Do We Value Control Over Freedom? 

As a freethinking empathetic contrarian strain of INFJ, the current degree of complacency and deference to shamelessly corrupted leaders with Cluster B tendencies is horrifying.

What's up Clay? Just wanted to say I'm a fellow INFJs who enjoys your videos. Specifically I like how deep you dig into the psyche. It's hard to find others to talk to about the things I find interesting and invest my time in. Listening to your videos reminds me that I'm not alone in the way I think and I'm not doing anything wrong by being different than others around me. But just wanted to say keep up the great videos. My thoughts and ideas seem scattered from my perspective (until I can share them with someone, for some reason it helps me straighten everything out) but they seem very logical when you say them. Have a great day? 🌞

I liked how you connected the dots - opinion/believes/laws/cultural expectations. I too sometimes wonder is that what I believe or is that what I have absorbed from cultural norms?

I, personally, believe many people like to be controlled. They just don't like to think of it as such. They probably would prefer not to think about it at all. That's the thing, if someone tells you what the rules are, what's expected, then you don't have to. Furthermore, you don't have to take responsibility for anything. And things are nice and predictable. People like predictable. Even though things can turn on a dime, the world can be turned upside down (as we have all seen), people like thinking that there's stability. I believe they find comfort in it.

Clayton knows how to surprise us

Thank you for presenting what I feel so many of us struggle with and contemplate every day. I respect and encourage deeper thinking of the architectural constructs of these issues to find both a root cause, and (re)build structures that can apply workable solutions. United we stand, divided we fall, and the fall enslaves us all.

Where I use to live outside of Philadelphia, I had to pay $7000 every year for school tax and I didn't have any kids. My in-laws paid $14,000 every year and they didn't use the school system. If we didn't pay that tax, they'd kick us out and auction off the house. Yeah freedom!

Besides the great content, I love the colour treatment you add to your videos. A soothing atmosphere 😌

For me, the abortion question is one of sentience.

This video is soooo great and interesting!! As a intj here, i have same questions in my mind for a long time as well. Your insights are so deep that give me goosebumps plz keep sharing your unique observation and opinion if you like to:)

I think this must be an INFJ thing to deeply question these kinds of things. I do the same thing...and just keep going until eventually, I end up smarter/wiser...and if I don't like "what is" I can usually find a way to be o.k. with it. Here are some additional questions to think about. No right or wrong answers, but questions can always help us expand. Is it possible that laws are not really intended to control the masses but rather our collective best attempt to bring a basic framework to the complicated nature of diverse human beings trying to get along well enough to survive and thrive? 1. If we had no laws, Bob and "his people" might be more free to bully and/or control this young pregnant girl into doing what "they" believe is right. Would that be better than having the whole issue determined in a court of law which hopefully includes far more people and far more opinions..and hopefully would be weighing as many pros and cons as possible before ruling on the matter?...or holding a vote? Is it possible that having this and other issues open to far greater scrutiny within a court system could be better in some cases, than allowing smaller social groups with their own unique, beliefs, bents and inclinations to control a young pregnant girl's bodily autonomy? 2. I don't believe we have an actual "law" here where I live in KS (USA) regarding the use of bike helmets..and I'm not aware of such a law in other US states (cannot guarantee there is none)...but we also don't have universal health coverage here in the US. I hate to make it sound this simple because it just sounds so cold...but I have no doubt economics plays a significant role. Maybe Canada is more prone to such laws because they don't want to pay the resulting cost of people not being careful with their health. Same could be true for drugs and mental health care. Here in the US we have always had laws against certain drugs that were considered to have a high "social cost"....(When a parent cannot sufficiently care for the their children due to drug addiction, the social cost can be huge and long lasting for the children...and we all pay the price for damaged people) 3. I often get the feeling here in the US that the law doesn't really care if you "break it" by doing illegal drugs on occasion. That if you're not causing a problem to others...to your children...to the larger society...then no one will ever know or care....but that they need a law to, firstly, warn people "we don't approve"...because, secondly, "it can potentially end up harming innocent people and the cost to society can potentially be very high"....and thirdly, "all we have the power to do is enact a law against it...So we have...and thus, if you openly break that law...or if we find out you're harming anyone but yourself in the committing of that crime, we will arrest you" As a human being, we all have the freedom to either adhere to or break the laws. We just have to be able to weigh the pros and cons...and be ready/willing to take personal responsibility for consequences/outcome. So maybe freedom is "an inside job"?....Maybe the more mature we are, the better able we are to understand what it is that motivates us as a society to have laws in the first place...?...Maybe, as we mature ("if" we ever mature..and not everyone does) it's possible to become better at making responsible choices to avoid detrimental outcomes in a far superior way than any law could bring about? Now, I would say that "Bob" has not yet matured to the point of realizing that his "beliefs", while perfectly fine to have (that's his consititutional right in the US)...are only one small part of a very large and complicated reality. As long as we can count on our courts to be what they're supposed to be, I think they may be our best bet at making laws that take in a much larger slice of reality into their consideration, and don't unduly hinder our freedoms while simultaneously setting reasonable limits. There will never be a perfect system, and yes, some terrible injustices can and do occur within the US justice system, and some whacky laws sometimes can get passed with the best of intentions...but it's a system made up of imperfect humans who don't get everything right...and of course the goal-posts are constantly moving as our society changes over time. All just food for thought. I don't really even feel I know enough to have an opinion here. Only endless musings. P.S. You are not required to "pick a side"...There's just increasing pressure on us to do so. I refuse to play that game....and yes, there can be a social cost for such refusal in an increasingly polarized world, if you're not careful...but I simply can't do it. Once you've clearly seen the insanity of any particularly dysfunctional pattern in a system, you can no longer contribute to perpetuating it without losing something of yourself. What you said about "thinking outside the system, but learning to play within it" is "key". As long as I'm not going around shouting "I refuse to play that game!" I can largely avoid the negative consequences...quietly...without drawing attention to that fact. I mean really, how much effort & time does it take to "not do something" (pick sides...judge others...manipulate others...argue with others...etc...) ...and if I find myself being directly engaged by someone who is clearly probing to see if I'm on their same political "side"...I can calmly and casually just state the different questions that come to my own mind on the issue..maybe let them know how crazy-making all of the polarity is for me...and that I really need to not get drawn into it.....and then casually steer the conversation elsewhere without an ounce of judgement toward them or their beliefs. Which then "frees" my attention to actually live my life doing something I "enjoy"! To some degree, I feel like we (humans) have a habit of expending a lot of effort "looking for the flaws" in the system (and there will always be flaws to find), and sometimes miss the fact that we very often "willingly" giving away our valuable attention, energy and time on abstract issues that are unlikely to ever come to pass. I even wonder sometimes if we might be being "fed" a steady diet of "fear inducing news" just to keep us all too busy and occupied and anxious to actually "find" our freedom, and possibly do something amazing with it.

National divorce allow different communities to govern themselves how they see fit. We need to allow communities to govern themselves rather than one size fits all. Allow for more options, if we keep going authoritarian were gonna get massive blow back.

Sally's abortion isn't going to affect Bob. The only way it affects Bob is the cost to society by keeping Sally and her child in a low economic situation or making her choose to give up her baby after birth for adoption. But what if the child is unadoptable?

Thanks for the philosophy, Clay. I always find your videos intriguing. Even if I don't always agree. I do agree with you that groups of people are deciding the fate and discriminating against others when they have no real say in their personal rights. Why should you care if two guys get married? And without even understanding the full details of some poor girl's decision to abort, condemn her to a fate she wouldn't choose. These things are wrong, IMHO. I'm with you on that.

Ugh. I love the example that you gave about Jesus not even wanting to force His laws on to other people. I always thought about that. Aside from His command to go and spread the word of The Gospel, He did not say that we force people into submission of whatever we think. If anything, He said if people do not accept your words, dust off your feet and move on. I totally agree with all you said here. Another great video. Thanks, bro.

I believe in free will , cause causality might be an illusion , I am compatiblist but believe free will is limited.

You said that the anarchists would have a police force. Who would be in charge of it? What if members of the police force abused their power and arrested people who were not actually guilty? Should there be a judge? How about a jury? It seems like some members of this anarchist society would have a lot more power than others. Isn't that a government? There will always be leaders and followers and the leaders will always have control over the followers. People prefer it that way. See 1 Samuel 8 ("Give us a king to lead us."). I would have the same problems in an anarchist society that I have under the current society. I don't like to be controlled. The "anarchists" don't like to be controlled either. The difference between me and the anarchist crowd is that I have no desire to control others. It's just another group that I don't belong in. I have so many more thoughts on this topic, but I don't want to spam you with an entire novel. I used to have a RU-vid channel and lately I've been thinking about starting another one and I might like to do a reflection video if your okay with it. ("Your" - get it??? Lololol. Michael Malice. No, I'm sure you got it the first time. Harharhar. Okay, I'm done. I'm really gonna go now. Have a great day.)

Excellent topic & a great time to talk about these things. Love that you remain neutral and try to see things from different perspectives. It allows for a more open minded, deeper discussion. Possible new video idea: infj doorslam: job edition. I mostly hear about the doorslam in terms of a romantic/friendly relationship. But what if it’s with a boss or a company? Recently, I tried so hard for 6 months to get promoted but my boss eventually hired someone who was under-qualified & lacked ambition but accepted less pay. I also realized it wasn’t just about the money. My passion & eagerness to implement new strategies to improve morale & job effectiveness actually was my downfall because I believe it intimidated my boss. I think my ambition made him feel threatened because he perceived that I may be competition for his job one day, even if I don’t want his job. Typical infj right? As soon as we put our minds to something (especially something that will help others), we are very driven and can be perceived as “intense” or “intimidating.” Once I realized all of this, it completely flipped a switch in my head. I went from wanting to dedicate myself for a 24 hr on-call management position to not wanting to stay an extra minute over my shift. I couldn’t understand how I went from fully invested to apathetic in 1 day. Then i recognized how similar this was to my past relationships. I was wronged many times yet I stayed because I was hopeful that things would work out in the end. After getting to the point of complete exhaustion, I gave them one last chance to change things. Now, i know things will not change and there’s nothing I can do but move on. I am seeking a new job in the meantime. Have you ever experienced this? Is this why infjs prefer to work for themselves?

Amazing video! I really wish you could speak about how people are forced directly or indirectly to go to college, get a random degree and work in 9 to 5 jobs. I personally believe this should also be a matter of choice and that everyone should follow their own path.

Really interesting subject! About your ending of figuring out the game, might I suggest the book Finite and infinite games by James P. Carse, it could feed your reflections on that matter.

Thank you for sharing really, i rarely(probably only you) hear stuff like this from people and i hope that brings light to you. But it is hard for me to converse with people who doesn't show any interest in this kind of stuff or even worse try to "force" me into stuff i don't believe, i basically kinda came into your topic around, interesting😀😏. But ya i think it affected my style of conversing in a way i might not be very fond to...

Freedom is undervalued laws are overvalued

🌍 Brilliant

I always say that it all has to do with balance of protection and freedoms, based on what will protect society as a whole and what will give individuals freedom to provide a healthy, happy life. However, I think that the average human does not know how to create balance. They only know extremes. Such is what we find ourselves experiencing in society right now. I’m hopeful that the cycle will change, but it may take extreme measures. Not that I want that. I’m just being realistic. And I live in the US. 😉

Apparently we do...as a collective society, and even individuals within that society. Where does it stem from, who knows, were ignorant creatures, no?

The government provides goods and services that the individual cannot afford but relies on. Goods such as roads and bridges, for instance, and services such as education, which also require government buildings. Face it, you can't just build a road to get to everywhere that you need to, a bridge for every span you need to cross. The government pays teachers so that you don't have to provide your children with private tutoring. And the government provides materials and sets standards of education so that your kid isn't coloring all day instead of learning. Don't be misguided. The Bible, which guides many societies, the Koran guides others, and Buddhism yet others, are basic sets of social norms and laws. That's what their purpose really is, to provide people with a way to live together, to cooperate. And yes, it's concentrated power. Even a society without religion has laws: don't murder; don't steal, etc. Anarchy only serves the rich who will fill the government vacuum with their own benefits and priorities. The rest will be serfs and they will still live under a set of laws, just a different master. A village is 150 people, but their society won't prosper if you can just take what you want from this guy and boink that guy's wife whenever you feel like it. So, yes, laws are necessary because there's a contract between people that's agreed upon by majority. You don't necessarily need religion, but you do need a basic set of laws. The question is how intrusive do these laws need to be and how do you get the majority to agree?

Check Mark Passio (esp.earlier episodes) for Anarchy and Natural Law topics. He has some amazing content on that.

We are programmed. It's all a game. At least you realize it.

To have total freedom & choice… then again be forced to abide to the rules. It’s nice to see a potential future for a better humanity yet it’s up to everyone when they all have different morales , values & beliefs … the system is flawed, some feel it’s perfect and some see things not making sense… guess to achieve perfect society we gotta sacrifice parts of ourselves, how much do we let go & does it feel like a control thing… and does it really make sense to you… speculating life freedom of speech. INFJ-A enjoy your day ✊

Christianity isn't about Christ, it's about power and control.

I’m curious what your thoughts are on the idea that a woman carrying a baby to term by law is a matter of responsibility rather than slavery. Your description of why personal freedoms that only effect the individual should be permissible is logical, rational, and universally acceptable, I just have a hard time connecting that idea to the topic of abortion because the baby is a “separate life” and is therefore held with the same value as other developed “separate life” forms. Making the choice to not wear a helmet means that the individual must accept the duty of responsibility that comes with the possible consequences of that choice. Just because that biker may fall and hurt his head does not mean he has the freedom to take away the pain and physical recovery of that action because he can’t rewrite the previous choice. In the case of abortion, it seems that with your view of it being slavery that the person never had any choice, but the choice to engage in sex was that choice. Just as a person who chooses not to wear a helmet may feel the painful and undesirable consequences of that choice, a person who gets pregnant should bear the duty of responsibility and endure the pain and suffering. Abortion is not a medicine or remedy, it is an act of removing one life form’s freedom for the sake of the life form responsible for its existence. I’m curious what your thoughts on that are and would love for a response, thanks!

Do bicycle helmets and seat belts only protect you? You sure about that??? If someone hits your car and you aren't wearing a seat belt and you die, whose fault is that? Does your family sue you for being an idiot who's "exercising your freedom"? Or do they sue the person who caused the accident? It's a little more cut and dry if you are doing everything you can to protect yourself. But then, your chances of survival are much higher. The consequences of not following the rules don't just affect you.

Anarchy very quickly becomes a dictatorship ruled by the people who have guns, etc. It is easier to debate these things when you have water, electricity, police, a job, a car, etc. otherwise, I’m afraid you might be forced to do whatever someone with a gun demands. Harsh, maybe, but I think it is important to appreciate the many things we have access to in our society. Don’t get me started about how anti-vaxers are bringing back polio, etc.

OK, let's say your village does decide to fire the police and hire new ones. Are you gonna sit through the whole hiring process and provide input for every new hire? You gonna vote on every single decision for the town or are you gonna elect people to make these decisions for you? Because I don't think having your city ask every citizen "Mother may I" is gonna work.

We need minimum freedom to control; freedom without control is savagery, wouldn't be civilization, but again too much control and is Fascism, the savagery of 1 or a few over many; therefore Democracy and Adaptable Laws, a culture of compassion, teaching and amending mistakes, is much better than a simpleton punishment one. Why? because humans and most animals respond to love and reason, and don't like and won't respond well to cruelty. A more organized and efficient Society is needed, but to do that we need user data, to make statistics and produce accordingly, also business should cover each other needs so they'd be always sustainable, and prices should be relatively stable and low enough for a comfortable living and have saving, which eventually creates abundance enough to secure our existence. So when is too much, when we say so, anyway Governments abuse this and try to spy as much on people as possible, with computers: data is sent through Cellular Carriers with "texting", instead of chat clients like WhatsApp, for example, and if you don't you get punished heavily, at least in the USA, in my Country Bolivia is the contrary; but here there's too much freedom and not enough control; but again, the control is never Democratic, even in Democratic Countries, we don't have a good balance, nor a political mechanism that's dynamic and efficient enough to support it. On a personal level is about the same: efficiency + compassion, treating yourself like this will make you treat others the same good way; hence creating civilization and progress, while having order, adaptive laws, and plenty of freedom: people that lives as I described don't need much control. As lots of things in life the secret is a balance between 2 destructive forces: cold and heat, we need 36-38ºC in our bodies, and ~25ºC on the environment to live well; Capitalism and Socialism; Immune System and Microbes, some microbes are useful to us and some need to be killed; and so on, Evolution has proven that plentifully: The most efficient Species are the ones that adapt the best to their environments, so that's the way of the Universe, so That's The Way

If we are happy we are INFJ's then we have to be happy other types exist too, we have to understand the laws are made by the majority personality types, and those types may need rules and regulations more than we do. The majority do not think like us, but the majority are governing us, it's a wiring issue. The majority of politicians will have a bias for a particular personality type sprinkled with a bit of narcissism and psychopathy.

My guidelines, freedoms, and laws, come from JESUS CHRIST, not from man. Those who have not CHRIST, are tricked into thinking that they are frree. BTW, there's no world government? 😎🎸