For some reason there tends to be confusion around two particular issues in this one - Clara dying/not dying is the first - she still dies on Trap Street exactly as we saw. We know her death is a fixed point, and we know the consequences of breaking that, its what this episode is all about the Doctor risking the entire universe by trying to save her, the fact the universe doesnt get destroyed means she dies as she is supposed to - how long her 'wiggle room' lasts is an open question, but its unlikely it was that long as the Time Lords would have found her if she didnt go back by choice. But she still dies as we saw no matter what. The second one is who is the Hybrid? I've never understood why so many say this is not resolved when the Doctor clearly says "I went too far. I became the Hybrid." And he fulfills the prophecy - he risks all to heal his own hearts and he stands in the ruins of Gallifrey when he has his conversation with Me. Some also have issue with it not being about Time lords, but that would have missed the entire point of the whole series and not wrapped up the series threads and themes, plus Time Lords are not entertaining, never have been - pompous, stuck in their ways, political, introspective, unchanging and dull, dull dull.
It’s such an easy get out though, she only has to die at some point in the future like every single other person. So she’s not dead. It’s a typical Moffat death cop out
@@obiwankenobi687 She is dead- we saw her die on Trap Street- and the chances of her outrunning the Time Lords for any great length of time in the meantime is hugely unlikely, even the Doctor only managed that for a few years after he stole the TARDIS. And the episode makes it clear Clara is not determined to avoid it, just not rush to it either. On the more general topic of Moffat and death its way better than under RTD - Rose happy, alive with a replacement Doctor, Martha and MIckey, happy alive and married, Jackie alive and happy and got a new version of her dead husband to be with, Donna, memory wiped but happy, alive and married, everyone in the RTD era gets a happy ending. By comparison under Moffat - Amy and Rory, dead, Clara, dead, Danny, dead, River Song, dead. I honestly have never understood the critism that Moffat doesnt kill off characters when he kills them all off, especially in comparison to RTD who gives everyone a happy (and often ridiculously so with replacement dead loved ones) endings and gets no complaints about it.
@@pettytyrant2720 Amy and Rory happy in the past, Clara can avoid it for as long as she wants, Riversong not dead either, Bill also not dead Then there are the characters he kills and brings back to life multiple times RTD didn’t kill people only to have them cheat death that’s why it isn’t comparable. Moffat actively kills people multiple times for no reason and repeatedly brings them back to life or gives them cop out cheat endings. There was plenty of death and tragedy in the RTD era, Moffats choice to kill nobody and undo deaths from the most iconic and dangerous villains like Daleks and cybermen, making them essentially weak and pointless is the difference. Then the various, countless cheat deaths that are repeatedly undone
@@obiwankenobi687 Amy and Rory might have been happy in the past, but its where they lived out their days and died before being buried in a graveyard in NewYork that we see - however you cut it they are still dead. Clara is unlikely to live long seeing as th e universe doesnt end and we see her die, we witness it happening nothing changes that she is still very dead by the Raven on Trap Street, River likiwise is very dead by the end, we see her final moments as a living being in the Library episode and as a data ghost of the original with 11 in Name of the Doctor. Shei s very dead. Bill I have not mentioned as I dont know how far ahead they have watched so avoiding spoilers. As to RTD not cheating death- you are joking surely? whats 10's fake regen and human incarnation just to so Rose can have a happy ending if not a cop out? Not to mention bringing Rose back which was also a copout after her big emotional farewell. Same with her Dad- killed in Fathers Day only to be brought back to give a happy ending to Rose and Jackie. Captain Jack the biggest of all- killed by Daleks brought back by magic basically to live unkillable forever. RTD is very guilty of reversing many of the big suposedly emotional departures of his era.
@@pettytyrant2720 Yeh because eventually people die. All of moffats companions die because people get old and die. That happens to Amy and Rory, river in her library, Clara can stay alive for as long as she likes as can another. There is no reason at all why Clara couldn’t come back for multiple multiple seasons, she could stay in the show forever as long as she eventually goes back to trap street and dies. There’s no tragedy to any of them. Or finality as they’re all so vaguely done as he can’t bring himself to mill someone or give someone a horrible ending. Even Amy and Rory can come back. River can visit them with her vortex Manipulator any time she wants. Even the doctor can if he doesn’t use the tardis He could go and live out the rest of their days with them. Same with Clara, same with river, which he does. Same with bill. There’s no tragedy to any of them
I think ME is suppose to be the representation of how the Doctor now remembers Clara. ME due to her mix of human physiology and immortality can't remember her past to a certain point and eventually all she does becomes stories to her. Clara is now a story instead of a memory for the Doctor. Well to quote his direct predecessor "We're all stories in the end, just make it a good one".
And of course, it's the same diner the 11th doctor, Amy, Rory and River hung out in when he invited them to witness his death at the hands of the astronaut.
Lots of interesting stuff in this finale. I have mixed opinions on it overall but the performances from Jenna and Peter are so good, and nice to have kinda the reverse of Donna's memory loss done to the Doctor instead
This two-part reaction is a little confusing. At the end of the first part, you included part of your after-show discussion, and since I didn't realize there was a second part, I thought you'd completely skipped the end of the episode. Perhaps you don't do that next time?
Nice to have you back. There were a lot of mixed views on this finale. One criticism is that the return of Gallifrey ended up being all about Clara more than the Timelords. I think htat's true but I still think that, overall, it is a pretty good episode. However, I felt it was better when Clara died.
