Love these type of GTN road vs tt bike videos - as it really drives home, triathlon doesn't need to be war against your wallet to obtain a spanked out TT bike when your road bike will be just as good if you aren't aiming for the podium.
Great video. I use my roadbike regardless any route. I cant affort to have more than one good bike. And i find the roadbike to be the best choice for me.
Regardless of us mere triathletes who won't be going to the championships there this is a VERY good test for ALOT of us who race a road bike OR a TT bike 👌🏻😍 so can you tell me what were the clip on bars being used need of a new set!!
and not to forget, you are a pro on your TT-bike and it is perfectly fitted to you. what difference would we see for an age grouper, pushing much lower watts and with much less experience on the TT-bike? ill do my first ironman next year and im not good at descents. so i have decided to stick to my road bike and not to use a TT-bike. its also a hilly course (2500m total elevation). if the ironman is really my thing, ill consider learning the TT-bike.
At the 2019 IMWC 70.3, I used a Cervelo P4 built light with mechanical groupset and medium deep aero wheelset. Weight was about 17 lbs. It was the perfect bike for that course. Handling is similar to a road bike. Climbed great. It was really fast on the flatter sections. My Cervelo P5 is a pig on climbs, and so are most modern triathlon/TT bikes.
Love the verdict in the end! Great comment! Though I do believe that as this is the World Championship and thereby entry is only permitted by qualification by being at the pointy end of the age group fields, most will be most comfortable on their Tri Bike as this is likely what they have accumulated many training hours on in order to be able to qualify.
I think this test would have been better done with an aero road bike, like the Aeroad, as opposed to the Ultimate. However, I still found this useful. I think that most, if not all of the athletes at the world championship level will be on tri bikes, but for the rest of us, the road bike with clip-on aero bars may very well be the better option (who can afford to have 2 high-end bikes)?
Thanks for the analysis, just wondering how much does wattage matter on the climbs? 325W is more than even the pros will be doing unless it's for a fairly short time to stay with a pack. At lower power outputs you'll be climbing slower meaning aero matters less and weight matters more.
Hi James as you eluded most people will not put as much power on a TT bike 10-20%? May be you should have done bike at set power and then done the TT bike at same average heart rate as road bike. Then they would be at same effort level 😁
I had a hilly local race last year, and with my 1x tri bike, I wasn't sure if my aero road bike with 2x was the better choice. I had a one piece bar and stem so no clip ons for the road bike. I pre rode the course with the same set of wheels on each bike. The tri bike won hands down, I would best bike split the difference first, but If I was going it would be tri bike. I know I climb faster on the tri bike, aero over weight. The road bike I have now I can put clip ons on, and that bike with different wheels and tires, is closer to the tri bike, but it's still going to give up 60 seconds per 40k.
My Felt AR5 with Canyon H11 Profile Design clip-on aerobars is nearly identical in speed to my Felt DA1. It's just slightly harder to dial in fit, and fit counts for that extra 5%.
The 38 seconds loss with the triathlon bike also seem a bit much to me. I have often driven identical routes very protected from the wind with road bike (S5 Rim) as well as triathlon bike (Cervelo P3 Rim), thereby with mutually matched powermeters. Mostly the triathlon bike was just as fast or only very slightly slower uphill due to the frequent use of the aerobars vs. no aerobars on the pure road bike. Also at about 1-1.5kg difference. Even if I weigh only 64-65 kg, the difference is really very small even for me. Without aerodynamics you are more in the range of 13 sec instead of 38 sec for 3 km at 9%. Or in my case 3 km 6%. In addition, the saddle position on the road bike is often not so far forward shiftable that you can reasonably lie on the aerobars. That would be for me even the main argument against (!) the road bike, because for me the position on the aerobars on the triathlon bike is significantly more comfortable. It depends of course on the bike skills and especially the habituation, but even downhill you have the potential (aerodynamically) to be faster with the triathlon bike. But ultimately: the route can be done with both bikes!
It looks like the Speedmax is a CF SLX with DT Swiss ARC 1400 SPLINE DB 62 front and 80 rear. The Ultimate had DT Swiss ARC 1100 DICUT DB 62's both front and rear. I wonder if the deeper rear rim on the Speedmax made it a bit faster as well.
Please don't laugh: I'm really confident in my gravelbike and, believe it or not, I'm often much faster than some guys on their road bikes and even on triathlon bikes. I must admit, that our local roads are a bit "twisty", so confidence is king! 🙂
If you fit the bike near identical a watt is a watt , but your prediction is so off because if the TT bike is slower up hill solely based off wt it will be much faster down hill with that extra wt. plus higher speed aerodynamic matter more. So if properly done we could see a downhill’s difference on 4-6 minutes over the 180 km per the 109 sec you predicted so that’s 2 free run kms ahead of the those on road bikes
Me - Starting with the hill climb? Dang, well im sure he did a warm up. James -"I probably should have done a warm" Me - Shakes my head with disapproval" lol
I did Nice last year on a TT bike with rim brakes. Wish I’d taken my road with disks as I was absolutely petrified on the downhills. Most people were on road bikes. And only 2 disc wheels!
@@jfloyo11 Iden, not Idan. What Im saying is that he choose the Road Bike because he didn't had other choice. No sponsor at that time (he has now GIANT has bike sponsor and rides the Trinity TT bike) to provide him a Triathlon/TT Bike. Otherwise he would go with TT bike. His words.
I'm taking the TT bike to Lahti and so it'll be the TT for me. I survived St George Utah on the TT and that was a godawful hot day, so this will be okay.
Great video! You did a good job comparing the numbers but really nailed the point about "being comfortable and used to the bike". With all the marketing and marginal gains, we tend to forget that for the amateur, this sport is first and foremost about being healthy (physiological and psychological). Descending without confidence in the material is definitely not the right thing to do. PS: I'd love to see more videos on the psychological effects. Let's say I get a close call descending and panic to 190bpm. How much do I lose? How do fans, competitors and cars affect me and can I differ between good / bad excitement?
I went to the age group world champs in Lausanne 2019, 70.3 worlds were in Nice a week later, so a lot of us Americans were doing both. There was a lot of discussion in the facebook group about what bike to use for Nice. I was just going for draft legal sprint in Lausanne, so it was road bike for me.
Are you using the same power meter or did you calibrate it? I don't think 38 s over less than 10 min is possible, because thats 6-7%difference, while weight difference of 1.5kg could only lead to time difference of 1.5/80(bike+rider) ~2%(~12s) max. But interesting result anyways.
While they tried to replicate the position and setup, I expect the hoods of the road bike to be higher than the triathlon base-bar. This, as well as the wider handlebar, might make it more comfortable to get the power out and even when you match the power numbers, this comfort can lead to smoother riding and therefore more gains than just the weight. That's what I really enjoyed about this comparison. There is always more to the sport than plain numbers.
They changed the handlebars on that ultimate to make it fit. I have a newer ultmate with the same bars as the aeroad. The aeroad bars(with the bolted on sides) aren't designed to put aerobars on them if you can get ones that fit. The new ultimate with full internal routing through the steam/cockpit, can't be switched over to traditional handlebar and stems because of the routing issue. I asked canyon about this last week
As we say in the shooting sports “It’s not the arrow, it’s the Indian”. Everyone likes what they like. I just did my first Tri on a MTB that I put the skinniest tires I could find on. It was a blast.
There’s something not quite right with James. I can’t put my finger on it but he seems to be pissed off for quite a while now, particularly compared to the continually effervescent Heather and Mark.
I agree he looks at all sorts - much like Frazier did. Maybe Mark and Heather don't want him around they are envious of his achievements. He is a world-class triathlete whereas Mark and Heather are ways less impressive in all departments. Especially style and presentation. James is a class above.
I can assure you that we're having a lot of fun behind the scenes on GTN. Doing multiple hard efforts in one day, on your own, will do that to you. I mean check out our recent Retro Tri...James was in his element :)
@@ironman140.6 See previous reply. We are normal people, and we do see these comments. Imagine reading a comment like this about your ability! James is an incredible athlete. We chat about his successes very often, and are incredibly proud to have him on team GTN. Heather is also an Olympic medallist! I'm just a short course guy, that did long course for a bit, but I love triathlon. We all work hard to bring videos to the channel for everyone to enjoy, for free
