Great intro with all the necessary caveats out of the way. Sometimes exceptional engineering is not audible unless pushed by certain speaker loads or high levels or low frequency content or “perfectly transparent speakers”. For my needs I’m all over the Benchmark AHB2 amp - the reigning champ at ASR
@@KirillChufarov Purifi comes close to the measured performance of the AHB2. Both amps are vanishingly low distortion and should be sonicially indistinguishable as long as they aren't running out of power.
Excellent video. Some of the worst values are found in audio equipment . Some less than honest manufactures pass off poor equipment by hiding behind hype, cosmetics and the brainwashing that high price is inherently better.
Performance versus sound. The spec’s don’t tell all. But they are a powerful beginning. As long as we are talking on the AP and full band pass into 8 and 4 ohms and so on. Always love your straight talk videos Gene.
Great info as usual. I still have the have the Emotiva XPA 2 gen 2 that you reviewed and measured some years ago. Your review was why I bought that amp. Very good amplifier.
Hi Gene. Thank you for this very instructive video. I'm an admiror of your work and constant search for truth in audio. I published your video on my FB group and someone sent me this comment about your measurements. I would very much like if you could comment on it. This comment was made in a constructive way: "Unfortunately the video is mystifying. Measuring an amplifier with periodic-static signals says absolutely nothing about how it will reproduce aperiodic signals. Almost all amplifiers use HIGH negative feedback rates (NFB), which results in ultra low distortion values, but only for periodic signals. The rub is that the NFB does not act instantly, in fact the signal takes time to travel through the entire circuit, which makes the signal in comparison no longer the same as the one that is entering. As a result, the dynamic distortion is tens or hundreds of times greater in reality. For the reasons supported by the video, tube amps could not even be called hifi." Thank you
One of the best videos covering such topic that I've seen on RU-vid (until now, actually the best), bravo and thanks a lot! Now I feel enlighten 😁, as much as "empowered" (pun intended) for my current shopping trek for an amp and preamp. One comment: if we talk about music instrument amp (especially electric guitar), some will seek for those ugly FFTs as a matter of "sound style"; it'd be a very specialized amp in that sense, however, pedals or FX box can do the same without such FFT/THD unfriendly amp... But that's not the context this clip would be targeting.
Thank you Gene. It would be awesome to have you bench testing these criteria on the latest Parasound Halo power amplifier models: A21+ 2ch 300W @8ohm, $3499 A52+ 5ch 180W @8ohm, $2999 A23+ 2ch 160W @8ohm, $1499 Cheers !!
I reviewed and measured both of those amps almost 20 years ago when they first came out. I'd imagine the design is very similar today to those which is a good thing for sure.
I ripped the tendons in my shoulder rotator cup, so I'm not getting any amp heavier than 50 lbs. This week, a new amplifier NAD C298 at 185 wpc and 25 lbs (similar to NAD M23, 200 wpc) will replace my Parasound 2125v2 at 150 wpc (love it but I'll repurpose it to power my surround L/R channels). Apple Music lossless
Howdy. My view is different. I do not consider frequency bandwidth and THD:s very relevant these days. They were in the tube ages. What is important now are: - Transient response. How well a kettle drum is reproduced without compression and buckling. - Slew rate. Determines how well high notes can ride the bass. - Square wave response. Are there overshoots and afterringing ? Regards.
Gene, can you do a short video on the pros and cons on speakers with high sensitivity. Curious if this one of the reasons why Klipsch is so popular within the home theater community. Thanks!
Amplifier's distortions increase as the power is turned up. So high efficiency speakers at any given volume are receiving a less distorted signal. But obviously, wether this is audible will depend on the particular amp/speaker combo.
Klipsch is popular with the home theater community because they're cheap and loud. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's often what that crowd is after.
@@loudandclearmedia They're not all cheap. They make high end stuff as well. I'm a music listener and I'm very happy with my RF 7iiis. They're not what you'd call high end in the full scheme of things, but they're not cheap either.
I think the amps don't matter. Sparechange just needs to bring over his chocolaty battery powered Audioquest cables and BAM you're in audio Nirvana. 😂🤣🤣
Hello Gene, Irecently asked you about a Sherborn amp 7/110 . Didn't hear from you yet. I understand that you are probably busy. I was able to find a little info. I can't tell you why I bought impulsively . Didn't receive it yet , as I just ordered it. I didn't spend a lot hopefully this is a good amp. It sounds good in the specs . Thanks again . Please continue to share your great show with us?
Gene i own the pass labs INT250 and it uses the latest .8 design which may measure better than the amp you tested. Regarding the commits and measurements you did on the Pass labs. Nelson Pass Designs his amps that way for a reason. He has been designing amp for a very long time he does not favor feedback designs because he says it suck the soul out of the music, But feedback can make a amp almost perfect in the measurement. As you know your self in the audio world you give up one thing to gain another. I also would like to say no matter how expensive a amp is not all designs are going to work well with all speakers. Equipment matching is a factor at any cost. Put it with the right speaker system one not so hard to drive and it could be one of the best thing you have heard. By the way love your channel.
Thanks for your points. The "feedback sucking life out" is a fallacy. I recommend reading this: www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/amplifier-negative-feedback and watching our livestream: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kPqpuTO6Kd4.html Keep in mind in no other industry other than consumer audio is using a feedback control circuit a bad thing. Proper feedback is essential to linearize the behavior of a control system.
I would like to see a review of the Rotel amps. I just bought a Rotel RB-1582 MKII off facebook market for less than half MSRP and to my ears it sound great but I am curious, espesially because it is rated at 200w x2 @8 ohms but they don't even spcify the 4 ohm power.
You said multi driver speakers are 4ohm speakers even if the manufacturer says they are 8. Do you consider klipsch rp280f (2 drivers and a horn) to be 4ohm speakers?
I tried purchasing a X250 Pass Lab. Beautiful looking amps! But, who wants a sports car that can't handle curves? I'm currently looking into the new Rotel 1592 mk2 & it's CD player? Sound, sound Value for dollar & looks matter most.
@@Audioholics Yes. A nice body is only half the story..substance completes the entire picture. Before I purchased Classé CA 150 & CAP 151 components. I went head to head in same price category with Bryston & Krell. Classé came home with me for a few years until BAT manufactured their VK-500 w/Batpack! In retrospect, I should've simply purchased an additional CA 150 & used each as 600 watt monoblocks into my KEF 105/3 four ohm ratings.
Hi Gene great video and infomration as always. I just purchased a new Starke Sound AD4.3.2 class D. I would love to see your review on this amp forthcoming.
Basics but goodies! Great advice many people will benefit from. Cronglats for not being afraid to topple some mythical creatures. It rarely happens. :-)
Great video explanation Gene. Can you review the Musical Fidelity M8s-500s power amp and compare it to MICHI S5? the M8s-500s is 3000€ cheaper than the MICHI S5 and half the weight, but on paper it has more power. It would be awesome if you measured them both and compare them for music and movies. Thanks!
Perhaps you can add transient response tests to your list. How an amp handles a square wave at different frequencies and power output shows an amp's slew rate and damping abilities among other parameters.
Slew rate problems will show up in amplitude response under various load conditions. Square Wave response is a very unrealistic test but I usually do them anyway.
There is no single amp model in this demonstration with a power rating below 150W. And that's probably about half of power amps on a market. Would be nice to see some of those as well.
What is your opinion on gainclone amplifiers? I'm curious how my amp stacks up against the big boys. Is there any cheap and easy way for me to measure my amp to determine its performance?
Please, please review the Starke Sound AD4.320. 2,3 or4 channels claims stability down to 2 Ohms. Class D, claims to sound like a tube amp through the mids and highs. Thanks!
I looked on your website and wasn’t able to find any reviews on the emotive xpa gen 3 amps. Curious on how they measure compare to the monolith amps since they are at a similar pice point?
Gene please do a revisit on their new amp line. The XPA and the DR3 Gen 3 models. Looks like lot of your fans want to see how they’ve progressed for better or worse. Thanks!
very nice sir.. please explain about the DAC used in Different audio processors to find the best and value for money processors for home theaters and kindly do a comparison between DAC also sir plz..
I would like to know how important (or UNIMPORTANT) it is to have reserve power. If my speakers can handle 1000 watts, what's a good number for headroom? 2000?
Personally, I have 2 measuring devices, I use to judge the performance of an amplifier. One attached to each side of my head! Yes, when I’m researching gear I may be potentially purchasing, I’ll browse the measurements and specifications and compare and contrast them with competitors, but, only as a very general guide line. My ultimate purchasing, decision making tools are my wallet and my ears!
HI I would like your opinion on the denon poa 2400 I,m useing one with my analog system driving a pair of klispch forte iv,s I have a prema lune evo 100 preamp. That might seam a little strange but that pre amp drives the poa 2400 with insane dynamics my input is a rega planner 6 with a oftfon bronze cartridge. I have had to have both channenl repaired at the cost of 900.00 but its rocking again. I have been considering a muscial fedility m6 amp to replace the denon ??
Hey Gene is it possible to petition yamaha to allow dts neural X for Dolby signals? They still don’t allow it even though the licensing restrictions were dropped.
Do you by any chance have the same graphs for the Yamaha RX V479? It's an old budget reciever now but I would love to see how it performs on paper... I still haven't got to try mine anywhere near the top...YET 😂
Just curious Gene have you done anything on the Rega Osiris amplifier. Would love to peceive your technical and amp knowledge with respect to its performance. It was first introduced about ten years past but is still the current reference
In my opinion the problem with amplifiers are negative feedback. A few examples of amps without negative feedback is Hegel (typicaly from $1000 used for 80 watts) and Music Angel (Tube, Class A, typically from $500 for 30watts) . Im sure there is other examples, but this is the two that I own. Good luck.
@@Audioholics the reason feedback is bad for sound is the time alignment, another problem in the time aligment is the coil in the crossover. If you want to experince music without time aligment problems (but some problems with too thin cabinet) try the speakers from philips mz-33 and some amp without feedback, as mentioned above. The loudspeakers typically cost $40 per pair, best results with two pairs, and mounted in a better cabinet. Anyway, this is the only way to get zero time distortion, and time distortion it is in reality the most important distortion, but also the hardest to measure, because the time misaligments is so small. Try this setup in your kitchen, and if you find yourself spending too much time in your kitchen, you know your onto something. Please leave a reply if you ever try.
@@bjorn2fly that's pretty nonsensical and patently false. Most of the bad rap about negative feedback is poor understanding either by the designer or the person making the claim.
@@Audioholics try for yourself, once the timing-distortion disappears (and other distortions is not too obvios) the music feels clear. And no, its not nonsensical to talk about errors made by coils in the time domain. Coils where used to correct timing-errors on trans atlantic lines, so its not unreasonable to think a coil will introduce a timing error if used in a say 5m line. Anyway, try for yourself, and if you start to spend all your time in the kitchen, you know something is right. I have not done the calculations, and dont know how many microseconds things need to be off before our brain sence it, but I have clear sound at home, and I like it. In my experience the linerity of the loudspeakers is not impotant, but wall thickness in the speaker is important. The speaker i recomended to start with is not good enough and it is clearly audiable (the distortion is around 200hz) , but easy to fix (put it in new enclosure). Good luck, and dont write off a perfectly good reason why hifi is lost in space before you have tried, because you can not measure it unless you are very detremind.
To elaborate a little more; in my view there is mainly four distortions, timing, harmonic, frequency response and other noise. For now there is no way to convert the 4 into one number, but what I say is that when the three others are under reasonanble control, than timing is key (timing comes from lack of negative feedback and lack of coils in crossover)
Just looking at some of these graphs will show you which amps are severely overpriced. For the money the anthem looked the best. A lot of power at 8 ohms and at 4 grand its not too expensive. Comparing all of these to the Hypex Ncore nc502mp I bought, none of these amps match the distortion of less than .002 from 1 to 400 watts at 4 ohms all for around 700 bucks brand new.
The major problem with this video is the fact that unlike Gene, most consumers do not have a way to test their amplifiers on a diagnostic machine. You can say that a certain class of amplifier is better in some ways than others fine. But, when it comes to actually listening to amplifier and here in the overall sound quality if it's effortless across the frequency band and has very low THD and drives your speakers well efficiently and with good clarity... This comes down to real world listening. There is no way to know just how linear or whatever and amplifier is if you're not hooking it up to a piece of expensive sensitive equipment for diagnostics. Gene spends the whole video sharing his screen showing what he has measured on a $30,000 diagnostics machine. For most of us this simply is not accessible. This makes this video presentation completely redundant.
I've been performing out live since 1987 as a bass player. I've played in rock bands Country Bands and in a Blue Grass band.. The only way to tell a good amplifier is with what you call a left and right ear that you have on either side of your head... It's all in the ears of the beholder.. I don't care what amplifiers make what claims. A lot of people buying amplifier just because of the name. I prefer HARTKE bass amps. over the out rageous priced Ampeg amps. Where I find HARTKE has a better sound for how I play and what I play for music.. But nothing will replace you EARS...
Group delay should be constant for all frequency, DC offsets should be zero. No phase change. Linear before closing feedback. Non of class D have such , class D is good for audio but not audiophile
@@Audioholics my point here is that your measurement says nothing, for example how much slew rate limitation you have between amplifier, do they handle 1ns rise time ? Do they handle capacitive load around 5uF at output? What will be phase margin and gain margin for amplifier with this capacitive load , you just measure with AP THD with sinus signal which it doesn't show so much . What about if you put unsymmetrical signal with different amplitude between positive and negative part of signal for 1 hour , and after that symmetrical sinus signal, what will be thermal effect of that on sinus signal. So you are dead wrong what you say about amplifier.
@@paulpaulzadeh6172 it almost sounds like you know what you're talking about but in reality, you're just chasing your tale with technobabble. The testing I do will reveal if there are issues or not with an amplifier. I also test with a speaker load as well.
@@Audioholics I put together one from the kit form (cost me less than $300). It always seemed like a great amp to me, but I never had it measured. It's still running strong, 33 years later.
My Yamaha RN803 measures flat. My Audia Flight FLS10 measures flat. Any variation between either unit’s measurement is like no more than 0.5dB. But they sound different even at moderate level with speakers that are easy to drive. I’m curious why? Also, I’m no expert in reading measurements. 😬
@@Audioholics thanks for your response. I'm in a situation where I inherited a Poweramp and it didn't come with a power cord. I tried contacting the manufacturer but it's been quite a while and they have not gotten back. Does gauge matter? Let's say an 18 gauge power cord versus a 14 gauge
@@ryanschipp8513 turn on your common sense and think about the difference the last 50 or 100 centimeters could make in the whole power chain to your device
Imagine you walk a ship deck in heavy sea state and the boat is swerving and rolling (speaker). Do you believe it’s important wether your soles (amplifier ) are 2 or 3 mm thick?
“They’re lying” - Gene 🤣 That’s one thing I don’t get. How can manufactures say they have a 8ohm speaker when it stays around 3 ohms through the majority of frequencies. Something has to be done.
@Audioholics - How do the Emotiva XPA Gen3 amps spec in these categories? I'm looking for a good all around entry level amp to go separates for the first time. I'd love to be able to lower my hiss and noise floor issues with my current Marantz 7012 AVR and Klipsch RP speakers... Thoughts?
The emotiva is okay I bought one and returned it though. I am running schiit audio Aegir class a. I also tried their class AB vidars. I am running Cornwall iv and the difference between class a class a b and class d are dramatic! If you have a high efficient speaker class a all the way don't look back it is amazing how it sounds! I am running mono so I am using two.
@@henriksrensen3220 Why would anyone deter a listening test? Always listen but narrow your choices to the amps that measure best. Why fight having more objective data in your hands? Very bizarre.
