Does God Desire for ALL to be SAVED? Calvinism's Inconsistency 

"Limited atonement" is by far the most horrifying tenet of Calvinism. One of the five *pillars* of their entire theology is the *literal* assertion that God is *not* all-loving. He only loves a certain group of people whom He chose in eternity past. Everyone else can go to hell. Literally. And I *grew up* with this, believing I was *not* one of the chosen. Even the thought of *being* chosen, while most of my loved ones were not, was still too great a heartache to bear. I withdrew into myself and lost interest in social interaction, and I am now very socially anxious as a result. I do not hate Calvinists. I do not even dislike them. Most of them, at least. I think they are brothers and sisters in Christ. I just wish they would be willing to think their philosophy through to its logical conclusion, and how it affects people who believe, all the way to the marrow of their bones, that they are doomed to hell without any possibility of salvation.

Amen Calvinism messed me up. I believe it comes with learned helplessness towards souls being saved and hardened hearts. Before that I would weep and God did many miracles. He wants them saved. Im sad that I fell for it.

What bothers me about a lot of Calvinist teachers is that they are unwilling to accept the simple straight forward interpretation (it means what it says) in regards to verses that don't fit their doctrinal points. Instead they dance around to explain away the straight forward interpretation anyone would have if they were not being instructed otherwise.

What amazed me when talking with a Calvinist was that they said the Greek didnt say "everyone" in 1 Timothy 2: 4 and 1 Timothy 4: 10. I looked at every English translation there is and they all say "all people", "all men", "everyone", etc... If that is what the Greek says then why doesnt a single English translation agree with their interpretation?

If total depravity is true, then how were any of the Jews able to believe in Christ before his resurrection. John 7:39 says the Holy Spirit had not yet been given because he had not yet been glorified. John 14:17, 16:7 speak of the same thing. Then in john 20:22 Jesus breathed on the disciples and said receive the Holy Ghost. This means they were all unregenerate up until this point. Why would Jesus say to Nathanael (an unregenerate, child of wrath) "an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no guile." Peter responds to Christ, "get away from me Lord, for I am a sinful man!" That sounds like repentance!! The list goes on and on. And why did God have to blind some of the Jews so that "seeing they would not see and hearing they would not hear lest they turn from their sins and I heal them" (John 12, Mat 13, Rom 11). If total depravity were true God would have to do absolutely nothing to prevent them from turning to Christ to be healed. It seems to me the faithful remnant, those that were already Gods, were given to the son. The rest were blinded to receive judgment in 70 AD. John the Baptist came to turn the hearts of the people to the Lord. He was their last opportunity. Jesus said things like.... (Praying to the Father) THINE they were, thou gavest them me. J 17:6 Those that are of God hear God's words J 8 Those that are of the Truth, they hear my voice J 18 (Caiaphas speaking) he (Jesus) should gather together in one the CHILDREN OF GOD which were scattered abroad J 11 Therefore whosoever has been taught of God and has LEARNED, THEY come to me J 6. Contrast with Jeremiah 32:33. I rose up early teaching you, but you would not hearken unto instruction. (Peter speaking) I see God is no respecter of persons, for in all nations, whosoever FEARETH HIM and WORKETH RIGHTEOUSNESS is accepted of Him. Act 10 Lydia was a WORSHIPPER of GOD and He opened her heart up to the thing of Paul Ac 16 Men, Brethren, Stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you that FEARETH GOD, to you is this message of salvation sent. Act 13 Them that doeth evil, hateth the light neither cometh to the light lest his deeds should be reproved, but THEM THAT DOETH TRUTH, they come to the light that they may prove that their works have been wrought in God. J 3 Jesus came to gather the wheat into His garner and burn the chaff with unquenchable fire. John came to turn the chaff into wheat. This was all predetermined, predestined, foreordained. Malachi 3:16 to the end of the book. Please read it for yourself and also Isaiah 65:15 to the end of the chapter. There is more than what I have written. Last verse. Psalm 25:14 The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him, and He will show them His covenant.

according to scripture, YES

This was helpful in my way of trying to understand the Christian God

Thanks Leighton

Thank you for your encouragement it makes me feel better

Amen

Great commentary

I LOVE this subject. It quickly separates the "Thinkers' from the non Thinkers". The reasonable from the unreasonable. Each persons paradigm of God dictates His "opinion" concerning heaven and hell who's going and who's not. I think a very good place to start is to ask Yourself a few very simple questions. How much SIN will God allow to enter Heaven And How Many people do You Know who have stopped sinning? Once You face the TRUTH about Those simple little things THEN you will be on the path to seeing WHY God desires ALL to be Saved and is also VERY able to see His Desires fulfilled. Why would anyone believe that God is not able and willing that ALL be saved? But ALL have sinned,so that means ALL are unfit. And that's a simple FACT.So?

Ephesians 1:4 Is a very simple statement Paul made while in prison in Rome. In it, he is describing God's relationship with the church. (According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.) It should be patently clear here that the verse is saying God has chosen the church before the foundation of the world, not the individual. Calvinism has tried to push this notion of God choosing certain people to be saved and others have no hope for years. When does it become obvious something is wrong with this doctrine especially in the face of having to constantly defend it. 2 Peter 3:9 Tells us(us meaning Christians, the church, the redeemed, those who have repented) It's not God's will that any should perish. Calvinism says it IS God's will that certain individuals should perish. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

God desires that all will be saved but he FOREKNOWS, because he lives outside of time he see's the beginning from the end even into human hearts. "the lord knows those who are his...." "anyone who listens to us is from God anyone who does not listen to us is Not from God..." Saved people are treasures hidden in a field waiting to be discovered.

Great video.

I would like to place verses side by side that support both stands. No man can come to the Me unless the Father draws him to Me and I WILL raise him up at the last day. So everyone who comes to Jesus was drawn and will be saved. Yet, God does not want anybody to perish. I don't think either side can completely account for it all.

What do you do when you have a family member who says that God choose them and didn’t choose you

the epistles were written to the church(es). so the promises are to those who believe. and Matthew does say the children. as a teacher you should know these things.

Where is the exegesis? This is not in anyway refuting Calvinism.

One thing for CERTAIN.If God wanted us ALL to GET IT.We would ALL GET IT. And I feel pretty sure NO ONE TOTALLY GETS IT. So I HAVE to believe that's EXACT:Y how GOD wants it.

Leighton,Thank you for this thoughtful response.Question: Would you let me know if you still have the video of you discussing the work of Bishop Tom Wright?? Thank you for your timely response,Sir!

Key words to not to reject well Calvinism reject these words the disprove Calvinism. Here they are Whosoever, ALL, ALL MEN, WHOLE WORLD, FREE GIFT, there's more.Luke 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not RECEIVE the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein. Luke 18:17Lets look at the word receive.Definition of receive received ; receivingtransitive verb 1 : to come into possession of : acquire •receive a giftSo the word receive means to come into possession of. So people have a free chose to REVEIVE a gift or NOT REVEIVE a gift.A gift is something some one receives and Jesus Christ is the best Gift there ever will be though out time.Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN unto JUSTIFICATION of life. Rom 5:18 WHOSOEVER: Means anyone any person. Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that WHOSOEVER shall call on the name of the Lord shall be SAVED. Acts 2:21 Whosoever does not understand that whosoever means ANYONE or ANY PERSON, or ANY LIVING SOUL. Is a (BABE in Christ not in need of strong meat but of need of milk) (Heb 5:12-14 K.J.V) The most known verse that even most unbeliever have heard or known of. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 I dont think John Calvin understood what WHOSOEVER meant. If he real knew what the meaning of WHOSOEVER or ALL MEN, or other words that includes ALL MEN kind; there would be no Calvinism. So Calvinism is here because of John Calvin's lack of understanding of the words in the bible that mean EVERYONE , or ALL MEN kind. (Calvinism is a man made doctrine named after John Calvin which is a a man, Calvinism is false, false doctrine.) Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mark 7:7 Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Col 2:22

As a local suit salesman used to say , turn on the green light the man wants a blue suit

To say that God desires all men to be saved in the sense that it is their free will, man-made decision through the blood of Christ falls short of asking what Christ truly accomplished. If you say God is too weak to interfere with man’s salvation, you say Jesus died only to make people SAVABLE and not to directly save them. In turn that means men are dependent on themselves to choose God that he MIGHT be able to save them. Not having completely saved them by his action of dying for them alone.

I got told good could wish.. Very different.

Satan wants people to not be saved. The god of Calvinism wants some people to not be saved. Therefore Satan is the god of Calvinism!

SINNERS TAKE HEED LAY HOLD OF ETERNAL LIFE, GOD IS SOON TO COME! Isa 13:9 - Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. Isa 13:10 - For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. Isa 13:11 - And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. Mal 4:1 - For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. Mal 4:2 - But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. Mal 4:3 - And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. Rev 20:11 - And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 - And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 - And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

It's obvious through the Bible that God always chose people for his purpose and that specific people, so desire and reality are two different things, just like for us in real life, we desire many things, which aren't realistic.

those verses such as ezekial were written to the OT church.

i believe in the intent is a free offer (see Revelation 22). but God does not work to keep them from Christ. He just leaves them alone

John Owen asked long ago: Did Christ die for all the sins of all people? Then no one would be in hell (lake of fire) or did he die for some of the sins of all people? Then no one will be saved. Thus, the only alternative is Christ died for all the sins of some people. Is lack of faith sinful?

does it make sense that anyone can fall in heaven is no one safe i never heard such crazy insanity

Repent or turn from other gods to the one true God ..

if god wanted t save us then why would he put so many contradictions in the bale and so much confusion dont god say he is not the author of confusion another contradiction

Amen!

What is wrong with j white

FATHER AND SON SALVATION John 13:18 "I (Jesus) am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. John 6:44 "For no one can come to me (Jesus) unless the Father who sent me draws them to me. John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. John 6:37 -39 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. Ephesians 1:5 God (The Father) decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ (The Son). This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone (the Father gave to the son) to perish, but everyone (the Father gave to the son) to come to repentance. People were Calvinist and believed in election and leave the truth were never saved (given to the son by the father) to begin with (were never of us). John 6:65 Then he said, "That is why I said that people can't come to me unless the Father gives them to me."From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.But you (who were given to the son Elect)have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.

I must except the clear teachings of Jesus. Jesus called out the false teachers for who they truly were! Jesus cannot lie! Jesus said that they were not His sheep and they were of their father the devil! Jesus came to divide the wheat from the tares! Not unite! Peter completely understood the parable of the wheat and the tares. 2 Peter 2:12 But these as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things they understand not, and shall utterly perish in their own corruption! Any True Bible teacher must first be taught the principles of the Doctrine Of Christ. Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call His name JESUS; for He shall save "His People ", from their sins. Jesus taught the reconciliation of All Things. By Him, By Him I say, to reconcile All Things Unto Himself, whether they be Things on earth or Things in heaven. It is the doctrine of Christ that Paul uses to bring "US The Church ", unto the unity of the faith, in whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named! This is the most beautiful illustration of Christ building His Church, brought forth in the finished work of Christ. Predestination and election are both inseparable from the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery of the Gospel! 2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God preadventure (whether or whether not, perhaps if),God should grant them repentance to the "acknowledging of The Truth ", and that they may recover themselves from the snare of the devil, who were taken captive by him and his will.

Did anyone of you out there ask for the sins of Adam? It was giving and passed down to you as a free gift. Now you are trying to say Christ gift has conditions put on it????From my reading of the K.J.B. we are ALL born into sin. So what you are saying is Adams sin has more power than the cross of Jesus. Psalm 51/5 5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. INIQUITY= Absence of, or deviation from, just dealing; lack of rectitude or uprightness; gross injustice; unrighteousness; wickedness; as, the iniquity of bribery; the iniquity of an unjust judge.Till the world from his perfection fell Into all filth and foul iniquity.

It depends on what is meant by "desire." God desires all people to be saved in the sense that God commands everyone to believe in Jesus. God still commands everyone to believe in Jesus even though He did not choose to save everyone.

bible i mean

If God was only dealing with the Nation of Israel for thousands of years and not other nations, that pretty much negates what you claim. God is choosing who is exposed to his word as well as who has a relationship with Him. By being exclusive to Israel and choosing the time and place, he is excluding others. Also, people born on other continents and areas of the earth never had any part of the gospel and the plan of salvation. That is the inconsistency. Also, if you think everyone deserves a fair shake at salvation, tell me why? Does any sinner, an enemy of God deserve special treatment? No, we deserve the wages of our sin, judgement in Hell. Sadly that is the reality of the human race. God could throw all of us in Hell and he would be perfectly righteous in doing it. Thankfully God has obligated himself to save a people for himself. The call of the gospel goes out into the world, but sadly, due to our depraved condition only those predestinated to become saved will respond to it.

Does God desire the salvation of the reprobate? Answer--NO.

I can't stand j white so arrogant

Whomever the so-called Calvinist you mentioned (David Platt? Plath?) who says that God absolutely wants every individual person to be saved, I can say this as a truth, either David hasn't a clue as to what he's talking about or you took what he said out of context. If God desired for every individual on the planet and throughout history to be saved, He would've provided the means to that end. Namely, He would have caused them to be born under circumstances where they would not only come into contact with the Gospel (which we all know that historically, and even now geographically and politically, this is not the case) and He would've ensured that their hearts were prepared for not only the hearing but of the believing of the Gospel. But He doesn't. And this is what we see in both OT and NT. God has never sought to save every single individual human being on the planet and throughout history. Never. Are you going to suggest that God is not providentially responsible for where, when, and under what conditions people are born, live, and die? When we're told in the Scriptures that God desires the salvation of "all people", it is inescapably meaning "people from every tribe, tongue, and nation", not every single individual person. If God DESIRED it to be so, then God would GET what He wanted, just as any king living on the planet gets what he desires. But God isn't merely some sinful despot who has no control over absolutely all his subjects, as well as the elements and providential events. But God does! There is nothing outside His sovereign control. God is GOD, the sovereign Creator and Ruler of His own creation. He decrees the end from the beginning and works ALL THINGS for His own glory, and causes ALL THINGS to work together for the good of .... those who are CALLED according to His PURPOSE. "For those whom He foreknew, these He predestined; and those whom He predestined, these He called; and those whom He called, these He justified; and those whom He justified, these He glorified". EVERYONE who is glorified on the Last Day is EVERYONE who was justified. EVERYONE who is justified is EVERYONE who was called. EVERYONE who is called is EVERYONE who was predestined. EVERYONE sho is predestined is EVERYONE who was known. Oops! How can that be? Doesn't God know everyone? Indeed He does, but this creates a severe problem with the Scriptures then, because if everyone whom God knows ends up being glorified, then we're stuck with UNIVERSALISM, which we all know is not a valid option for a Bible-believing Christian (even though there are professing Christians who think they are believing the Scriptures and espousing such heresy at the same time). But we who do believe the Scriptures KNOW that there are no contradictions, and no mistakes in the Doctrines of the Scriptures. Therefore the "those" in the Romans 9 verse (quoted above), and the "EVERYONE" in the reversed order, and the "all men" cannot possibly mean "every single human being on the planet and throughout history". And neither does "all" or "all men" or "all people", etc., mean such a thing. VERY RARELY in fact does "all" include every single individual human being without exception. It's not every person without exception, but every person without distinction. God calls men, women, and children from every walk of life, throughout history. He calls to Himself a people from every tribe, tongue, and nation. And that is what God DESIRES and it's what God receives. God does not fail in His plans. Never. Ever. There will be not a single person lost to Christ for whom He lived, suffered, died, and rose again. The efforts of the Holy Spirit NEVER fail. The Word of God NEVER returns to Him void, but accomplishes ALL that He intended.