@@v4v819 I think it's because it's a lot harder to excel as a smaller player similar to basketball. Which is why in order to do so you must come up with unique ways to differentiate yourself from the rest.
@@AdamOBrien-e4p I dig your theory! I think if smaller kids was encouraged to see it as a challenge not a handicap then there would be more great players given what your theory reveals about what makes a great player great compared to great talent without a need to better himself...
as a kings fan, i always looked at the difference between Blake Lizotte and PLD. Lizotte is listed at 5’9 although he looks way smaller (i’d say like 5’7). Lizzo is an absolute hound, constantly forchecking, back checking, stick checking, body checking. whereas PLD just looks lazy out there and doesn’t have a care in the world. i always thought that if PLD had Lizzo’s mentality, he would be an absolute superstar. but there’s a reason Lizotte is built like this, because he had to be.
Brad Marchand, Martin St Louis, Theoren Fleury, Nathan Gerbe, Alex DeBrincat, Patrick Kane, Cole Caufield, Artemi Panarin, Kirill Kaprizov, etc... I'm sure Im forgetting some players but there are tons of high scoring NHLers who have proven that you can get by in the Show being under 6'
Anyone got any initial thoughts on the top 5 tallest teams. He mentioned the bruins and Panthers, but the entire Blackhawks defense is 6'2+. Heck Alex Vlasic is 6'7"
I am lacking words to tell you how good that video is. Now days 90% of videos and article are lacking relevant information and correlation between statements. What you just did is captivating, informative and is applicable to the past and future of hockey. Thank you very much for that! PS: there is one thing I will say about the part where you talk about McDavid's speed and how other players can match his speed. I truly don't believe anyone can match his speed with the puck. Without it you are correct, but no player skates like him with the puck.
Once I did a calculation of how many players in the top 100 scorers of all time (and playoff scorers) were at or below current NHL average (6'0, 200lbs). 46% of all time point scorers were below that (including critically, Gretzky) and 43% of all time playoff scorers. So sure, having some size benefits players, but clearly its infinitely more about HOW you play vs how tall you are.
The average height of an North American man is 5'9, considering in the last draft 3 players below 5'10 were drafted, I'm going to assume that being big in hockey is the answer.
It's incredibly rare to have the kind of talent the top 100 scorers all time have though. Size doesn't matter for them because they have extremely high-level skill that separates them from everyone else. To see if size matters you have to look at third/fourth-liners or second/third-pair defensemen, because their skill level is closer to the "average" of the league and thus isn't something that can separate them from the rest of the players.
@@sophiewang1025 Totally agree. Size matters, but I think it doesn't matter as much as some people believe. There probably is a little bit of selection bias where coaches prefer bigger players and penalize smaller players leading to less opportunities and game time. With that said being bigger for sure is optimally selected for otherwise more statistically short players (sub 5'9) would be in the league.
If you're under 6 feet then you can't help your team get deep in the playoffs but you can become an all star in the regular season on your frazzle dazzle but you're be injured or rag dolled in the playoffs and the wear and tear at the size will break you before the second round begins...
In that clip of Saros you can actually see him set his left skate in anticipation of pushing off to his right…. man, I really appreciate your vids thanks!🎉
There are small players that play big and big players that play small. Comparatively small 6’0” Demitri Kulikov plowed 6’8” Matt Rempe like s pile of snow, while Ryan Lomberg, who no matter what metrics say cannot be taller than 5’8” because im taller than him, never gets pushed around.
Love how you showed Makars poke check against McDavid in the playoffs. Him and Towes put on a masterclass against McDavid and Drai in the playoffs. It’s a thing of beauty
That wcf was the only time I've seen McDavid suprised and thrown off by someone else's speed. That Avs speed completely neutralized his greatest strength.
@@Markymark-gg6qf They did nothing special. McDavid doesn’t look like McDavid against the Avs, sorry bud. Ive seen no pair do better against Drai and McDavid in the playoffs than Towes and Makar, not sure what to tell ya. The times I’ve seen them play against one another in the playoffs Drai and McDavid were also on the same line. Not sure why you’re so triggered lol
This is one of the more fascinating aspects of the game to me. It seems like a mix of size vs speed is always best. As a Devils fan, we used to be known as a VERY physical team back in the day. The new focus on speed and skill got us Jack and Luke, Bratt, Hischier, but that was a clear problem last year when teams made a point of physically steamrolling us. Fitzgerald went and got McDermid ... because he had to, and then there was a clear focus on getting bigger and more physical players this offseason. I hope the balance is right now.
Glad to see you have a balanced take on this. There's no better time to be a smaller player in the NHL, but it's still a game played on ice. If weight (not to mention reach) didn't matter on ice, curlers wouldn't obsess over stone weight. Yes a player is mobile and can change direction very quickly these days, but when there is contact, suddenly weight matters a lot on the ice. Posture and speed can help a tough small player overcome some of this effect, but there are also guys out there who have speed, skill, *and* size.
I love your videos, if you could get to it, I'd very much appreciate it as a Devils fan a deep-dive into why they failed this past season after a record-setting campaign and after making some offseason additions whether or not they can actually become legit contenders.
What about Theo Fleury at 5’6” and Nathan Gerbe at 5’5” both brilliant players. It’s not all about being big, but you’re right that small players always get discarded as not good enough, but I’ve met enough smaller players over the years that could’ve matched many in the NHL in their day
You say Bedard Should take lessons from Gretzky when it comes to avoiding being hit. I agree, but he should also look at the guy who Gretzky looked at and learned from when he was 15 years old; Bobby Clarke. Clarke found ways to avoid but also deal with it when he had to. Look at him, it's amazing that he was part of the 1970's Flyers team and not only survived but thrived. That alone puts him up there as one of the greats in my book.
Patrick Kane used to and probably still does reach out to these guys for tips on not getting hit. Connor Bedard CAN'T get hit. Period. And dealing it out is all timing. But at the end of the day you have to maul other teams, you can't have 5 Connor Bedards (IMHO).
After the 05 lockout, guys who could skate and make plays were put on a pedestal as the game became more about the ability to possess the puck and generate opportunities. Smaller guys all of a sudden had an advantage. Now the bigger guys have adjusted their games to be much better skaters than big guys were 15 years ago so the edge smaller guys had is now becoming extinct, IMO. I think the lanky ectomorph build will be taking over the game soon. Like you said, tall and lanky enough to protect pucks, slender enough to skate w speed and agility but yet a project able frame for strength.
This is what i like about hockey and its so different compared to other sports, where you might just need to be tall or big and bulky or lean. there is balance of skill and toughness in hockey and i feel like it gives players options on what style they play, And there is nothing better than someone lining up a big and getting dangled or vise versa
I also always think of Clayton Keller, who is one of my favorite players. He's small and light, but if you watch him play, it's not like he plays scared. He just knows how to position himself, and as messy as the Coyotes were, they usually did a good job of complimenting Keller's skills with linemates who had more of that size to work with. And tbh too much size can be a detriment, it's hard to learn to skate when you get past 6'5, it can be difficult to move effectively. It's why Silayev was such an enticing prospect for a lot of teams this draft (even if imo he doesnt have the skill), it's why Matt Rempe got pushed to be an enforcer.
I actually think that Chara is one of those exceptional big players that would have actually been better at his sport had he been a few inches shorter...
@@CanoeToNewOrleans You're telling me Yzerman, Sakic, Crosby, Toews gave their teammates less confidence because they weren't a head taller than their opponents... Napoleon is an extreme threat for your state of mind, my overly simplistic friend...
@@v4v819 Without question. The Bruins played with more swagger and physicality when they had Chara. When the biggest guy in the league is on your team, you feel like you can get away with more because he'll back you up. All Stevie Y, Crosby, Sakic and Toews can do is score points. They can't kick ass.
I wonder how Bedard would do with wood sticks? As an Oilers fan totally agree with your views on Skinner, down way too soon. I think goalies would be more successful if they learned how to poke check. Rare to see now. Great video.
It’s rarely the most important thing but if you’re picking between 2 roughly equal players, one is 5’11 and the other is 6’3 you’re taking the bigger guy
Without small players the game would get stale really fast. Little guys disadvantage forces them to find new ways to play and keep the game interesting.
A good example to see both sides of the story is the avs defensemen. They’re a small group but defend extremely well, and because they’re so mobile they can transition and go offensive so well. The bad side is they lack the physicality. It’s not like they don’t play physically and don’t hit, but sometimes it’s tough to seperate the puck from the body, win a board battle, and clear out the front of the net. Luckily they’re all so good positionally, and are such a good possession and transition team, that it doesn’t really matter.
Watching Kariya and St. Louis play in the day of murderous open ice hits, magical to watch. Although Kariya getting demolished by Steven’s was hard to watch
The game has changed very recently to protect players from needless hits and harassment with hooking not being allowed anymore. It's more of a skill game where you are actually meant to play hockey instead of just brutalize the opponents best player. When skill can be expressed then it favors the smaller players with less mass being more accurate and faster. NBA is the best demonstration of how mass decreases accuracy. But in hockey being smaller really means being 5'11". Don't get much benefit from being smaller than that. Weight matters when there's elevation but as hockey is played on a completely flat surface both length and power are more important for speed. Bedard is pretty much as small as you can be without starting to suffer from it. At 5'5" I would guess that makes you slower. Would be fine for a climber in cycling or some sport where you directly benefit from less weight. But in hockey you have less reach, shorter stride and you really suffer in a large part of the game when battling for puck. It's not that you can replace size with skill but the other way around. Size can account for a lack of skill. You have very few small players who are average but you have a lot of big players who are. For goalies it's a much more obvious situation where simply being bigger makes it easier to block shots. But once you go basketball big you become too cumbersome to move fast and get into those awkward positions.. Like for 7 footers joints are a problem.
like most things, if you have abnormal talent, size can be overcome. but like anything, you slap a 6'8 guy against a 5'6 and the small guy loses almost everything if they have the exact same skill and brains. I am 6'2 and a dutch beanpole no matter what i do,. I wanted to be a TE in football but was always a WR because of speed jumping and height, but most of all, I just could not physically withstand another guy play after play who was an extra 45 to 60 pounds slamming into me the same way linemen can, or a guy who is 6'2 210 vs me at 6'2 165 on a heavy day, even with competitive bench numbers ext. we are all different, but hey, that is a fun part of being human
i'm a tampa guy but am rooting for stankoven (DAL) at 5ft8 to win RoY in 2025. heart of a lion, and is willing to step to the big moment when called upon. 🔥
I think PLD proves another reason why size is so desirable. When it comes to trading, losses can be recouped easier if the player, while horrible, has size. Last point: during the golden age of the NJ Devils, they had Scott Stevens 6'0 Scott Niedermayer 6'0 Ken Daneyko 6'0 Brian Rafalski 5'10
Don’t forget Patty Kane. Should have been mentioned as a MVP player in his prime. Also I would be interested to see career length for the smaller guys.
Conner mcdavid is a spitting image of what happens when you do everything right, the way he can process a play happening in mer seconds is the result of of his ability too read off everyone this has nothing too do with his height and everything too do with the way he plays sees the game it’s one thing too witness it on tv but irl it’s something too beautiful truly
I agree that most of what makes him good has nothing to do with his height. But if he were shorter I suspect he would be slightly slower on top speed. You could maybe argue he would have better agility, but Mcdavid is already insanely good at changing directions.
Size does matter but it's just one factor. Bedard wasn't just small, he had other weaknesses and is injury prone. Crosby was also earlier in his career, but no one thinks 5'11 200lb is too small to play in the NHL.
Growing up in the 90s, A 6'2" goalie was seen as pretty big, with lots of very good goalies who were 5'8"-5'10". Now I see a 6 foot Dustin Wolf and he looks tiny in the net.
It's the composite stick... A real game changer that makes everyone's shot as fast and deceptive as the top 2 snipers of the league back in the day... Also allows for more shot selection because you can let off a lightning fast snap shot with the speed near the slapshot but the accuracy of a wrister... And players are so good at shooting off their off-leg and disguising their shot as well as dangling plus moving the shot placement point on the fly that there's almost no time for anticipation for the goaltender and a wrister can get near 100 miles an hour- faster than what the human eye can detect... You need a super sound technical game with your angles nailed now to have a chance and a big body essential because even small cracks bring the wall down with most top goal scorers these days... Having said all that... I still think Brett had the best one-timer of all time with that wooden stick and his fluid motion and perfect Technique... No one could track the goaltender's shifting weight from one foot to another like Brett! Most his goals were low- like most goals in history in the league- and he would always react to the goaltender and shoot it contrary to his position and reaction and direction of movement...
What you say is true during regular season, but playoffs go on a different standard. Size does matter. Quinn Heghes was rocked in the playoffs this year and near the end he was dumping the puck fast to avoid being hit by the bigger forwards. Which is why I feel Canucks are going big on all the other D'men. Small players can get you to the playoffs, but won't win you the cup.
Size definitely comes in handy during the postseason. When you’re in a very physical and grueling series, having a big, fast and nasty team will pay off dividends as the series progresses and wearing down your opponent. That adage is correct though. Scouts always love big players. Especially if said big players have the skating ability and hands to complement their size. Whereas smaller players have to be that much better than every other player their size to draw interest.
When Montreal had Larry Robison and Craig Ludwig that was huge. Pronger and his I'll say kids using angles was a thing. Hatcher was a guy that would hurt you really bad, and was an elite at his time. Boy this is a tough idea to think about. Would I want a Prime Makar or Prime Chara....
Depends on your role and style of play. Body mechanics is more important. Some people just move and look as if they are not "comfortable" performing in their body.
I think being a standard size is best, not too big where you stand out, but not too small where you’re knocked all over. Most of the greats, including Wayne Gretzky, Connor McDavid, Sidney Crosby are all pretty normal in size (5’10-5’11). It allows for good body control, swiftness and ability to still defend yourself.
You can’t think an 18 year old at 5’10” is going to be his final size. Men have a final growth spurt after 18yo. I put on almost 1.5” between 19-21yo. I was always tall, I got even taller from Hight School to 21, and the biggest jump was around 20. I remember getting even more clumsy than usual at one point, and didn’t realize the cause until a checkup at the Dr. I thought I was done, but boom, another inch, and over the next year another 3/8”. I wouldn’t be surprised if Beds ends up close to 6’.
As a goalie measured.at 179cm. Im often mentioned to be too small to be a great goalie but my hockey iq and skating ability made me an outlier that my beer league goalie rival struggled to keep up with me. Ended up playing moslty lob sided games cause i would occasionally be unbeatable when i read and move like a champ.
As a Devils fan the average height for d men makes me feel a lot better about the size of Hughes and Nemec. I’ve heard chatter about Nemec being small but I never really bought into it.
For an individual player it doesnt really matter, however to build a cup winning team you have to have good size all over the roster. Tampa, Colorado, Vegas and Florida all had big rosters
Seeing dudes like St Louis, Sullivan, and now Bedard makes me sure the bias against small players has always been dumb. I'm a bit biased since I have a relative who played well in the league just below the CHL and despite lighting it up in the season he could have been drafted to the CHL, he was told to his face that he was too small. Apparently leading scoring and having solid two way play isn't enough
You need a good mix. Small speedsters with great hockey IQ are important, but you gotta have some muscle for the corner battles and create space for the little guys.
Without watching the whole video, I'd say smaller size doesn't stop you from playing if you have the talent, but being taller it certainly helps with the physical part of the game (as long as you stay quick and agile)
About goalie size during the cup final, it's a big disingenuous to say only 1 in so many years has appeared as there's like 2-3 in the whole NHL each season. On the top of my head, there's like Sarros, Wolf, and Halak. A short goalie won't be picked, so the saying a short goalie can't do it just go around, but they aren't given a fair shake. Just look at Nathan Darveau in the Q. He's a 5'08" goalie that has been top 5 in SV% last couple of years, still undrafted. He's too small. But his younger teammate, Gabriel D'Aigle, 6'04", is being touted as the next MAF, but his SV% is worlds apart from Darveau. But he's big.
Size is one thing that matters. Skating ability, or maneuverability, is another thing that matters. Cognitive talent, and especially cognitive processing speed and visual-spatial awareness, also matters. Straight up (physical) speed matters. And attitude, work ethic, and receptiveness to coaching & feedback matter. So, yes, size matters, but it’s only one of several important criteria.
Yeah, size never becomes "just another number." It always matters - but it's never the only thing that matters. Trying to suggest otherwise is just silly. Two players who are otherwise identical in skill and speed, the guy who has 2 inches and 10 lbs on the other is going to have the edge. Period. But along with size, you have to consider speed, agility, awareness, creativity, toughness, etc etc etc. This is like asking "does footspeed matter?" Damn straight it does - but a guy who can park himself in front of the net, take punishment from the defensemen, distract the goalie, and tip the puck like a wizard is still going to find a place on a team even if he has slow feet.
