Do the Wizards of The Lord of the Rings Need a Staff to Do Magic? 

4:29 Gandalf died upon the pinnacle of Celebdil, not Caradhras. And it's remarked somewhere that Galadriel gave him a new staff after his resurrection.

When Tolkien was rolling Gandalf for the next campaign, he just went Arcane Focus, staff, rather than the clunky Component Pouch.

"Do NOT mistake me for a conjurer of weak lifts!" *deadlifts 2 tons on his staff

Wizards don't need a staff to assist them in magic as they prefer to work alone. I'll show myself out.

The staff in itself has no power, it is just a focusing aid you can channel your power through, send too much force through it and it will break. Gandalf also channelled his might through Glamdring when fighting the Balrog which destroyed the balrog's sword. The breaking of Saruman's staff at Orthanc was symbolic of him being cast out as an istari.

The "thorny topic" pun alone compelled me to like the video

I think it is notable that Gandalf's staff does a lot of things to do with fire and light and he is also carrying Narya (the ring of fire). Maybe the staves are there to enhance actual abilities of the wizards? Which in Gandalf's case may have already been enhanced by the ring

I think Gandalf taking Saruman’s staff is a, “You are no longer of our order.” move. Like taking a membership card away, meaning he no longer has access to wizard abilities, since his voice is his natural ability.

I think I'm tending towards the staff being a symbol and a useful tool for some magic. The loss of Saruman's power is because he no longer has any right to a staff rather than not having that one. I base this on the fact that Gandalf breaks his staff on the bridge of Khazad Dum and then proceeds to win the battle against the Balrog, which seems to have involved some pretty wild magic from the description...

I read Gandalf breaking Saruman's staff as symbolic of Saruman's expulsion from the order of the Istari. The staff seems like a sign of their authority from the Valar that the Wizards use to focus their power, but which is not the source of it. I'm guessing that if a Man stole a Wizard's staff then apart from bringing him a lot of trouble it would be in his hands no more than a stick. One of the reasons I don't like the Witch King breaking Gandalf's staff in the movie is that he does not have that authority,

A very interesting ideas. I am unsure if Gandalf uses anything other than his innate power, with Theoden definitely seems entirely natural to me. The fire business though he uses his staff several times,might well be his ring. The staff to me is something like a spear thrower, a means of amplifying and projecting his power. As the grey he is incarnate in that body, the staff reminds him, and others, of his connection to power. I don’t know if you have read any Sir Terry Pratchett, a wonderful author by the way, but for me the staves of Gandalf and the other Istari are like the pointy hat of a witch. There as a symbol to the witch and everyone else of her power, something which also actualises that power. Thanks and keep up the good work.

I don’t really have anything to add except a language thing: In the Hobbit, Gandalf has just slain the Great Goblin and they’re all escaping in the dark. “Then Gandalf lit up his wand” Seems a curious moment to switch terminology. Even though ‘wand’ can mean staff, i can’t remember the word being used anywhere else in either book. Which is even stranger if ‘Gandalf’ means ‘wand-elf’. I think it’s also cool that the etymology points to ‘stæf’ being the origins for ‘staff/stave’ as the name for a wooden rod weapon/walking stick, but also for ‘staves’ as in ‘words/literature’. Gandalf uses a ‘spike’ on his staff to scribe a G rune on Bilbo’s front door. If the spike was at the ground end of the stick, it might resemble something like a big pencil. If I was to make any kind of leap of logic, I’d guess that if you combine those things, you could kind of say that a wizard’s staff is for ‘writing’ magic in the air to manifest it, much the same way we conventionally think of wands. I don’t know if Tolkien was suggesting that ‘magic’ is ultimately wise/knowledgable words but to me, it all vaguely points that way. “Beneath the rule of men entirely great, the pen is mightier than the sword.”

I enjoy a good Tolkien conundrum

So I'd like to offer a different take on the use of language for magic. Such as when Gandalf creates fire to save them from the wolves. I am not sure Tolkien meant this as a 'prayer' so much as a common aspect of magic in various cultures, especially proto-Indo European cultures: the idea that saying something can make it come true (I suspect this comes from the idea that since words can evoke images in other people's minds, maybe they can do it in reality too). For characters like Gandalf, they actually have the power to have their words (sometimes) literally form reality. So I'm not sure I would say it is a prayer, because he's really externalizing his own power. But he's doing so by making a statement that reality then conforms to. Similarly, when he tells the Balrog 'You cannot pass,' he is essentially putting a spell on reality, that the Balrog will be prevented from passing. So I think he does use magic by words here as well.

Great video. It's even more complicated than that since the staff could serve as a magic focus or source of magic even if he's doing something with his other hand as long as he has it in his possession. If I recall correctly Saruman was still trying to persuade Gandalf to join his side so didn't treat Gandalf too harshly and didn't need to take his staff since he probably had some means of neutralizing it while they were both within Orthanc. Gandalf didn't use magic to escape Orthanc since it was the eagles who were able to locate him all by themselves after being sent to find him by Radagast.

Really important, Frodo in his song in Lothlorien refers to a "thorny staff". Thorny as an adjective refers to the wood of the hawthorn tree. Whereas, at Edoras the staff is of ash, a different kind of wood. There's probably an echo of "Oak and Ash and Thorn", the title of a song by Rudyard Kipling. Tolkien quotes this (possibly unconsciously) in the song "Sing all ye joyful" near the end of The Hobbit. I think this is right about the staff having to do with physical magic. The Wizards are an Order. It's a kind of academic distinction, they have to study for it. Saruman doesn't throw Gandalf out of the Order so he doesn't take his staff. Whereas, Gandalf simultaneously dismisses Saruman from the Order and breaks his staff.

Gandalf loses his staff to saruman, escapes without said staff, gets a new one in rivendell.

I was thinking that the staves of the wizards represent their authority which was given by the Valar, or even by Eru himself. In the Ósanwe-kenta Tolkien talks about how communication of thoughts could be strenghtened by authority, so maybe this works with magic in general as well? This would also explain why they use it especially when interacting with the world around them - with the staff they have a symbol for the legitimation of their actions. But the reason I like this theory is because it would explain why Saruman wouldn't take Gandalf's staff: as chief of the order at that time, Gandalf's staff wouldn't be dangerous to Saruman at all because Gandalf the Grey had lesser authority. He probably could have snapped it the way Gandalf the White was able to do it with his staff later on. As the Grey, Gandalf has lesser authority and knows it, so magic-wise he doesn't even really try to fight Saruman here - he knows he can't win, when Gandalf talks about this he mentions that his response to Saruman's threats were empty and that Saruman laughed because he knew they were empty.

Stopping in to visit and learn stuff.

This was a great video. Joshua did a great and thorough job of covering all the lore that was connected to swords and Istari magic. I really enjoyed the whole video.😁👍

Just want to say that you’re awesome. Love all your videos and always come back to your Chanel when re-reading the books.

There was a cut scene where his staff was short circuiting when confronting a troll. I'm glad they cut it. The wizards were underpowered, when he came back he got more of his power. Glorfindel also got an upgrade.

I don’t like to think about Gandalf touching things with his staff lol

Fascinating, nuanced, and intriguing discussion. Very thoughtful review of what we have, and I hope that you will give us more reviews of the "magic" of Middle Earth!

Maybe the staff is an illusion to hide the fact that the power of wizards is innate aniur power.

There's another (pretty minor) use of magic when Gandalf puts some kind of protective spell on Bill the Pony, which involves words but doesn't use the staff.

I seem to remember a passage that said that the staff Gandalf had in the Hobbit and Fellowship of the Ring was given to him by Radagast ( so he must've lost his first staff at some point ) , that staff was destroyed when Gandalf broke the bridge in the battle with the Balrog and when he was sent back he got a replacement White staff from Galadriel , I think the staves of the Istari are more a sign of rank within their order than absolutely necessary for their use of their innate power

I really like the possibility that Gandalf the White's staff was the same as Gandalf the Grey's. Personally, I never envisioned Gandalf carrying the staff while he was being carried by Eagle to Lothlorien. I love the idea of Eru resurrecting Gandalf AND his staff to help complete the mission.

So maybe Saruman took Gandalf’s, but Gandalf uses it more as a focusing tool when he has time, or as you theorize, to affect strictly the physical world. The reason why destroying Saruman’s staff matters maybe because Saruman, who became obsessed with Sauron and the Ring, invested his power into his staff, mimicking his (idol, obsession?)

I've always thought that Saruman didn't take Gandalf's staff for the same reason he didn't take his ring. Neither wizard was confident I'm the notion of confronting the other directly, and Gandalf essentially surrendered to imprisonment because of this uncertainty.

We know from Gandalf’s account that Saruman created his own ring of power though it was of lesser potency as Saruman didn’t know everything about ring lore. Is it possible that Saruman invested some of his own native strength into his ring, similar to what Sauron did, only to lose access more of his strength when his staff was broken and when the Ring was destroyed which would render his own ring inert? Thus Saruman is left with only the power of his voice.

I wonder if all the Istari left Aman with staves. It would make sense. If that were true, you'd think that the staves had some kind of power that the Istari would need to use, but would not violate the restrictions imposed upon them to not use their powers to directly get involved.

He actually has two staffs in the books. His first one breaks when he breaks the bridge of Kazan Dum

My impression is that the staffs were not required for the wizards to use magic but that they could amplify it and/or serve as a reservoir for it that might make it easier at times for an incarnate (as the wizards were) to cast certain spells. I don't think it had to be the same staff throughout their time in Middle-Earth but creating a replacement staff required a measure of skill beyond all but a few. Regarding Gandalf the White's confrontation with Saruman at Orthanc, I think Gandalf did more than break Saruman's staff. He also largely broke Saruman's power as a wizard and I don't think he was capable of that until Eru Ilúvatar returned him as Gandalf the White. Saruman's attitude at their confrontation says to me he did not fear Gandalf until Gandalf broke him.

I favor the idea that Saruman's staff being broken is more like him "turning in his badge", however if we do interpret his staff as a necessary magical focus then I have another thought at work. One of the key differences between the two primary wizards is that Gandalf is nomadic, but Saruman is not. In fact it's implied that this difference (and especially the fact that Saruman settled in place with some intent of fortifying or guarding territory, even if initially as a servant of Men) is a factor in how Saruman fell to his pride. By contrast, the grey wanderer had few material possessions and no lands, which meant less immediate power but more flexibility. Saruman tied his strength into his materialism, and therefore *couldn't* replace a broken staff. (He does not have one after leaving Isengard, even though it might have been useful during his time in Hobbiton.) Gandalf, especially as the Grey, can by contrast adapt and doesn't rely so much on specific totems to channel his power. He has a deeper personal connection to the Powers and the staff is merely a tool of focus rather than an inherently magical artifact. I'm not 100% sure that's what Tolkien was going for, but I think it works.

The staff breaking has to do with the Will I think, like a uniform. A withering and decrepit staff destroys the sense of learned and remembered knowledge. Thanks for the videos!

Maybe when frodo was dreaming the ring gave him premonition, a hobbits strongest trait would be their mind. Buttt it could still be a dream representation of what actually happened. My brain just went into a circle.

Okay I'm going to go at it from another perspective and I much appreciate it if you give me your opinion on this theory. Reading lotr, the progression of themes and concepts is quite apparent. It goes from being a sequel to The Hobbit to a tale of epic proportions. In the Hobbit (and the Fellowship), Gandalf uses his staff to do magic, but as the story goes on, we see some more instances of staff-free magic. In The Hobbit, Tolkien made Gandalf as a stereotypical wizard. They had staves, so does Gandalf and uses it to do magic. This changes as the themes became more mature and the background got more solid in Tolkiens mind. Gandalf becomes a Maia and... So like many other aspects, we see a progression on the use of staff. I believe Tolkien knowingly kept these in the final draft, as "progression" itself is a major themes in the story. And I gotta say Tolkien does this perfectly.(Yeah no surprise I'm a Tolkien fan lol) Regarding the original question, I kinda think the staves are mostly decorative and ceremonial, though of some use. (Like having a cane/flashlight/torch/Swiss army knife/shadow-generator(?!) all in one). He probably can shine light through his hands or make fire using his fingers, but, I mean why would one do it when one has a staff? Why hold your hands up for 10 hours a day in the mines when you can shine light through top of your staff. Love your channel btw

There was some mention of his magic in the hobbit. The lighting of the pinecones perhaps with the three trolls as well. If there was any more let me know or express an opinion on the ones I mentioned.

Here’s a wild theory. The staves of the Wizards are sort of like the One Ring to Sauron. The ring itself has power, but the power belongs to Sauron and ultimately can be effectively used only by him. Maybe the staves are similar. The staves are powerful and ‘focus’ the power of the wizard wielding it, the same way the ring ‘focuses’ the power of Sauron

Also I think the magic Gandalf used at the doors of Moria didn't cause the image to appear, I think Gandalf used it to detect its presence and nature.

if memory serves... he was revived directly by Aru...if so... maybe that's the source of the light. if I am remembering right, been years since I read it.

I've never really understood magic in LOTOR. I always felt like it's the wrong term but I can't think of the right one, that's the short version. Haven't finished the video yet tho.

I always assumed the Elven Ring allowed him his fire abilities. Which explains why he is so associated with fire, being a spirit of the air rather than of fire, otherwise that would be odd.

I have to say Theoden in Meduseld always seemed it had to be Narya to me, "kindling spirits" like it does best. I wouldn't doubt that a skilled user of forces like Gandalf could somehow even channel Narya's powers through his staff and perhaps concentrate them, burning away the cobwebs in Theoden's mind. Although Theoden's condition and mental state were not caused by magic in the books, he could have been so far gone that only "magic" like Narya's could heal him. There are other uses of magic by Gandalf the Grey--Amon Sul and the driving off of the Nine with fire and lightnings, and the Ford of Bruinen and the images of the horses in the water---but I guess you're not mentioning them because they don't involve a staff in direct description? But that would be true of the Moria Word of Command too. I would think the light that Gandalf the Grey used at Weathertop was not the same as the light Gandalf the White used at Minas Tirith, ie the first is more likely to be actual lightning and the second is more likely to be silmaril-like hoily light, and to the extent we know any other "weather" magic, that would be the clouds at Meduseld...... Also there is his "blessing" of Butterbur's beer. I remember thinking that sometimes Glamdring was also serving as a kind of staff at times, or at least a vessel for his power, as when he rode at Helm's Deep---that also looks like possible magic to me, or at least the fea of a maiar projecting power--"the terror of the White Rider." Not sure of either of those though.

I always saw the staves of the wizards as more of a symbol, a badge of office. Perhaps to some extent they're a tool, but I doubt the wizards actually need them.

When it comes to Gandalf, does his ring come into play at all? Honest question.

I've wondered if a Wizard's staff might not work analogously to how the One Ring works. Maiar all seem to have native power that they can exercise at will, at least in certain circumstances; Sauron poured a lot of his own power into the Ring as a means of evidently extending his own personal influence over the world and over the wills of other sentient beings. Using a physical object as a kind of receptacle for his power gave his power a reach it could otherwise not have had. Could what Sauron did with the Ring simply be an extreme form of what the Wizards did with their staves? The Wizards were forbidden to openly display their power as Maiar; and maybe by pouring a small amount of their own native power into a staff, a Wizard could somehow at least partly counteract the strictures placed on them by the Valar, to the point that they could perform limited feats of magic.

Didn't Galadriel cloth Gandalf in white. She probably didn't just do that because Gandalf told her to...I also thought a new staff came from Galadriel. I see staves as tools, like a magnifying glass I might get use to amplifying what I've got, but not the main source of my strength, but a way, not the only way, to express it. I don't think a staff is the same as a ring. I don't think the Valar would endorse that. A wizard might be at a handicap without this staff, but not powerless. I wonder if a wizard's reliance on Eru might allow them to access greater potential even without the staff.. ...and how much more access would Gandalf the White. Of course that means Saurman without a staff would be less likely to call upon Eru to transcend his mortal limitation.

I think as a Maiar Gandalf would have had many spirital abilities that mortal men would call magic but those abilities would have been natural to all maiar or vala to a greater or lesser degree. Also Gandalf was contrained by the Valar to help the people of Middle Earth not wow them or dominate them with his abilities. I think alot of what he with 'magic' was window dressing so as to not scar or intimidate the people around him. The wisest of the eldar like Galadriel would have understood this having been in Valanior in the days of the Trees. She would have had a good understanding of what a maiar could do. At least one constrained by being incarnated into Arda and under the authority of Manwe.

TolkienGeek, dose the Elven Ring of power play a roll? Would the Ring allow him to tap into his natural ability as an angelic being?

magic comes from the wizzard. n there staves help them do some spellls but others need no staff.

Could Saruman have not had the power/ability/right to relieve Gandalf of his staff?

Well we also have that tha Valar or Eru sent Gandalf back naked. So where was his ring? Did they send that back on his person or to the elves? If they had the power to teleport objects the whole book would not have happened. So clearly Gandalf's clothes were destroyed but not his ring and Gandalf's spirt was returned to his body with a power up. His clothes were provided at Loth Lorrien and presumeably a Stave. My assumption is that the staves are only as powerful as the wizard wants them to be. So Saurauman may have made his own stave and embued it with part of his spirit like Sauron and Melkor have been known to. But this enchanting lessons the enchanter. Or the staff is a focusing tool made from a specific type of tree not found on middle earth except for those who have beem to the West.

So… are we skipping all the uses of magic in The Hobbit? Gandalf is described multiple times as killing goblins "with a bang and a flash" and he also changes the color of smoke rings. Obviously, the book was meant for a younger audience, but it still exists within the same continuity.

First again 😁

There are three instances I can think of where Gandalf used some kind of "magic" that you didn't touch on here. The first is his use of pinecones on the Wargs in The Hobbit, where he grabs them and lights them on fire to use as weapons, they're said to burn with blue, green, and red flames which explode in "coloured sparks and smoke". Interestingly enough there's no mention of his staff in the passage. The other two are a lot more vague, one is when Gandalf fights the Ringwraiths at Weathertop, Frodo and Aragorn see it from afar and wonder at it. It's said there are great flashes of light, which Aragorn compares to lightning. I doubt a flash of light would be the work of the Ringwraiths after all. But presumably Gandalf had his staff during that encounter. The more interesting one is during Gandalfs fight with the Balrog atop the mountain, a case where we know for a fact that he didn't have his staff. We only get a very brief and vague description from Gandalf about it, but he says "Those that looked up from afar thought that the mountain was crowned with storm. Thunder they heard, and lightning, they said, smote upon Celebdil, and leaped back broken into tongues of fire. Is not that enough? A great smoke rose about us, vapour and steam. Ice fell like rain.". I suppose the question is whether or not that was Gandalfs doing or the Balrogs. I always took it as a bit of both, especially since once again those from afar see what looks like lightning. Alternately I suppose it could have just been a coincidence that a storm passed through, but it would have to be quite the coincidence! Plus Gandalf is saying that as a description of his fight with the Balrog, and saying that people thought it was crowned with storm (as opposed to actually being a storm). So I personally don't think the staff is required to interact with the physical world with magic, but it may very well aid in doing so.

Second to comment, 81st to view