They did try this from the first in JY. The thing is, with LL damage being randomly dispersed, JY is actually better at dispatching Single Target mobs. Sadly LL being the first iteration of summoned being, got way too many restriction to make it useful. Argenti Ultimate is what JY LLord supposed to be to warrant him as erudition, but what we got is a unit that is basically half Hunt Half Erudition.
the problem is the dmg. Lunae does almost the same dmg as argenti but every single turn. and E2 Lunae breaks the game so hard he is staying for years.(I already saved 50k to pull lunae E1 and E2 since is more worth it that getting 2 new characters.)
@@lucaskp16 E2 Lunae is pretty much a budget E6 it's not even comparable to the rest of the DPS cast. Every TCers and guide makers compare all limited 5 star on their base E0S0 levels to make it F2P friendly.
well he well still insanely struggle against single target. his ult takes ludicrous amounts of energy and his talent only really gives him energy against hordes of enemies. itll take way too long to get his ult in ST scenarios (like 4-5 turns)
one crucial bit about Argenti's kit that you didn't really bring up is that his energy from his talent is based on how many enemies he hits, which in turn makes it so his lv1 ult can be used way more than twice as often as his 180 energy ult in full AoE situations since he just keeps refunding its cost. He's got some serious potential if you keep a close eye on how many enemies there are and how much energy you generate with each attack, which in turn makes him a character who (imo) favors clean and precise rotations even moreso than he favors strict team comps like the energy-funnel hypercarry comp you showcased.
Erudition and Hunt were fine, and honestly so was Destruction. Its just that Jingliu is ridiculously overtuned and she happens to be in the Destruction path. She is the outlier not the norm. The rest of the cast are pretty well balanced between each other. Argenti is here to prove Erudition is king of AoE though.
@@trevorbrooks7816 i dont think he outranks both JY and Argenti ngl. Prolly equal, can be better or worse but even then not by a large margin. Blade is strong but not JL level broken
Yes and no actually Yes we need a battle that give big advantage to erudition No because there are characters thay can do same job and some even doing it better, meaning we need a stronger erudition, I don't even need to say it
Maybe like the enemies that immune to the damage as long as they have 4 summons? And the summons are gonna be revived again when they are not killed at the same time?
@@fashlimakarim6757 imo that simply will be bad Its basically almost impossible even with erudition, although you can change it thay the enemy will be immune to weakness whenever his followers still alive
That would be Yanqing boss fight And no, he's not helping. Raw strength already could kill him Or maybe the enemy would get 50% stats bonus if he has followers@@israyantidien4287
Pure Fiction is coming in 1.6, a permanent game mode that's like MoC but is built around hordes of enemies so we are finally getting battles with more mobs and groups :D
I mean, Clara is supposed to be classified as a damage dealer as well, it’s just her play style forces her to double as the tank for maximum damage output
@@drm726 the "readily available" part disqualifies clara, not her dps status. though you could argue that, with the standard banner selector, she's more available than a limited character but [shrug]
@@lukehoffman9742 and by virtue of being a limited 5* character argenti isn't readily available either since not everyone will roll on his banner and even if you do roll unless youre on a guaranteed you still might not get him the fact vars called a limited character "readily available" is hilarious
@@Merchuyley i'm not trying to argue that vars is correct in calling argenti readily available, i was just trying to clarify to the person i replied to that OP wasn't dissing clara's dps status
The comparison to Eula is actually so true. Where she does her burst and uses her skills to charge up her burst. He uses his skills before to charge up his burst
Yeah, and you can also activate his burst early (90 cost) like ult cancel when you switch the character in Eula’s case. And all of his damage is locked behind the burst… I hope he won’t end up at the bottom with Eula
I don't think erudition was ever UNviable. It's just that the last 2 destruction units are so insane they're hardly comparable to anyone else. DHIL, and especially Jingliu, should not be as strong as they are. Tbh, I feel like Hunt is in the worst position doing only single target attacks. Seele only stays good because she has that reset mechanic.
I think Argenti is a serviceable addition to the main cast, him being Physical and good at coverage (though I'd argue that Jing Yuan too can be viable in single target scenarios thanks to the follow-up attack). I don't think I will pull for him now, since I need to get Silver Wolf, but maybe I'll try my luck later or on his rerun.
Erudition wasn’t valuable in the beginning cuz of how many elites were in the first phases of the game now they’re even better than before due to the amount of summoning and mobs currently so erudition is even better now why are people saying they aren’t great? When the hunt is kinda luckluster way more than erudition
I mean we have 5 hunt characters and only 3 of them are 5-stars and Topaz is a combo piece character. And Seele isn’t bad even if she’s overshadowed. The 4-star Hunt characters aren’t great, but that’s not surprising. It definitely can be argued that Jingliu and Dan Heng IL are simply overtuned, and it has nothing to do with them being destruction characters, because it literally doesn’t, if she was the hunt instead she would likely be just as good. From a design standpoint sure the damage paths shouldn’t be interchangeable with each other if they want to justify their existence, but really that has nothing to do with inherent qualities of the paths. Dan Heng IL mimics the design of Qingque, who is plan and simple an erudition character, and she’s actually very good too. All it’d take is a character that’s overtunned in some way of the hunt path, and then “hunt characters would be good.”
I definitely don't NEED him; that's for sure. I've got Kafka, Jing Yuan, and IL Dan Heng. HuoHuo, Fu Xuan, and Topaz round out my supports. But I might end up considering it just because he's Physical. I have Clara, but Clara's just so situational at times and Argenti is a lot more straight forward.
I just have to flex a bit because I can't believe what happened to me. I got huohuo and welt in the same ten pull. After that, and some 80 pulls on argentis banner I got him TWICE IN ONE TEN PULL F2p btw
Tbh the worst part about erudition are the light cones, half of them feel either too niche or too strict to be able to use effectively (which is why I see Argenti and JY light cones as really good for actually being more universal) Also doesn't help how destruction basically got three 5 star units back to back so all content was geared towards them for the most part with the prom king and queen of DPS being so overtuned they make almost every character look like a joke Pretty sure if people keep using IL and JL as benchmarks for future DPS they'll just be consistently disappointed and doompost X character to shit because they can't ctrl + alt + dlt in one cycle tops with minimum effort, if people have made Himeko work in MOC I don't see why anyone else can't
Yeah, and a character’s path has nothing to with a damage character’s viability besides their accessible LC’s I mean, Qingqiu is actually very strong and she’s just 4-star quantum Dan Heng IL that’s technically erudition.
I have gin-young & double dragon Daniel hung and don’t regret pulling for honky Duluc at all, he’s a top tier lawnmower when it comes to burning through waves and hes very glamorous doing it.
I believe he’s not a must pull now but the way Star Rail is going with swarm disaster or that ghost event. I feel like in the near future he will begin to shine
I wanted him since I met him, what a cutie, what a beauty also minor nice thing with his 180 energy ult is the 4 star LC that boosts damage based on max energy. (Also another comment mentioned how his energy gain is based on how many enemies get hit)
What do you mean you don't need another DPS? Don't you love farming relics and traces for a month just to maybe have a good build? I swear, the RNG layered grind alone makes me stay away from pulling more DPSes.
Since when Erudition ever was _"unviable"_ ??? My JY has been clearing MoC 10 with ease even before the new follow-up relic set (which I still don't have yet anyway)
Sometimes I wonder if Vars genuinely believes what he writes as his videos' titles. They're not too much of click-bait, but the premises and assumptions are often just ...weird. Like does he play any of these characters or just compile the general opinions from different forums and discussions? Either way, keep at it and enjoy the game. :) I myself take this video as a proof even Vars admits QQ has ascended above Erudition, Hunt and Destruction even seeing he didn't mention her once lmao. QQ e6 is doing just fine clearing MoC 10 full stars from the very beginning to this day.
No Argenti for me. With all the DPS units I've been getting, I'm shifting focus to support units. My list includes Silver Wolf (whch I just recently pulled for an won the 50/50!) and Fu Xuan. I *might* get Dr. Ratio, but meh, who knows?
Do you know what's fun? Using argenti in the golden calyx with the five red and blue flies. He gains energy from killing them, but also every time new ones appear, so you can spam his burst 6 times, one shotting each stage just by pressing his burst and using no other actions. This is next level in the martial exhibition event that fills his burst to max, which incidentally means the 180 max every time he weakness breaks, like on the trash summon mobs that the bosses call.
To be honest I like him so much, maybe I am a bit biased because he is a handsome knight BUT!! His damage output is hella satisfying when done right with team comps. I like playing him
As an E6 Qingque main, ever since the "Destruction Meta" came out, the Erudition class begun to rise whereas units like Yanqing and Welt had fell off a cliff cus they are better at killing eilte bosses that don't spawn trash mobs on the side. That'swhy even Seele survived due to her resurgence mechanic and Topaz is more of a support/debuffer with good single target as her debuff. The two recently introduced relic sets made sure that units like Kafka DoT teams, Jing Yuan, Himeko, Topaz etc. would nake them even better than pure hunt units with no AoE and other gimmicks that solves the AoE problem. Ofc, Jingliu and Dan Heng IL are so overtuned that they are ahead of everyone else and the two faces of the destruction meta but even then, I feel like the Hunt is really lacking compared to destruction and erudition
The hunt has 5 characters, 2 of them are 4-stars so what can we really expect from them, (not to say DH and Susheng aren’t usable, they are, especially with E’s) and both Seele and Topaz are strong, even if Seele is overshadowed, and Topaz is good because of her support for follow-up characters. But like lets be real, the issue is that Dan Heng IL and Jingliu are overtuned, it’s not that Hunt is a particularly bad path. Like people don’t really use Hook and Arlan.
I have 5 accounts (just to get free pulls on to test out units, I only really play actively on whatever account has the most recent new unit) Of course I pulled Argenti on the 1 account that doesnt have Tingyun...
pulled him somewhat on accident (was at, like, 25 pity on a 50/50 lol) but he’s so pretty he could do less damage than natasha and i’d still play him lmao
Imma see if I can get Silver Wolf. I got Jingliu, Seele, and Huohuo by winning the 50/50, so maybe I can keep the streak going. Edit: I got Silver Wolf and I like her a lot.
I pull for the very attractive men characters, so I had to pull for him. I got him early and while trying to get Hanya I got his E1 at 30 pulls. I gotta build this man.
I pulled him and immediately benched him because I just wanted Hanya and I already have Jing Yuan and Clara so he is role overlap I do not need. He is very similar to Jing Yuan.
I will say something people may not agree with, erudition was fine, the early game was just full of solo bosses in moc with little to no trash mobs, the problem is that destruction got 3 very good units that just outrank both hunt and erudition, if Blade, IL and Jingliu were toned down a bit or they were more "high risk - high reward" erudition would still have a place. I do believe that Himeko's multipliers should have been a bit higher. Edit: Just rolled for Hanya and after 40 roll(65 pity) I got both her and Argenti... I am not mad, I'm just dissatisfied and disappointed... no I'm mad as well. Why do I always get the 5 star guys when I roll for 4 star waifus... this is a curse. Well, 3 extra tickets closer to special summon Broniya. Hope everyone who rolled for him got lucky.
My only question for the thumbnail is What exactly is Argenti ,,Saving euridition” from? The path is meant of clearing hordes of goons, seemingly mainly in daily grinding Every euridition so far does that no problem, faster than all hunts and destruction too For elite/boss enemy units I take appropriate paths of hunt or destruction
The claim would be that they're being saved from only being good in farming content but frankly erudition as a whole has been outperforming hunt in moc for like 4 patches now so even that would be suspect.
@@justunnam3dThat mentality is valid due to how limited resources we have, and the sheer amount of rng needed to get a unit going. People will probably just build 1 DPS for each halves of the MoC and then build their support, which leaves less resources to build other DPS Also I just don't like the argument of "erudition units are good for farming" because farming is such a trivial matter that you're gonna put on auto anyway, using any unit. If anything it's not that erudition is bad (I've 30 stars with Jing Yuan all the time), it's just destruction is too broken. The problematic path is destruction, not erudition
@@dr.stonksakahelth5857 that mentality valid for lazy people, but they enforce as if its the only viable way to play, i have build every dps/lifeline/support i wanted to use and and still working on the rest cause wtf else am i going to use the trailblaze power for? And even with auto fight i want it to be done as fast as possible so i can do whatever else, or i actually play the game instead
@@justunnam3d Tbh the multiple paths of DPS system is kind of screwed by design. If a fight had a single target with a massive HP pool for hunt, then erudition wouldn't be able to clear it. If a fight has constant adds, then hunt will suffer. Destruction is flexible enough for both. The hunt/erudition characters who are rated highly tend to veer more towards destruction anyways, like how JY and Argenti will focus into less targets or how Seele has turn economy to deal with adds. In a game where you have finite resources for pulling characters, having an adaptable character makes a lot more sense than someone who is really good at one thing. That's the key here. I'm still behind on building some "niche" 5* characters that I pulled (like Himeko) because I was focusing on optimizing my two "generalistic" teams. And it's clearly better for me to have 8 characters with maxed-out traces, than 16 characters half-built, since those 8 characters will enable me to clear all events, MOC, and whatever else the game throws at me with ease. Of course, if someone prefers to have multiple characters not completely maxed so they can play with different team comps, that's their choice and I respect that
Tried to save Hanya after loosing 50/50 for Huohuo and now I got Argenti in 30 pulls despite I have clara built and my healer are near non-existent with lots of light cones and even I got Dan Heng built after I loose Jingliu to Yanqing at 79th pull, my account feels like a busted heap of imbalanced piss and turd now Not even my deliberately built Kafka nor the spooked Topaz are compatible with Argenti synergy and still no Hanya, great Hoyoverse, if I don't get Ruan Mei, then off to hang the noose now XDDD
I hate that Ruan Mei is already being touted as a powercreep characters. Why pull for anything when you have to wait for the next support powercreep? Argenti was being touted as Midgenti as well. Just sucks. That being said, I need another DPS and don't want him (and don't have HootHoot)... but am stuck waiting for more hyped up supports.
@@Crispymantis123 that's a good setup if you like him. but also u just spent all ur gems on huo huo and he's not necessary as a dps (however im pulling for him because he def hit me with his technique, i am dazed :,)
I'm gonna Skip him. As he Stands. He's Ulitamately a Sidestep/SideGrade to DHIL and Jingliu. He has the Best Damage against 5 enemies and he's Dhil Jingliu Damage+ against Aoe Enemies.
Dhil and jingliu are anamolies. If u look at other 5 star limited dps chars, they are all fairly equal in strength: seele , jingyuan with new relic set, blade , kafka, topaz support abilities, argenti, dr ratio eventually
I used his trial again today andhe can deal 200k dmg with just buff of Tingyun(Skill and Ult) i used his Max stack Ultimate and it deals that dmg bro is literally a savior of Erudition when i found the massive and he can deal like 30k+ in single target in that one Ult and he's Energy is nit hard to get(if you have many enemies that is which is useful against many bosses in SU and also useful against the World boss? I forgot what they're called)
I have jing yuan so i dont need another erudition. Sure when we get more enemies that spawn allies and have phys weakness he will be good but I really cant help but see argenti as slightly upgraded Jing Yuan in a different element. I would even argue Jing Yuan's element is more favorable since he shares typing with Ting yun in teams for when I want to apply electric weakness with silverwolf. Overall not a bad unit and a respectable husbando but I think he is balanced compared to the op destruction gang at the moment given our content pre pure fiction.
Truth is you can do better with clara with less investment, It'll save you 3 of the best supports for the other team, She'll even tank for you and she's a standard way more accesible unit. He definitely does a lot of damage per screenshot tho and thats fun in its own right.
Erudition is not a struggling path. Prydwen currently rates Jing Yuan and Qingque higher than Blade and Kafka, and both of the former clear MOC in fewer cycles at the moment. Theorycrafters have been calling Jing Yuan underrated and saying people just don't want to put in the mental effort to learn him since soon after he came out. I don't know what it is about your coverage of Genshin and HSR compared to your League videos, but with all due respect, they are SO much worse. You consistently contradict theorycrafters and speedrun data with takes that sound like they came straight off the front page of the official Genshin subreddit. Maybe if you did what you promised months ago and actually consulted credible sources for your videos, they wouldn't be filled with so much outright misinformation, but as a day 1 Genshin player who spends a lot of time in TC spaces, it's really frustrating to see a youtuber with a large audience giving newer players information that has been verifiably wrong for a long time according to people who actually know what they're doing. Edit: after the Hanya/Argenti update Jing Yuan has been moved back down to A and is at the same tier as Blade, Kafka, and Argenti. DHIL has been moved down to S from S+ as well. Qingque is still in S, meaning that in S and S+ there are two destruction units, one hunt unit, and one erudition unit. In other words, erudition units are still represented as much as or more than other DPS paths AFTER they collectively had a bad patch tier wise. And last patch, erudition was among the best paths in the game.
Not to really contradict what you are saying, but Qingque is Destruction in all but name. She does Destruction Blast Damage (1 main target plus both surrounding targets) and she even has a risk based playstyle like the other Destructions. There is nothing Erudition about her playstyle, except she has a slightly lower Aggro modifier because of it.
@@rowanmales3430 There is no rule that says that destruction is the only role that can deal blast damage. Serval's skill does blast damage, for example. So does Welt's. It's also kind of unreasonable to call her randomized mechanic "risk." She has a very high chance of using less SP than DHIL for a fully enhanced attack, and her E6 gives one back. For how much damage she does, you could see it as her building up to her damage by spending skill points immediately, while someone like Jing Yuan does it over multiple turns.
@@pankace3296 Dude, the thing that "categorises" Destruction is two things; blast attack and some sort of risk. Trying to say QQ isn't risk based is hilarious. It's a gacha playstyle. Literally. ALL other characters with high SP have guarenteed effect. Like, calling her Gacha playstyle a risk-based (or, positively, "luck"-based) playstyle is in no way controversial. Most characters have mild elements of other paths as part of their kits, but it's pretty obvious that QQs main part of her kit is the Destruction parts for QQ. Even her enhanced state, which her entire thing is about, is still a Blast attack. The signature thing Erudition have in common is that the majority of their playstyle is about AoE attack damage, all of them except QQ. Even Serval, the starter unit and weakest erudition, who uses blast attacks too, has her gameplay and damage focused on AoE DoT application through her Ult. Anyway, my original point was that it's hard to hype Erudition, when the generally ranked strongest one is the Erudition who plays LEAST like her path.
@@rowanmales3430 My guy she has like a 22% chance of not getting her max enhanced attack in optimal situations, that's not risk based. Sure there's an illusion of risk there, but at the end of the day she's very consistent. If she wasn't, she wouldn't be ranked so highly. On that note, DHIL has zero HP drain mechanics, zero chance involved in his kit, and zero self-debuffs. He is completely risk free. Is he not a Destruction now? Jing Yuan's damage is so backloaded that your team is guaranteed to take damage, and he needs a shielder to keep his damage from being blocked by stuns. Surely he would be Destruction rather than DHIL? Why are Hook and Trailblazer Destruction, if TB has no risk and Hook's only intrinsic HP mechanic is healing herself? So the only Destruction theme is blast damage, even though there are Destructions who do global damage an Eruditions who do blast? Do you see how arbitrary this is? And it's not "obvious" that her main parts of her kit are Destruction, you just noticed a pattern and made an arbitrary decision that she was more Destruction than Erudition. There are literally 6 Erudition characters total. Two of them are Herta and Serval. There literally aren't enough Erudition characters to say that Erudition's gimmick is global (not just blast) damage. At the end of the day, you can't knock Erudition because an Erudition who happens to be strong LOOKS more like a Destruction TO YOU.
@@pankace3296 Why TF are you looking at Optimal Situations as your baseline as whether a character like QQ is risk based or not lol. That is the equivalent of saying "these characters aren't REALLY risk based because if you put them in a team designed around them with a specific rotation their risks are substantially reduced and mostly managed". Just... No... and DHIL, especially with his E2 is known as literally the STRONGEST character in the game, precisely because his "risk" of being the most skill hungry character character in the game isn't a strong enough downside with he supports we have. Why does he seem like a similar-point-problem-without-the-rng as QQ? Because he is basically a 5-Star upgraded QQ. And its too OP. Which is why Destruction needs to have less easily mitigated risks. Like QQ. Jing Yuan playstyle isn't risk based lol. He just backloads rather than front loads most of his damage. The fact if he is CC'd his Lightning Lord doesn't work is representative of the fact that CC'd characters can't attack. And Lightning Lord is literally manifested by him not independent. Numby by contrast is an independent entity, which is why it doesn't matter if Topaz is CC'd. I know nothing about Hook since I've not played her nor watched people, but Physical Trailblazer is your first beginner character and so they went and made her anti-Destruction lol, since her technique heals up the team a bit. That whole character was designed when it was assumed you wouldn't have ANY Abundance yet and they needed solidity. No, it is not my "opinion" that the primary difference between the damage paths is single target damage (Hunt), blast damage (Destruction), AoE damage (Erudition). That is literally the focus of their respective paths, and was outright told to us in the tutorial when it explained Paths.
I am in dire need of a physical dps so he is a must pull plus i have all the characters need for his team so thats a bonus too, but if the songstress is coming after him im gonna have to let him go if i lose my 50/50 😭
I have a stacked jingyuan. So its nothing rrally to save. Instead, u shud be saying... Who can beat destruction meta? Who will surpass IL/JL. Cuz everyone is inferior when compared to them. They blew everyone out of the water.