Does French Drain Work with Fabric? Watch This Before You Install - PVC / Corrugated Pipe 

King County is hilly and the folks there never understood ground drainage. They will put basements on hillsides and not understand why they flood. It's because the rain flows on the surface and just under it but above the hardpan soil which is only a couple feet below grade and nearly entirely impervious. A basement creates a bathtub even at a high elevation. There's a similar problem with these trenches they struggle with. The linear depression in the hardpan forms an underground stream. They should either try to restore the imperviousness to the previous level or just give the stream an outlet to a body of water. Sounds like instead, they are mixed up and switching back and forth.

@@zane43 And let's mention all the houses in flood plains that have basements, like, say, the entire Kent Valley, and the flatlands of Puyallup as just a couple examples. My Landlord is a Licensed Contractor, and made himself a new road on his farm. He basically cut a ditch 3' deep to make this "Driveway." Now he's driving across wet clay and complaining about the mess. And he's too cheap to buy any crushed rock to put on it. Our Glacial Till is a trip.

The entire Puget Sound Basin is a mess when it comes to ground water control - and so are the codes that stipulate how to deal with it. The counties here will issue a building permit on virtually any slope, just to increase the property taxes.

french works for a few years. Then it's full of grass roots and blocked. Changing my to PVC with all precautions.

If u believe u can do it u probably can.... or a similar qoute.. weather u believe u can do it or believe u cant your right

that's TRUE! i did see one video put up by AppleGate that had a certain type of soil (clay maybe) that did not allow water to sink beyond 3 inches below the surface. as they dug it up, it was dry soil below 3 inches which makes the case for a catch basin in addition to french drain.

Yeah, this was not super obvious in the demo. Thx!

All good- thanks for your input

This is merely my opinion, and it won't matter to you now, but maybe someone else reads this: I don't use socks around the pipes because I would rather have dirt migrate into the pipe where water will carry it away or you can snake it. Even though the gravel is "washed," there is still plenty of sediment on it. I do think filter fabric lining the trench is mandatory for longevity. And ALWAYS install a clean out at the top!

@@Keifsanderson Good reply. My French drain has three catch basins, also.

@@SeanBaker God bless, man. Hope you get many years use out of yours. I think much depends on the nature of the soil. My new place has great, sandy soil, but there is no elevation to make a drain work. Unless of course I want to deal with an outdoor sump pump. There is no risk of the house flooding, and the flooding disappears in less than 24 hours, so I think this time around I'm just going to let nature do it's thing. The first couple torrential downpours, where I could have paddled a canoe around the yard, were a bit stressful, but I've been assured by all my neighbors that even the worst hurricane in the neighborhood (Sally) didn't flood the houses here out. Anyways....cheers, and have a great weekend.

By using a sock on just the pipe that is the smallest surface area compared to placing the fabric between the drain rock and the clay. A smaller surface area would clog up faster with any silt materials from the clay. So in theory the gravel should remain functional longer with the filter fabric on the outside of the gravel. The sock only protects the drain pipe and not the gravel. Once the gravel clogs the drain pipe is pretty useless. I’m planning on placing the appropriate clay soil geotextile fabric between the gravel and soil to protect the gravel/drain rock from clogging up. I’m thinking of using the 1-1/2” rounded rock (with minimum fines) because that has bigger spaces between the rocks for better drainage. Bigger spaces will drain faster and it rains 75”/year here in Crescent City, CA so the water volume is huge in a 4” rainstorm. Locals have described 7” of rain in a single storm! I’ll run the gravel to the surface to also catch ground run-off and place catch basins every 30’ or so to enhance surface water collection but to importantly double as clean outs to deal with clogs. I read that 1 catch basin is equivalent to 40’ of French drain. I worry about corrugated pipe getting torn up with a big snake’s cutter head; ie catching on the ridges and the corrugated pipes are all relatively thin. So I plan to invest in the thick walled and smooth schedule 40 PVC. I looked at the high octane corrugated pipe but the shipping to the west coast was 3x the cost of the pipe! $500 to ship a 100’ coil is outrageous!

I just did one with a barito wrap and fabric.

$140.00 for 250' of 4" dig it up and fix it.

Is it just me…. What happened? 😅

I feel like we went to commercials or something wth

I dont doubt what you say is true but eventually the surrounding soil will percolate into the spaces between the gravel and clog the drain. Geotextile keeps most of that soil out so the drain will last much longer; thats why its done.

@@hazmat5749 the soil just clogs the fabric instead

@@supernom The surface area of the textile is much greater than the surface area of the pipe, so it can keep working even if partially clogged. Civil Engineers use Geotex all the time, and for good reason.

Fabric enclosing the pipe at the bottom of the fabric with 14'' or so inches of 1.5'' clean cobble, all wrapped in the fabric, - then the silt, clay, and other small grain soil goes/flows through the fabric with rainfall events and flows through the french drain, and on the outside of the fabric there will be larger grit soil particles, which are beneficial to the drain system@@supernom

I'm a 70 yr old woman and I can't tell which way is correct. I've watched many of both these and the French Drain Man's and they are both so different. I wonder if it has to do with climate.

@@fewferfev Or sponsors.

How’s you clean the mud out?

Probably whatever allows you to maintain a minimum 1% slope (required for wster to drain) all the way to the outlet. If you're asking about how much material should be between the surface of the ground and the top of the pipe I'm not sure

We dig according to the frost line,or if installed at footer.we go just below the depth of the footer,so the water flows at a lower level Than the top of footer,Works good for us,we use lots of gravel,im talking several tons around a 2200 square foot home,

Did it handle the water at one time? Maybe the pipe needs to be cleaned out? If it never worked well due to volume then I'd just disconnect from your common line and run a line just for your house. Add a yard drain if you need it.

Downspout drains COMMONLY clog where downspout meets corrugated pipe. The grit from the shingles piles up there in no time. Corrugated is crap

put drain rock over the pipe, enclosed with fabric, so that none of the soil flows into the system. I'd use a layer of sand over the fabric then another layer of fabric before adding soil, as a buffer for the roots.

Another important standard is to NOT use perforated pipe once you are out of the area needing drainage. I have seen multiple times where they used perforated pipe the whole way and all it did was transfer groundwater to another location underground and causing slips.

HDPE or double wall corrugated hdpe would be even better.

Depends on the application…. I have PVC carry water (from downspouts) about 6-8’ from house to corrugated, perforated drainage pipe buried in planting beds and then to street/storm drain.

PVC pipe will be better in transporting water the corrugated pipe. But does that matter? If it is not over capacity and it is just a question how how long it takes to transport away the water, does it matter if the water after a rain is drained in 1 versus 2 hours? Solip PVC pipe transports water faster because it has smooth internals. The drawback is that you can bend PVC pipe, that's what corrugated pipe is designed for. Both exist in perforated and no perforated variants. So better is a question of what you prioritized and the intended paths of the pipe. If it is in a straight line versus if there is lots of bend will change what is better or at least simplest and cheapest to install.

I think you will find, that Henry French, who was the one who came up with the idea, actually describes using a 'tile pipe' in the drain...

Did you use any wrapping material?

@@fewferfev Yes wrapped in fabric for drains. Had plenty and nowhere to use else.

The pins are sold in bags in the same spot that you buy the pipe.

In my very limited experience, it appears that PVC will flow MUCH better and give longer life. Granted, it isn't flexible like the corrugated, but if you spend the time/labor doing it the first time with PVC, you'll not likely need to do it again. Keep checking RU-vid for comparisons.

@@rusosure7 Thanks I appreciate that.

Corrugated pipe will clog easier and be harder to clear out than PVC. It will also collapse. Every downspout corrugated drain my builder installed lasted about 4 years before I had to dig them up. The PVC I replaced it with has been trouble free for 20 years. Everything that goes down the gutters flushes right out. PVC costs more, but not as much as having someone try to unclog a corrugated pipe--if they can.

@@barrygrant2907 I have no experience with corrugated, so thank you for sharing. I've seen enough videos where corrugated will simply hold water & debris that I'll never use it.

The real testing is letting these systems go for a year and then looking at their output quantity as well as quality of water coming out. The type of gravel you use could also greatly affect the effectiveness of these systems.

@@daveharness70 yea, that would is a must as well..or at least throughout the four seasons... Yea totally agree

@@BobDevV yea, I'm in exactly the same boat... I did it as per spec but after years feel straight is better..they claim the ridges create turbulence that creates a self cleaning effect but I agree that if it does, it is outweighed by sediment accumulation trashing up the line.. And to your very point water stayn in those spaces is bad all the way around.. I think its just cheaper and they tryn to justify it with excuses..

Coconut wrapped pipes to the rescue.

That's what the fabric is for. To filter that out so it doesn't get into the perforations. Of course. What prevents the fabric from clogging up is the next question 😉

@@DannyBowen25 Not the next question. It was the analogy used in my 1st question - copy/paste "(just like a vacuum cleaner bag or filter getting blocked up)"

@@takleteck7008 oh, I see. I missed the word mesh. My bad

Water builds up, drains in from the top, flows out. It will work, but you're allowing more water to settle.

You are watching too many false videos! We wrote the book on Rainwater Drainage! Over 60 million views and helping so many people every day! Don’t be fooled by some random guy that does 8 jobs a year and puts down everyone that installs drains!! Thanks for your comment

@@appledrains With all due respect, you didn't answer the question. Can you lay the pipe on the fabric? If the answer is no, then please state why not. I'd like to know because this is a project I will be doing in the very near future and I want to make sure I do it right the first time. Thanks.

I’m pretty sure if you watch my videos you will get your answer! Thanks

Not sure the video answers this specifically. If you put the drain on top of fabric the water at the base can only go through the very small areas of fabric next to the pipe holes at the pipe base and tiny soil particles will quickly block these fabric areas , so then only the holes higher up the pipe circumference can take water that has gone through the much larger areas of fabric and through the large volume of stone. Putting stone under the pipe will hold some water there but it does not matter as beneath the pipe will be full of water if it is soil, sand or anything else.

​​​@@ColinCarFanYou're absolutely right their video does not touch on why the gravel below the pipe is important. I'll tell you why as the guy from Apple drains, here, is too proud to admit that they don't in the video. Basically, the stone gravel isn't permeable and this allows the water to rise up relatively free of soil particles thus aiding the movement and flow of water into and along the drainpipes interior channel.

Terminate into a gravel pit, and mark with a paver in case you need to clean it out.

That's not recommended. Most say gutters go to solid pipe to daylight or basin. French drain is only ground water.

Your biggest cons are leaves from your gutters, and percolating water at the edge of your house. You can put in filters or rain barrels to resolve the leaf issue, then make sure the pipes are not perforated right next to your house. My system has no problem catching gutter water and moving it to my catch basin which keeps my koi pond topped off. No basement flooding since the install.

Many folks run two pipes in one trench for that scenario. But the downspout pipe has to be solid - you really don't want to be introducing a roof-worth of water into ground that already has issues. Plus as others have said you don't want roof-debris in your french-drain-pipe if you can avoid it.

The same

@@appledrains so, is there a difference which one I want to place behind my retaining wall? Or If one is more preferable than the other one? Thank you

​@@andriybond5221 Different manufacturers will vary slightly. No real difference between them. Use what ever is available in your area.

Use a sump pump

4 or 6 feet is best

IBC totes are the key to rainwater harvesting. They are cheap and easy to use. Bit of an eyesore, but they can be buried if you aren't afraid to dig really big holes. Tie them together with PVC.

A sock over the pipe will eventually clog up and significantly reduce the amount of water that seeps into the pipe through the slits/holes, which reduces the effectiveness of the system. That's why he is not recommending using a sock, but rather lining the trench with a geo-textile fabric.

Yes, but you need to run it to a sump pump. Preferably two basins opposite each other. If the grading isn't level, locate the sump basin at the lowest grade.

The fabric allows water to enter but prevents and/or limits soil and fines from entering into the stone and pipe which would quickly plug up the drain.

According to this video, the perforated PVC pipe moves water faster. The holes are only at the bottom of the pipe because as the water fills in the trench under the pipe, the water level in the trench rises. Once the water level hits the holes on the bottom of the pipe, the water will enter the pipe and the pipe will carry the water away (via the central bottom section of the pipe, between the two holes). Water rises from the bottom of the trench - hence why the holes are at the bottom of the pipe.

Hi .. I think you should install gutters and downspouts with drain from downspout out to street or storm.. but if you cannot do that, this system would work to help collect the water on the yard

@@appledrains You are the best, I like your videos, thank you!

Hi thinks you

Something without holes in it, get the water away as fast as possible and pvc's Mannings Number is about as slick as it gets.

Put a catch basin in the middle of where the flood is, have solid pipe running from it to a discharge area with a pop up emitter. Make sure your slope is down hill, because water runs down hill, if you don’t have the slope to do so you will need to use a sump pump.

Scrape away topsoil where water is building up and set aside for gardening. Dig a pond, and mound that dirt up as a hill twice the area of your trailer. Park the trailer on your new hill. Grade the property to drain away from your home. Dig a drain system around your home and feed it to drain into the pond. Dig a pit at the lowest edge of your property and fill with gravel. You can set a simple solar pump in the gravel pit to top off your pond daily.

Cut the joists then sister a new section of the joist back in (watch a video or 5 on that). Ideally, put temporary supports under both sides. Assuming it is dirt and if the ground is not wet you can make an upside down wide T so the brace doesn't dig into the ground. Alternatively, brace the joists perpendicular (four total). That is how I would do it. I'm a DIYer and have no professional training so ultimately I'm going to say you should probably hire a professional.

Straw decomposes really fast though, right?

@@anthonyelledge7475 Left on the surface yes but can last decades when deprived of oxidation and even when decomposed creates a path for water transmission.

@@Thephilipcartmelexperience If you put straw around a drain and in a ditch with water, it wont decompose?

@@anthonyelledge7475 Trust me. It works. They use straw to transmit water in highway construction. It was used on the TransCanada highway going through the swampland in Burnaby BC. It leaves behind a permanent pathway.

Great idea and I absolutely believe it will too. I think I'm going to try it with my French drain too that I'm planning to install very soon. Thanks for the suggestion. 👍

Sure!

Thanks for answering! The caveat is I would have to cut a hole in the side of the main one to run the shorter one into it. I suppose with a connector

You may have been misinformed 👍

The video was just a demonstration and not actual install, so they used scrap fabric

Demonstration... demonstration... demonstration...🙋

I think there are holes on the underside of the PVC. I would guess if it sat flush with the ground the ground / fabric, it would block it.

Gravel helps to transmit water better, and during installation it is better to overdig, then fill in with gravel to set the right slope.

In time roots, dirt, bugs will block the holes.

you'll probably need to makeshift a filter. There's catch basins that come built with them to keep leaves and large debris like rocks out of the pipe.

Put some gravel around the grates until grass grows.

Thank you both for the suggestions! Our system is working beautifully! Just added to it yesterday and so proud of ourselves for running over 200 ft of corrugated pipe and 8 catch basins along the edge of our property! We actually tied it in to the main drain properly, too.🎉🎉 Chuck truly helped us save thousands! Cost us quite a but in sweat equity being that our soil is hard clay! Nevertheless, with prayer, we did it‼️

No

@@appledrainswhat is the purpose for the fabric then? Thanks!

@@greadore I suggest you Stop watching the Moron in Michigan. He has no idea what he talking about.. but fabric is not needed unless your in a sandy soil. I would use StaGreen. Available at Lowe’s

SCHEDULE 40 not the pipe to use in RAINWATER DRAINAGE SYSTEMS. This pipe is used in Sewer pipes. Regular #3000 PVC or corrugated pipe are both great material and will easily last many years before the pipe needs cleaned. Thanks for your comment

If the water is frozen why does it matter?

Was you drunk when you asked that ?

His own earlier videos show pipe on dirt then gravel..

I have a friend who is an engineer and his sites they never put gravel down first. Why would you? It just holds the water below and stops it from getting in the pipe

@@AlexSilis IDK because when I did my first drain I lined the drain with fabric then a layer of gravel, then the pipe, more gravel and burritoed the drain and it works fine. If any dirt gets into the drain and dirt will the dirt is going to smash between the pipe and fabric and clog. The pipe is less likely to clog with dirt when the pipe sits on the gravel.

@@AlexSilis IDK because when I did my first drain I lined the drain with fabric then a layer of gravel, then the pipe, more gravel and burritoed the drain and it works fine. If any dirt gets into the drain and dirt will the dirt is going to smash between the pipe and fabric and clog. The pipe is less likely to clog with dirt when the pipe sits on the gravel.

😅eeeeeede we😊