The judoon were actually made for the sole purpose of making David Tennant say judoon platoon upon the moon because he had trouble saying words ending in oon without going back to his Scottish accent
Lonly Wanderer no actually they didn’t know how to introduce Martha as a companion then they figured out about his accent and made the whole episode because of that line
In Classic Who, monsters were first, and a story was written around them. Nowadays, it's the other way around. This means we get thematically woven villains, at the cost of not working outside of the context of the specific episode.
Expect that's not actually the case. It was true doing the Second Doctor's era (Well nowadays that era gets talked up for Troughton's performance, for a long time it was known for being the era of the monsters.) but that's about it. During the First Doctor's run there was the occasionally attempt to make another Dalek in terms of popularity and as merchandisable, but just as often they would make them good guys (Like Chumbley form Galaxy 4), and all atempts ended in failure(would you believe me if I told you they were really pushing the Voords as another big monster early on?). When Nation pulled the Daleks from the show to try and make his own show using them during the Second Doctor's era the Cybermen were quickly gang-pressed into being the new big-bads and attempts to make "the next Daleks" went into overdrive. But that basically died with the Second Doctor, as the show had a string of producers and script editors not big into reoccurring monsters. Oh some came up to be sure but it was never a goal. Heck when Robert Holmes made the Sontaran Linx he fully expected them to be a one off, but they showed up again soon after because season 12 was all about finding ways to save money and "we have perfectly good Sontaran outfit, and ship prop, we using them." was part of that. Just look at the number of monster additions after the Second Doctor, until the new Series the Autons are stuck in Pertwee's run, Silurians show back up in the Fifth Doctor as part of an era that thought pulling from the past was the key to the future, and that's it. And The Fourth Doctor in his seven year run has some real iconic monsters the Wirrn, the Zygons, robots from The Robots of Death, none of which have came back during the classic run, only the Zygons eventually did, 39 years later!
@@Devimon4000 - yeah, that's crazy! I've been watching the 3rd Doctor stuff, and so far *every single monster is recurring!* I always put it down to the monsters' iconography, but this makes more sense.
I feel like there's more potential to Ood. They've been relegated to background appearances, despite two fantastic episodes (Impossible Planet/Satan Pit and Planet of the Ood) that have VERY different plots and work very well in both.
I'd like to see the Ood getting up to misdeeds before becoming a slave race. They clearly have the ability to be evil, and as an emotional hivemind it would be interesting to see what form the evil of the Ood would take.
I'd like to see Ood who, after being brainwashed, enslaved and be made into SOLDIERS, don't really mind. They're being mentally manipulated to like it, and it's now become an accidental genetic trait.
@lex mota i feel that part the whole point of that episode is that this is the one and only chance he has to directly speak to the tardis, I feel that having it happen again would take away from that and I'd prefer it not happen again despite my love for that episode.
Actually, I think the species in the Telsa episode should have been the Krillitanes. A race known for their shapeshifting abilities that go around specifically stealing traits they like of the species they conquer. They either didn't have to look like spider/scorpions or rather if you insist on that look, they have a reason to look different. It also plays into the theme of Telsa having his work stolen better, and expanding on the Krillitanes lore, showing it's not just physical traits they steal, but other species technology as well I only don't like the Racnoss for that episode because it's established the Queen in Runaway Bride is the last of her kind, bar her children at the center of the Earth. Ignoring falling into the trope of 'Last of their kind....but not really' it also erases the act of genocide the Doctor is responsible for....which I hate. We already got that with the Daleks and Time Lords....I don't want him to go around causing genocide of course, but I want consequences to these actions to stick.
I think the only reason people want the Racnoss is because the character design is so similar it might as well be, thus connecting the universe and not making new monsters just for the hell of it. But you're so right! The Krillitanes actually would fit this story so much better because they're already established as culture copiers.
I'm glad you mentioned the SJA because the Trickster was a great villain and could be repurposed for any story. His thing is he wants to create chaos by stopping certain people from dying. That can work in a historical, present or future context.
@@purpleturtle8841 I'd love to see that. The Time Beetle in Turn Left was "one of the Trickster's brigade" so it does get a mention, but a proper Who story would be incredible. And to bring in the Reapers against them causing chaos? Phenomenal.
It wouldve worked so well in the rosa parks episode or demons from the Punjab in series 12 instead of that weird racist time traveller, stories revolving around making sure the events happen how they always should've
@@jhowza2990 how does that make sense a racist making sure that Rosa Parks sitting on the front of the bus happens how would that make anyone racist sounds like the story was graping at staws to me
@@DavidTyler - He was trying to prevent a pivotal moment in the Civil Rights movement, which relied on Parks coming into conflict with a racist man in a public place and refusing to back down. Before that point in the episode there are a few times when conflict is *avoided* by black characters hiding or biting their tongues in the face of abuse from white racists. It's establishing that the conflict needs to happen in order to trigger historical events. It's kind of like that Red Dwarf episode where they prevent the Kennedy assassination, which results in him still being in office to be impeached when his affairs become public knowledge. Or that RTD Pompei episode, where the eruption of Vesuvius turned out to be better than the alternative in terms of lives lost. Or Father's Day. The big difference is that "Rosa" didn't chicken out by showing us the alternative timeline that would've been created, so we could all be totally sure that it would've been worse.
I don't like the way Moffat used the Sontarans and Silurians (the Paternoster Gang), yes some Silurians could change, but the Sontarans are bred for war. Now it's been a few years since they've appeared, how about a new Sontaran story, or Slitheen?
Richard Bilton I don’t like how Moffat made the Sontarans laughing stock. Now I don’t know if I’ll find them threatening if they returned in the future.
@@lee-zp2mi - IIRC, the Sontarans have barely been in New Who. We had that first appearance in the Davies era, then Strax... and I think that's been it? Maybe a cameo here and there, but not much else. I think it'd be easy enough to bring them back, and in terms of making them threatening... just have them shoot some people. That'll do it.
Many times in NuWho the monsters are on the written page, but fail on the design table... The watering down of the Silurians concept's visual realization springs to mind... and even more recently Tzim-Sha (aka Tim Shaw), from The Woman Who Fell To Earth, is a perfect example. Here you have an alien monster who travels the universe taking teeth from it's interstellar victims, to incorporate into itself as armor... what appeared on screen was a bog-standard black Power Rangers costume, with a few human teeth stuck to an actors face... but I ask you... Can you imagine if we had actually received a monster wearing (merging with) armor made from a chaotic hodge podge of dripping alien tusks, fangs, mandibles, molars, incisors, proboscis and serrated jaws... grinding & snapping as it walked? It would have been an instant classic. The designed failed that monster... it shows a lack of focus creatively.
@@Ben-vf5gk My headcanon is that that mostly says a lot about Tim Shaw specifically. They're a warrior race who prove their valour by singlehandedly going to alien planets and bringing back a trophy. Of all the races in a dangerous universe, Tim Shaw specialised in *humans.* That seems very in character for someone who proved willing to "prove his valour" by cheating.
Thing is the Raknos are extinct, maybe they could've said the Skithra are related to the Raknos but I'm not bothered by that, making new stuff is fine and they are Skorpions which are cool
@@FTZPLTC The episode made it clear that they were extinct during the time the Earth was still forming. They can't really show up again during Tesla's time.
The Skithra steal technology and steal it for themselves - you could just adapt that trait to the Racnoss and write it in that they stole a time travel device from the Time Lords during their final days and a small party escaped before the slaughter. Maybe it only had enough juice for one trip so that’s what they need Tesla for - to fully charge the time travel device and redesign it to give them another trip to turn the tide in the Racnoss & Time Lord war. Would need expanding further :)
While you couldn't easily bring back the Foretold from Mummy on the Orient Express, you could definitely bring back Gus, he got away scot free at the end after all.
tbh Mummy on the Orient Express is pretty much what Moffat did instead of recurring villains - rather than have a villain come back, he'd show us something that was just mentioned in passing in an earlier episode.
exactly!!! We have seen the blathereen in the sarah jane adventures, and maybe the doctor could travel to Raxacoricofallapatorius to idk sort out some issues on the planet., Could you imagine if the slitheen hid in the skins of the other Raxacoricofallapatorians to infiltrate their homeplanet and eventually take back control!!! (if you didn't know they are fugitives and fled their planet to hide from the other Raxacoricofallapatorians and judoon.)
You left out the greatest RTD monster of all....the Midnight Entity. Another one of those aliens that should never be brought back because it was in the 'not knowing' that made it (IMHO) the greatest nuwho episode of all. Now, bringing back paranoid humans stuck in a confined area who ACT like monsters is a different story (no, no, no a million times no to "Orphan 55")
so uh, when i saw the nikola tesla episode, i thought the monsters were the same thing as the spider queen the 10th faced off against until this video pointed out this was not the case.
@@purpleturtle8841 Well, they're time travelers and the racnoss queen said she was last of her kind in the 2000-2010s, nikola tesla, at his apparent age in show, lived about a hundred years prior, the alien scorpions had a ship in disrepair since they cobbled it together out of stolen bits, and then a lot of damage was done to them. So I when i say the episode I thought "oh neat, this must be why that spider alien was there in 10th's run in the earth's future." but now realizing the spider aliens aren't the same as the scorpion aliens (thus now making more sense why they were scorpions and not spiders in hindsight). I like the idea that they could be related, especially since I think a spacefaring race that settle on different planets would gradually evolve in divergent ways, assuming there are enough differences between planetary environments.
This I think ties in pretty closely with how settings were used in the RTD run. Settings like a space station, UNIT base, or human colony, can all have at least a couple adventures without seeming overdone. Revisiting New Earth, or Satellite 5, or that one bar, meant we could get a little more familiar with the universe and expect certain aliens or even certain faces. Places/events being referenced outside their main episodes, or given direct callbacks like in "Turn Left" was great for achieving a similar effect to repeat monsters. Media outside the main series is really great for this kind of thing, my memories of Dr Who are embellished by comics and spin-offs that gave more time to things that could only feature briefly in the main series.
I’m not sure that classic who has that many that are instantly recognisable by the General public. Dakeks, Cybermen and MAYBE ice warriors? As fans we know the zygons, Silurians, Organ’s etc... but I’m not sure they have much general recognition outside of fans.
That's true, but I'd still argue that they're more recognisable than a lot of NuWho monsters, even if it is JUST to fans, they still have enough of a legacy to return. My point is more that it's NuWho's job to try and replicate that for its own monsters rather than continuing to rely on Classic monsters so that they're iconic enough for future episodes to have their returns feel big.
The master is another example of a classic monster that the general public is familiar with, apart from weeping angels I'm not sure the general public would be familiar with any modern who villains. A good way to determine a monster's longevity for me is if they appeared in episodes not written by their creator and episodes in eras of the show overseen by different producers/show runners. Classic who has a number of monsters who fit this category including the Daleks, Cybermen, the Great intelligence, Autons, Silurians, the Master, Sea Devils, Omega, Sontarans, Davros, Zygons, and the Black Guardian.
Very interesting. I'm trying to think of a monster\villain from NuWho that I would like to see back but I can't really think of any. Maybe the Reapers from Father's Day could be used again. Like you pointed out about the Judoon, they also have a specific purpose. Also, I remember being so confused when they didn't show up in The Big Bang when Amy touched her younger self. But im over that. Come to think of it though, I don't know if there is a new story to be told with them. So yeah youre right, there's a monster problem.
I think the Reapers are also difficult because they're a continuity nightmare. Theoretically they should show up every episode, because there are so many paradoxes!
@@HarboWholmes I like to think of it as paradoxes that specifically can be fixed just by eating something. If it's a paradox such as Amy and Rory killing themselves then the Reapers wouldn't actually change anything, whereas if someone lived when they should have died then if history is set straight there won't be that paradox.
The Reapers are an example of a monster whose absence is confusing. Maybe with the Time Lords gone, there are just so many paradoxes for them to feed on all over the universe that the chances of them running into the same one the Doctor's at - for a second time - are statistically minuscule.
Stephen Derry I think the Reapers in “Father’s Day” appeared because the Doctor and Rose went there twice. Like, if Rose has saved her dad the first time she was there they may not have come.
Some of the best episodes of Who have introduced "monsters" that can't be brought back! "The Empty Child" is one of my all-time favorites. You're right, that "monster" can't be brought back, but the quality of the episode is virtually unparalleled in the Whoverse, IMHO. I would rather have a show that ran fewer episodes for a shorter duration and had a larger number of episodes of this caliber than a long running series that recycles the same adversaries over and over again. Much as Star Trek showed with the Borg, there are only so many stories about Daleks and Cybermen that can be told without rendering the enemy comically easy to defeat. I think that's what ultimately led to the series lengthy hiatus in '89, and I think we've long since re-entered this mediocrity with modern Who.
The thing that turned me off the series is related to this, but kind of the opposite. Every new monster gets dealt with in one episode (or a two-parter), which makes it feel like the Doctor can just take care of whatever problem crops up. There's not really any stakes, since I know the Doctor is just going to come up with something and all the problems will be solved. If he had to take a loss every once in a while and set a couple monsters up as being probably beatable but not right now, that would lead to suspense. You would never know if the Doctor is going to come up with something this time or if this will be one of those losses where everyone who survives is lucky. The fact that new monsters never really come back just makes them feel too easy to deal with and I lost interest in seeing what the Doctor was going to pull from his backside to end the threat forever.
The Sea Devils and the Yeti (although it’s creator, the Great Intelligence, did return for several episodes) are the two most significant classic series monsters that have yet to return. Single time monsters from the classic show that can come back are the Zarbi, the Draconans, and the Wyrvin.
The Vashta Nerada can absolutely come back. The population in the Library weren't all of the swarm that existed, it's stated in the episode that they inspired the universal fear of the dark. Meaning they've been around. Well outside of a library, at least. They most definitely can come back, and should. It's a bit short sighted to say they can't be viable returning presences because of their strong ability to survive. If anything, that's what makes them scary. Cybermen, Daleks, etc are great but they're also equally disposable. With the Vashta Nerada, they can be anywhere, anytime and if their numbers are great enough, you can't help but run from them. That's a great hallmark of a villain, and Moffat nailed the idea that even outside the Library, they can still be a problem for anyone else.
I understand what you're saying and honestly I agree - the Vashta Narada have a lot left to give in them. In the video Harbo argues that by the same token the fact that there's no way to defeat them means that they aren't quite suited to adventures other than horror but I think you could both remix the tale a little to make them not the focus and have it more of a romp or simply write a very different kind of horror, one on a space base or under the ocean on a world that used to be a forest. Even an episode set in a forest on earth where the Vashta Narada have been introduced and it's up to the doctor and co to find out who put them there and why
Maybe the Royal family being werewolf could have been brought up again. Since they founded Torchwood and are presumably trained about the doctor and the supernatural. Maybe a member could get cocky and try to use monsters to lure the doctor and have it backfire then have them appreciate the doctor and try to subtly help him in the future.
There needs to be a decent balance Chris has clearly tried to make longlasting villains, such as Tim Shaw, but just didn't land at all really. Series 12 feels more in line with what the Davies era would do. I'd say bring back some original New Who villains but don't overuse them the way the show does with the Daleks and the Cybermen, maybe one year we get a Slitheen story, don't see them for a while, have a Weeping Angel story at some point, and for god sake just make a Trickster episode
I felt Zellin had the potential to be a recurring villain, but the abrupt ending just made him look pathetic, especially since he was just under someone else, who we didn't get nearly enough time with to get a grip of her character
IDK. If we get the same creatures every time a particular niche appears, then the universe will start to feel a little small. It's a balance thing ultimately.
One monster I'd like to see expanded on are the Rutans, the sworn enemy of the Sontarians that was only seen in one story in the show. I had an idea for an episode that would feature one that would take place on Roanoke, the first British colony in the new world that vanished mysteriously, The Doctor and their companion(s) would arrive to try to uncover what happened only for them and the colony to be whisked away to another planet by the Croatoan, an avian like race of mercenaries hired to find a supposed "deserter" and discover one of colonists is really a Rutan that was disconnected from the group consciousness and fled to escape the endless war. In the end The Doctor finds that the Croatoan take abiding by their contracts seriously and logics a way to let the rouge Rutan stay with the colonists now stranded on this new world while allowing the Croatoan to convince the Rutans that they completed the job resolving the matter without further bloodshed.
Exactly. Don't like the design? Or the cgi? Or are they too strong? Or not strong enough? Next episode, that's all solved. And they felt like villains to be reckoned with, based on how they were characterised by Brother Lassar. Almost as weighty as the time lords and daleks
It'd be interesting to see the Racnoss come back, especially since the way The Doctor dealt with their Queen left a bad taste in Donna's mouth and it was brought up again later. Turn Left even did an alt. take on the story where The Doctor dies stopping her.
@@ThePhantomLK like the red ones, in the sarah jane adventures. Loved tomato soup, and were still evil (and working with some weird small guy with a strange shaped head), but that's about all I remember.
There's a fantastic 9th doctor era novel called the Monsters Inside which is really the Slitheen revival two parter we never got. Set on a prison plant in the human empire the doctor and rose get arrested or are accidentally in there (I can't quite remember) but some of their cell mates are Slitheen (or rather Raxacorico... ect) and there's a whole race to find out if the prison officials are actually just in skin suits and plotting a takeover. It's brilliant.
We need an episode(s), around the Weeping Angels, that's treated as a horror story. But they target of the angels are children for the amount of life they would lose. Hell would be an interesting thing to be in the background of the series
I'd love to see the Slitheen/Raxacoricofallapatorian's make an appearance again. As a child watching Alien's of London/World War Three and Boom Town I really liked the design of the characters. Sure, the whole farting gag is something that should maybe be left out, but they're pretty interesting characters, especially since their body suits give them the potential to be anyone. Imagine if we had a companion who slowly but surely reveals to the audience, and then to the Doctor, that they're of Raxacoricofallapatorian decent!!!
I really like the idea of a companion not being who they seem. Turlough failed in classic who, but maybe we could have a companion who is a slitheen, or is under cyber control, or is an auton, or really whatever. Hell, perhaps a companion could be the master in disguise, though the master in disguise is so overused by this point that there's no point
A good outline for the issues which have plagued NuWho. The monsters simply haven’t been as memorable or used as open-ended as the classic era, and yes - many times I’ve seen NuWho use new monsters when you can insert older ones in that would make it more interesting and make it feel like Doctor Who. But I suppose, on the flip-side, the universe is big. Very big.
"Most NuWho monsters are relegated to only appearing as cameos." Revolution of the Daleks showing a Weeping Angel, Ood, Sycorax, Silent and the P'ting: "Wanna see me do it again?"
I would like to see more classic villains bought back as well as new ones. Nuwho is horribly inconsistent as you say, with establishing certain characters and then never using them ever again when they could. The main problem of late is all the story points being regurgitated from before. Oh look the Masters back. And Gallifrey's destroyed. Again. Yawn. I dont' know why they didn't take advantage of Gallifrey being back AT ALL apart from Hell Bent. It would have opened up all sorts of new doors for Nuwho but no. We don't get nice things. We just get the same rehashed story over and over now. Sigh.
I agree, I was very keen for a new doctor and a whooole new line of stories stemming from the ramifications of galifrey's return but nope. Even after Hell Bent and that, I think it was a perfect time to set up Galifrey as a big power in the background but that hasn't happened.
I mean, technically we could have another plasmavore story as well. Obviously treated differently from Florence in Smith and Jones but it would be an interesting concept. The same goes for vespiforms or something similar
One way to bring back the nanogenes (and by extension, the gasmask zombies) from "The Empty Child"/"The Doctor Dances" could be to have it so that there's a character who somehow finds out about what happened, and gets a hold of nanogenes and reprograms them so they are supposed to make people gasmask zombies, rather than heal them, and use them minions of some kind? It's not exactly doing the same thing, as they'd be new versions of monster, but it would be familiar enough that we'd get a callback - it could also be surprising for The Doctor as they shouldn't be able to come back, but (due to the loophole), they have.
Thats the thing Chris has distance himself to far that it now has been classed as a reboot hence why Graham said in the first episode that Aliens dont exist, ddeerrrrr Graham all the christmas invasions and includding davros taking the Earth thousands of light years across the galaxy and the sontarons and the battle at canary Wharf, ooohhhh yeah course Graham Aliens in Doctor Who dont exist. This significantly prooves how chibnal is so arrogant to class his era as the best of all whilst not listening to fans and the BBC blatently stating no matter what the show will continue in the direction it is going.........
This is not Chris Chibnall's fault, it's just how the show works. Doctor Who constantly forgets plot points, events, and characters until it's convenient to the plot. Do you not remember how in the very first episode of new who, aliens are treated as just as mad a concept as they are in the real world, despite the many alien invasions that have occurred at this point.
I mean that's how Doctor Who just is. But if we want to continue complaining about forgotten plot points anyone going to mention how a young Graham apparently didn't hear METAL MEN in london?
The problem is the same villains are always coming back and in the Peter Capaldi and Jodie Whitaker era we have had few memorable new villains. They need to start consistently creating new and interesting threats to create enemies for the next 50 years to draw upon
A monster I'd love to see return is Hydroflax from "Husbands of River Song." A sentient powered armor that steals people's head was an insanely fun concept. It was an AI, so it could have a back-up somewhere...
Anyone else ever notice that the kid from the empty child had this dead stare in his eye? You can just barely see it through the mask. Give this kid an award
I’ll give Moffat credit for one thing. They may not be new monsters, but he successfully revived both the Zygons and Ice Warriors after Davies revived the Cybermen, the Master, the Daleks, Davros, and the Sontarans.
What an interesting idea for the episode. I loved your discussion, as it was an interesting point: That a lot of new Who villains haven't been given the status and staying-power as older enemies. Though I can see some villains, like the Vash Nerada and villains like the Silence recurring, you make a solid argument why not. If you make the villains more simplistic and malleable, they have a better chance of recurring. Frankly, though, I want some more classic who villains returning, too, as, in terms of finales and big threats, we normally get the Daleks, Master or Cybermen. They need to bring back another classic enemy or create a new one, that can recur this much. Personally, though not TECHNICALLY a Doctor Who villain per-say, I'd say the PERFECT villain to become a recurring antagonist on the show would be THE TRICKSTER from the Sarah Jane Adventures. He recurred throughout that show and was a really original threat with some of the best stories from that show. Also, he has been referenced in both Doctor Who and Torchwood. He's frankly one of the best villains introduced in new Who and feel the villain we are searching for to become the next Daleks or Master is the Trickster, someone sitting right under our noses.
We need a episode on Raxicoricofallipatorius now RTD is back, imagine a episode on the planet, after all the Slitheen were criminals it’d be great to see their race in a normal civil manor, and maybe slitheen or another crime family strikes there?
I really like this. I would love to see some villains who have been in the New Who once to return: - Krillitanes - The Flood (just check the comic The Wolves of War and you’ll understand how easy The Flood could come back) - The Racnoss - The Sycorax But also, I would love for them to incorporate villains from SJA and Torchwood. The Trickster from SJA was by far the best recurring villain. And the Doctor even faced the Trickster in The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith, so it wouldn’t be the first time, however it’s still connecting the spin off to the parent. What about the Weevils from Torchwood? They were recurring. You’d think the Doctor would’ve come across a Weevil. Even if it’s a cameo, SHOW THE CONNECTION between both shows. I do respect Torchwood for not having that many DW villains because it’s a more adult show so you’re expecting more scary and crazy villains that may not be acceptable for DW, however SJA was the complete opposite. Some DW villains such as The Slitheen were compatible because of their nature, them farting were bound to entertain the younger audience. Like I said above. The one villain from the expanded Whoniverse that should return is The Trickster. Each Trickster story is circulated around Sarah Jane, her past, present, life, love. They could easily do that with The Doctor or a companion. CHRIS CHIBNALL NEEDS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS! Engage the audience more, create the homages
We need more planets more alien civilisations both more and less developed than ours. Then we can open up a huge Cuban exiles for returning monsters but unique scenarios and plot and characters.
I agree but in all honesty I think a ton of late era moffet monsters all just have a very samey bland design. The number of knock off ice warriors and know off silence was ridiculous. If you go through every moffet monster and look out for "is a warrior race in a big metal suit" or "has either it's eyes or mouth missing and has a sunken hike in its place" thats a majority of them and they just aren't memorable because you can't tell them apart. I'd like to see more Davis monsters come back though because their designs were always great
A lot of late-Moffat monsters are bland, but I'm not sure what you mean about knockoff Ice Warriors and Silence? The only monsters like that I can think of are the Mira and the Series 10 Monks. What others are there?
I see your point that the Skithra could have been the Racnoss. But the Skithra themselves are very reusable - it's actually a pretty neat and flexible idea to have a scavenger warrior race too arrogant to maintain their own equipment and who force others to do it for them. This also makes them very scalable - a group of Skithra who've salvaged from, say a Dalek-Movellan battlesite could be pretty terrifying. Overall Chibnall has done a pretty good job of introducing monsters who can be reused. He spent the start of Season 11 building up the Stenza, so hopefully we'll be seeing them again (as an *empire* not just Tim Shaw). The Kasaavin are pretty terrifying and could always take a different tack to trying to infiltrate our universe next time. The Morax seemed like they could be a serious threat if you didn't already have the handy tech near by to recontain them. Even the P'ting could see a lot of use with better execution. Imagine one side in a war weaponising them. Or someone having built a colony on a P'ting breeding planet. etc. Personally I wouldn't mind a followup to Praxeus where it's learnt that Praxeus was in the process of becoming sentient when the Doctor slaughtered it on Earth.
I'd like to know why the Sontarans were changed from 'almost Ice Warrior size' heavyweight bruisers to 'barely competent comedy relief dwarfs with an attitude problem'? I'd like to see the Zarbi come back with their 'mind-web', also the Sea Devils and Draconians. Apart from the Weeping Angels, the Silence and the Ood none of the new ones have truly gripped me enough to want more. Three out of how many? And I really do think it's high time they had another 'political whodunnit' on Peladon!
In fairness Ice Warriors have appeared twice as the main monsters in new who. The great intelligence and the Zygons too. But I totally agree, it’s a shame the show seems to be losing its feel of continuity and familiarity. It’d be awesome if we learnt more about the politics of the universe like factions in wars and so forth. Idk that’d be cool.
I think the vardy or vardey or whatever from smile could be brought back. At the end of smile they're turned good and then it ends, we never see them again. I think the vary or vardey or whatever being programmed to serve humans and prevent negative emotions could be used for something.
• The Angels weren't unique; the game _Condemned: Criminal Origins_ did it with store mannequins two years before "Blink", and there have been other creatures that only move when not observed before that. Similarly, the Ood are just Cthuloids. • 11:22 - I thought it _was_ supposed to be the same creatures. 😕 • Baby Yoda's got nothing on the Adipose.
I more meant that the Angels were really unique for a Doctor Who villain. It's also that they were frequently appearing during the peak of NuWho so it gave them a huge cultural boost that dwarfs Condemned and other 'quantum-locked' style creatures. And I'm not familiar enough with Lovecraft to know what a Cthuloid is, but his works are public domain, so I wouldn't mark it against the Ood for being heavily inspired by something in the public domain
Monsters that haven't returned and could return: Sea Devils- maybe we could have an episode where the sea devils cause the boxing day tsunami, Rutans- we could have a Sontaran and Rutan battle with the Paternoster gang. Missy should have been the Rani or Ruth could trick the doctor with the master. The Krotons, Morbius, the Krynoid, Sutekh, Vashta Nerada, Drashigs, Mechanoids, Voords, The Celestial Toymaker, Sil, Ogrons, Axons, Peladon, Wirrn, Mr Sin, Metebelis spiders, Fendhal, Omega, Eldrad are all used in Big Finish so let's face it. Big Finish steals the opportunity for a doctor who story with old classic monsters. Hell, we could have had the Sycorax, the weeping angels and the judoon. I know this episode will be the most controversial but why can't the doctor get a thousand oods, take them to 18th Century America so they can get replaced by African slaves, when the red-eye happens, it'll teach the slave owners that they should never own slaves. I felt like the Dregs could have been those wolf people in Inferno, Praxeus could have had the sea devils, Rosa could have had the meddling monk and the ood could have appeared in Kerblam.
The Angels being brought back in the 2 parter is mixed, it's nice to see them again, but they're pretty poorly handled there. The Vashta Narada could be brought back as an "unexpected" solution to another threat the Doctor and co are facing though; Have it be established that they're present early on, but they're docile (that they were hunting live humans, and were in swarms large enough to do so was stated to be unusual), so we start by thinking they'll be the main threat, only for a different danger to emerge, which causes a bunch of chaos and panic over the story, gradually stirring up and agitating the Vashta Narada in the background, and towards the end of the episode, when the main threat seems to have everyone cornered they walk into some shadows and get eaten, because Vashta Narada was able to identify "this is the one that's bothering me", and just lets the Doctor and crew go, either because they're simply disinterested or because they're related to/ have communicated with the swarm from Silence in the Library/ Forest of the Dead and are already familiar with the Doctor to just give them a free pass again. They're clearly intelligent when in a large enough swarm as seen at the end of those episodes. But bringing them back as the true threat of an episode would just feel like a retread, if they're brought back I think it's best to have them as a looming danger/ expected danger in the background, secondary to the main concern, be it a monster or situation. Things like the Raknos and Skithra, all they need to really say is they're related, like how we have many different species of spider, but they're all spiders. Shared ancestry branched in different yet similar directions.
I want new and old monsters I want monster to come back from the 10th and 11th doctor and even 12th like.... peg dolls clock world droids racknos altoms sorturens weeping angels the snowmen Candy man whisper men ice warriors k 9 the robotic dog the smilers Addipost the were wolf slab from smife and jones yeti from classic who the monks LIKE IF U AGREE and I want all of these monsters to be redesign and I want some of them to be in series 13 and in the 14th doctor
I don't see it as a problem. I think a lot of the old mosters being so beloved is more due to nostalgia than the monsters being so good, with a few exceptions. Most were of the guy in a rubber suit variety. I find a lot of the new monsters far more interesting. Generic monsters are more easily reusable but that doesn't necessarily make them more interesting than the more unique monsters tied to a single story. I like it. It forces more originality and creativity. It keeps things fresh instead of just reusing the same old stuff.
basically they make the episodes and then add the monsters. This is more noticeable in the Whittaker era. As every villain is a human from earth (normally a middle aged American who doesn’t believe in global warming) and the monsters are used by humans just so bbc can get juicy clicks from the trailers.
I think some good ones to bring back are - Ood (they have the ood sphere back now, what are they going to do with free will???) - Krillitanes (such potential with the stealing other species idea) - Tivolians (if only just a cameo. Their society is so interesting) - Sycorax (because as they said, Sycorax rock) - Krynoids (extremely underrated story from classic who) - Gus (because gus)
Don’t put the Russell Era on a pedestal, otherwise chibnall might bring back the Absorbaloff, TV Lady, and Fear Her doodle monster. Or his own Sunshine monster.
I feel like the only reason classic who had recurring monsters was budgets.. new who wants you to see all the types of things that can exist and now budgeting isnt an issue with creating new monsters.. but i do see the points being made about what should have been such as with that spider lady and the lookalike that has sycorax styled teeth 😂
A planet of the Sycorax would be difficult because according to Doctor Who: The Visual Dictionary, the Sycorax "ship" we see in the series is actually the asteroid in which the species originated, which they fitted with spaceship engines after one collided with them. However, a lot of the stuff in that book has since been contradicted in canon, so who knows.
I don’t like the concept of an entire species being monolithically characterized. There should be nice vampires, nice Judoon, friendly Ice Warriors, friendly Zygons… It’s uncomfortable, and improbable to think, that an entire civilization would be considered “evil”.
I still can't walk around my own house in the dark after watching blink. Outside, alone taking a walk at one am? Just fine! Alone in my house... GET ALL THE LIGHTS ON. Statues randomly in a park... must keep eye on them. No matter how irrational I know it is it still freaks me out.
I would honestly like to see Xylok in new episodes ( it's a monster from Sarah Jane Adventures ). In the finale of the season one ( episode "The lost boy" ) we find out that Mr.Smith is just a small piece of Xylok that fell to Earth in meteorite millions of years ago. Just image that one day someone will dig it up. And it will subjugate the entire planet with the help of technology and computers
So Doctor Who doesn't have a monster problem, what you're saying is, it has a writer problem. RTD was a great writer, and made the Doctor Who universe a good size and familiar - bringing back Sarah Jane, the Autons and the Macra, for example. Moffat brought back the Silurians (with the same storyline but in Wales 2020), the Great Intelligence, the Zygons and reluctantly the Ice Warriors. Maybe Chibnall will return to the familiarity - we've already seen the Judoon and Captain Jack again.
I have been thinking about this one for ages. Whilst making a monster for the plot makes sense as analogies, it is nice to have recognisable faces in your rogues gallery. It's nice for more recent fans to recognise something THEY grew up with rather than what their parents remembered from their childhoods. The Reapers are an obvious one but they would bring in a can of worms asking where they were during the Moffat era. The real ones that make the most sense would be the Krillitanes from School Reunion. They literally have an adaptational evolution path where they steal traits from those they conquer. Honestly, an episode which leads on a cliffhanger of an Earth colony turning out to be Krillitanes would be very interesting and with Chibnall's morality led episodes (regardless of how skewy it is), colonialism would be a good theme with them. The Slitheen are another obvious choice considering they were merely a family amongst the rest of their planet and their iconography is present in the Abzorbaloff and the Blathereen. The issue with Moffat and Chibnall's eras are that they either have plot based monsters or handle monsters like a primary school writing class. Not to mention the names don't have the same gravitas as they do in the Davies' era... and some episodes which didn't need a monster get one stuck in like the Witchfinders.
I think while there are many good points made in this video - there's just one thing making the comparison of classic and new who monsters a little unfair... time. Classic who not only has 20+ seasons, but has been accessible to us for over 50 years. Monsters have had ample time to reoccur and gain nostalgia from a vast array of great episodes. New Who has only been around for 13 seasons and around 15 years now. Given enough time, I think fantastic monsters from Davies and Moffat's eras will make a return. Let's not also forget the budget... how expensive do you think the Racknoss Empress was to build, to apply and remove makeup for every day of shooting, and to puppeteer? Surely that's a valid reason for them not returning any time soon...
There are defo some awesome monsters they could bring back; The racnoss, the reapers, clockwork droids, the Teller, the slitheen and the cat nuns to name a few! :O
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I prefer that monsters hardly ever come back, though. When a monster is recurring, the episodes it is in either revolve around those monsters or waste them. When episodes don't have recurring monsters, it's because the purpose of the episode is to tell a story *other* than that of the monsters featured in it. For these episodes a monster is still important, but it shouldn't be focused on. Furthermore, every episode that revolves around a recurring monster is an episode that *doesn't* contribute a new monster, and if Doctor Who just used the same 10 recurring villains over and over again it would end up feeling like a very small universe.
Generally, a story won't perfectly fit a particular monster, so you'll either have to fit the story to the monster (it revolves around the monster) or it fits the monster to the story (wastes them). It occasionally works when the monsters are improved (the Daleks during Russel T Davies) or they fit each other like a hand in a glove (Planet of the Oods). However, with a show like Doctor Who, the monsters are a big part of the show, and it's worth getting them to be re-used, be it for weaponized nostalgia, creating a more connected universe or just because you need that good baddie in your story.
Honestly, I agree with you. I think it says something that quite a few of the NuWho monsters that receive near-universal praise from fans (the Midnight Entity; the Vashta Narada, and the gas-mask zombies in particular) are ones that were never seen again beyond their respective introductory episodes and most people tend to hold Blink in much higher regard than any of the later Weeping Angel stories. To my mind, quantity is never really equal to quality, especially when it comes to villains and monsters. After a while, the same ones popping up time and time again just makes their appearances gradually less and less effective because either you already know what their deal is and what they're going to do (and in some cases how they'll be defeated) or the writers feel the need to stuff in some other abilities/lore concerning them in order to try and keep them scary or seem genuinely threatening. The Daleks and the Weeping Angels (and lately the Master/Missy) especially suffered from this problem, in my opinion. If a monster is genuinely good, it doesn't need repeated appearances to become iconic or memorable.
I love how they used the darleks as not only a scary doctor who monster but also created an emotional connection with the doctor for all hes lost and sacrificed trying to rid the darleks from the universe and from his life they just keep turning up often putting the doctor in a position where he finds himself struggling with his passive self against the rage he feels.this can be seen during the last episode of Ecclestones doctor or with tennants doctor on series 4 when he struggles with the act of genocide his meta crisis doctor performed, regardless of the fact it was a race he despises he cant forgive his double for what he did and banished him to the alternative universe.
Yeah but the Racnoss was huge, there are some rooms smaller than it, like those featured in Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror. Budget. Episode 4 of a series won't have the same budget as a one off Christmas special.
Why couldn’t the monks from series 10 been nimons literally just take the Minotaur from the god complex and take the classic colour tones and give them golden horns ... You could have even kept the monks as the low ranks of the invasion force
AGREED. Personally, I'd love to see more of the Sycorax - there feels like a good amount of unexplored territory there; perhaps a storyline involving a lot of the show's B-teer villains (also including the Sontarans, Ice Warriors, Zygons, and Judoon for e.g.) could be really interesting to see.
@@Micegift Thank-You! Here, Tell me if you think this is cool: The Doctor regenerates, but ends up completely forgetting who he/she is, and for some complex reason kind of goes evil for a short amount of time. The Tardis eventually response to this, by taking him/her to the year 2225, where they materialize in front of a house. The Doctor knocks on the door, to find a familiar face; 'Hello! Sorry, we're kind of busy at the moment, but we'll get to you soon! Uh, what do you need? Help for repairs of damage to Big-Ben, or are you volunteering to help those who are still recovering from loss of of families and properties? Oh dear. You're not from the cult of: #TheDaleksDidNothingWrong, are you?' Doctor: 'Susan?' Susan: (Looks him/her over for a few moments) 'Grandfather? Is that You?' Doctor: (Grabs his/her forehead) 'Oh my giddy aunt... I remember now. I remember everything. Ugh!' Susan: 'What is it?' Doctor: 'I just realized I'm Still not ginger!/I just realized I'm Finally ginger!' Susan: 'You kept your promise! You came back! Doctor: 'Yes... Yes, you could certainly say I did. Still, we met before right? In my 8th incarnation. And that time where there were 5 of us... Well, more 3 1/2, and- ' Susan: 'Hang on! There's someone I think you'd like to meet! Come on in!' (The Doctor follows Susan into her living room) Doctor: 'You've redecorated!... Not bad, actually!' Susan: 'Grandfather! Look.' (The Doctor sees a familiar face sitting in a chair) Doctor: 'Well I never! Ian Cheserston!' Ian: 'Ah! So you finally bothered to show up!' Doctor: 'You recognize me?' Ian: 'Of course I do! How could I not recognize that enthusiasm! You've certainly changed a lot! Mid-life crisis?' Doctor: 'Nah! Already gone through 2 of those! Wore a coat that might have been Too colorful the first time, and then a leather jacket the 2nd time, which wasn't that bad I guess. Wait a minute... How are you?... It's the 23rd Century!' Ian: 'Oh, well I'm surprised you haven't heard the rumors! Me and Barabra hardly aged since 1965! We slowly began to realize we were just aging a little slowly... ' Doctor: 'Oh. I think Sarah once told me about that... Barabra! Where is she?' Ian: ... Susan: (Looks down at the floor) Doctor: ... Well. It's been very nice to see you again. Both of you. I wish you the absolute best... Fancy a trip?' Ian: (Laughs) In this old body? I think I've been wearing a bit thin. But it's not trouble really- I... I've seen quite a lot over the past... Hoo. 250 years? Exactly. But I've never forgotten what we had been through. I actually went on a mission with Susan not that long ago! Saw the Sensorites again! It was marvelous!' Doctor: 'I'm sorry I took so long.' Susan: 'Don't worry Grandfather ( ... or Grandmother.) Like you said... There were no regrets, no tears, no anxieties... ' Doctor: 'I will always remember every line of that... I will don't remember... When The Doctor was Me... Don't ever forget me.' Ian: 'Oh Doctor, please. Don't ever forget Us.' Doctor: 'Oh Chatterton... Chesterston... No one's ever going to forget you.'
I thought that series 11 wasn't the greatest but hats off to chibnall for trying to introduce new monsters. They weren't creepy or threatening but he tried
That's not a problem. Monsters don't need to come back, ussually a plot works better when it focuses on itself, without forcing in the possibility for a sequel. The empty child and the doctor dances are still some of the best monsters, and if they where made to return, they would be less scary, and if they did return it would feel cheep. Most of the monsters that do come back are ussually, as you said, one of a billion warrior races.
Actually I would contest the gas mask part as it could be brought back in different forms like a way the master could phycologicaly mess with the doctor use the program from another ship or a virus that could affect the little Robots plus who made the little bots it's like the regenerating cybermen that could have been much more interesting if not put in as an afterthought they were mainly indestructible and knowing how to kill the monster too easily makes it dull as they return and two seconds later they are defeated exactly why in horror films they have a fake death so the audience can be caught off guard. The silence links to the men in black the next way they can come back is simple them chasing other races for their own cause plus being mainly invisible to the view could connect to a secret new character kept under the control of the silence because if they realise the truth something drastic could happen also they are the secret race
The producers and writers did as they said they were going to do with the franchise and went back to it's original intient of teaching about historical figures within it's storylines, and the end of the current seasion brreathed some much needed new life and dimension into what was becoming a stale and burdonsome storyline.
