His argument makes sense but it falls apart when he goes on about rewarding teams. These are individual accolades. A lesser defensive player should not be entitled to win an award because he team is a higher seed. Not to say that Gobert is the lesser player, but when he starts talking about Chet like if he should still be in the conversation, thats when I start to disagree.
In 20 years they'll rename DPOY trophy the Victor Wembanyama Defensive Player of the Year award. Also just boiling down to pure entertainment factor he's making defense more exciting than offense.
Right?! They keep mentioning impacting winning like it means something. He has a HUGE impact on his team. They're just so bad that it doesn't translate to wins. It's very clear that he elevates his team's from well below last place to 6th overall. If his team was a little better it could move from 24th worst to the number 1 defense! It's the exact same level of impact just shifted upwards. That shouldn't matter. Impact is impact whether or not it results in wins.
@@Langustaaa Spurs are also the youngest team by far so as they add players and just grow up it’s gonna be scary. They have good players they just dont bring it every night. So once they get just average Wemby will look like an all time great
@@XxVenom33xX nope, where is gobert in steals and blocks, not even top five in blocks category where he does best. Wemby desrve that award if we are solely focusing on DEFENSIVE PLAYER not DEFENSIVE TEAM of the year
@@kukublof5057 lol what? if that so then why is wemby getting blocks when his with the same five who cant guard anyone while his substitute center zach collins cant with the same five? Vic's blocks can be blame only on his speed, agility, length and reflexes
The question is: when Rudy is off the pitch, what's his team's defensive rating compared to when he's on the pitch? it's probably very close. On the other hand, Wembanyama takes the spurs from last to 6th. That's what we call "making an impact".
In the 2 games that Rudy didn't play this year, the Twolves actually had a defensive rating of 105.6, which would not only still be no.1 in the league it is better than their regular rating of 108.6. Granted it is a small sample size, but if we take last years stats without Gobert the team posts a 113.4 rating, which would still be around 8th this year.
I can take discussion about DPOY based on arguments, I can't take discussion abou DPOY based on personal bias. Rudy is excelent defender, but this year Wemby show next level of defense.
I get what he is saying but I still don't agree with him. Let's say you play for a team that has a lot of good rebounders. If you are also a good rebounder, your numbers are going to be low because you are competing with other people on your team to rebound the ball. And if you are on a bad rebounding team your numbers are going to be high. Which he is saying that's why Victor's numbers are high. The thing is if you watch Victor play, it's clear he is about to be the new standard for defense. How do you not give him DPOY?
Now that you explained, I kind of get his point. Still, the fact the team's defensive stat jumps from 20 something to 6 with just inserting Victor in makes a solid case for his DPOY because it makes his team better.
Spurs defense is historically-worst when Victor isn't on the floor...and becomes top 6 this year when he is on the court. Wemby would make any team defensively better if you put him on any team. That kind of jump would be having the biggest impact on the team.
This is exhausting, Wemby on the wolves with the current stats would be win the award? Rudy on the Spurs, would he win the award? Why is a DPOY based on wins? That’s not what the award is about
RJ is usually on point but his take on Wemby not getting a DPOY is a weird hill to die on. I cannot think of a better defender this year especially in the beginning of the season when it felt like it was Gobert
Wemby's blocks are a testament to his skill; they're not random acts but rather smart, aggressive plays. They stem from opponents underestimating him. This is a team on the rise, far from being dismissible-watch out for them. Wemby is charting a course we've never seen before. It's time to move beyond past paradigms; the nature of awards is evolving. the dynamics here are different. All of Wemby's former coaches concur that his teammates had to adapt to playing alongside someone as unique as Victor. He's a game-changer, redefining the norms. To critique his impact with statements like "If Wemby wasn't Wemby" is to fundamentally misunderstand his influence.
A ROOKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree, him blocking the other team and not letting them score is “winning basketball” just because they don’t win doesn’t mean he’s not impacting them winning when literally every win they have gotten has been with him on the floor. Watch when they get blown out tonight vs the kings with no Wemby, the difference he makes is insane.
Also Victor has to play both sides of the court. He has the be not just the best defensive player for the Spurs but the best offensive player. If he was in Rudy's spot and just focusing on defense he would have a lot more energy to expend on that end. But Wemby has to worry about blocking the guy, leading the offense, pick and roll and then shooting the ball and then he's got to do that again every play. Its ridiculous to think Rudy is better than Wemby on defense
Kinda gross how emotionally invested rj was against wemby as dpoy. He definitely deserves it. And out of nowhere rj brings up chet for no reason. Who gaf about team position when it comes to the individual, especially when wemby affects his team so much. Working at espn must be a soul suck
By RJ's logic Josh giddey is a better offensive player than Luka Doncic cuz of his record. The numbers when wemby is on the floor to when he is off should be enough to tell you his impact. And lets not pretend like Chet doesn't have an MVP caliber player on his team as well as J-dub who was 2nd in roty last year.
I like Jefferson but this is a terrible take. If you actually took a second to watch a game, you'd realize he gets blocks from covering an entire side of the floor. He recovers quicker than any player in the league. It has nothing to do with bad defenders feeding him blocks, bcs that would insinuate the players would be shading the offensive player towards Wemby, which would NOT be considered bad defense. So which one is it?
Bro I’m honestly losing respect for Richardson now, all his Wemby takes the entire year have been ass and this one takes the cake for being the worst, his entire argument is “I don’t care about stats or how good Wemby is, all I care is that a player from a good defensive team wins it” stupid
even Thunder fans agreed that since january, wemby have been better then chet and RJ still on chet? Wtf lol Even JJ redick came out with an apology, this is insanity lol
One thing I noticed is every ex nba players thinking process is wired to validate they’re own career/ roles So rich favors role players that look good cus another hall of famers makes them look good Vs just the better player
Sooooo…. When we gave mvp to OKC Westbrook two years in a row and his team didn’t do anything each year, you were cool with that, right??? Come on!!! This kid is doing it for the whole organization and that is beyond good.. He earned both awards
53:30 : if you think about it, it shouldn't impact winning. It should impact defense. If you have the best defense of the league but a way crappier offense, that results in not winning, you still have the best defense. You don't need to reward winning, because winning is its own reward, and is already rewarded anyway. And yes, I'm French and completely sold for the big V 😊
Richard just take an L it's Defensive "PLAYER" Of The Year not Defensive "Team" Of The Year. Dudes sounding like a Wemby and Spurs hater more and more.
Richard likes hearing himself. Shanon was spot on when he asked, "Who's the most impactful defensive player," which Richard refused to answer. The most impactful defensive player should win DPOY, I don't understand why Richard is struggling with something so straightforward. The irony of the "team" being the deciding factor for an individual award, make it make sense.
"I am not giving Defensive Player of the Year because he has a lot of blocks" - Rich buddy that's kinda what the award is about. He doesn't just get a lot of blocks. He gets significantly more blocks than anyone else, while being challenged less than everyone. And He gets a lot of steals.
Of course he does! The numbers don't lie... the fact his team is losing doesn't mean he cannot be the defensive player of the year. For MVP I'd say the standings of the team do matter much more, but for DPOY I think it should be given to the actual best defensive player, regardless of rankings. Wemby DPOY of 2024!
By his logic, the only viable candidate for DPOY is the best defensive player on the team in first place. All the logic he used to discount Wemby could be used to discount anyone on 10th, 6th, or 2nd place teams as well.
Wemby is indeed the best defender, it's an individual award. You can have the last team in a soccer championship, and the top scorer in the championship, the title goes to him, and that's perfectly normal. He can't play for five players at once.
He should be a rookie and DPOY. Gobert's gameplay is one-dimensional; his defensive effectiveness dwindles once he's removed from his comfort zone. Conversely, Victor isn't confined to a stationary zone; he adapts dynamically, displaying performance levels not characteristic of a rookie but rather akin to a top 20 or even top 15 player this season. While some may argue that the Spurs aren't contenders-and indeed, no single player can guarantee victory-a glance at the scoreboard during Victor's customary rest periods reveals this truth. Consequently, team victories shouldn't sway the voting process. Instead, the decisive factor should be the defensive pressure exerted by a player while on the court.
There's a First time for everything Richard. You can't penalize this guy for being drafted to a tanking organization. They change their line ups every game just to lose. & he still wills the Spurs to 6th in defensive efficiency with him and last without him. THAT'S A HUGE IMPACT! What more do you want him to do? Be Allen Iverson in his rookie season and take a bum team to the finals? He's maximizing what he has
Ay just saying much love to Margo and Channing and all yaw family and friends, keep fighting and climbing to elevation with no excuses, a legendary father is worth far more than a legendary athlete and it really takes a village, everybody matters
RJ is just trying to justify his personal bias while ignoring statistical facts. Chet and Rudy are both great players, but Vic is out producing both while having one hand tied behind his back because of his team's current limitations. Opposing teams solely gameplan around Wemby when they play the Spurs, and he still puts up historic numbers despite this.
When u argue with someone abt the level of a player, how good he is, and the only response they give u is bringing back the team record, there is a problem. And they can't even realize that. This argument isn't valuable, or we should redefine for what reasons we deserve those awards. I'm """fine""" with the idea of not giving an award for a player bc of his team record, but then we won't be able to say "this player is THE BEST defenser/player/rookie of this year bc of his award". we'll always have to put things in consideration, remembering he got his award in part bc of his team, and to only bc of his talent. And imo I found this less interisting... bc I'd like to see rewarded the best PLAYER of each category (Team having their own awards is a good thing too ofc) Bc sorry but rightnow we live in a world where apparently no matter how good you are as a player, no matter how good you play, how you are the best player on the court, some one will tell you "no, you are not the best player/defenser/rookie because your team suck". Not be able to see the problem and the need to change things when you say that sound crazy to me.
Jerry West won Finals MVP while being in the losing team. That showed how great he was despite losing. Same with Wemby. It's regrettable that Wemby is on a losing team, but he's defensively greater than Gobert! And it's not even close!
It seems that Richard Jefferson has something against the San Antonio Spurs. His commentary is biased against anything involving San Antonio. He has also been against Tim Duncan.
wemby's defense impacted the 13 wins they currently have. Who else can the replace wemby with and get the same impact? Regarding the last place not getting DPOY thing, what if for the sake of arguement, they were first in the league in defense when he's on the court?
Yes there is a team criteria to be considered in the def player of the year voting but when an individual posting incredible and unprecedented numbers : leading the league in blocks by a landslide and top 15 in steals (number 1 in the center position) , that should be able to break the rules. Yes never in history that the award is given to a player in a losing team, but never in history have we seen a player like Wemby.
That DPOY bebate was EXCELLENT! Both guys gave equally great and legitimate arguments. YES. But, personally, I would give it to AD. He dominates on the defensive end, that's a fact.
great episode as always! I always LOL everytime I listen to this one. Probably the most underrated NBA podcast out there. QUESTION FOR CHANNING FRYE! WE are going to Portland for my friend's bachelor party - do you have a local favorite recommendation of a restaurant to go to?
I think the argument should be that during the last 15 games Wemby's team is 1st defensive rating when he is on the court and they are 25th or something when he is off!
If a player takes a team from last to 6th defensively, then that player is impacting winning. Is it enough to completely lead to a win? Maybe not, but it has impact.
I get richards point cause if this was about mvp no matter how many points you average or how good you are if the team is last you are not winning it is an individual award but the teams performance influences it
I see a bit of both arguments for Wemby winning DPOY. A rookie winning DPOY (not sure when the last time that has happened, if ever) would essentially be calling this kid the future greatest defensive player of all time or at least implying it. From Richards point: if your defense is so good, shouldn't you be winning more? Yes with the on the court/off the court numbers they are nearly top 5 with him. But maybe being 1 or 2 would really solidify his value. Giving a rookie major awards like MVP or DPOY does feel like massive implications are being given. So I lean more in Rich's favor. However if he doesn't win this year, he should likely win it as a sophomore. Third year at the latest.
As an individual award, the comparison should be against individuals, not teams. What are the top offensive players numbers against the league vs against Wemby? Look at the individual vs individual numbers. That is the definition of PLAYER AWARD! “If Wemby wasn’t Wemby” thats why you consider him!! He is changing the very landscape of the league defensively! How is Richard not understanding that this is not an award to the team??? Like Dejounte Murray on the all-star team. The Spurs record did not penalize him.
In the 2,067 minutes Rudy Gobert has played this season, the Wolves have a 106.4 DEF RTG with Gobert on the court (which is the best DEF RTG in the NBA for players who average at least 25 MIN/GM and played at least 40 games this season (ironically, Mike Conley ranks 2nd best and Anthony Edwards 4th best under the same criteria - Donovan Mitchell ranks 3rd best lol). In the 977 minutes with Gobert OFF the court, the Wolves have a 106.8 DEF RTG (so Minnesota is still a great defensive team with him on the bench this season). For the Spurs, they have a 112.2 DEF RTG with Wemby on the court, and a 119.8 DEF RTG with Wemby OFF the court. For players who have played at least 40 games and have been the defender within 3 feet of the opposing player, Gobert has defended the 4th most FG attempts in the NBA, with a Defended FG% of only 42.9%, while Wemby has defended the 15th most FG attempts with a Defended FG% of 46.4%. If you ask me, I'll just split the difference and have Anthony Davis win DPOY, but I'm just being biased 😄
richard: what’s the defensive rating when victor is playing with the whole team? allie: 6th best in the nba richard: but they’re 24th when you account for the minutes he doesn’t play allie and channing: 😑
The "They don't win though" argument is a bit silly cause offense is a bigger part than defense this year and the Spurs are dead last in offense partly because Wemby on offense doesn't have the impact of Wemby on defense right now
He is better defensive player but second scorer and passer of his team too. His offense has a great impact (even if he must improve his shooting) but not enough when the other guys make absolutely nothing good. Can you imagine what should be his impact if he played more than 29 ? More points and assists made, less easy points for the other team : many short losses would have been wins : Spurs lost 15+ games by less than 10.
If you still favor Gobert as DPOY then that's fine but "Wemby's team is bad" is the weakest possible argument. RJ said let's reward winning. That's what the playoffs do. It's what the those rings are for. Just because a TEAM is winning doesn't mean their best defender is the best defender in the league. The award isn't called the Best Defender On The Best Defensive Team award. Its the Defensive PLAYER of the Year award.
Wemby himselfs doesn’t believe that numbers matters if you’ve lost, he said so in a post game interview after playing the Lakers. But I do believe that if it is an individual award then he should be mentioned in the category even if he doesn’t win.
I think its funny people say "Wemby will win 5 DPOY" - Like what? You think his career is gonna be 6 years total? He about to win 15 DPOY straight unless someone generational comes around
RJ's DPOY take is so horrendous I actually cringed. Maybe he should do some research and learn that Wemby currently leads the leage in blocks, steals, and on/off defensive rating by a wide margin. He also has recorded more blocks in his rookie year than Gobert's past 2 years combined. Yes winning matters, but Wembanyama is having a historic season defensively, and historic circumstances call for historic measures. I get no rookie has won it ever, but RJ drawing a hard line on winning when there were other factors to consider for the Spurs' record (Sochan pg experiment, Wemby's minutes restriction etc.) is frusturating.
Da👽 definitely deserves Defensive Player of the yr even tho he mite not. But what ppl should ask themselves is who would you rather take if they're on the board rudy or Da👽
Wemby impact the way the other team attack. Like great offensive player impact the way the other team play difende wemby do the same but on the other side of the floor like nobody else in the league right now. Wemby is the DPOY.
