This rings so true with me, I suffer from early extension in my swing so I deliver toe down a lot. My miss is always a draw/hook even with 7 irons. I've been fit as 2 degrees upright twice in the past from lie boards. I've just had an Edel fitting and gcquad was used and no lie board I have been fitted as 2 degrees flat! I was confused. This video explains it perfectly. Well done chaps! I hope old skool fitters watch this!!!!
Wish I'd known this a year ago when I bought my new set of irons. Was fitted for 3* upright purely on the feedback from impact tape (very simlair pattern as Ian) and have been hooking alot since then. It especially worse in the shorter irons where Im regulary hooking the PW 25 yards (GW 3 degree flatter and not showing those tendacies). Thanks for the great insights, even though it's abit of sour grapes to do lie adjustments within a year you're 'fitted' for new clubs. I'm sure it will be worth in order to enjoy the game of golf! Wish all fitters were as knowledgable as you guys!
Another very insightful video guys, would be interesting to see your thoughts on Mizuno’s shaft Optimizer 3D, as it also calculates dynamic loft with the use of a gyroscope, see how good it is 👍🏻
I am by no means a club fitter or expert, however I read another comment earlier that I have a question on as well. Could this also just be an issue with the club being too closed at impact now that the lie angle is square (not toe down)? To me, you would adjust lie angle in order to eliminate turf interaction interfering with the club path, and then if you are still hooking the ball then a slight swing/grip adjustment needs to be made. I feel that Ian, being as proficient and athletic of a player as he is, has learned in his own swing to compensate for the toe down position in order to get a desired shot shape. Therefore, once the lie angle is adjusted to be square, he is now hitting a hook rather than a straight ball. All in all, love the content guys! Just wanted your insight on this topic a little more.
I was thinking the same thing. Ball placement, distance standing away from the ball or grip adjustment makes more sense... I can't imagine correcting a swing fault by adjusting the lie angle to dig into the ground? Maybe there's something I'm missing?
This is exactly my question as well. What am I missing? Seems like he’s corrected the club face, but now he’s just closing it at impact. Is there more to this story?
Thank you, Matt and Ian. This is eye-opening. I think I've been mislead. I have a similar situation to Ian. Lifting the handle, hanging back a bit, and flipping. I had my irons fit for lie angle, with the lie board. My sole impact was 2 or 3 degrees towards the toe. So naturally, they made them more upright. I've since struggled with my ball starting further left, and curving further left. Never considered that the fitting might be responsible. Immediately started to diagnose it as a swing issue, and eventually lost my timing. I'm fairly sure now that I should have my lie angle restored, or even flattened further. Thank you so much for this information.
Good topic guys, and I'm leaning towards agreeing with Jim Maclean on this one. I think clubs should evolve over time as your swing changes. But it depends on your goals.... if you want to stay a chopper, then keep them flat. Being so far from the inside (7 degrees) and toe down is a recipe for the lefts for a player of any kind of ability. Fixing that by making the clubs flatter won't allow you to ever get out of that problem. I think the best recipe for you is bend those clubs upright and learn to start the ball left of target and fade back to target ala Hogan, who pretty much matched his shaft plane at address and impact and that was his stock shot. Once you learn how to do that flight then maybe you will be heel down on the lie board and can start bending them flatter. Hope this helps. BTW I'm not a fitter, I'm a player, a thinker on the game and have a degree in Mathematics so not some bloke with a random idea here.
Had a fitting at your Toronto location with a buddy a week or two ago and it was worth the 4hr drive each way! Looking forward to taking the knowledge I gained there and the adjustments made to my clubs to the course in a few weeks! Keep up the great work!!
That is fascinating, and exactly what I experienced at my fittings. Both fitters adjusted me 1-2 degrees upright to center the strike board pattern and I've always fought to prevent too much draw. I bought a set of used clubs that were a degree flat, have been playing them without adjustment and they've been flying much straighter. My wedges, which are still upright, tend to be very prone to hooks.
I know this video is a bit older now. But I found it when I needed to. Was going in for a fitting to gap my wedges better seen this video 2 days before the fitting. I think this for sure has saved my golf game! I had my clubs bent 2 upright when I first got fit. Talked to the pro today about flatting them out and boom I could finally hit my lines with out making a drastic swing change!
Great video. My first and only fitting was off a lie board. I never felt confident on that fitting, and sold my very expensive irons with a loss just months later to get something off the rack.
Hi Ian & Matt I was fitted for two different brands on two separate days one out side with trackman & the other inside with GC quad outside the fitter recommended 1deg flat & inside the same 1 deg flat inside he also used the lie board to just check & it also came out as 1deg flat. The shaft recommended by the outside fitter was AMT red regular & inside Nippon 950GH. My current irons are the ping G Max with Standard ping Shaft’s.
I just ordered a set of mizuno jpx 900 tour 2* upright and OMG I'm way out in left field. Great relevant video as always. You guys need a show on the golf channel.
Do you suggest getting every iron adjusted the same amount or should each club be tested if possible. I heard somewhere that higher loft clubs will end up more offline than a low loft club, is that true
@@beradbro In another video they said that each iron should be fit indivually due to the changes in swing from let's say 9 iron to 4 iron. So one may be 1* upright and another may be 'standard'.
Great video fellas. To prove the point I took my Irons into my local American Golf store today to check my lie angle, and my results with the tape were the same. I was 3 degrees toe down but my ball flight was beautiful and where I wanted it. So the advice I was given was not to change the lie angle as my face to path etc was spot on. This video just confirms what I was told today, a comforting thought
So my 'home-made' way of a black sharpie line on a ball is out of the window! Ball flight first before lie angle. Wow! Ian that's blown my mind but your thought pattern makes sense. Back to scratch when it comes to my thoughts on correctly fitted irons. Most probably the most eye opening golf video I have seen. Thanks Ian and Matty.
Where was this 2 years ago when I was fiited into a set of Cobra F7's. Standard loft and lie by the lie board and ever since I picked the clubs up nothing but huge hooks with the 5 & 6 irons. This again is an awesome video that explains the how and why of golf!
I knew I was right. I keep telling this guys my clubs need to be flattened out, I keep over drawing the ball and they’ve given me 2* up on the set, but of course the pro here keeps telling me it my swing. I need to come see you guys all the way from NC. Maybe this June
Great video. Perfect debunking of a popular misconception. The only caveat I would add is that there are limits to using lie angle to fix ball flight issues. Too much can put people in awkward and uncomfortable setup positions. If it's more than +/- 2 degrees or so, it's time for a swing fix not just an equipment adjustment.
Wish I could have seen this 18 months ago! I was fitted using a lie board and ended up in 2 degree up irons which I just found awful. I was back using my old clubs and selling the new ones about 4 months later - so couldn't agree more! Great informative video again - Thanks.
Been custom fitted for Ping 4 years ago, Srixon 2 years ago, both off lie boards, both put me in standard. Went for a Titleist fitting yesterday, after he’d found the head and shaft the lad said “ is that your shot, always left of target?” He stood behind me with every shot, then he tried the same head but 2 degrees flat, all of a sudden, everything was down target line. Came home, watched this and your lie angle video, went back today to try them again, they’ve now been ordered. I’m astounded at this 😮 Just goes to show, even the folk you trust to do the right job for you make an arse of it.
Thanks for sharing this video! Explains what happened a few years back when I was improperly fit (due to lie board). Went from 1* Up to 4* Flat (standard shot is a draw, with heel contact). Lost my standard shot for 2 years (thinking I would be able to correct it due to being a 1.2 at the time), before being fit elsewhere.Thanks for all the great work you do on the channel!
I've had a similar experience...based on lie board and tape, the fitter wanted to put me in 3* flat irons! When I tested with a proper launch monitor somewhere else with the same irons we saw that although I setup to the ball toe up I dynamically returned the club to neutral with my swing and so really only needed 1* flat at most!
Spot on guys. I had a fitting with a mizuno fitter using the lie board. Had the same toe down delivery, but the ball flight was straight to slight draw. I was fully expecting the fitter to recommend that I order my MP18's 3 degrees upright, but he told me to trust the ball flight and order them at standard. I followed his advice and came away a happy customer.
Every video of this nature educates the customer with more information to define their own needs, ask the right questions, and understand ball flight characteristics. This helps us choose the right equipment and work more intelligently with a fitter. Thanks.
Ian, I followed your advice on that and what a difference now in ball contact, ball flight and distance. 2 degrees up it's all I needed. Thanks for making my life easier on the golf course 😎 You guys are awesome!
I like what you guys do. If you really want to understand golf fitting info , if start with ball flight when looking at lie angle. Spin rates on drivers start with impact on face not what spin number is. I only say these things because way to many of us have been told wrong , before TXG came along. They have shared the full facts before you spend your next thousand dollars on clubs. Thanks guys for helping us play better.
This video makes me more excited for my fitting appointment than any other. I’ve built my golf swing off of a fitting of +1 inch 2* up. Ive always over hooked the ball and start line is always left of what I’m looking at. I’ve always felt like I was blocking the ball and couldn’t release the club head or the ball would dive left. Great video guys! See you in May Ian.
I definitely raise the handle through impact and would hit 10 yard fades with 5i-3i but a 2* upright lie change has me hitting straight to small draws. Definitely matters how one delivers the club face through impact and isn't just about lie angle alone. Great stuff once again Gents!
Word, WOW! I was just fitted for a set of JPX921F and I was thinking to myself where is the Lie Board? 12 years ago when I was fitted that is what they used! Awesome knowledge shared, thank you! VMAN
Yea me too, I was fit by Wilson with a lie board when I didn't know better and while I loved the feel of the clubs, they were hook machines until I took them to Ian.
Tristan Bexton I was lucky to know a good club builder when I was young who bent all my clubs flat to help fight a hook and haven’t changed in 10+ years
It is incredible what Ian knows and the content Ian, Matt, and TXG provide to us golfers! Thank you for your content and wow incredible. I remember getting fit with lie boards when I first got into golf, amazing seeing this video! I mean how can you argue with those results! Thanks for another great video!
Been catching up on old videos and this is a great one, my first experience was with a lie board and was fitted 2 upright, fast forward 2-3 years and I wanted new clubs so went to American Golf who offered cash for my old bats, told the "sales" guy big mistake what my previous club set ups were (2 upright), didn't realise until lately how bad this was coupled with the fact i was fitted using range balls!. I'd truly be at your door in the morning if you had a fitting studio in the UK, however i'm hoping to book a session at Silvermere Golf shortly (waiting for new JPX921 to arrive) and hope the experience will be better. keep it up with the brilliant content guys, love the channel!
I had a lie fitting the other day with no launch monitor. He gave me a club that was 2° up. Felt better, probably had an amazing divot, but couldnt see where the ball went. That being said, I have another fitting scheduled next week with Trackman. Ball flight is most important. I'm just happy I didnt buy after the first lie board fitting, I hope this video helps others avoid lie-board only fitting. Great job, guys!!
Great illustration of my question about toe down Tuesday morning. Very excited about getting the new wedges. Can't thank Ian and Matt enough for this type of insight.
Great channel. You guys do a great job. I love your take on the game and the way to think about your equipment. I look forward to your videos daily! Keep it up
Golf’s Myth Busters, biggest thing here is a get a knowledgeable fitter you trust that is as passionate about your tour as much as you are, in that there is value. TXG channel on RU-vid great value, thanks.
Just went back and saw this one from a year ago. Mind blower and could be why I hit it left so often... lie board had me 3-4 up, but now ball goes left.
This videa answered alot of questions ive beem having lately. Im a tall golfer(6’4”) and have always been told i needed upright clubs. I have really struggled with pull draws, and making swing changes seemed like the only fix. Im definately a handle raiser. Im bendin my set flat asap. Thanks guys.
Can you do a video discussing sharpie on the ball? I recently tried two clubs. One was 2 degrees flat and one was standard. My sharpie mark was straight on both. I compensated at address or something. Felt like there was no validity to the test
I just got a pit in my stomach while watching this video. I'm not near as prolific a ball striker as Ian, but this really hit home for me. I swing in-to-out and I'm a handle lifter. I was fitted about two years ago with indoor Trackman and aid of a lie board. I was set up with a set of green dot Ping irons (upright 2.25*). For two years I've been hitting these ugly hooking iron shots. No matter what I tried I couldn't get the thing to go straight unless I really worked hard and took a bunch of swing speed off. I thought, well there's obviously me and there's something wrong with my swing and I just need to work harder at it. I feel like after watching this that I've been swinging my irons with one hand tied behind my back. What an eye-opener. I'm looking at plane tickets to Toronto right now.
Mad isn't it! I almost bought a full set of new titleist irons 2 degrees upright... luckily I got a crappy club changed and it was awful. But I did think it was me initially....
I can relate to your experience also. I’ve been playing for almost 10 years with equipment that isn’t even close to what I should be using. As soon as my swing improved I started going left. I would then resort to flipping to keep the ball going straight. As soon as I went 2 degrees flat everything went back to where I was when I was a 3 handicap.
@@peteratherton897 I'm heading there this weekend! I'll share the results when I get back. I'm looking through some old fitting videos and prepping myself mentally for the experience. Update coming shortly!
Brock Peterson Wow! This weekend, you lucky lucky man, I’m sure Ian and the gang will sort you out, I’d love to be doing what you’re doing, I’m a bit far away tho, Lancashire, England, enjoy and good luck, try not to spend too much money haha 👍🏌️♂️
Guys awesome stuff again here! I think your "fitting" series helps everyone out. Both fitters and players. I can now understand what my "static" fit numbers are vs my "dynamic" fit numbers. My last fit was a line drawn on the ball using -1-degree flat lie angle club based on "static" measurements and I remember not even caring about where the ball went after I hit it. The main concern by the fitter was looking at the tape on the face to see where the line was. Luckily, I haven't bought anything yet because I really went just wanting to get a better understanding of what I would want my clubs specs to be. When I go to get fit again someday, which will probably be when I purchase something, I now know what I didn't know before. Thanks again!
What a video lads, been told i'll be 2/3 upright after the lie board test but it just doesn't sit well with me.My miss with my standard lie and length irons is always left (well struck) and have always wanted to try a flatter iron to see how that goes instead. Keep up the good work, great channel.
Fabulous expose on the dangers of (best intentions) uninformed 'expertise' giving poor outcomes. Just 3 days ago I used a lie board. It showed I need a 2 degree flatter lie. But I naturally fade my irons and my miss is a power draw 40 meters wide of the target. If I'd flattened my lie, my fades would have become slices and misses would be the only good shots I hit. Thank goodness I came across this video. It has saved me money and a heap of future angst. Thanks for another insightful and educational video guys. I just wish I was a tad closer to CA than the bottom of the planet :(
I did that lie tape test (about 30 years ago) and the mark was perfectly in the middle every time. So, nothing done for the lie angle, but I was scooping the ball and hitting high weak push fades. Just shows how much tech and tech knowledge has improved over the years.
Guys, I've been suspect of the lie board for quite some time Thanks for putting analytics to the mystery. Looking forward to seeing you in September for my fitting
This is a great video. I just recently had my irons adjusted flat due to another video you guys had showing someone pulling the ball Left. I'm stuck in a situation where I live in a rural area and I don't have the time to Drive close to an hour one way to have swing Lessons.
This is going to be interesting and love how you guys are thinking out of the box for new content. Heres my perspective i think alot of clubfitters get wrong is building an entire set of clubs based on lie angle results of only one club. I believe that each club should be fitted with the lie board to get the most from your fitting.
I agree with you. I have my long irons more upright than standard. Short irons are 2* flat. First saw this with Stewart Cink. His long irons were 4*upright, mid irons 2*up, short irons 1* up.
That's interesting John I was going to say/ask something along the same lines. I notice that with my Irons I always have a tendency to hit my longer Irons left to right and as I come down the set I move to neutral and then in my short Irons I pull them left with a definite heel strike. So I was going to ask if an Iron set could be customised with a variable lie angle (Upright in the longer Irons and then Flat in the short Irons)? Any thoughts Guys?
Lie angles should be assessed on each club, absolutely. A player may need to be more upright in the long irons and flatter in the wedges (for example) to get the best performance throughout the set
Fantastic video this is why people should get fitted at a facility like yours or similar. I have just been fit at precision golf in the uk and the only time the board was used was for my wedge fitting. Well done again guys keep up the good work!
Super interesting! I've seen so many people who have been fitted on a lie board.... scary now I know. And yup I play regular lie with a draw shape and handle raiser here too. Had a club bent upright before and thought I was having an off day at the range. This explains it!
Very good info! I think I’m starting to see why my iron play has turned into hitting big hooks. My lie angles are a couple degrees more upright than what I was playing!
I wish I had seen this video before I got "fitted" by Golfsmith. I was a very good ball striker playing standard L/L/L and they wanted to put me in 1" long 2 up, we compromised on 1/2" long 2 up. I played for nearly 10 years with these specs across 2 different sets of irons. The other day, I hit a few shots with my friends irons which are standard L/L/L and found I could hit irons again. Just bent my set back to standard and magically, the trend had continued. In two rounds since the change, I've had 13 and 11 GIR, when my avg for the last 300 rounds is 8. I didn't suddenly learn how to hit an iron shot. Jim McClean is WRONG. Furthermore, the bad fitting was a band aid for a poor swing plane. Great video guys.
Great video and insight on the impact of lie angle on face angle. Technology is now your friend. Using data from GC quad to give you ball flight, dynamic lie, speed, launch, etc.and having loft/lie machine to fine tune club fitting, versus depending on lie board alone. Hmmm, so where would you want to go for your fitting.
This is your best video yet. I always got fit at "standard", but continued to hit the ball R for a LH golfer. 5-6 years ago I bought a basic loft/lie machine and started bending an old blade set down flat until I hit a straighter ball flight. After trial and error I landed about 3 degrees flat and have a much better ball flight with the ball staying slightly L of center. This allowed me to pivot better and dropped me down to low single digits since I took away my big miss. This confirms I am not crazy! Thanks! What driver/woods/hybrids are the best to get if I like flatter lie angles? I find these clubs continue to be the most difficult for me to fit since I like flatter lie angles and they look so upright.
This is great information and I will veryify. After 17 years of playing my clubs 2+ upright (67 degree SW), I had (for lack of a better term) an electronic fitting. I had midsized Golf Pride Plus4 grips installed to keep me from going left. Finally Shawn my fitter verified that I should be1/2" long, but standard lie. After the adjustments were made, I shot 71 for the first time in 18 years...coincidence?
I did a lie board test one time in my life with ping. I hit a 2 flat, a standard, and a 2 up club. I marked each club perfectly flat on the lie board indicating each one was perfect fit for me. I knew right away when they gave me a club that looked flat I compensated to get it to sit flush. So I bent over more and stayed low and stood further away. The upright club I stood taller and kept handle high. Each one I hit basically identical shot and shape. For me I went with comfort. I felt most comfortable with the 2 up. Been playing that for 6 years now. Can still hit a flat club good no problem but I feel way too squatty.
OLDGOLD Yeah ive played quite a bit so was aware of it. But just pointing out that there is for sure a mental or visual adjustment that players could potentially make without them even realizing they are. Ideally the player swings the club identical each time but there for sure can be players that react to how the club looks and make adjustments off that.
I have the same swing tendencies that Ian has. I was fitted for 3 degrees upright and it was a disaster. I played my JPX 850 forged for 1 season and ended up trading them in. My next fitting was was for 2 degrees flat and I really started to enjoy the game more. My miss is still a 20 yard hook, but its more manageable. Homerun vid!
This makes SO much sense to me. Was fit into 2* upright and have struggled with pull hooks ever since. I hit the ball solid still but it starts left and then draws like normal.
Great points here. I just got fitted 4 days ago, and while he did the lie board test, it wasn't a primary focus. My session went a bit like this: Warm up Asked where my misses usually were (right) Tracked about 20 shots with the GC Quad. Used tape to see where I normally struck the ball (toe) Lie board test and determined a 2 degree up adjustment was recommended Tested about six different shafts with the same head adjusted up 2 degrees. Observed ball flight with each shaft, and we determined that my stock shaft was the best one for me (which is not normal apparently). I can tell you for sure that using the club at the fitting with the lie angle adjusted made all the difference. Shots were much straighter, and I gained a bit of yardage as well. I took my clubs over to get adjusted immediately, and played a round of golf. I was shocked at how well I was hitting them. For some, the lie angle is all that needs to be adjusted, but I agree that the GC Quad is invaluable to dig deeper into the analytics of the swing and ball flight to determine an accurate result. I plan on getting fitted periodically as I am improving and I fully understand that my swing will undergo slight changes as I gain more confidence!
This information is just golden. One factor in this is having someone nearby who has a GC Quad or GC2 with HMT. All the fitters local to me are either Trackman or GC2 without HMT. Because of this I have only been fit on lie boards to date. I'm fairly lucky though and have a lowish handle.
EXACTLY what i am struggling with.🙌 i am a upright swinger. thats who i am biomechanical! no changing that! my miss is an pull hook🤦♂️. just like Ian. thats why i always liked to play a flat lieangle. recently i ve had bend my irons 3 degrees upright and am making flatter divots and better contact. Now i am working on my swing to quancel left out. i am forcing my self to make better swings and IT WORKS. my ballstriking is better than its ever been. more speed, more compression. so there are two sides to this story. The quick fix; lie accommodating the ballflight. The long-term improvement in swing; fit for lie-angle Iam also has a good swing, with speed. like me his improvement opportunity's is more down AOA/ more compression and less arm/club roll trough impact. Keep working on it mate! 👍
Wow this is scary..... on the ping measurement I am a white dot...... They would be hook machines.... Now I would not go beyond blue..... now using Cleveland Launcher CBX on a standard lie which go straight.... got rid of my blue/yellow dot ping G400/ G irons which were hook machines!!!
I got fit in 1996 with a lie board. It was my second year playing tour golf. EVERY solid hit mid-long iron for about 6 months was hooked. Grabbed a friends irons 2* flat and INSTANTLY fixed!
I've gotten quite an education on lie angles over the past month while testing clubs. I really thought the lie board was the baseline of club fitting, but it is only a reference tool. I agree with Ian here that the combination of swing path and club geometry have to be taken into account. While 3 degrees toe down may sound like a huge amount, if you think about the distance from the center of the club face out 1" towards the toe the drop is only .052" or 1.3mm (tangent of 3 degrees). On a hard lie board that is something but when hitting off turf it's practically nothing. If they still made the flat bottom blades of the 60's it would be a concern, but todays clubs are designed with a radius around the sole that make them very versatile for a variety of club swing paths.
Watching this video should be a prerequisite for all club fitters. Also interesting to note that Ian is hitting the Mizuno MP-18 SC. I want to see Ian hit that 4 iron Mizuno HMP too.
Isn’t there a danger that if you fit around a swing flaw, you’re just kidding yourself that you’re hitting it straight? Additionally, what happens when you correct that swings flaw? Your fit is no longer correct…
You guys do very informative videos - really appreciate them! However, there's something perhaps I'm missing here. The metrics at 8:54 show the lie angle as being nearly technically ideal (almost level at impact). However, the shot result was WAY left - a big hook. How would it not be a big hook when the club path is 6.1* in to out, and the face is shut by 9.1*? Isn't having a toe-down angle of almost 5* simply compensating for what, all things being equal, is a legit hook swing and impact position? One might get away with a 4-5* toe down impact position on courses with soft turf, however in a place like Texas with really hard turf a toe-down impact would result in the turf grabbing the toe and snapping the face open. Anyway, it just seems like those metrics clearly explain the big left shot, and it's not due to the lie angle being level - the overly flat lie angle on earlier shots is just a compensation offsetting the inside-out, closed face impact. Please let me know if I'm missing something obvious! :-) In my mind, having optimal turf interaction comes from having a lie angle that allows the sole to hit the ground equally heel to toe, and if the ball is then hooking or slicing that's a result of club path and face angle not being reasonably close to square. It just seems like you're advocating a compensating lie angle to offset a significant inside-out and closed face swing/impact, and while I totally understand why and how you're doing that, it ignores turf interaction as if it is not important. When I lived in Ky and Ohio, you could get away with that. Where I live now, in Texas with hard, sticky turf, if your irons don't contact the ground level, you pay a big price for that! Let me know if there's something I'm missing... I just know that when I take a divot with an iron that is too flat, I can see the result in the depth of the divot on the toe side, and it negatively impacts the shot result significantly. At any rate, this is very informative - thank you!
its nice to have confirmation about what i have been dealing with...ive been hooking `shots with my irons likes crazy...i have to hold off shots to keep them straight. my next set, i hope to find fitters as good as TXG
One of the most interesting topic. I'm really surprised to see this video just a day after my friend fussing over lie angle and decided to have his irons adjusted. He seems to achieve good results just like Matt. Testing was done with a lie board on range without launch monitor. He was hitting a few and was like oohhh and ahhhh. BUT then I decided to hand him an iron that has not been adjusted but he still hit it just fine. I decided to not say anything and let it be as long as he's happy. So yeah, very interesting indeed. In the end I think it's about confidence influenced by a few can of beers. LOL Great video guys.
Great demonstration of how a lie board fitting could be problematic. The average golfer would compensate for over drawing the ball which could result in causing swing problems!
fully agree , especially in this case . ball flight first . fitters should know the lie board isn't everything . but fitting is also about giving the customer the experience of a fitting, making him feel like hes being fitted , nothing wrong with using a lie board , if the fitter knows what hes doing . but i get what you saying about demo day fitters ,maybe they paint a bad light on lie boards .lie angle eg . scenario . player plays most of his golf on a firm golf course and he scoops the ball badly and upward angle of attack on his irons .. the player is toe down . because of these factors he wil miss low on the face and a lot of the time very thin shots . as the leading edge cannot get under the ball because of this swing and firm turf conditions . lie board in this case nice way to explain and visually show the customer whats happening . turf conditions play a roll with lie angle to an extent . for me it adds value to the fitting when asking the customer what turf conditions he plays on mostly when looking at his angle of attack and going through lie angles section of a the fitting . this type of case will lead into the correct sole design or sole thickness for this player . but always going back to ball flight . do all factors correlate to what is best for that player .
I've always maintained using a lie board only shows where you're hitting the club on the bottom. It really has no reflection of anything regarding grip, dynamic lie angle, swing - down the line/out to in/in to out. It may tell you more about addressing the ball relative to the distance of your centre of mass and the swing compensations when too close or far to the ball. There are so many compensations one can make with the club and the body that fitting with a lie board you get the correct results by accident or serendipity. I've been golfing over 40 years now...my clubs are on average 2" over standard, use a separated grip, and can use practically any club you give me. I can make the compensations in my hands because of more control on the club. For the most part I wouldn't recommend a separated grip for everybody, but just to point out all the compensations one can make that would confound such an ancient method of evaluating clubs for a golfer. Trying on golf clubs is like trying on underwear...it's intimate, all your flaws are shown but it has to be the best fit for your money. Just sayin'.
I was recently fitted and had the same thing happen to me. It was really stressful. I thought I had wasted a lot of money on new clubs that I couldn't hit. It took me a little while to figure out what the problem was. I had my clubs re-bent back to standard and it was a total game changer. When I had them fixed I found out some of the clubs were not bend to the requested line from the fitting. It would be a good idea to have them check when you pick up your new clubs. The tech also told me I need to have the lofts and lies checked every 6 months depending on how much you play. They said forged clubs are softer and have a tendency to move more than cast
I think the lie angle should be neutral still. Too much extra variables throughout the irons and wedges with an off angle. It makes bounce less useful and out of deep rough or sand delivering toe down or up could twist the face much easier when getting caught a little. The adjustments in swing are minimal with the correct lie angle to hit straight again that it's worth it to switch and remove that variable. Only a stubborn player is unwilling to let go of a faulty swing to improve in the long run.
Yep this is spot on. I ordered a set of irons Green dot based on lie board information and had to send them back to Ping for adjusting bc I was hooking the pants off my iron shots
Great video, I'm sure the new tech has improved the fitting process. People played good golf in the past and got good fits when the lie board was the standard method. I think both technologies should be used to find a matching result. I agree ball flight should be the major factor in making adjustments, true ball flights not just a computer similated representation of a shot's flight. Nobody questions the GC quad or Trackman data now, there was a time I'm sure no one questioned the lie board.
That is super interesting. I learnt a lot there. I was studying for the PGA exam 20 years ago, and the lie board was so important for every fitting. After many many years away from the game, I'm back at it now and relearning (purely out of interest) how fiting is done. I need to get myself on GC Quad I think. Not so easy where i live now, so do you have any other basic tips on how to measure a correct lie angle approximately? Obviouly that would be difficult without something like GC quad. I'm trying to self fit, which is not exactly easy, but no other options right now. I love this channel so much. The technical side of golf fascinates me.
