Is Lionel Messi the GOAT? Shaka Hislop vigorously defends his position | Champions League 

He hasn't give his answer yet 🤣😅

@@wanfeel144 he has given an answer, he dodged the question and said he didn’t want to answer that question.

Shaka, solute the GOAT please. On top of the World Cup, HE has scored at every stage of the world cups and has contributed 20 goals during World Cup, the highest of all time.

@@GurinderJohal he's a dishonest liar. The worst kind of blabbering fool.

WE ARE HERE!!!!!!!!

Lmaooo for real

well said

Literally. He scored half his "1000+" goals vs. amateurs. Farmers, cooks, toilet cleaners, ..... literally. AND he was never top scorer in any World Cup he won. He had ALWAYS been outscored by a shit load too. Like Gerd Müller's 10 goals vs. Pele's 4. Or like Pele's 1 goal in 2 of the World Cups he won. Literally 1 goal each World Cup. LMAO

It’s an unpopular opinion but I completely agree

His 1000 goals are not even documented.. Probably scored 400-500

Flawed reasoning right there. Shaka stated that messi has consistently under-performed against tougher opposition in the world cup. Hence the reason why he wouldn't put Messi in the 🐐 conversation.

thats NOT what shaka said. he isn't comparing the passengers to the drivers. messi pele maradona r9 cruyff zidane et al were all drivers; giroud kleberson et al are passengers. shaka is comparing drivers who have lead their teams to win it vs those who haven't. its really not rocket science. you guys are just picking out the most ridiculous and convenient rebuttal. shaka even mentioned the names he was comparing. his point is, if you have that ability lead your team, even when you are not favorites. cos at club level, more often than not barcelona are always favorites, but when the games are even like with argentina.......alas. shaka never compared the likes of giroud or just any jabroni who was fortunate to win thanks to being on a team with goat type players, to messi. he NEVER made such comparison. think think

Did Giroud let France win?

@@mainakiungua h

messi got his onw chancesin that final and missed too. People like to give excuses for him. Hes a beast ad best in the world yes but dont give excuse when he flops. Like the last word cup the stupid argentine coach was saying the entire team were making messi look bad. and the funniest thing is that messi himself was not spectacular and even missed penalty in the group stages.

Aahh pls u guys. U blame Argentina's flaws on everybody else but Messi? If he was the greatest of all time, he would have single-handedly made a difference - like Maradona did, like Pele, Ronaldo. No way Messi was better than those

Not aguero, more like higuain.

Messi also missed 2 chances

Messi missed a ton of chances too

@Alan James, I have liked your comment, but the point is we simply cannot endorse this mentality whereby Messi gets lauded when he plays well but never criticised when he plays badly. Just take the last world cup. He did not play well. When that is mentioned, everybody coils into "if it weren't for Messi, Argentina would not have been at the world cup." While that may be true, the point is he didn't have the best tournament - period. Let's say it like it is.

Who tf has accomplished something individualy w/o the Support of a great squard Do you Really believe Messi would have been that succesful if he was playing for fc cologne etc.

ATM TM yes you idiot. He is god

Neymar, until last season, Suarez are in the same team but they can't perform as Messi did. Team is important but individual skill is the foundation of one's success.

Well if he is the GOAT then surely he should be winning games single handedly like maradona did. And dont say that argentina are a shitty team coz theyre not. He should be capable of winning a world cup with that team if he was truly the GOAT. In 2014 they had the most solid defence in the comp, it was actually their attack that was struggling. All it would have taken was a moment of brilliance from messi and they woulda won it. But it just never happened. Sigh...

@@Huss_3 wait what first if Maradona carried argentina like people say then it would have been a case that those other players didn't do their jobs and 8f they won a game it was a case of Maradona being the player to defend and pass to himself and score all the goal if they won it and got to the final don't you think that everyone on the pitch was doing their job and Maradona was doing a little more to get them goals and assists. The world cup is not a competition for one mean teams pof everybody isn't working you will win nothing. Simple and that Argentina team isn't as good as people say having all the attackers has done nothing for them and the defence in the last world cup was actually really bad and you can't deny that. If they wanted to win it they should have brought in a good manager who can get the most out of the players but sadly the last two just couldn't. And in 2014 messi actually played really good but in the final that is the hardest game so you really expect him not to play a team game when he has also relied on his team mates to get that far you don't win the golden ball and not be a good player at least and if higuain the striker had scored the conversation may have been so different

By your own logic Ronaldo is better because he has more goals in UCL and won more UCL's than Messi lol.

Advenco He has more goals but you aren’t evaluating their ability solely on champions league goals

Leirs Deirs so what are you evaluating their ability on? You mentioned UCL, so elaborate on that.

@@advenco344 I wouldn't mind that arguement at all considering messi has 2 years on him, and waaaay more assists aswell, atleast that arguement gives credit to ronnie too

@@advenco344 ronaldo has more goals because he played more games. Messi has a better goal scoring ratio. Who's better now ?

If he wouldve played with Spain instead of Germany

Maradona waz born in argentina n he still won. No one gave Argentina a chance untill they played uruguay in 1986 yet maradona won it unlike messi who despite having better squad didnt manage.

Omar Riyami if Messi played with a better Argentina squad he obviously would’ve won so Maradona’s squad was obviously better than Messi’s can we not think about that?

@@niccofn8895 Argentina's 1986 squad was worse than messi's squad. Problem is that Argentina's squad of 1986 had an exceptional leader n the GOAT, unlike the present squad.

@@omarriyami2923 hahahahahahahahahshahshahshshshshshshhahahahahahahahahah🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

He said WC tho?

@@HAL--gb6uf pendu fan alert! He was just saying who are watching after copa.

@@HAL--gb6uf Pele or Maradona did not win the copa America

@@godwinbernard9568 you gotta be kidding me. I saw the copa finals and Brazil's team had maybe 2 or 3 players. If arg were in euros , I don't think they would have any chance. 😏

@@HAL--gb6uf lol Remember all this copa teams who qualify for wc almost everone goes to quarters and semi s

Wasp this guy is a fool

Because selective memory is sensational medias best weapon.

Well said bro

Yeah singlehandedly with 0 goals in the knockout rounds and completely disappearing in the final lol

@@ElAzul57 Read it again, carefully this time.

He can get a participation trophy but he ain’t getting any World Cup trophy for that.

Neither did Cryuff win it. Individual skill varies a lot than 'Team game'.

@Pedro Guedes do you want to put it in double quotes?

@Pedro Guedes I get it. Are you an octogenarian?

Giroud & Griezman are not 1 of the great players of all time....

@brasileiros Silva are you good. R9 played with Ronaldinho, rivaldo, kaka, and Roberto Carlos. That is too good

Copa is not proper international football anymore

@@wbcs785 LMFAO OMG BRO STOP

@@wbcs785 but nations league is right?😭just face the fact messi is far gone clear as the goat ain't even a debate no more

Not just Messi he can't do it alone, that victory belongs to single one of the argentinians who played in that tournament. And the coach ofcourse, but Messi was a big part of it indeed...

@@wbcs785 Ahem ahem

😱😱😭😭

He stepped up his game on the biggest stage. No goals given in the WC Final! Obviously one of the best defenders to ever play the game.

MMA Sports Master The final he didn’t play in!

No reason to try changing your mind cause Mustafi is better then any player you can name.

Mustafi is the goat not Messi or Ronaldo or anyone from the older generation 😂

Exact, You are Smart.

Haha .amazing but true.

Champions League is way better. WC has more kudos, which makes it bigger than the CL. Quality wise: no comparison.

yeah, lucky, brasil has been lucky pretty throughout the years

If its higher then messi should have no problem then

What has happened in the last month

@@brusselseastside3546 idk he just happened to have won the copa america.

And now World Cup!!😍

@@ArgentineFootballfan1978 why?because he is under maradona's shadow in Argentina?

sohel bashar no because Barcelona and the Spain national team have similar playing styles and he knows more players in the Spain national team because there are a lot of Barcelona players there therefore better chemistry in the team

He is an idiot

Unfortunately Shaka has made his bed and been silly enough to do it on TV in front of millions watching..he has no choice but to lay in it now, he knows he’s wrong but also knows admitting it in front of millions watching will make him look even more stupid..pride has kicked in and face saving is on auto pilot..smh!

@@ArgentineFootballfan1978 What's wrong with playing for Argentina? And if he played for Spain , what about if he played for Ac Milan ? And not Barcelona?

Hahaha

Lol🤣🤣🤣

Shaka is a set up to hate on Messi

He made a shortlist of the best players and the diffrence was winning the world cup

@@MarioGarcia-px8xi yes but his logic is flawed, no other player in history did the things Messi does as an individual player for so long in professional competition. This is why to me Messi is the greatest footballer in history so far.

This is my flaw with Shaka's theory. In a World Cup you play 3 group games, followed by Second Round, Quarters, Semis then a final. That's 7 games in a whole tournament. A tournament that happens every 4 years.

@@MrGlostuber Shaka is just stupid as hell

@@MrGlostuber But It's the WC. The greatest tournament, the most prestigious. If you are the GOAT, you will play the best football you've ever played at the WC. The same way a Maradona would or a Pele. Quit making excuses .

@@ImGonnaGoHomeNow Teams want to play their best every game whether that's for club or country, in the end they're all human and can't always perform. Football is a team game, Messi can't do it all himself, Argentina are a mess, they don't seem to have chemistry.

​@@ImGonnaGoHomeNow this is not magical fairytale land where your best comes out and you become a superhero when needed you spastic. Maradona had a great team that PERFORMED, Pele had a great team that PERFORMED. Stop being a sheep and listening to people saying dona and pele carried their respective teams, that has ALWAYS been utter nonsense. And keep cokehead and the farmer slayer out of the GOAT argument dont disrespect Messi like that

Well if him lifting a international trophy means he is the GOAT then Pele, Maradona, Ronaldo (Portuguese) and many others are GOATS aswell

@@joshuarackal 6 Ballon D'Or 🤔🤔🤔

@@osastech6956 I have a question is Modric better than Xavi and Iniesta cause of his Ballon Dor?

@@joshuarackal exactly This shakakakakka's point doesnt even make sense.

@@joshuarackal That is just 1 ballondor right? We are talking about 6 of em. 6 golden boot as well. A worldcup golden ball too. Thats enough to ne named the goat

both teams were powerhouses, one team had the galaticos (perhaps one of the most stacked and op team) and the other is France (a nation that is among the best footballing countries).Zidane was a play-maker and dribbler but was a weak goal-scorer, thus making him less of a full-rounded player. but still Zidane is amongst the top 5 greatest footballers of all-time

You idiot we are not counting trophies here !!!

@@johnmateo9951 peles team didn't even needed him

@Niranjan Rajesh zizou is the only one who lead his team to a WC FINAL at 36, ur probably 10

@@johnmateo9951 but Argentina is among one of the best national teams in the Rolf an a giant but he was unlucky to not have the squads that Maradona had

Gavin Odem literally. So stupid.

Ik rite such a stupid logic

Argentina has had a better squad line up than Germany and arguably France. Maybe on par with France. The only time Messi(outside of Barcelona) has had to prove his worth and win something, he's flopped. If he carries Barça, he should carry Argentina as well.

Cuthbert Ojong Yep a golden ball in the World Cup on a team that played Macherano as their best cb at 33 was definitely up to par with France and MILES better then a full strength Germany. Smh

@@Cuthbert237 It's a team sport you melt, you try to carry a team and get motivated to play for a country where the entire media shit on you for not carrying a team with the likes of Aguero, Di Maria and Dybala to the World Cup finals every year just because you can do it with a Club that adores you and backs you even on your worst nights. Also the World Cup is a knockout tournament with 1 leg. All it takes is a bad night to derail a career by your logic. Messi's LaLiga success is about being consistently brilliant. Not some luck heavy tournament held once every 4 years. Atleast the Champions League is held once a year so it also is based on consistent brilliance not "one tournament wonder"ing like Gotze did. Pele is great, but I and about more than half of football fans don't agree the World Cup is the most prestigious trophy to be won in football and isn't required to be named the greatest ever.

*1 month

@@adicrossover7744 3 months because 3 world cups. Simple Math.

@@ElPadrino71 but its not 3 world cups every 4 years. And messi has played 4 and not 3

@@adicrossover7744 he's referring to Pele

@@ElPadrino71 By your logic the comment doesnt make sense its not 3 months every 4 years. Its 1 month every 4 years.

😄

And kaka

Exactly

Brazil have had the best international teams

i think Kaka was only on the bench but whatever 4 Ballon Dor Winners thats sick

Kaka played for a few minutes against Costa Rica but other then that, yes he was on the bench throughout that tournament...

A B top scorer for Argentina and won player of the tournament in 2014 as well

He has to play WC till his lifetime to reach the number of goals ronaldo or klose scored in WC. According to your arguments, when Argentina reach Final it's messi carried them and when they get knocked out it's Football is a team game. Really a shitty logic just the shitty fans of course shittiest alien.

@@abdullahalmamun5985 Do you agree that in the world cup, as the team progress, their opponents get better???

2 is not a winner 3 nobody remembers

@@abdullahalmamun5985 Messi was their best player in the 2014 WC, scoring the most goals and being named the player of the tournament and yes that means he carried them because nobody besides him and mascherano had a good tournament, but there's only so much one player can do and that was shown during the final where they failed to win .

And has won a Copa as the tournaments best player hehe

True.. messi is the best..it's just pure bad luck that he has not got the support he has at barca to win the world cup..feel sorry for the man..if Higuain had scored that day...only if.. .Greatest ever player its really sad not to see him win a world cup...

Basically!!! THANK YOU!!!!! Stupid logic. Smh And you play in the world cup every 4 years. League play and champions league is every year.

If messi is great y he doesnt leave barca and play for other teams to prove his greatness. He is worried that he will be good player and will lose the tag of best player

@@arshadmukadam7852....he love football first not money.... and there is a thing called "LOYALTY" which you know nothing about....... Legends like totti stayed in the same club too..... Plus he doesn't need to change club to prove he is the GOAT....his consistency and performance week in and week out is enough...... I could go on and on but you already made up your mind ...so what's the point?

Pau Tonsing Messi even won the player of the tournament that WC

@@pautonsing4129 ✌ yeah right

MIND BLOWN!!!!!

Good analogy never thought of that👏👏

Zidane won 1998 and put France 2006 into the final .... we all know they lose because of the b*** Materazzi

@@lapulga8555 Lol no doubt Zidane is one of the greatest players but he has only himself to blame for losing his cool as a captain.

An also if u compare pele games played for is career to the world. Its less than 1 %. So how can u judge him off world cup alone

Totally agree with you mate. In the sense, I would put Ronaldinho as the best player.

BucketsBasketball winning is what makes it a game.. if there’s no trophies and accolades then it’s just an activity, no one plays football just to play, we want to win while playing.. Messi might be the greatest at what he does on the ball, but the greatest to ever play the GAME, where winning is involved can come down to a lot of players.. For me personally i think it’s Cr7 because of his champions league records which i think is the highest quality in football

@@alidemiri5208 While I agree with you, Messi has won four champions league titles and could tie Ronaldo for 5 this season. So saying Cr7 is the best to play the game has little substance when Messi has almost matched in terms of goals scored and assists and titles won.

Jafrul Islam Messi didn’t even feature in the match day squad when they won in 2006.. he was a young bull and barely played, you had Ronaldinho and eto’o win that champions league.. also Ronaldo has the most goals in ucl finals, semi finals, quarter finals, knockout rounds in general.. the list goes on.. he’s the king of Europe, Messi’s the goat too don’t get me wrong but Ronaldo’s more clutch when it comes to champions league

@@alidemiri5208 Well since we've agreed that Messi is the goat, there is no reason to argue. I'm no Messi fanboy either but seeing the way he plays with the ball is just freakish to say the least. But i do I agree with you in recent times, Ronaldo has been clutch in the CL. Especially since 2014. Take his goals out of Real Madrid's run to the title each year, they would be no where near to it at all. Even Messi in 2015 when Barca won it, it was the contribution of MSN that got them the trophy.

🤣🤣🤣

Mario Gotze isn’t in anyone’s GOAT shortlist tho

@@YoogiNation it is in Shaka by his arguments tho hahaha

adriana g Strawmans argument you know that’s not what he’s saying

@Pappy Tron this kid was 2 years good not great thats all stop it hes not even in the top 500 in the world 🤣

I

That doesn't change the fact that he's GOAT

@@augustinedansoopoku8120 Nah my Goat will never fumble a 3-0 lead in an important semi final after promising your club the trophy and still losing

Agree, does not change the facts, he actually played a good games besides a few mistakes and considering the ball barley went to the attacking side, he cant be the goalkeeper, the defender and a midfielder.

Aye 😂😂😂😂

@Aru Sub I know that I am just stating how stupid they are

They treat football as if it was Tennis. It is a team sport and no matter how good an individual is, all will be for nothing if the collective was not up to par. Lots of big personalities in the game have echoed this same point including Ronaldo and Lionel, but some people never use their brains...Pele had a golden team around him and in fact a lot of old people claim that Garrincha was a better player than Pele. The point is, Pele was surrounded by Champions just like Ronaldo was with the likes of Rivaldo, Ronaldinho..just like Zidane...etc.

U do realise tht maradona won the World Cup with the most average Argentina team ever.Yet messi plays with class players like agureo,dybala,mascherano

It's a mystery. Barca without Messi is Zero. But Argentina with Messi is zero

Alain Fegone idiot they all don’t play as a team. It’s all drama

@@alainfegone639 sadly masche is old now and all the rest players are attacking ones-dybala,agureo,icardi,higuain(somewhat). Without any solid midfield and defense

Well then he still falls way behind Pele because he scored 1000+ goals

Jackson james He played in WC final and A Copa America final. With very talented strikers midfielders etc. He is no GOAT

@@colindesal7936 no he dosent bleacherreport.com/articles/1099349-top-5-things-pele-does-not-want-you-to-know#slide1

@@hopegaming867 except they don't perform that well in Argentina shirt. Also messi does not receive that much passes when he plays with Argentina. Still he remains the top scorer of Argentina and Golden ball winner so .........

@@hopegaming867 dude u didn't get what I was trying to say. I was saying that u should not take trophies as a single players measure. When talking about the GOAT of football, we should consider individual achievements. Not team achievements like trophies.

Tom Wellings exactly my thoughts. Those three world cups that Brazil won, they had a stacked team. Amazing players in every position. Pele just happened to be there. Garrincha played in Pele's time for Brazil as well. And many of the players that played there say he was just as good if not better than Pele. Pele is astronomically overrated.

You talk like you have seen pele play, most of his career wasnt even televised. you cant compare watching clips of pele games to watch players like ronaldo or messi week in week out. For over 10+ years.

Maradona is easily the best ever.. Loads of his games are on RU-vid if you've not seen him... He could do everything messi could... And remember football favoured defenders back then..

@@54dbruno You said: *"He (Maradona) could do everything Messi could..."* Maradona: *344 goals* in his entire career. Messi: *600 goals* for Barcelona (not counting Argentina) and he's yet to retire or even slow down. TRY AGAIN.

@@solraclegnar4270 You mean Didi, Vava, Gerson, Jairzinho, Clodoaldo etc. These were also some of the best players of that era so it's a no wonder.

Exactly, think about cr7 and messi never won the world cup. Player like oezil, kroos, ramos,torres, villas, mbappe, pogba won the world cup. But none of them come close to messi and christiano. 🤦‍♂️

If you people have to ask such questions then you know nothing about football. That being said Ronaldo is better than Messi cause he has played in different leagues and had reached the pinnacle of all of them, and has brought home an international title to his country. Messi is everything he is today because of Barcelona(no exaggeration, look up the history of the growth issue he had and how they pumped money into him).

@@siriusbizniss messi has the most goals for argentina ever, he carried his team to a wc final, carried them to copa america finals twice in a row, and the latest wc hes the reason they even qualified cause of his hattrick and save the game. When has ronaldo ever reached a WC final? Messi cant do everything you people blame him yet never look at others. Secondly ronaldo played and plays on the best teams of each league when he moves for a new "challenge" lmao BUTTTT while in madrid he won la liga only twice and outscored messi twice lmao yet he "domimated each league" stoppit 🤧🤧

@@siriusbizniss 🤣🤣 you clown

@@siriusbizniss and you know something about football? Imagine saying Ronaldo is the pinnacle of Serie A when he is not even the league's top goal scorer. The "facts" you speak are subjective and sketchy at best

I don't understand. I mean he says Messi doesn't do anything for Argentina. He literally single handedly brought them to the WC last year. Argentina are currently the worst team in the world. If he had half decent players he'd have something

@@contact5235 calm the fuck down. argentina are mediocre but to call them the worst is delusional even for messi fanboys. they still have world class strikers which most other teams with bad midfields and defences don't. but yes, it's not good enough to win a world cup

@@contact5235 Argentina are the worst team in the world? What the fuck are you smoking?

@@b3rg059 They are terrible right now. Terrible players (all the good ones are old/retired for Argentina), overall a squad that just isn't worthy. Sure they aren't the worst national team worldwide, but amongst the worst supposed better teams.

@@contact5235 Winning a trophy on club level or international level requires the perfect team. Doing things week in week out, constantly providing mind boggling stats (goals, assists, chances, free kick). You wouldn't find any individual near him as in personal level of performance for last 10-15 years.

Pele era had no offside back then. (Don't know if true)

Football was best in brazil back then

Ahahahhahaha Pele won the World Cup at age 16. How many world cups has he won? And don t you mention the Olympics!

Sacha R world cup or winning any football tournament is a team effort. Its not a bowling tournament. You judge a team on trophies, and a player on his performances, records, stats, skill and ability. Based on your illogical logic Dembele and Umtiti are better players on barcelona much younger and with a world cup. Grab some brains asap. Pls.

@@doomsdayknight2229 Ahahahahhahahahhaa. Ok here is to your "superior logic" 1. He is autistic ( meaning he is smarter than any average person) 2. He has ONLY PLAYED FOR BARCELONA and Argentina. Meaning that if he cannot play anywhere else. 3. He has never won Any serious tittle with Argentina. 4. And these average french footballers that you mentioned ADMIT that Messi is greater than them. THEY ALL KNOW IT. 5. I wasn t comparing Messi to them but to Pele who by the way won 2 World Cups. 6. I get it that you love Messi and so do I but he is not the GOAT. He is the best of our generation period.

they hate him dont take it personal man its just these espn clowns who are biassed against him the whole world knows Cristiano is more proved than Messi.

They are jealous don’t think too much about it! 😁

Only kid compare Messi to Cristiano, while the football expert busy comparing messi with all time greatest like Pele Maradona for GOAT debate

Or Ronaldhino. Those who love playing these game know Ronaldhino is the true GOAT. I have yet to see Messi do what Ronaldhino did.

@@eerftsul , common man....Ronaldinho was amazing but he played for a very short time .

That’s not what he’s saying though. He’s saying that at the club level their are 4 legends which include Messi, but in order to distinguish himself amongst the others winning a World Cup is essential. Think about it. Let’s say a player comes along who is around the same level as Messi and matches all of his club records. You would say they were equals right? But let’s say this player also had a far more successful international career and won the World Cup, dominating international football. Well, then you’d have to give the crown of greatness to him over Messi. Eventually someone like this will come along to the point that you could not ever question his resume as the so called GOAT. Oh and btw... virtually every great that has played has been from countries that are quite good at international football. Messi being one of them.

Di Lima was called extra-terrestrial, O Fenômeno because he was truly magical. Messi is in the class of C Ronaldo who has actually won three consecutive UCL titles and an European championship title.

@@therealtigertalk the argument fails on the simple fact that it depends on who you are playing with internationally. R9 played with one of the greatest Brazil teams ever. Same is true of Pele. A squad of greats. Argentina have had weak teams for the past two WCs and only got to a final because of messi's exploits. Maradona also played in an Argentina team more equal to their peers than the Argentina of the last two WCs. If George Best had avoided drink and fulfilled his potential, would he not be in the argument because he was from NI and not able to win a WC? That's silly. A player is judged on his ability and what he does week in week out. Messi is unrivalled in this respect. Wont even go into how EVERY player is a professional athlete now compared to Maradona and Pele's days.

yoogeo1 Argentina has not had “weak” teams. Talent wise they have always been amongst the best in international football. And Messi has been underwhelming in the knockout stages. Either way I don’t subscribe to Shaka’s argument. I think Messi is the best player of all time but not the greatest. By that I mean he is the most skillful player to ever play the game but in 100 years or so someone will come that is even better. But just because that player is better does not mean he is greater. Each generation is different based on the accessibility of training and technological advancements. Not to mention the different tactics, styles of play, and rules. This is why to me you cannot compare one generation to the next in terms of greatness. So Pelé, Messi, Maradona etc. defined their generations and as a result can be labeled as the greatest but only within their respective eras. For example you cannot really compare Napoleon to George Washington. But you can respect the accomplishments of each.

@@therealtigertalk theres a video on RU-vid showing the squad Argentina took to the last two world cups and just how poor they were. People romanticise Argentina because of the Maradona and riquelme eras but the squad has been poor for a very long while and people actually forget that. He was underwhelming in the knockout rounds the last world cup, but brilliant in the one they got to the final. Note the game against Belgium in which he tore them apart single handedly...

Absolutely

@TheRealist 811 Name me one player from that team without googling it. It's so funny to read comments from people who want to play experts but have actually no idea what they're talking about...

TheRealist 811 then messi dragged Argentina to 3 finals in 4 or 3 years so sad that his team contained likes of higuain

Better still, put Pele on those Argentina teams that Messi was in, Argentina would be counting at least 2 more WCup wins

@@ugawinner7731 put pele on argentina team on 2014 and argentina would dreaming to get qualified in wc

So basically you're not allowed to have an opinion on something unless you were a part of it at the highest level. Great logic m8

So a pre requisite of pundit of any sports is that he/she has to be a sportmen/women prior? And movie critics has to be a film director prior?

Me🤣🤣messi is goated now

U should go. Messi is not even top 3. He's a complete failure with his national team.

the national team who refused to pay for his medical expenses but barca did..lmao

@@michaeltrumph121 without winning worldcup he is considered as goat then how much better is he than the other winners.there are many worldcup winners klose is leading worldcup goalscorer he is not in the picture for goat.

@@saishashank4397 Klose was just a benchwarmer in most matches in 2014, not the reason they won the WC.

ever since xavi left, he's choked. he'd choke at the premier league where every single match has crazy intensity. instead he plays in his safe farmer league

Paul Mutuku i know Pavard is twice the player messi is

It kills him to see Messi have a average of 43 goals let alone his assists for the past 14 years since he debuted.

Yes they delivered wen it mattered did your shit messi deliver

edwin terence wabushi Hahaha go back to Africa and play in the forrest, this football game is not for your brain to handle

Sorry bro your DNA reflects your stupidity mutuku

AND single handedly took them to the 2018 WC. Without him, they wouldn't even have qualified. If that doesn't tell you how trash the team around him is/was, then what else would? Like, come on...

He never said that. He only says Messi's resume isn't as impressive as the others in WCs.

Messi has brought argentina to the most finals in their history

@@elgallo1606 but did Jack shit in that tournament and please dont say his teammates lets him down its the same teammates he had since 2010 well some of them

And he's Argentina's all time scorer

I honestly think Shaka thinks he is making a legitimate argument. This moron looks at being the GOAT as some superficial bullshit that revolves around trophies rather than the players skill.

Why is Messi a goat ? Because he scored 2 goals against Liverpool does not make him a goat. Fact!

@@benban8055 look at his career achievements...Not just 2 goals or a single tournament

@@benban8055 clearly it's not the Liverpool goals being discussed. Don't be stupid.

@@curtisprince1980 Who said the Liverpool goals is what is being discussed? Are you confused ? I think you are.

Respect !

Respect..

you have a real football brain there sir and not letting favoritism cloud your judgment..kudos to you sir

I am in awe when both played, like Ronaldo against Atletico, just amazed by ronaldo

RONaldo is better than pessi

BlackSeedsOfVengeance facts 💯

LoL you're just saying that just to push the Messi is the "GOAT" narrative down our throats. Get lost.

@@runrafarunthebestintheworld triggered Ronalso fan 🙉

@@runrafarunthebestintheworld He is. Nobody needs pushing.

The G.O.A.T wont have trouble winning a international trophy.Yet to this day Messi hasn't won 1. In a club conversation Messi will take the conversation.The world cup converstation is rubish.People should look outside the world cup.

@Dr. Dan Bigs ggg

@milin milin "farmers" in this case was meant literally and not figuratively...

@milin milin It can't possibly get anymore competitive than now. Pros nowadays eat sleep and breathe football everything is controlled and they're like robots now. Unless we develop a super player serum like captain America then this is the peak

Pele has 3 World Cups and scored 1284 goals, far superior then Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo combined.

@@rogerstephenroth8073 😂

He is the goat still

tbf tho Shaka was a great keeper.

Peter Griffin Messi would still ruin him lol

He was good not great and Messi would nutmeg him

Peter Griffin Let’s be honest - how “good” can a goalkeeper actually be? There are definitely very good goalkeepers but against Messi they may as well not be there most of the time.

Aditya Mankare 😂 yes he is

True that 😂😂

GOAT Comment

these pundits are messi fanboys. don't worry, it's just ridiculous but what they say isn't facts, just their little fairy tail opinion

Yeah whatever penaldo gayboy

@@kristofdd413 better to score penaltie s than to miss important ones that could win your trophies, pessi fangirl

Messi is the GOAT

@@kristofdd413 "penaldo" messi's only goal in the copa america was a penalty haha he's shit without barcelona forcing passes to him

he was GL

Regardless of Shaka's opinion, it will always have people saying otherwise.

And they should but when all said and done nobody in the history of this sports has a person influence the team like messi has. For a decade.

In my opinion, Thomas Muller is the greatest player of all time. I just think that on an individual level, he has long surpassed the likes of Pele, Maradona, Messi, Ronaldo Nazario, Cristiano Ronaldo,Cruyff and Zidane. If you look at the things he’s done, it’s absolutely incredible. Simply no one has the ability to perform as dominantly and successfully in big games as Muller. At every major tournament, he has performed extremely well especially against top clubs in the knockout phase. In the champions league, he has scored massive goals against Real Madrid, FC Barcelona, Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Juventus to kill them off. He has bagged world class performances at the World Cup by scoring in bunches against England, Argentina, Uruguay, Portugal and Brazil. Footballers should be ranked for how clutch they are and their ability to win matches. How many players have achieved as prestigiously at both club and international level as Muller? There is no one close to his level, therefore he is the undisputed GOAT.

But I bet if Messi ever won a World Cup by some miracle his fans would never ever stop talking about it as the greatest achievement of his career, so it is what it is, however delusional you want to call it the World Cup is the most prestigious trophy in the entire sport and all the players talked about in the GOAT conversation have atleast one of them.

voldmerot to me you compare individual Stats and how they played in games . To me comparing team trophies is different that team success

It's actually not how can a player be considered the GOAT if he has never won the most important title the World Cup. Imagine calling Michael Jordan a GOAT if he never won a championship lol

Vince E that totally different, football there’s other trophies. While NBA only has one. Plus basketball different it’s a game of 5v5 so a single player can really dictate the game more and not rely on teammates as much compare to football where it’s a game of 11 v 11

i'M OLD saw them both. Pele was a greater player.

@@forshigity5000 against truck drivers?, No defense strategy?

This like telling swae Lee is better than 2pac .....busted 😂

MMM against potato farmers?

Tupac is forever I’m young and you can’t be the hands down GOAT yet you can’t win the World Cup with Argentina.

There are

tribal que I agree.

Yeah stupid higuain. And stupid manager for putting higuain in instead of aguero

Messi missed a 1v1 too.

@@hellowalkman4506 when?

@@hellowalkman4506 do you know what 1 vs 1 is?

@@hellowalkman4506 when was this lmao? must of watched the wrong WC final

izzojunior he’s basically saying jf Messi was born in france, germnay, brazil etc he’d be the goat

You have to be a major influence in the win, you can’t just be a part of the team

@@afshara100 still it means griezzmann is better than him then?

Class on Bread I don’t think griezmann had the biggest influence on the team, so no. Mbappe at age 19 however was very impressive, and there’s an argument there in terms of international effectiveness, but not club effectiveness. You have to have both.

Clearly you're too stupid to understand nuance

xtrey19x You’re kidding?! 🤦🏾‍♂️ ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YkzsZohViUQ.html

@@dkg6826 I respect the ESPN FC crew but they are being hypocritical because I remember all of them singing Messi's praises last week but now when Messi doesn't get a fortunate of the crossbar rebound or a free kick goal it's everyone else's fault(excluding Messi) that Barcelona chokes again.

xtrey19x ok so explain to me how messi chocked??

@@dkg6826 if he gets all the credit when they win then he should also share the blame when they fail in such a spectacular fashion. He choked.

xtrey19x Yes the **TEAM chocked, but dont blame Messi for that. They wouldn’t even be there without him. How about Suarez, Coutinho etc. Infact if there’s one player to blame in this tie was Dembele for his embarrassing miss at camp nou! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jRrbOxZ9lcU.html

So delisional

Kkkkkk its true. He always disappointing in main games

Marcio Neves what??? 🤣🤣🤣 Stop it! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YkzsZohViUQ.html

idiot . his team let him down football is a game of team not one player. he needs support from his steam.

NO a team did. not 1 player.

u didnt watch the game, almost all tries & shots from Barca came from Messi...He's still the GOAT,

Henrik Rodriguez 🤦🏼‍♂️. Messi is a great talented player , i agree he is the Greatest club player to ever exist but falls short to the garrinchas , Socrates, Ronaldo’s, Dinhos ,kempes , ruggeri’s just to mention these few .

Griezmann carried Les Bleus in 2018

Or should we say France national team carried Giroud to the world cup !!!

I agree that Messi's consistency and longevity is to be noted and in a side by side comparison it looks more impressive. But, the reality is that you cannot compare these players with amazing talents and abilities across different eras. Messi has the greatest highlight reel I've ever seen. But that's because we live in an era where we can see almost everything he does and watch countless hours of his highlights. We have some highlights of Maradonna and Pele but it just doesn't compare. We also live in an era where health diet and fitness are down to a science. Who knows what Pele would have done now given the science and research that goes into top level athletic performance. So all Shaka is saying is the only thing we can use to compare them, is what i call mental grit and toughness that comes with the pressure a World Cup. Because that pressure is consistent across the eras. -- They player doesn't have clubmates that know their play. ---The hopes and dreams of an entire country on your back. --If you lose a game you go home. Some players rise to the occasion and take their play to new levels.. some play their normal game and some players dont measure up. Shaka did not make up those stats. He has played 756 minutes in World Cup knockout matches since 2006, but has failed to score a single goal. He has scored 50% of his World Cup goals against Nigeria (three of six) the rest against Iraq and some other low ranked teams. Remember we are talking about the greatest player to ever play the game.

@@N8N-Soccer seems a little bit over complicated to me in what is after all a simple game. Just looking at what Messi does with a football in all situations for 10 years against the best defenders in the world makes him the best player ever. Also in todays football most of the top teams in Europe are better than most of the Countries playing in the World Cup which wasn't always the case.

Deo1 The overall quality of play though is better as well. Defenders are better in every way. The tactics are better in every way. If you want to apply better health and diets then you need to acknowledge the fact that Messi is playing against people with the same benefits, just like pele was playing against players with the same disadvantages.

Abderian, great point.. And let me clarify I do think Messi is in the discussion for the greatest. However, consider that the one thing that underscores just how great he is his LONGEVITY and CONSISTENCY. It’s what everyone points to as what separates him from other greats. ie. playing the game at a top leveI for over a decade. To reiterate my earlier point..that is based almost purely on science and differing approaches to when Pele played to now. Health and fitness and understanding recovery techniques and rehab; hydration; fatigue - you name it. These players these days are treated like an F1 race car for good reason. They train with electronic monitors for Christ sake. They train /play on pristine pitches. . Their gear is custom designed per player. Everything is set so Messi will never break and yet he still does because he is still part human. All of this contributes to his amazing talent staying with us for so long. Having said that, please research Pele and what he had to endure during his time. From the pitches to gear to abuse on and off the pitch..And still he also played for a long time.

splodge 57, I am not anti- Messi in any way, I’m fact my comments aren’t necessarily to say he’s not the greatest. They were in defense of Shaka’s opinion. You had made some comments that what he said was “rubbish” and that basically Messi was way above the rest. I was just pointing out that people will have different opinions on who is the Greatest. and Shaka’s arguments were actually valid. If you are the greatest player in the history of the game.. then explain those statistics. And let’s not use the age old excuse of it’s a team sport and the rest of the teams he has been on sucks. Because : 1- Its not like the other players on the Argentine squads play in Sunday leagues 2- every other team in the World Cup has the same situation to deal with 3- Messi didnt earn his greatness creds from his ability to make and receive great passes to and from his teammates- He is a game changer. The guy can on his own take on any number of defenders at will. That’s why he is the magician. That’s why we are having this discussion. Shaka is saying when the world is watching and waiting. When his countrymen are hoping and praying that the greatest footballer in the history of the game will take over the game ... he doesn’t.

Di Stefano won about 5 or 6 European cups when only the league champions participated. So better than Messi then. Pele won the Copa Libertadores twice destroying European champions, Benfca to win the World Club cup.

Ugochukwu Okafor ooooo destroying a team of Portuguese part time players/part time farmers

@@BetterCallSaul. Benfica were legitimate European champions having beaten Barcelona 3-2 in the final.

Do you know, difference between a stone and a rock. The champions league is like a stone, analogy for you

@@Vince-ud3ek 5 Champions League that Real Madrid & Di Stefano won was hugely arguable in term of its prestige. Completely a different tournament back then. Not to mention the suspected manipulation/involvement of Spanish government at that time. I left that for you to research.

ya maradona didn't need to do that to win

@@iamluis3046 they're not even including him but if you look at individual performance and not trophies Maradona is the goat. Even won trophies with less powerful teams.

You need to tell Shaka this

I honestly think that if Messi played for Spain instead of Argentina, he could have possibly won 2WCs and 3Euros. Despite being the exact same player as he is today. Shaka is somehow forgetting that football is a team game. There are only 8 countries that have ever won the World Cup of football. Sucks for you if you're born in one of the other 187 countries, you're not even qualified to be in the GOAT-discussion. That is the logic of the narrow-minded dogmatic called Mr. Shaka.

How can he be the GOAT when Ronaldo has more international trophies and champions league and mor goals in Champions league and world cup. Also proven in 3 different leagues. The most complete player with Strength Speed Headers Shooting Skills Defending Penalties Finishing.

Champions legaue history of fc barcelona: 5 Ronaldo alone: 5

@@ahrlj24 Don't argue with messi fans...They are delusional

CR7 is the true GOAT. Dude has won everything for his club and has silverware for his country. Unlike Messi he's a leader and respects his country's jersey. CR7 >>>Messi. Can't change my mind.

Hahaha salty Ronaldo fan boys. Cristiano Ronaldo is not even in the debate 😂😂😂

He listing facts though, where's your emotional argument

Sean Houlker weirdo

That's why the world cup is harder...you're not allowed to poach players....dumbass.

*face palm*

@@jr3624 the teammates you get are completely by chance, with clubs every player gets an even chance to succeed

Jr Morales tell that to Qatar lol

Lucas what are you smoking??? Varane, Umtiti, pogba, Kante, fekir, dembele, Mbappe, Griezman, are all top 5 in their position in the world, they beat Lpool and Barca

So by your logic, he is the GOAT...as although you haven't seen them "play" you have seen "highlights" and wasn't impressed, but highlights are from actual play footage so you "have seen them".

@@Ratooner basically.

@@Ratooner yeah and that didn't impress him. Simple. Messi will impress you in highlights as well

@TheRealist 811 Napoli was NOT average in the 80s. Argentina had a powerhouse of a team with Maradona. Get your fucking facts right idio5

Please leave my giroud alone

@@juanmanuelcorrea7673 yet Aguero, Di Maria, Mascherano, Milito, Saviola, Banega, Higuain, Dybala, Tevez, etc... were not powerhouse of a team when Messi was playing with them right?😂😂 if Pessi failed it is because he plays with woods, but if they all win together, then it is him, blame everyone so that Messi would look good😂😂 i thought a great player makes a team look great😂😂

@@daniel_mensa All those players you mentioned are a failure in the national team. NOT POWERHOUSE (Dybala? Higuain? You know shit about football). Powerhouse is Batistuta, Pasarella, Burruchaga, Valdano... ETC. (You 100% do not know any of those players).Di maria... all those are just big name players. Di maria is a failure both in the national team and club. Banega? Serious cringe. Dybala has done nothing for Argentina. Tevez had his time. Higuain is the sole reason you're hating on Messi, because of him Messi doesn't have 2 Copa Americas and a world cup.

@itsmejohny he's very intelligent and has good link up play. Why did France pick him instead of lacazette and others. He's more useful than you think

No 1.Messi 2.Ronaldo "fenomeno"

What has Messi done to prove himself?

LOL

Arjun Hasnain I'm a Liverpool fan and Messi is the GOAT...he and Vidal were the only ones who tried last night

I must say, C.Ronaldo would have never let that 3-0 slip away. He would have been kicking and screaming at all his teammates. And plus in massive games like that - " 1 chance, bang" it's in the net