Do You Need Carbon Fiber To Reinforce A Guitar Neck? 

No, you are wrong. Quarter sawn wood is cut a certain way to ensure the grain isn’t curved and is closely spaced. Flipping a flat sawn board on its side doesn’t make it quarter sawn. If flipping was acceptable, no lumber mill would quarter logs because it’s wasteful compared to flat sawing wood. Please Google “quarter sawn vs flat sawn lumber” for more information.

@@HighlineGuitarsI’ve heard several companies say that Quarter Sawn is wasteful and that’s why they charge more.

@@comment.highlighted That is correct. In order for wood to be properly quarter sawn, there is a lot of waste. A board that is flat sawn and rotated vertically is not proper quarter sawn wood.

@@HighlineGuitars I looked it up on advantagelumber. So I see what you mean. I'm not the original commentator though just interested. However one of the flatsawn boards from the middle would be the same are quartersawn since it has the same grain direction as the quarter sawn. It would just be one board from the whole tree but still. If you could buy one of those it would have the same properties right? Take a look at it. It goes right through the middle and therefore has the same grain as the two boards on either side of quarter sawn. Am I right?

@@EbonyPope No. The terms “flat-sawn” and “quarter-sawn” describe the METHOD that the wood is processed. They are not a class of wood. Wood that is cut using the flat-sawn method has not been quarter-sawn and vice versa. Also, trees that are a candidate for quarter-sawing usually have a tighter grain structure and a much larger diameter.

Michael Manring approved :)

I am pretty sure you might be thinking of the repair he did on a Harmony H-44 Stratotone. The H-44 is a true “neck-through” design…..there is no dovetail or bolt-on joint where neck joins the body….the neck and body are one piece of wood….basically a canoe paddle with ears glued onto the sides. I don’t think a truss rod would function normally on that guitar design….although I’ve thought about it a lot since I own one and it is very difficult to get set up perfectly. The sustain, however, is incredible….basically like playing a lap-steel slung around your neck..

Glad you like them!

I built two electric mandolins, one of which was an octave mando. Neither one was built with a truss rod, but each had a double row of CF in them. The octave had to have a heavier string gauge set to keep it from being too "floppy sounding". The neck was a 5 piece lam of edge grain quarter sawn extremely hard wood. I used Gorilla glue and every clamp in my shop. The octave neck is as straight as the day it was first strung up. Same with the 14" scale fretboard mandolin.

I sell the rods and router bit on ebay by the way

GREAT SCOTT!!

Sure they look cool, but all those different pieces of wood are going to move differently when the humidity levels change. And think about what's going to happen to the glue seams years down the road.

@@HighlineGuitars If you are so sure about this, maybe show some pictures of professionally and reputably made laminated necks that have visible seams. Like Hamer did as a 2 man team, they purposely opposed grain very carefully, making very stable necks. You can laminate with epoxy too, if you are worried about heat softening PVA glue.

If you make a laminated neck like that, it's more likely to be stable in the first place as long as you're placing the laminations correctly in the laminate. At that point, you could add CF, but it would be somewhat redundant as its extra stiffness wouldn't be actually resisting much since you now have a stable neck. But besides being a lot of extra work to make the laminate, your neck will get heavier as the % of adhesive increases with the number of laminates. In a lot of ways it's analogous to the pros and cons of a laminated rifle stock. Regarding seams, that's just not going to be an issue if you make the laminate properly, use the right adhesive, cure it well, etc. Epoxy will do most of the work preventing this from happening as long as someone is using kiln dried wood.

Intresting idea. Is that in addition or in stead of a truss rod?

@@raccoon6072 Instead of. Look up Dixie Michelle on youtube. She did this with a lot of success. Her last video was on the complete process

I don't rely on CF to fix either. I control tone with pickup design and eliminate dead spots by doing a proper fret job.

Should try the ribbon on either side of the trussrood, more strength standing up than laying down.

No preference.

That's what I said at ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vYUYc_9ey1c.html

What about players who don't want any relief? Also, carbon fiber can be used along with a truss rod, which allows for adjustment of relief. Finally, the purpose of carbon fiber reinforcement is to ensure stability today, tomorrow, and decades into the future.

I was strictly referring to carbon fiber rods being used as a complete replacement for the truss rod. I have no concerns about carbon fiber rods being used in addition to the adjustable truss rod. Regarding the players who do not want any relief, it is my experience that they cannot explain to me why it is that their guitar will play better without any relief. Perhaps the following analogy helps explain my point of view. To a guitar tech, a guitar-playing customer is what a patient is to a doctor. The patient should not be telling the doctor which medications they want. As a guitar repair technician, in a big metropolitan city, I see about 2000 guitars per year. I still can’t tell how much of a relief a neck has, until I put a straight edge over the fretboard, and place a feeler gauge under the straight edge. I have never met a guitar player that can tell me how much of a relief their neck has, just by playing the guitar, in playing position. Plus, as we all know, a neck relief is not something you set-up one time and forget about it. This means that the neck relief goes up and down, as time passes. That said, if a relief is set to zero, it only means that the relief will go into a backbow, whenever the environmental changes pull the neck into that direction. However, when a neck does have adequate relief, and the environmental changes make the neck bend in the negative direction, it hopefully has enough of a margin to not develop a backbow. This is just one reason, one of many, why it is my opinion that a good neck does need to be set up with adequate relief. Hope this makes sense.

@@GuitarQuackery First of all, if a highly skilled and accomplished guitar player tells me they don't ANY relief in their neck, I am not going to respond out of arrogance and tell them they are wrong. Second of all, a highly skilled and accomplished guitar player who wants zero relief in their guitar necks will come to me because they know I can make a neck, reinforced with carbon fiber, that will NEVER move, thereby eliminating the need for a truss rod and the need to adjust it every time the humidity levels change. Of course I know that technological advancements such as carbon neck fiber reinforcement are the bane of guitar techs since they eliminate a big part of their business, but that's progress.

Interestingly, a very accomplished guitar player is coming to my shop on Wednesday. While he is definitely an accomplished musician, I had to teach him how to put strings on his guitar. It is still my opinion that musicians are not technicians. I also think that only time will tell how the guitar necks that only have carbon fiber rods will age. We’ve seen space age material durability claims made before, in the guitar world. Ovation guitars were supposed to be indestructible. We’ve also seen carbon fiber guitars that were supposed to be indestructible. And yet, I have seen numerous examples of both of these, that have completely deteriorated, to the point that they were literally unfixable on any reasonable budget. I do not believe that there is such thing as a neck that is going to be forever straight. Everything will age, and as the second law of thermodynamics states, everything will fall apart. It’s just a matter of time. Also, once there is fret wear, in my experience, it changes how much relief is needed. Again, I hope there is no misunderstanding. I like the idea of carbon fiber reinforcements. But I believe that an adjustable truss rod is still needed. And, of course, the flipside of the argument is also true. If I make a guitar with a completely straight non-adjustable neck and an accomplished musician comes to me and tells me that they would like to see .006” relief, am I going to tell them that they are wrong?

@@GuitarQuackery I have a higher opinion of musicians. Out of curiosity, why would you watch this video given your deeply ingrained opinions about truss rods and carbon fiber reinforcement? Are you just trying to start an argument with someone?

Epoxy. CA glue.

Round rods won't work. Try www.amazon.com/Guyker-Carbon-Fiber-Neck-380mm/dp/B083DZZ2QD?th=1 If you can't buy from Amazon, search for Guyker carbon fiber neck.

I buy 48" long, 1/4" tall, and 1/8" wide strips and cut them to the length I need.

@@HighlineGuitars Thank you!

I would reinforce it with carbon fiber. No reason not to.

@@HighlineGuitars thanks for the reply! I really appreciate it.

Torrified and quarter sawn; the ultimate neck wood.

I wouldn't waste my time.

Please, where to buy cheap carbon fiber rods for guitar? Thanks

Use the same CF profile (6x4mm) was hesitant about cutting a slot so deep into the neck so I route a 2mm channel in the fret board also...easy on a CNC / better alignment and removes the need for pins.

Both carbon fiber and titanium work equally well with neither offering a distinct advantage. The resonance claim is marketing nonsense. There's no proof.

@@HighlineGuitars Thanks. I suspected as much. Now, a further question. I hope I'm not being a nuisance. What about using two truss rods in a 12-string neck as per the Rickies? I gather Ibanez also use two truss rods on some of the wide neck guitars, six- and eight-stringers and 7- and 8-string regulars.

@@AnnaStafford-zh1sz Totally unnecessary, especially if you use stiffening rods. Also, two rods add a stupid amount of weight. Furthermore, the idea that one rod would adjust one side of the neck separately from the other is thoroughly messed up.

@@HighlineGuitars That's good to know. I will yield to your greater experience and knowledge.

Don't go by what you hear from others. Go by what is proven. I seriously doubt you would be able to tell the difference.

Real guitar companies don't use wet wood - period. Baked wood is harder/stiffer/sometimes prettier.

Yes, the neck could be too strong for the truss rod to do what you need. However, In my experience, that has never happened. Of course, the quality of the truss rod is important here.

Some woods just look better flatsawn like zebrawood. Although, I like the padauk quartersawn personally.

Rods? Probably not. Tapered D-tubes? You bet!

@@HighlineGuitars Thanks so much for taking the time to get back! If you wouldn't mind, how would you fit them?

@@letz_getschwifty9785 With rods, I route a slot on each side of the truss rod and glue them in with epoxy. With a tapered D-tube, I would route a channel large enough to accommodate the structure and epoxy it into place. In both cases, the work is done before gluing on the fretboard.

@@HighlineGuitars Star! Much appreciated, thank you for helping me out! ✌️

It can, but as long as you use a high quality truss rod, it will still be effective. It just takes more torque to make an adjustment.

You're overestimating. As long as you use a high-quality truss rod, it'll do the job, no problem. Cheap truss rods will break.

@@HighlineGuitars sweet thank you so much.

www.amazon.com/dp/B083F1GQ47?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

@@HighlineGuitars Thanks!

I epoxy mine as well.

Unnecessary.

@@HighlineGuitars may i ask why? Im still learning allot about repair n ive warch you channel for a long time i forget to mention it was for a 7 string neck

@@kristopherdavis5824 If stability is your concern, carbon fiber will do the trick and then some. Making a laminated neck as well won't add anything but extra work.

@@HighlineGuitars ah thank you

They are an engineering firm with their own manufacturing facility. That facility is probably in China, I don’t know. At any rate their products are not available on AliExpress and I have never been able to find anything comparable on that site.

You can't take a flat sawn board and call it quarter sawn just by turning it 90°. A log that is quarter sawn is processed differently than a log that is flat sawn.

@@HighlineGuitars ​ @Highline Guitars yes, the log is turned 90 degrees with every cut, right? But my question is how the wood differs, if you have a board with straight lines, paralel to each other and a quarter sawn board, what would be the difference? I think straight lines and paralel is the definition of quarter sawn. If they are not parallel (or just about) the piece of the tree is too big, as then the lines would get symmetrical

@@thijs199 Flat sawn grain tends to curve more than truly quarter-sawn wood.

its hard to formulate the question, but as long as the faces of the board, so not the sides have lines going up and down, it's quartersawn, right? and the lines on the endgrain should not be on one side a little curved to the left and on the other side the other way around, because then you pass the heart of the tree, making it flatsawn again but just with quartersawn properties

@@HighlineGuitars yes I know, but I think the core of my question didn't quite make it, but no worries.

Maybe. However, using so many different species of wood could be the problem. Sure it looks cool, but Mahogany, Purpleheart, and Walnut react differently when the humidity changes suddenly. In my experience, laminated necks are unpredictable when more than one species of wood is used, even if the grain in each piece is oriented properly.

Because a lot of builders do them wrong without realizing it.

Yeah! To heck with making things better!!

I probably own and play two dozen guitars of various make and model, I have never had a neck warp, ever. Truss rod adjustments when I first set up the guitar, after that nada. Just my personal experience.

@@nickf9392 That's good! I'd like to think providing the guitars stays in similar humidity and temperature environment you shouldn't have a problem. But for players who travel will experience element changes like this which can influence the neck to move a lot. Hence why Roasted Maple has been a great alternative as its very stable against humidity changes. Also, worth noting that older vintage guitars show how necks can warp under string tension due to being under pressure for a long time.

Vigier Guitars....

it always seemed like something best suited for touring musicians rather than a necessity.

@@bleh8789 I would agree if you live in your Hometown and you've been there for years and years and years and you're not planning on going anywhere I don't think it's necessary to have carbon fiber rods unless you're in a 8 string or a 7 string guitar.. But if you move up-and-down a different climates and Google costs country as a touring musician you definitely have some kind of stability.. Let's some carbon fiber reinforcements. I guess unless your guitar Has a roasted neck.

I'd much rather make a one-piece Walnut neck with carbon fiber reinforcement.

I got rid of it years ago as I found it a PITA and useless.

@@HighlineGuitars Do you mean tilting it upright is useless idea and it's just an exspensive support?

@@Stu66orn I mean rotating a flat sawn board doesn't make it quarter sawn.

@@Stu66orn Basically. I think it's fine for those who just do repairs, but not really necessary for builders of new instruments.

@@HighlineGuitars Thank you for your reply! Did you use calipers or are they just a gimmick?