition. For example, Michelin had a tire that had a 180 treadwear rating. They upped it to 280, then 350, then 400, etc.... Exactly the same tire. No changes were made to it. Just thought you might find it interesting. Maybe we can start a massive truth in tire ratings campaign.

Thanks for the update on this topic. When I listen to the other RU-vid reviewer's post I knew you would respond. As an engineer we start with theory then adapt our design with the practical knowledge that we (our colleagues and peers) have experienced. In the end we have to stand behind our design. Without specs that is near impossible to do. The culture of the audio/video industry seems to be marketing driven probably because they do not have, cannot afford or do not want to measure.

Uh oh. Bout to have an East Coast vs West Coast rap battle in the speaker game.

My algorithm to buy audio gear: - look at how it measures; - look at how it looks; - consider where you will listen to the Product; - go and have listening sessions at dealers and try to make it as close as possible to your setup; - ask your dealer to try it at home; - if you love it than keep it. So specs don’t matter to decide whether you like a product or not, they don’t matter to make the final decision to keep it. IMHO Specs matter to narrow down the options you have, especially if you are not a reviewer with access to a ton of gear. So from my perspective Andrew is right on that however incomplete when saying it specs do not matter at all. I also don’t think Gene or Andrew would define an audio product good or bad based on measurements as they wouldn’t solely based on their looks. That aspect, measures vs how the product makes you feel was very well explained by Andrew on his video. I like Gene’s approach of providing the contradictory as that helps buyers to have different views for a very passionate and very subjective topic avoiding also to jump on the hype train that we see sometimes. Very often I don’t agree with Gene but it adds value to the purchasing and keeps my balances in check. That’s why I subscribe both :)

I think your both right. Specs can put you on the right path to narrowing your search. But at the end of the day you have to find speakers that excite you.

Tyre manufacturers uses standardised methods to test their products. Bridges are built using standardised formulas to calculate bending moments, stress, strain, and deflection... I agree with your views. But the real issue is standardisation.

Measurements are objective. Listeners are subjective. We should live somewhere in the middle.

What about the guy that sells speaker kits and upgrades? How much difference can someone make over the manufacture by upgrading crossover components?

4:05: HOW does a Klipsch speaker with a 12 inch woofer have such terrible bass response below 60 Hz? Klipsch Heresy IV is a $ 3000 speaker?!

There's also a fallacy to mistake controversy among experts with controversy in an entire field. For example, just because there's a debate over, say, dB/W/m vs dB/2.83V/m type sensitivity ratings, doesn't mean that the measurement is useless/debatable. And it does seem like a straw man to focus on a FR curve and ignore dispersion, distortion, and other such measurements. Some people may just prefer low distortion + wide dispersion, or they may prefer tube distortion + narrow dispersion (high separation). But even in all of these cases, measurements can help people narrow down their shopping lists, if not make a final determination without an audition, if reliable measurements were more universally available. OTOH, I have experienced for myself, preferring speakers or headphones that didn't seem to measure as well as another pair. But I still can see that, plotted along a trend line, the better something measures, the more likely I am to prefer it in the general case. And I arrive at that from looking at measurements done well after I've had experience with gear, not by looking at measurements and then deciding. Then again, I understand some of the backlash to objectivism. I see one YTer who tries to measure speakers, but uses a naive approach and all of his response curves look similar - clearly his room is dominating the data, not the speakers. And sometimes the community at ASR will obsess over achieving measurements well into the inaudible range, like hyping a $1200 amp with 0.009% THD over a $400 amp with 0.05% THD.

I liked what you said about needing "more" specs. But do you think there are perceptions from audio reproduction for which there is not yet any technology able to measure it? I read a comment on a forum somewhere written by Sean Olive, so I assume he knows what he's talking about. I can only paraphrase by foggy memory so, if I make no sense it's my fault. But Sean said something to the effect that in speaker or headphone measurements, we don't yet have a method of measuring "resolution" in sound (not bitrate), which I believe is also what we call "detail" in sound (again, I may have misremembered his exact message). But I believe detail is a legit property in sound reproduction, not something imagined by overzealous subjective reviewers. I believe I can clearly differentiate those headphones with higher detail. Although, I suspect it may also be true that my own perception of "detail" resides inside a narrow freq band in the upper-end somewhere. It's possible that if I took the Focal Stellia, (the most highly detailed sound I've ever heard) and use an EQ to slightly reduce a frequency range somewhere around 1K, I might not find them so detailed anymore.

Specs are the reason that a great speaker is greater than the sum total of its parts. Just like a diamond cannot be judged upon a single surface of a single cut creating a single facet. Because the rest can simply be abysmal. For any product to be worth its salt it excels in each "facet". Design Specifications Price Value Features Warranty Workmanship etc etc etc They ALL add up to the product as a whole. For instance who would purchase a speaker that sounded good in the demo room, looked really nice, had a spec sheet full of shiny numbers but was sold "as-is" for goodness sakes!? Now, what if the speaker looked great, sounded great in your home, carried a good warranty but had less than desirable specifications? Would that not give you cause for concern as to the warranty claims and reliability and other random hassles that may crop up? Granted, the specs would need to really be sending some red flags up in a major way in THAT particular instance but that example is a stretch that I would imagine is hardly even plausible. Personally, when in the market to buy, I "look" at each speaker initially with my eyes closed! Then I consider the specs in order to get an accurate idea as to what it might take to power them with sufficient headroom and then the last deciding factor is how well they jive with my own tastes. Perhaps that's why there are so many black rectangles in the market, until you get either in to the showy garbage like the final generation of boomboxes. Or the other end of the spectrum where they actually set the stage for possibly designing the room around them. (I'm looking at you.... Wilson). Just my two cents. -✌🏼

Ill reply like i did on andrews video; If you know how the speaker measures and you can measure the speaker in your room you can learn what YOUR ROOM is doing to the speaker and you can address the faults in your room/better speaker placement. If the speaker can play to 40 hz flat but you have no bass at 80 and 120 something is wrong with your room configuration, not the speaker.

The problem with specs is that you can't actually hear them all in reality, and the method they're determined varies from one manufacturer to another. Otherwise, yes they matter, but they're rarely accurate. Definitive Technology does criminal things with their specs, as does Klipsch with their sensitivity exaggerations.

Great Measurements don’t mean shit if you don’t enjoy listening to it.

Buying speakers and subwoofers are far more confusing than my maths book.

Video is 100% on point and specs and SCIENCE matter otherwise it's all uncontrolled chaos. And obviously a neutral measuring speaker will always have the best chance to sound the best chance in any environment, including over other speakers, and to most people...which is why this matters.

Specs: No Measurements: Yes However, so many people think a single on-axis measurement is what that means. It’s not, it’s the listening window, the early reflections, the directivity control, etc.

Three videos about the exact same topic, from three of the most popular channels in audio, in just a few days. Sheer luck? Nope! These people are definitely know each other, calling each other, copying each others ideas, while some simpletons believe they're 100% on their own. Same pattern, several times, with other topics too. All you naive people out there, just wake up. They're simply winding you up and you dance on their tempo...

I think Robinson did not convey his message well. But he had a point. We know from years of neuroscience research that expectation bias is stronger than reality. Our brains "shape" what we experience to match our expectations. And to a very large degree this is stronger than measurements. Look at double blind wine testings. Or the famous experiment with the Stradivarious and Guernery violins costing millions each, compared to newly made high end violins. When both the player and the audience where blind to the violin, both the soloist and the audience preferred the 40k new violin than a 12 million Strad... So yes, measurements do matter. But biases can crush them.

Thanks for taking the time to illustrate how measurements correlate to something that will most likely sound good. Point taken, that being said I remember the Krell (I think from the early 2000's.) that had outstanding specs. But I did not like them, and preferred the sound of the earlier models that did not measure as well. That being said, before even considering a product I start by studying its measurements. I like an understanding of its engineering and performance level. In short, is there some sort of objective proof of their claims and design goals.

You're oversimplifying what he said to misrepresent his video. He a gave balance view of specs, and a realistic view of an individual sound "quality". You're the guy who trashed soundbars even though they can sound very good, even excellent.

Why did you steal the titlle from AR? That feels like a cheap move.....

Thanks for the video Gene. I agree with you. Knowing that Audioholics is focused on science not audio snake oil is what got me following you years ago. I do agree that we need more standards in specs and reviews should call out when specs are misleading or beyond the audible range but specs help us compare different products. I also agree that chasing specs so much you don't enjoy the content is not a good approach. People can still appreciate products that may not measure as good as other products. When you review products or talk about the science with Matthew remind people to put things in perspective. We can't all have perfectly measured products and perfect rooms. Thanks for great content and keep listening.

Specs and measurements are invaluable, especially the ones that go beyond mere frequency response because lets face it: with modern DSP and room correction, that gets bludgeoned into the desired shape anyway. Stuff like distortion behavior, driver headroom, impedance curves, dispersion etc. are fare more interesting. Absolutely agreed on needing more standardized measurements, less PR BS (hi AVR power ratings!) etc.

I think specs are good on paper. Once the speaker is in my room and my family and friends are listening they don't ask me what the specs are. They listen and comment if they were enthralled by what they heard or not. Not even once have I been asked on what my speakers sensitivity rating is. I kinda agree with Andrew's take on it. You listen to music... Not to specs.

Thank you for making this. I saw the video you spoke about. For someone who has a limited technical understanding of the issues coupled with a profession that allows him to home audition hundreds of audio product combinations I suppose specs don't matter. He can hit and miss until he lucks out on the right combination of gear, room, and preference. Most of us don't have such luxuries which is why accurate specification are invaluable to making informed decisions.

Honestly it’s like Andrew Robinson sneezes and there is a video about it

I do think Andrew simplified, but I reduced much of his vid (& subsequent comments) to 2 points: You can't trust all MANUFACTURERS' reporting ***AND*** Even proper metrics are not the final arbiter (i.e., your room, other kit & preferences matter). I had a look back at Andrew's video...at 2:32 he (like you) acknowledged Harman! [specs] "Pretty simple and helpful right? Well yes and no because not every speaker manufacturer measures their loudspeakers in exactly the same way, nor does every manufacturer have access to exactly the same facilities. For example Harman, the parent company of JBL and Revel, have an anechoic chamber that they use to measure their loudspeakers and aid in their designs whereas" [me paraphrasing] others don't or won't report. I commented on his vid [after lead in of much kit I have and constantly improve]: "HOWEVER, no manufacturer Speaker Frequency Response graphs were consulted! Yet, I DO LOOK at reviewers with standards (e.g., Audioholics) to determine raw Capability (subs that hit nnHz, etc.).." Be Safe (and Keeping Listening!)

I'm glad you made a counter argument to that video. I'm sure he's a nice enough guy but he he's off base on much of what he talks about audio wise. Watch his video on the greatest speakers of the past. Its clear looks are the single most important thing to him.

Yes sir! Specs do matter. Not unless, you want to keep being unsatisfied of something you heard, but just can get it right buying unnecessary gear until the day you grab a little education about spec/measurements. Specs will change your listing life around. Good review Sir 👌👍👍

I have a question and I couldn't find the answer anywhere. I've had a 5.1 since 2001. I still have the speakers and they've been great. I barely scratched the surface of Hz and db's. My floor standing speakers are the Sony SS-MF400H my center channel is a Bose VCS-10 my rear's are Bose 201 Series IV. My question is what be the best frequency to put them at. Should 80 be good for the back and center channel.

Measurements do matter but I'd bet 95% of people buying audio products don't really care or understand them. If they think it sounds good to them or its got the right name or a good following or a high price tag so they can stick their nose up to budget buyer....then its good enough. Companies should be held to a consumer protection standard where they must provide a set of standard measurements that are done to other standards so they are accurate. This at least will ensure people are getting what's listed on the box. Now dictating things like a flat response or off axis response and spectral decay etc. seems unreasonable and would require more engineering and quality parts for all manufacturers. Good bye cheap speakers, and there are A LOT of cheap speakers that measure terribly (Micca RB42) and people really like them. There's lots expensive speakers that don't measure well and people like them (Klipsch RP600M, KEF LS50). There's speakers that measure quite well (JBL Stage 130) and people DON"T like them. If good measurements matter then there are A LOT of expensive speakers out there that are robbing people blind. If a respected persons unmeasured opinion of audio gear is irrelevant or flawed then RU-vid reviewers are lying to everyone and wasting their time. Sorry Zeos you recommend lots of gear that measures poorly and judging audio gear by ear is fraud so I can't watch your channel anymore. I'll just go on Audio Science Review buy an amp, DAC, and speakers that measure well and I'm guaranteed to like it.... We'll see, getting the debt card out right now! Telling me what my system should sound like is like telling me what my food should taste like. Peoples lives rely on car tires being accurately rated, this is not the case with audio, only peoples wallets are in danger ...lol. I agree the audio world needs international standards to protect buys from fraudulent specs and gear. But not how things should sound. Hopefully more audio gear in the future will be capable of self correcting DSP. Hook your system up press calibrate, the system reads the room makes adjustments and good to go.

New intro chime 👎🏻 Old intro chime 👍🏻 Video and information 👍🏻, outtakes 👍🏻👍🏻

There can't be many audio enthusiasts who would disagree. But, this is RU-vid. Countless channels on it hosted by anyone who wants to, all have varying levels of understanding the subject at hand. (They're not doctors but they play them of TV) You'll wear yourself out trying to debunk them all. But, well said. Specs are important.

You touched an important point here: the reason why many believe that specs don't matter is because there is no standardization and everybody makes up their own standard, making it a lot harder for consumers to understand what all those fine prints mean and why 2 seemingly similar pieces of hardware are actually very different.

You are, of course, correct. And your argument can be used in every product. From TVs to sneakers, insurance to cruise liners "specks" or contract wording matters e most don't care...

No specs don't matter --

Specs and measaurent's certainly mattered when diagnosing faulty electronics in early 2000's, largely due to high failure rate of Capacitors made with defective electrolytic capacitors made between 1999 and 2007. This period was named Capacitor Plague for good reason, as this affected

When I’m compiling a short list of speakers to audition prior to purchase, of course I scrutinise the specifications/measurements. Vut my final purchasing decision is always dictated by my ears and wallet. In my humble experience I’ve found that often a speaker’s acoustic and harmonic properties hold little reflection of it’s published measurements. As regards ultra low bass. There are only a few musical instruments that dip below 40hz. Pipe organ. Euphonium. Acoustic double bass. Electronic synthesised music. So, again, in my humble opinion, the need for ultra low bass in musical reproduction is not paramount. My 2 channel set up includes multiple subs which don’t dip much below 20hz. When it comes to home theatre and special sound effects like the one you mentioned in that Batman film, then I guess that being able to get down to 12hz and lower is of higher priority to the home cinema guru, which I’m not.

Specs matter but comparing it to matters of safety shouldn’t be relevant; you may as well compare specs of a pacemaker with specs of a shoe - I know, not in the same ballpark. I’ve recently delved into this world and, you’re right, the biggest problem is that there is no standardization. So you can measure all day long and optimize for what you think is objectively correct, but it’ll make some stuff sound great, and some stuff sound like crap. Knowing what I know now, I believe the correct approach to go about setting up a system is study the specs based on what you need, then set it up based on how you like the sound. You said it yourself, you like the 12hz rumble in the dark knight rises - is that accurate? Would you have experienced that in a movie theater? Did Christopher Nolan create it to sound how you are hearing it? Answer to all of those is probably not.

Floyd Toole, Audioholics and Kenny Brown Performance are pretty much my only reading material, all I care about is maximizing my speakers and cars performance!

A bit disingenuous to compare bridges and cars to speakers as the former have a safety critical function. Speakers vary wildly in specs and price. Reviewers on RU-vid can't possibly measure every single speaker in the world. So did the guys at x company with their $1000 speakers do more research than y company with their $500 product? Maybe. But at each price point are they worth the money? Unless you understand what each individual spec means (rating, scales, materials, etc) and its effect on the whole system, it doesn't tell you anything unless you listen to them in your situation with your content. Like everything else, something could be the best that tech can offer, but sometimes it doesn't suit the market. That's why sometimes even the top brands of anything produce duds that barely sell and become commercial flops. Of course you need the numbers to give you a guide, but if you don't know whether a silk tweeter will perform better in your situation than a titanium one, it doesn't tell you much besides the general character of either material. How would you know if your room is super dead acoustically? For the average (and slightly above) consumer, the specs, though important, only give a snippet of information, and are only really useful if you have a reference point. E.g. Want to enhance your TV listening, do you need 50W or 100W, two-way or single full range? Depends on what is already in your TV, and if you're engaged enough to know so your don't end up spending more than you need to.

Yes, I trust YOU Gene 😎 Your enthusiasm onto this topic is very addictive…. Keep on your legendary work Gene 🥳 But I also see Andrew’s point of view. Focus on enjoying the moment, relax and forget about time and space, just enjoy the music 😋

You americans are all about the bass:) BTW who's he talking about in this video, he's often referring to somebody that says measurements are not important? Also, in my experience, I sometimes went with a piece of hifi equipment that measured worse than some other, because it sounded much better to me. So I think the point is that we don't have nearly enough measurements to say this speaker will sound better than some other, only based on a bunch of numbers. Another question, how we (99% of people that have hifi systems in our living rooms) should do a "controlled listening test", and "level match" something? I need 10min to unplug and plug new speaker/amp/dac.

I think the tests and measurements that Amir is doing on DAC's, reclockers, purifiers, power conditioners etc is very important to the budget conscious like me by saving us wasting money on "improvements" that we don't need and wont make much difference. I bought budget DAC recently that every reviewer rates highly. In fact it actually measured well by ASR and in some cases better than a lot more expensive DACs that have rave reviews. But I honestly didn't notice any difference in SQ which gives me some comfort that spending a lot of money on a DAC is better spent elsewhere, in my case a new Amp (with good DAC chips on board).

As long as they are TRUTHFUL, yes! Would you eat food with an inaccurate label?

I'm neither rich nor fortunately am I close to being poor. Usually for me with most things that I need and want the formula is as follows. This applies to all of the major expenditures in my life. I recognize my need or want. I set my budget(what I can comfortably afford). I do my extensive research and educate myself on what is available for my budget. I make my purchase(usually a sales price) comfortably feeling that I'm getting the most for MY money. I then enjoy what I have done. I realize that there are others that may have more resources or place a higher importance on something than I do. So i.e., I stay in my lane. Yes specs matter to me. But staying within my budget matters also. Things change so fast and I personally cannot keep up with all the changes. There is always going to be a bigger house, newer car, more expensive suit, higher specs on TVs, speakers and so on. If you cannot be happy with what you have, you will always be chasing the next "thing". I choose to happy with what I have over chasing the proverbial carrot of never enjoying the moment. Following this formula leaves me happy and satisfied with what...I did. This is just my take, to each there own. Be happy people!

specs would not terribly matter if companies were not making an obscene amount of money preying on gullible and uninformed people. but, since this is not religion with unchallenged claims companies must support their advertised products with hard measurements following the established industry standards (even the poorly defined or slightly arbitrary) which many of them do not!

I'm a little of column a and b with both of you guys. I have only followed Andrews channel for about 2 years now but his everyman approach to enjoying your system and not letting it dominate your every thought is terrific. I am more of a listener than a spec guy...that said I definitely reviewed the specs of my speakers and other equipment before setting up my theater. I do believe overall sound and how the equipment works/fits in your space is way way more important than the numbers on the box. It is a shame you guys have a negative situation. I think terrific advice comes from both sides. It is my opinion that you cater to more the upper end of midfi into the hi fi and beyond (harder core enthusiast) and Andrew is set to help most entry level to upper mid fi guys n gals (casual to slightly more than casual enthusiast) with great advice.

Excellent discourse. This underscores our profound appreciation for double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trials in the field of biomedicine. It is crucial to acknowledge that even engineers, despite their rigorous methodologies, can harbor unconscious biases. The most robust strategy to mitigate such biases is through the implementation of blinded, controlled testing.

Definitely paying attention to specs, always have. However, today, few are doing any independent testing of audio gear (you being an exception). Beyond just the specs, I'm really into trying to understand what the specs mean, what ones are really important and when, how the measurements are made, etc. Most RU-vid reviewers are just going with what they hear, but I don't know what that is, I'm not them, I don't have their equipment and how are they setting it up and where? Too many variables. Thanks for this video and others.

The problem with audio purchases is that it's both - there are some basic fundamentals like power and sensitivity that absolutely matter for generating a desired SPL within a certain space. There may be elements of matching a frequency response to the room characteristics. But also everyone has slightly different preferences - what you enjoy does not have to be technically "perfect". But everything tangible is measurable in some way. Having specs and making selections on specs is not about having good specs or bad specs, but having the appropriate specs for the circumstances. I guess you could liken it more to buying shoes. Shoes are built to specs - some are larger, some are smaller, some are wider, some narrower, etc. A size 10 shoe isn't a better shoe than a size 9. A wide fit shoe isn't an inherently bad shoe. And if the size and fit are accurately described by the manufacturer (sadly, that's not always the case), you can get a shoe that fits by knowing the dimensions of your foot. Although even amongst shoes that all fit, you might find one more comfortable than another due to the construction. but shoes that fit are always going to be more comfortable than ones that don't - and you can know that from specifications.

I wonder if he is referring to Steve Guttenberg. While I like Steve, he is incredibly naïve when he makes critical arguments. He is good at sharing his experiences of various pieces of equipment, but he seems not to know anything about basic research methods and psychology. I like some of his videos, but he is a purveyor of weak critical thinking.

Stop you’re all right! Everyone’s view point matters, and it is up to the consumer to decide what information they need to make a purchasing decision. Where spec come into play for many individuals is based upon the quality $$$ of the product, if you are spending $50 K on a system spec’s matter vs $1 K system. Most individuals do not have the background to understand spec’s and rely on experts to steer them in right directions. But until you test out the speakers in your own listening room usually will tell the listener if the sound appeals to the them. It’s complicated!

I totally agree,and to add to your point. Accurate measurements could help that person who likes a tube sound identify what he likes about a certain model and actually compare it to other models from other companies. Today we don't have the great audio stores of past (at least where I'm from) to go and listen to different amplifiers and speakers hooked up to whatever you wanted.this amplifiers that speaker,no wait let's try that amplifiers and this speaker. Today measurements are more important than anything simply because the vast majority of people will buy things online without actually hearing them. Whatever shows up is what you get. Maybe you like it but maybe you don't. What a waste of time if you don't, ship it back,wait for a refund etc. I'm not saying Accurate measurements will stop people from buying equipment they don't like, but i do think in this on line world it would help people speed up the process of finding gear they truly enjoy.

This must be about Andrew Robinson. I listed to his channel as well and realized that this video came out about a week after his. I did also think his stance that specs don't matter is a bit extreme. I do understand that sometimes manufacturers fudge data to make their stuff seem better, but objective measurements by independent 3rd parties should give you at least some idea about some aspects that you would care about when shopping.

I don’t discredit specs at all, but when it comes to speakers, what I hear matters most. I’ve heard and gotten very good measurements but they just don’t sound good. What I got from his video is: yes you can pay attention a lot of attention to the specs, but 1 don’t let it dissuade you from a speaker that you want to try or have, 2 if that speaker sounds bad in your listening space, maybe it’s not the speaker for your space, 3 sometimes a speaker can sound better than what the specs would lead you on. I agree that there should be more accurate and consistent specs, but at the end of the day, it’s how you appealing the sound of the speaker is. Specs matter, but specs are not-end-all-be-all. I have experienced the exact same thing he was talking about, a speaker that sounds great but has measures kinda badly.

I didn't realize this situation was even in play, disregarding that. I know this gentleman does put this out there, but I see that the topic itself coincides with what he is fully aware of. He has a video which is a year plus old, he talks about how the harman test itself has really swayed his beliefs and not only himself but the test was done with speakers that people in that room listening designed and they were unable to target what speaker they were listening too. I am not sure if he is referring specifically to throw specs out the door, but under the conditions of the harman test if you do not know what you are listening to and yet you prefer a speaker over the actual best sounding one available it does make some sense in the commentary that is being made. It's a shocking revelation that the people who designed a speaker and have listened to it so much were unable to determine something they made sound the way it does. I am not one to disregard measurements, however I think the ideology behind these statements is that even a not so perfect sound may sound good to you and that's that. Let it be. I think as well in consideration for someone new to audio, who is primarily only looking into reviews to choose what they want needs to have a major consideration that the person knows no better. In the case of they may have never owned a pair of speakers. I'm not saying give the guy a speaker with horrible measurements and he will love it and that may be the case when you have no other knowledge on what to go off of. Rather that if he bought something from a main stream manufacturer in todays market he would enjoy it and be unaware of any of its flaws. Only once you become a seasoned veteran and have done your paces with many speakers and understand the measurements those speakers come with that you yourself would be able to discern what is for you for certain. Some people wish to not do this and if it sounds good to them screw it. Look on the complete opposite spectrum and you have people saying a 3000 dollar speaker cable makes their system sound amazing when 300 dollar cable produces the very same if not better results. The bias comes in both directions and I am not here to debate about speaker cables but we understand the fundamental of your[Gene] opinion on it vs others. Yet, he does agree that theirs no point in buying expensive cables. I'm not here to back up or protect anyone, but when most of the ideas a person holds is equal to your own and reality they are not trying to lead people down the wrong path or provide faulty information. Lastly, on the other end of this we see how many people are killing themselves with this information and taking the joy out of the end goal which is enjoying the music and subjecting themselves to second guessing their every purchase and do not really even understand how to read or comprehend this information.

I have seen some brands do both +-3db and +-6db and both nominal impedance and minimum or +-2db and and low frequency extension

Are we talking about Paul McGowan here? I am guessing, sounds like some fake engineer would say.

How can an average person understand more specs, klipsch has a smaller number in this category say because of it’s signature sound. How do you market that kind of thing

Specs do matter to me, I would like to know the characteristics of the speakers. Before buying a subwoofer I would like to know how low it'll go, without the spec sheets it's a shot in the dark.

To say specs and measurements don’t matter you’re taking a lot of people for granted. Take a Grecken amphitheater that was built 2000 years ago specs matter.

Get fed up with people saying no point in a subwoofer as music doesn't have those frequencies in the songs. Obviously have not experienced a subwoofer set up correctly in their set up.

Well one thing to take into consideration is. If you were designing a speaker, where the hell do you start from? If you already made a speaker and it gets rave reviews and sells well. How do you know what made it great? How do you know how to make it better? Make the second version of it?

Allot of the issue is can you really trust allot of the specs . Most amplifiers alone lie non stop on rms ratings . But I guess a good speaker company you can trust the specs to an extent but I’d love to see someone with proper equipment test some of the specs the speaker company’s claim

Thx for the info we need it !!!