Doctor Who Reaction - "The Girl Who Waited" - Matt Smith ▶ September Schedule ◀ Monday - Dark Wednesday - Doctor Who Friday - FMAB House of the Dragon PATREON - / filmbuff INSTAGRAM - / imsardar TWITTER - / _filmbuff_
*6x11 is blocked by the BBC at the moment* *6x10 Full Length and 6x11 Early Access/Full Length* available on Patreon ▶ September Schedule ◀ Monday - Dark Wednesday - Doctor Who Friday - FMAB House of the Dragon *PATREON* - www.patreon.com/FILMBuFF *TWITTER* - twitter.com/_FILMBuFF_ *INSTAGRAM* - instagram.com/imsardar
"you're turning me into you" said in an insult to the Doctor is just... Such a powerful line from Rory. So intense and emotional and even dark... Such a good heartbreaking line
This is probably one of the cruelest things Matt Smith's Doctor has done. Amy always finds herself waiting for the Doctor which is why it's so tragic to slam the door on her face as she's running to freedom. It's understandable but it's so brutal.
It always hits me again at the end where she asks to see earth because you completely forget that not only is she torn away and isolated from Rory and the Doctor for 40 years but she’s taken from her home. She just wants to see home before she dies
The “Rory’s the most beautiful man I’ve ever met,” bit changed my life when I first heard it at 14 years old lol. I thought it was the most romantic thing I had ever heard. And you know what? Still holds up! This episode is an amazing tribute to Rory and Amy’s relationship. Definitely deserves praise. It’s interesting what you said about the score. I was really into band/orchestra when I was in my Doctor Who phase, and I particularly loved the variation of Amy and Rory’s theme in this episode. I’d have to rewatch to see if I also feel like it was misplaced sometimes though. Interesting analysis.
This episode was written by Tom MacRae whose previous contribution to Doctor Who was way back in series 2 with The Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel. This was a a vast improvement.
This could in some fashion be seen as slightly spoilery, as I don't know how far ahead if any you are in your watching but if it is you may wish to return after series end. I feel this episode may be very misunderstood, particularly the ending, its all about River Song, but it may take time to explain. You have to go back to the fact Amy and the Rory charged the Doctor with a task - to find their baby and bring her back. This is further emphasised in a very important minisode shown in the series gap after Good Man, where Amy calls the Doctor begging him to find her baby and bring her home for her, and he stands by wracked with torment and unable to answer her call. So what is the problem with bringing their baby back? He could do it but it would mean the River he knows, and Amy and Rory knows would cease to exist, this is the impossible choice the Ponds have, unfairly, placed on the Doctors shoulder to bear- who lives, baby Melody, or adult River? And its the entire subtext of this episode. Young or Old Amy? Young or old River? When you rewatch the final scenes between Rory and old Amy at the Tardis doors and what the Doctor says it becomes very clear, all you have to do is swap the names out in the script- DOCTOR: There can never be two River's in the Tardis. The paradox is too massive. RORY: You can't leave her. She'll die. DOCTOR: No, she'll never have existed. When we save Melody, River won't have happened. RORY: But she happened. She's there. DOCTOR: Look, we take Melody, we leave River. Only one River in the Tardis. Which one do you want? It's your choice. RORY: This isn't fair. You're turning me into you. DOCTOR: Your choice, Rory. When you swap the names out it becomes obvious. The very burden of choice the Ponds placed on the Doctor, choose which River to save, he now places on Rory in choosing which Amy to save. When Rory says 'It's not fair. You're turning me into you.' He really means it. The Doctor is putting Rory in the exact same position they put him in- as the man who has to make the impossible choice. And its not fair. And nor was it fair of them to ask the Doctor to choose between which version of their Daughter gets to exist. Rory is forced now by the Doctor to make an impossible choice- to find out what he is capable of and where his moral principle will lie. To make his choice. And what choice does Rory make? That he cannot kill old Amy, that he cannot deny her right to exist. He unlocks the door to let her in. He finds out what choice he would make faced with an impossible choice. At episodes end, the look the Doctor gives Rory so often interpreted as 'dark' because he shut old Amy out is in fact in my view not about that at all. When Amy awakens the Doctor says “I'll leave you two alone” because he knows they are going to have a conversation- one in which Amy will ask where the other Amy is and what happened to her- its the last line of the episode in fact, “Where is she?” and Rory is going to have to answer and tell her what happened, and that in the moment of choice he could not deny old Amy her existent or right to life. Rory knows now utterly, having being placed in the position of choice, that he has not the right, nor can he effectively kill the River he and Amy know for their own happiness any more than he could deny old Amy her life. Its against his very nature, and finding that out for himself with the certainty he needs to make that choice and know its the right one, and to convince Amy of such was the whole point of the Doctor forcing him to choose. That is the conversation the Doctor knows they are going to have to have, Rory telling Amy that he cant do it, he cant take their baby back even if possible, and that's what the look is all about. That this conversation and decision between Amy and Rory has to have taken place at some point is clear from a line of dialogue in a later episode which I wont mention here as I don't know how far ahead you are or not, but at this episode end is where they have that discussion and make their choice regarding River.
Brilliant episode, and I was waiting for your take on this one. I have to say, you make me want to go back watch them all after all those years with fresh eyes, so thank you for that! I always read that episode as Demon's Run fire back, and a metaphor and possible consequences of how it was for her to be separated from the men the most important in her life. I remember when i translated the subtitles there were a lot of words with double meanings, and mainly meanings about labour, giving birth and post-partum. I might have read too much into it, and been overthinking it... I still love that reading and keep it in mind until today... food for thoughts
A very good episode. Not one of my favourites but the ending is brilliant. The acting is top notch throughout. I love seeing the Doctor's darker side. He is a man who is able to make BIG decisions. (Hey - he wiped out his entire race!) That said, as he says to Rory at the end, he promised that he would save Amy and he did. Nice reaction as always.
I'm *terribly* late in formulating these comments these days but I did just want to throw in my $2,000 before we're completely finished with S6! 😆 You are right in the sense that in this episode Rory is placed in a very similar situation that the Doctor was regarding River Song but interestingly enough, they both make the opposite, and yet the correct choice. If the Doctor had embarked on rescuing Melody Pond, the scenario that River Song would have faced is *this* scenario that the older Amy so staunchly balks at. Think about how that conversation would have gone had River told the Doctor where to find her child self. "The last X years of my life re-writes and I cease to exist." She never would have had to grow up on the streets of New York, she never would have had to journey all the way across the world to Leadworth to grow up with her parents. She would have just been Melody Williams, a normal little girl with a normal upbringing that certainly would *not* have resulted in the woman River Song became. I mean, setting aside the relationship that River has with the Doctor as a whole side issue even in and of itself (because I highly doubt that the show would do 'daughter of friend, grows up with weird uncle, and then falls in love with him' like Twilight does 😬) there's still a whole host of issues created if the Doctor had returned that little girl. Because, like I said, if he had retrieved Melody, she wouldn't have regenerated on the streets of New York, she wouldn't have gone to Leadworth... Which means that she also wouldn't have been able to make Amy realise that Rory was in love with her in the first place, hence they wouldn't have gotten together, hence she never would have existed in the first place. And there are far more paradoxes that would have manifested around the River Song shaped hole in the universe if that had happened. Generally speaking, temporality prefers to take the path of least resistance, and the Doctor knows that. Furthermore, there was nothing he could have done to undo what the TARDIS herself did to River at the point of her conception. Had he retrieved Melody as an infant, she would have grown up normally (with a weird uncle) and then only been able to spend a scant 6 or 7 decades with her parents in her life before then having the rest of her existence stretch out, empty, before her. (Because the show **wouldn't** do 'falls in love with weird uncle' ... at least I sure HOPE it wouldn't!) So for those reasons above, ceding Melody's fate was the right choice... So why is the right choice different for Amy? Ultimately, fundamentally, because Amy is normal and human really. River Song sacrificed her normal childhood for an augmented lifespan *with* a suitable significant other so she wouldn't be lonely like the Doctor was... which is why the TARDIS created her in the first place... She sacrificed her parents over TIME with her partner. But Amy does the same. She sacrifices her 36 years FOR Rory, so they can be together the same as River and the Doctor are. And that's why it's the same (but different.) Time Lords have extended lifespans and so it would make sense that extended relationships of any sort would be the most fulfilling... And humans are opposite (yet the same) in that a similar lifespan makes more sense for a life partner. Like Rory says, he doesn't care that Amy grew old, he cares that they didn't grow old together. Remember when I said that this show occasionally uses Amy and Rory's story to tell the subtext of the Doctor and River's? Well Rory just learnt what it was like to be the Doctor... And Amy just learnt what it was like to be River. And yeah, it would be nice if they addressed these things more directly, because I think the Ponds just learnt a really hard lesson about what it means to be a time traveller... But then I also really do enjoy the way certain issues and topics are told in subtext in this show. The Ponds and the Songs seem to have this unspoken agreement of "if you don't want to hear stuff you can't handle, don't ask." It's both a good thing for the story (because it makes all of the characters come across as much more deep and complex when we as the audience are not privy to every problem and opinion they have around their circumstances, but it's a bad thing for the characters because then that means that unspoken problems and unanswered questions etc aren't ever addressed, and so fester and ferment. But that's also what then makes the characters truly *understand* what the other's experience is like they've done here, rather than just having it exposé-d out to them in dialogue. And as for the fixed point thing... Fixed points aren't really just what happens when you perceive the future, things *can* be changed even if you have foreknowledge. A fixed point is more like... a paradoxical paradox. Like what River's life basically is (and likely the Doctor's too.)
I don't think the Doctor was manipulating the older Amy in quite the way suggested here. Yes, he manipulated all three of them, but I think he was hoping that events would unfold in a way that any choice would be made for him, whether in favour of the younger Amy or the older Amy, perhaps with one of them dying to save the other.
"Jettison the karaoke bar." Lines like that makes us chuckle, but the fact that he just making up solution in order for them to actually bring Present Amy to thier timeline. Meanwhile, all three of them (and even us) just being dumbfounded and thought that will work even though he already now that it will never work... I love and hate him at the same time, like god damn...
People always trash Amy because she only waits for 36 years and Rory waits for 2000. But it’s the shows fault because Moffat only had Rory wait for 2000 years as a gimmick and didn’t bother to explore how that affects a person. Rory was completely unchanged after it with no character development. Amy however was given development and immense character growth in this episode by a different writer so the dichotomy between the two approaches becomes more jarring. But Amys character growth and personality change is 100% realistic against rorys complete glossed over 2000 year wait. In fact Rory gets more character in this one episode than he does in 2000 years
The waits arent the same. Rory knew how long he had to wait & chose to do it. Amy never knew when, or even if they would come for her. As they say, its the hope that kills you.
@@cutthr0atjake they are definitely compatible, whether he chose it or not, Rory is EXACTLY the same after 2000 years. Amy is completely different after 36.
@@obiwankenobi687 They aren't the same as Rory knew when the end would come. Amy however never knew if it would. Amy also has abandonment issues due to the Doctor. Its no surprise that after 38 years she had given up all hope of rescue.
@@cutthr0atjake but they are though. They’re both left alone. Rory might have known the end was coming but that doesn’t mean 2000 years wouldn’t affect him even slightly at all. That’s no excuse for zero character development the fact he knows he’ll see the doctor and Amy again some day. I wasn’t saying the situations are exactly the same. I was saying people trash on Amy for being so changed in 36 years and angry when Rory had to wait longer for her. They call her ungrateful. But she’s only acting like a realistic human would, whereas under moffat, Rory doesn’t react like a realistic human thats lived a lonely 2000 year life span.
This was the episode where both Karen and Arthur won me over as performers. I loved their characters, but I could not really get into them performance wise until I saw this episode.
You know what's coming but you don't see how it will happen. It's not only very well written but the execution is perfect. It's set up as silly but it's actually very profound.
Such a good episode. I’m so glad you enjoyed it as much as I do! There’s a surprising amount of people that don’t like it. Great to have you back! Though you look tired, I hope you get some rest soon. I know you’re in the middle of a move so things will be chaotic. But yes, good to have you back ☺️
I love your breakdown of thoughts at the end, I’m not going to hint or say anything about what’s coming up on the show. But rewatching these reactions (And as someone with autism) I never picked up on how manipulative 11 is in some situations. I believe we are all manipulative in some ways, and one of the things I couldn’t appreciate when it aired (because of how it was handled, I think they should have “explained” it and I have my own core-fan-theory.) But back in 2018 I had to go through a thing that’s big-vast and complicated. No person in the world is as angry “This” happened than me. I’m not bitter, I’m angry with certain individuals who *Have the power* to do good in the world. Directly not do good. Rewatching series 1 and seeing how quickly the doctor reacts to the dalek, is how quickly (And arguably how a part of me wants to react to those people.) Calling them out on everything they did wrong. I’m no killer though, but I’m sure as hell I’d let them sit in the cage. I believe that’s what makes a person dangerous when they look at a scene and go. Actually no, I’ll leave you to be in this position. I might be misremembering but it’s from one of the master audio series from big finish, where he’s told people he’s the doctor, acted all nice and charming and when they downplay themselves because he’s a time lord, he knows and could build better with less he encourages them by saying you used your own knowledge and resources and understanding to build this. I might know better but I couldn’t do it this way. In the same story the tardis (The masters tardis*) is damaged and he’s trying to retrieve it. I interpreted it as the console has energy running over it and can’t be removed but needs to. So he outright encourages someone who found out he’s the master, not the doctor. Who previously said I get why you’d hide your name and just say your the doctor. I get your looking for your Tardis. But you’ve helped us which makes you a good man. Same person, he lets touch the console and obsorb this energy which I think was some time energy which rapidly aged the molecular structure into dust. It’s occurred to me this is actually the first time? The doctor has really played with someone else’s life banking they would do precisely what he wanted to then ‘erase’ them from existence. But giving Rory the straight choice. I can’t remember if he fully explained what would happen… but telling him, one or the other. The Tardis wouldn’t be able to handle it. I do remember thinking, Rory would leave after this episode, kind of like how Mickey left, I do remember at the time a lot of people were comparing Amy to Rose, and Rory to Mickey. At least around where I lived
great episode. honestly probably my favourite episode of the whole show not written by moffat with respect to the great midnight and the doctor's wife and a couple more yet to come.
