Does Lionel Messi really need to win a World Cup to be considered the GOAT? | ESPN FC 

Ok the debate ends... Messi is indeed the G.O.A.T now..

champion of the world ☝️🇦🇷🏆

So we gonna act like messi didnt carry argentina to the last world cup?

It's wonderful to watch this video at 2:45 AM on 31st December, 2022 after Lionel Messi won the FIFA World Cup on 18th December, beating France in the final just about two weeks ago. Also, last night we lost Pele, who was 82 years old. Just a couple of years back, we also lost Diego Maradona, who was 60 years old. It seems so odd that at the time of this video, both Pele and Maradona were alive, the world had not yet been hit by COVID 19 and Messi had not yet won anything with Argentina. The only regret for football fans is that Maradona could not watch his beloved Argentina win the World Cup as well as the Copa America, which Messi's Argentina won in 2021 beating Brazil at the Maracana. Let this comment be a timestamp for future generations of people who get this video recommended by RU-vid. "Time and tide wait for none".

Skaka will be remembered for not calling Messi the goat, that's his identity now lol..

Shaka logic is really flawed. One) Yes, Messi has not dominated a World Cup tournament, however he was Argentina best player, by far, there was no comparison to any player on that team other than Mascherano. That being said the Copa America 2016, Messi had 5 goals and 4 Assist, thats darn close to Maradona WC86' of 5 goals and 5 Assists. Not saying CA and WC are on the same level, but to say Messi has not lit up a International Tournament is a false statement. Two) Its stupid to say that Muller is better than Messi just cause he has a WC. Muller is no where near the level Messi is seen. Lets take a player who is considered an all-time great, Ronaldinho. Ronaldinho has won everything there is to win on a individual and collective level. He won the WC, be a key part in the team. However, subjectively, to me Ronaldinho is the most joyful, entertaining and most beautiful player to watch. Objectively, which has more weight, Messi has been far superior player than Ronaldinho ever was. Messi is ruled for over a decade, no other player has done that. Not Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Zidane, Platini, Beckenbaur, maybe Di Stefano. Ronaldinho was once the best player for like 2 years, so this is far more comparable since both have been considered the best in their time. My point is that stats, individual award and collective trophy dont determine is a player is the best, its the eye test. It sounds a bit crazy but there is a clear difference when it comes to being "Great" and being the "Best". Maradona may or may not be greater than Messi, but in terms of being the best which the basis of the ability on the field, no one has played the game better than Lionel Messi. Even when I said stats, personal and team trophies should NOT constitute where a player is, they just add more to Messi's name.

"You can't compare players of different eras." .... but let me compare Messi to Maradonna for my main point...

5:53 The only guy that makes any sense.

Shaka forgot the fact that Messi led Argentina to World Cup finals

He won player of the tournament in 2014 and he didn't even win it.

He has already proven he’s the best of all time. He has won it all except a World Cup which he almost did with a national team that struggled. Messi has been more consistent than any other player. What he can do on the pitch is unparalleled especially by poaching players that depend on strong teams to win.

now he is the GOAT.

Because messi is the greatest player of all time that's why.

These pundits are ridiculous 😂😂😂. What Ronaldo did with Sweden was similar to what Messi did that game... No knowledge whatsoever... Ridiculous. Messi is the GOAT even nowadays Barcelona are carried by him. People will realise how good he is when he retires

Shaka: Against a team that’s ranked 35th in the world Dude, that’s still a good team considering there’s more than 200 teams

Giroud won the world cup with France. GOAT Shaka? 😂

Black dude was not trying to listen to any argument. The other guy was saying that Messi still outshines his teammates that were way better than any of maradona or pele ‘s

The Skip Bayless of fútbol

Steve won the debate by just one phrase, " A decade!"

Regardless if he wins a World Cup, we may never see a player like Messi again. He is the 🐐

No lol he carried Argentina..

Messi being compared to pele and Maradona just shows how great he is

World Cup is not even the hardest competition in the world. Both Messi and Cristiano proved to be Gods in the Champions League, which is by far the hardest. These national teams only train together a couple of times every three months, and face subpar teams in the world cup until the final 4.

Shaka : "wait you Can't say that" Stevie: " I have just said it" Shaka : 6:36😂😅🤣

My girlfriend watched Argentina and messi in the world cup. She said is that messi? He's not very impressive as people make him out to be."

No. He's already the GOAT.

Messi is the greatest player ever! 10 years of Incredible football ! Maradona had an Incredible World Cup 86 and a few incredible seasons with Napoli..

Do I have bad memory or was Argentina not in the last world cup final?...I think luck plays a huge part. The dude been trying his best for Argentina

SHAKA,"PELE WON 3 WORLD CUPSSSS." PELE 1ST WC doesn't win GOLDEN BALL.LMFAO PELE 2ND WC: 0 MATCH PLAYED.LMFAOOOO PELE 3RD WC NO GOLDEN BALL,NO GOLDEN BOOT(and he is a goalscoring machine). hahahaha

Just depends on how you label goat, if you count achievements Messi needs the World Cup. But if you are going talent and skill based only Messi is goat.

Shaka should look at this video and look at his stance now 😂😂

Shaka's shtick is really getting old. He is embarrassing himself.

Messi is the greatest of all time. I feel embarrassed putting ronaldo in the same sentence as him. Enough said.

Messi is the goat now!!!

Logic: Pele isnt the GOAT because he had amazing teammates with which he won the WC, so he didnt need to carry them (but he did have the biggest impact) Logic: Messi is the GOAT because his teammates on club level are better than anyone Pele played with (questionable but ok). And among Argentinians he is the best, but his country mates are not good enough to win the WC, but its not Messi's fault he doesnt carry them. Conclusion: You cant have it both ways. And I agree with Shaka.

Now Messi Won the world cup, Messi is the Goat 👑🏅🏆

There was a champions league when pele was playing,it just that pele did not play in Europe, and maradona has only 2 goals in it and never reached to the semi finals Espn really needs to stick with the american sports.

For people that don't know. On the second WC that Pele won, Garincha was MVP of the tournament and Top Scorer.

So when Ronaldo scored a hattrick against Sweden to qualify for 2014 WC. Why wasn't there any GOAT debates???

Messi has performed on the WC stage, he carried them to the final last time

"I don't think we achieve anything by taking merits away from Pele and Maradona in order to make the argument for Lionel Messi." - Ale and Shaka while taking merits away from Messi

Messi is not the greatest of all time! He needs to win the world cup or ANY international trophy to prove that he is the greatest. In Barcelona he was is surrounded by legends of the game like Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, Puyol, etc. He had these guys to fall back on in case he had bad days. Even in the international team, he has amazing talent dybala, Higuain, etc etc the list is endless in the Argentinian team. So Messi will never ever be the best in the world until he wins the world cup even with all this talent at his disposal!.

1.Messi 2. Pele 3. Ronaldo 4. Maradona 5. Ronaldinho

I have been watching a lot of these espn shows lately and i can tell you that the only guys here who makes sense are the host guy , the english old guy and that Gab guy outside the studio

Maradona,Pele, Messi, CR7. Everyone out of those 4 can be CONSIDERED the GOAT. You can never definitely say who is or isnt the best in a TEAM SPORT. Which one u pick is up to you, but saying Messi can't even be considered is ignorant beyond belief.

Oh... So they have those people in soccer too

Messi is the GOAT for his club. Nothing more nothing less

Even if Leo doesn’t win the World Cup he still the best ever of all times.....

This just proves that the most obstinate Messi detractors will die on their hill, no matter what. Shaka has said dozens of times on the broadcast that Messi needs to win a WC trophy to be considered the GOAT. Messi has won it now, but Shaka is yet to change his stance. Clearly, he has no intention to revise his opinion on the matter, nor did he ever have any intention to, either. If that’s not a lack of integrity, I don’t know what is.

I'm sorry. Who is the black guy?

Just to those who say that CR7 never performed on world cup as good as messi let me tell you one thing guys portugal ended up 4th in 2006 and CR7 had one goal. CR7 has scored 7 goals compared to messi's 5. Yeah now you will say that messi made Argentina to the final but look at the squads of Argentina and Portugal. Huge difference Por made one time to semis, two times to round of 16 and one time out of the group stage (while CR7 scored 7) Arg made one time to the final,two times to the quarter finals and one time to the round of 16 (while messi scored 5) and now if you are unbiased you will also agree that Argentina had overall better squad than portugal in the last 4 world cups so that does make CR7 and messi's performance equal in the world cup

"I DONT THINK ANYONE ELSE COULD HAVE DONE THAT" Ronaldo did it 4 years ago against sweden with zlatan Common i think messi is better,but these guys just ignore ronaldo

Cristiano Ronaldo, has done this already . He did it against Sweden in the wcq play off four years ago. So come you are saying no body in this generation has never done this before.

Pelé’s Brazil won the World Cup three times with all of its players playing in the Brazilian league, so it just goes to show how great and filled of the talent the league actually was

Tie breaker? Messi is so far ahead at club level to Maradona, that this doesn’t get close to a tie breaker

This Shaka is so out of the conversation, how has he ended up in a talk show?

No one else from this generation could have done this? Ronaldo did pretty much the same thing against Sweden. He is right that Messi should not be considered the best ever until he wins with his country. Pele, Maradona, C Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldo... None of those guys got a pass on the international stage. Why should Messi?

To be fair Shaka was right, logically to be crowned the best you have to get the greatest accolade, and in Messi's case it's the World Cup Medal it's just a tie breaker in comparison to others and I'm glad he has it now-From a huge Messi fan.

4:41 “Pele won 3 world cups” Since when did WC became a Brazilian league?

For me, Messi is the best. I love to watch him play. And that's it.

So according to him the GOAT is Mustafi

Gab, I salute you. Your argument is truly understandable.

........And he delivered the greatest performance

Steve Nicol hits it on the head, Messi has been at a higher level than anyone else for 10 years, Gabriele Marcotti also gets it right when he says that it's hard to judge someone based on a tournament that comes around every 4 years that consists of just a few games with lots of different factors within that 2 months of the world cup.....

Argentinians only feel that way because Messi went to Barcelona at the beginning. Simple as that.

Gab has earned my respect from this video

He needs to win at least something outside Barcelona

Hello and I am sure everyone knows why I am here

What a load of crock. Just watch him play. Never mind the stats. If you know anything about football, you know Messi is the GOAT hands down, simply because, nobody can do what he does, game after game after game.

It's over right now...

All South American teams are Strong, Powerful and Physical. Ecuador are a tough team to play against. They are one of the most strongest and physical teams in South America. Moreover, the Estadio Olímpico Atahualpa is one the most toughest places in the CONMEBOL. It is located 9,000ft above sea level where there is less oxygen available due to the high altitude. To go a goal behind and then get a hat-trick in supreme fashion, in a must win game, is absolutely incredible!!! His performance is very underrated indeed by Shaka Hislop!!!

This is officialy confims that ESPN FC crew has nothing to do with football giving their stupid "points". You only need eyes and a common sense to know that this guy is the greatest to ever play.

Shaka’s logic is irrelevant... Otherwise iniesta should be greatest in history of football. He won the world cup. Whats raul fault that he wasn’t born in brazil? Ucl is much much harder than world cup.

I will take O Fenômeno in each an every world cup

Neither trophy nor goals makes one the greatest..

Just happy Shaka has been humilated in his lame argument.

Shaka nailed it!

Argentina was a minute from going to penalty shootout vs Germany. Messi is a midfielder although attacking style but is their all time leading scorer. He has to be their best passer and goal scorer, Argentinas strikers hasn't done much to help the team get the cup.

messi has to win world cup to be a legend. world cup is THE top level. its where passion and pride intervenes and you see the real character of a player. it makes and breaks players. Messi is genious , probaly the best of his generation but a legend player is not only about his performance and inspiration and popularity, etc, it is also about success and achievement. and to bring success to your nation is surely the way to elevate you to legendary status. for me personally he has to win the cup, then no one can deny hsi place among the true legends.

watch messi vs iceland they closed his strong foot and he was forced to play short pass or take a quick shot he is indeed limited

barca players won a world cup without messi messi won nothing without barca

he needs this he wants it and he knows this

Messi is one man Argentina's football team is many men. The reason for Argentina winning world cups in the past and failing to win the ones they didn't is simply because of the entire team. To know the GOAT you must watch his individual performances.

being considered a GOAT is about legacy...in 50 years we'll still remember the peles and maradonnas lifting world cups. If messi doesn't lift the trophy like maradonna, he wont leave that same legacy and will most likely be forgotten more easily

Do you know why Messi and Ronaldo can never be called the greatest of all time because both play in the same era N they're always back and fourth one year it's Ronaldo's year and the other year it's Messi's year so that's why I can't say neither of them are the greatest of all time

Yes Pele won 3 world cups & his team was filled with quality players & all those quality players played in Brazil for essentially all their careers so the Brazilian league was very good at the time

If Messi has chosen to play for Spain this discussion would not happen. He stayed loyal to Argentina.

his barca teammates won a euro and a world cup he won nothing without them messi is good but its really the barcelona help that made him shine

That white guy said "Messi's supporting cast is wayyy better than what Pele and Maradona have had." Uh, that just makes Shaka's point. Messi has had a great supporting cast and still can't win a World Cup. Meanwhile, Pele and Maradona have accomplished WAY MORE with LESS on the World Stage. Pele won 3 World Cups.

Messi has ever taken these guys to the world cup finals Messi plays the game at another level

When pele got injured Garrincha carried their squad but he doesnt get credit because of his personal issues

Shaka hislop shut up. Messi doesn’t need to win the World Cup to became the best player of all time. It is a team play but the best player award is an individual honour, not a team play.

Nobody hates on Ronaldo for getting bounced with Portugal in the first round. Messi is being punished because he was born in a country that has history. If he was born in Mexico and was doing the same thing people would not hold this against him, Argentinian and Brazilian born players are held to a different standard for the GOAT. Messi is number 1!!!!!

How can you judge any player on 3 to 7 games played every four years??!! The Champions League and the World Cup are both on the same level. Both tournaments have the all the best players in the world playing in them!! The quality and level of football is the same in the Champions League and the World Cup!! Proving yourself in either tournament shows how good a player really is. Messi has proved himself in the Champions League on numerous occasions. In addition, the biggest prize in every other sport happens every year or two years, whereas in football/soccer, the world cup happens every four years!!!

He played great in WC 2014...

Big Messi Fan here, But Shaka makes a valid point.

I am a Argentina Fan...I consider Messi as best argentina player. Pele is not the G.O.A.T he is the best Country player. Thats it. Messi is the G.O.A.T.

Lionel Messi is the 🐐 There is no debate. What he did throughout his career has never been done before. Messi will be the greatest goalscorer of all time and he isn’t even a striker. He is a playmaker and that says everything about who is the 🐐.

Messi is the Greatest

Gab is woke