Does the LIE Angle of your Irons Really Matter 

Totally agree! Got fitted twice and of course the "best" clubs were all top of the line 😂. 600$ drivers on sale for 500$ or irins for 2k$. What a joke! I am currently fitting myself because I am tired of the deceit in the golf industry. Seems like 5% of information available might be truth. Sad reality

Let me know how you get on 👍

Thanks Jason. Make sure you share it with your golf buddies and get them all to subscribe 😀😀😀

Thanks for the kind feedback, glad you enjoyed the content 👍

Thank you Angel, very much appreciated. I'll need to rewatch this to remember what I joked about 😁

Like an arrow 😊 Circular is probably the most efficient for durability purposes as it can be rotated as it wears... But love the idea of an arrow 😊

Will make a huge difference.

Absolutely it will 👍🏻

Ground interaction is different plus left loft reduces the effect of lie angle issues (there's a complicated 3d explanation). Most decent hybrids now have adjustable hozels with lie angle adjustments on them 👍

That'll be tricky as it makes no difference for me mate, will have to get others to do the test for me and then show the numbers 👍

@@AskGolfNut I had a feeling you'd say that.

I'd give both sets of data for the trolls that still don't believe that people influence how shafts behave. That's why there's never a one size fits all 👍

I hit my first 8 shots, with my normal fade..... shaft optimizer recommended shafts, and my next 4 shots were all dead center or slightly left of target. Apparently it recommended 2 degrees up.

I honestly just wanted to try mizuno clubs and figured I would consider buying them if the numbers were good. I ended up buying all new wedges and a whole set of jpx HM.... made him take my money before I walked out.🤣

Hi Ian, actually on a hilly course lie angle means even more. If you imagine that you regularly play off lies with plus or minus 5 degrees then if you have a perfect lie the worst it will be is plus or minus 5 degrees (this is assuming that golfers haven't as yet learned the skill of changing lie dynamically within their swing). If you have let's say unfit clubs in the toe down error (common to see 4 degrees plus) then on up side hill lies then clubs can be as much as 10 degrees out which would be disastrous considering the opposite side hill would effectively be correct. The variation in shot shape, strike and curvature/start point would be crazy. Always best to try and get it as close to the middle then the misses are much smaller 👍

Might well be an interesting idea, 48 inch shaft against a 43 inch to see what the benefits are..... 👍

Within 1 degree should and would be ok. It's 4 yards offline or so depending. Would also work better as you warm up to full speed, as when you are slower at the start of the round before your body warms up properly, you won't be deflecting the shaft as much when you are slower, chances are you'll be fairly perfect for lie 👌👍

Hi nebrask39, Ping supply left handed heads in 2 different lie angles. To be fair Ping over supply AFS lie heads. Having the correct lie within a fitting isn't absolutely required, only the ability to know what lie you need which is where the GCQuad comes in. It's great to have them to prove the advantages of a correct lie but not essential. By far the most important thing is to ensure the correct lie angle is chosen depending on the individuals own requirements, miss hits and general swing dynamics. It's much more complicated as you are dealing with a 3 dimensional swing than just getting the lie correct. Everything is intertwined. 👍

Hi Mark, I'm 5 foot 10 inches tall. However depending how tall you are, what posture you have, lengths of arms and dynamic swing, all these will be accounted for in a proper custom fitting..... Not just a static fit which far too many people still do. Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍

Hi Kourt, for the decent player that doesn't have any issues with striking the ball before the ground, lie angle is very much so a trajectory based adjustment. As in all tour pros use lie angle to dial in trajectory. However golfers of much less ability and even half decent players that do have a distinct miss of contacting the ground first would benefit hugely from having a lie 0 (as best as possible) to act as a resistance buffer to the leading edge digging too early. Subject to certain ball above and below feet this lie issue could well be exacerbated causing a huge miss hit. Personally I fit dynamic lie differently depending on the golfers ability to strike and also based on their miss pattern. Very good players also can compensate for a poor lie when they know the specification of an iron, although most golfers struggle with normal wrist angles so teaching them the understanding about radial and ulna deviation would most probably cook their noodles 😊 Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍

Hi Michael, unfortunately I'm going to need a bit more information to be able to diagnose what you should do. Half inch short and orange lie is effectively 3 degrees flat so the shot shape isn't coming from lie angle it's very much so swing orientated. Do you know your delivery numbers or at least have a down the line video of your swing I could see to help further?

@@AskGolfNut Thank you so much for the quick response. Unfortunately I don't have any of that right now. I planning on a trip to driving range that has trackman that can be used.

Hi Michael, you're welcome I always try to respond to comments where possible. With regards to trackman there are limitations to its usefulness in certain situations so if there is a possibility of getting on a foresight system such as GC2 with HMT or GCQuad then this would be a much better capture of exactly what is the issue. For example trackman can't see where you physically strike the ball in the face, and it doesn't see lie angle as accurately etc. Happy to assist in any way I can, if you find out your delivery numbers and then want to include s swing video you can send it to... askgolfnut@gmail.com

You could but then you'd sacrifice club head speed and also swing weighting would feel different. Depending on your irons (what model they are) you may be able to get them bent to suit. But I would always get yourself tested using a Foresight GC2 with HMT or GCQuad to physically measure dynamic lie without using the dreaded lie board 👍

My local course is a heathland course where due to restrictions due to scientific interest, they are unable to water the fairways. This happens in the UK quite a lot for multiple reasons so especially in the summer there are courses that play hugely differently in summer to winter. Places where they are able to manicure the grass all year round would see more consistent reactions 👍

@@AskGolfNut I live in Michigan. We have lots of fresh water! 😁

Not really as a player with a more inside approach has a pattern of actually delivering the handle lower than the golfer that swings out to in. So if you had flat clubs and then swung more in to out it could well make dynamic lie worse 👍

Hi Aksel, interesting topic. What's your thoughts and beliefs on swing weight and it's roll within fitting and influences within swing dynamics?

@@AskGolfNut Swing weight is not something alot of testers focus on. They mostly just test flex and weight. Swing weight can drastically change how you swing a club, and give in many cases alot more ballspeed and other benefits, if fittet into the correct swing weight, and not like most manufactors sell, wich is mostly D2

@@AskGolfNut Plus people dont realise how easy you can actully screw up your irons, if you just change grips or whatever. As little as 2 grams, can change your swing weight. Ofcourse flex etc is also importent, but almost none of the "fitters" focus on swing weight

My fitter actually switched my club I was fit into, for the same head/ shaft with different weights. ( the head was made for +1inch shaft) I didn't pure the shot, but they were still perfectly straight. So apparently it does have an effect on striking.

Hi Bandit, have you got head delivery data for the short irons so we can work out why 👍

@@AskGolfNut No sorry my last actual Iron fitting was 2-3 years ago with Orka and I don't have any data from the fitting still to hand. But I noticed/realised that I was hitting my short Irons left of target, so had my local Pro bend my 9 iron and wedges 2 degs flat and it has straightened my ball flight with my shorter clubs. I suspect that it might be a club delivery issue, I mainly play knock down shots with my shorter clubs so I might be doing something funky at impact with these clubs. The next time I get fitted for Irons, I will make sure that I get a full handover and test each club to make sure that the lie angle/ball flight is kosher for each Iron.

The gold references the grip size options..... White yellow aqua etc 👍

Hi John, I always try and answer every comment as best as I can. Don't usually get the chance to but I'm waiting on a data transfer between my cameras and PC 😊 When you manipulate club dynamics to artificially curve a ball in fade or draw, there is always the possibility of changing the lie angle within the swing causing either a help of hindrance to the shot. Now it's always best to be as close to lie 0 as at least then you are either way of perfect when you deviate. Because people have different deliveries, nothing to do with static fitting, that process needs to be binned off ASAP, they all deliver different wrist angles into the impact zone affecting lie angle. Some are within tolerance and can easily get custom fitted for their swing, others are so way out that they require coaching to make the delivery sensible as dramatic lie deliveries cause a host of problems, some that affect the golfer immensely that degrades their enjoyment of the game. Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍

@@AskGolfNut thanks for the info. My static Ping scale measurement puts me at 2 degrees upright but, a casual dynamic fit put me at degrees flat. This was off of a mat at The PGA Superstore. I want to order some direct to consumer irons, and I'm totally confused on how to configure them. I'm actually on the way to PGA Superstore today to try Ping green and orange dot and make a decision. Any suggestions?

Yes, get properly custom fitted with a bend profile tester (Swing DNA shaft tool) and then club dynamics measured exactly using either Foresight GC2 with HMT or GCQuad for true accurate information. Then when you have settled on the lie angle (would need to know your swing information to help further), take that information and look on the manufacturers website to see what angle 2 degrees for example is e.g 63.5 degrees and then use that information on the D2C website. It's a minefield of questions and answers so we'd need a quick consultation.... Typing is slow 😊

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Hi Mel, it's equally as important to get lie correct as much as you can, remember though it's much more important to get it right for the handicap golfer with heavy shots being a part of their game. Golfers that strike the ball well or at least have their miss as a low strike, are more looking at lie to dial in corrected ball flight. Depends on the needs of the golfer 👍

If it's the EZ Forged then definitely, if it's the Cast variety I would have to say probably not. They'd go maybe 1 degree but I it's debatable on whether you would want to risk breaking the heads..... 🤔👍

Thank you I have the cast one I guess they don’t say forge on them anywhere so I will have to just be happy with them the way they are now

Just aim 8 yards right 😂👍

@@AskGolfNut Will do

@@tommysnapp get the Mizuno JPX fli hi hybrids, can be bent and mizuno are bending them to 2 degree flatter to match and carry on from my longer irons

I was fitted too for mizuno forged irons - 2 degree flat, and litrally dropped 5 shots over night and 9 shots over 2 month. Playing to 9 handicap now with no swing change or extra practice. All these 10 yrs playing to a 19 handicap....all I needed was a proper fitting to make golf easy

​@@markh9246Curious if you were fitted at a big box store or other?

I was fitted at a place in Melbourne called cool clubs, its a dedicated fitting centre where you hit prov1 balls on a outdoor range range ​@robertcrowe7036

@robertcrowe7036 was hundreds of shafts to choose from and pretty much all the iron heads. Never get fitted in a big chain store. They used trackman and ordered the irons, then i went back when arived and did a gapping session aswell and bench clubs to perfect gaps. Eventually i got rid of the 4,5iron and replaced with cobra tec adjustable hybrids

​@markh9246 That's awesome. I'm in the St. Louis, MO area and haven't the slightest where to go to get fitted. I see Golf Galaxy, GolfTEC and Club Champions. I'm not familiar with the local scene as fairly new into town.

Hi Dave. Contact with Mizuno during lockdown has been difficult. All traffic has had to go through the Area Sales Managers or via a singular email. Monday they are all back to work, with Tuesday being the day updates can be readily had. What are you waiting on?

Personally I would send everything back to Ping. Their own workmanship is tried and tested changing lie angles as a day to day thing. You can change them yourselves (a pro) but Ping have the measuring tools to ensure it's absolutely spot on the required angle also they have the colour die to be able to change the dot on the side of the hozels to represent the new lie change. 👍 If at all possible always get the manufacturers to do the adjustments rather than in the back of a dusty Pro Shop where no one can see what goes on 😊

@@AskGolfNut Thanks Jay, back to Ping they go!

The tour pros are the best in the world at repeating a very near centred strike. Without knowing your strike pattern obviously it would be silly for me to give an answer, but, you will be on that scale somewhere so depending on how good it is, I will be able to determine how you should treat and build your game around using dynamic lie. Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍

Manufacturers change the lie of the club relative to the shaft length change. So as you change club the extra or lesser shaft length will have the equivalent lie required. So unless you do something very funky in your swing and setup between the irons everything will be relative to each other with changing shaft length

@@AskGolfNut Thank you very much!......I just wish you were a little closer...thanks again!

How far are you away?

Marty, from experience (bearing in mind I opt to make no commission on sales as that then is a motivator to sell something) I can say I have made huge differences to people being custom fitted. There may be people that are able to use stock equipment and if that is you then great, but we all come in different shapes and sizes, swing all differently, we all have different shaped, sized things in life and golf equipment is another example. The improvements golfers have made since being custom fitted by my hands alone (obviously can't speak for others) have been substantial. Nearly always is making their misses much better and bringing their averages much closer to target. Static fitting doesn't take individuals swing, stance and posture into account not to mention all dynamic motion. But you are right that a certain percentage (although small) can use stock options. 👍

@@AskGolfNut all i know is, that i got "custom fit" and paid upwards of 200 bucks for a PGA pro to fit me in the EXACT fittings a static fit put me in. i also have a stock set of irons that i play with when i travel and i play just as well with them. i really see no difference. also, swing stance and posture should be fixed with lessons, not with a club fit. plus if static fitting didnt work, then ping wouldnt pride themselves on their color fit and web fit. they have the best static fit system out there! its great!

It's either a freak fitting (as in your swing dynamics with your body measurements mean you are classic standard) or it was a poor fitting. Unfortunately there is no measure of understanding what quality of fitter you are going to receive. It has to be done through word of mouth or going to a RU-vid personality that you have watched and like how they do things. I do feel sorry for people that have had a poor experience as it can be such a positive enlightening session learning about your swing.

@@AskGolfNut i wouldnt say it was a poor fitting. i think its a matter of, i just learned how to play on stock clubs, the custom fit clubs i have came after a decade of playing on stock sizes and ARE subtly more comfortable to play with but by no means does it mean I cant play with the stock ones now. just like in this video, im sure you could take something, maybe not 4° flat, but definitely 2° flatter than you normally play and go play a decent round. i know theres more to a fitting than just that, im just using that as an example.

A static fit is usually a decent approximation but also getting a dynamic lie check using GC Quad or similar is a great way of being precise and it will also reveal swing faults - or as I prefer to refer to them in my swing...swing tendencies. Some golfers are very shaft insensitive, they can play consistently with just about any shaft, some are not. Most amateurs will not have a clue which they are until they have a proper fitting. I am, for example, sensitive to shaft weight, but less sensitive to flex. Having been properly fit I would never go back to buying off the shelf. Yes it costs more but I get more options and as a consequence end up with better clubs which are more suited to me.

Should have started a poll 😊

One of the biggest causes of inconsistencies in amateurs, and by far the largest error either way is found in the Toe down grouping.

Hi Shark, it shouldn't be complicated at all, depending on the iron in question and it's composition. I personally would send them back to the manufacturers to be done as they then take the risk of adjustment and also generally have tighter tolerances for the angles they adjust be it lie or loft. My question would be with such a small change circa 3 yards what is the motivation to go to the expense from a tiny change? Is it to bring them back to a previous known yardage level or for another reason? Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍