Edited: you basically finish your video commenting on this exact subject, kudos. I think the big question with wrist curl is whether these pros are keeping the wrist loose or whether they are putting a concerted effort into extension and then curling during the throw. I personally lean toward a looser wrist being the answer watching AB and Gannon. People have often discussed keeping the “whole arm loose” which definitely is not correct from my perspective but I do think that keeping the “tip of the whip” more fluid and less controlled could easily help to allow it to snap with maximum efficiency. The extension and curling could absolutely be a natural consequence of everything else these players are doing and less of a “forced motion.”
Nice job! Your video came along at a good time for me: I am coming back from rotator cuff surgery and one of the things I'm working on is maximizing spin. Thanks for this technical breakdown.
Backhands: I was throwing anywhere between 780rpm and 1120 rpm (averaging about 950-1030rpm) around 62-65mph for a standard distance shot. I was told I didn't have a power pocket, which, looking at a video of myself, I didn't lol Over the next two weeks, I incorporated the pocket by just starting the throw with my hips, letting my arm hang loose, and then incorporating the wrist at the last minute with my arm speeding up. I felt the 'elbow into the door' technique was working great so I measured my spin and I was now averaging 1250-1300rpm at similar speeds (64-67mph). To anyone wanting more spin and throwing around 55mph, I would say the investment is worth it if you're not hitting 1100rpm because there's likely some form issue to resolve. Mine (and I think most people) have rounding issues in some aspect. Edit: and my form still isn't great by any means. I just have very long arms. However, if you have longer arms and narrow shoulders and hips, you should have a mechanical advantage and capable of generating more spin on the disc(in theory). A local at my course is throwing with 1500rpm (on average, but has hit 1740rpm), 70-75mph and he's pretty much identical to Gannon Buhr's size and frame (and even age). I don't think it's coincidence.
I found your channel a couple of days ago, and I must say, great videos!! I'm really impressed by your development in your form but also the way you explain things. Keep the videos coming!
Great video, Neil! I believe this is an area I need to work on, as well, once I have my swing plane issues sorted out. The work you're doing with grip and other areas is great to see!
Appreciate it. I think my spin before wasn't bad or great, so it wasn't a big area of concern so I intentionally didn't try to do any extra stuff with the wrist since it seemed like added complexity on top of trying to get the fundamentals down and learn to nose with (which already gives the wrist a job). Plus, the wrist in racket sports like pickleball is notorious for being a big source of problems and mistakes, as it seems to be in disc golf too. I probably would've tested it sooner if I had the tech disc since you can do a quick check without lots of commitment. How's your swing plane coming along?
@@disc-golf-neil Taking a break to let my shoulder heal some. I have a local pro working on that with me this upcoming Sunday morning. Likely make a video out of it and publish it next week. It's been 2 years since I've had a local disc golf coach look at me, and I know a lot more than I did then, and I've filled him in on what I'm dealing with. Also it helps that he's known me for 3+ years.
@@NickCarroll awesome, hope the pro helps! Btw, for elbow drop, not sure if you've tried this yet but if you just sit there and put your forearm across your chest with your elbow abdomen with your elbow down, then you use scapular protraction to push the shoulder forward, my elbow naturally wants to come up when I do that. I've been using that as a cue lately to keep my elbow up, holding the disc with scapular protraction before I throw to build up the muscle memory for it.
@@NickCarroll I can't atm but will later if needed but maybe these steps will be easier for you to try what I described above. Try this while just sitting or standing without a disc. 1. Put forearm across and touching the abdomen with elbow down by your ribs (this puts you into internal shoulder rotation like the power pocket but with the elbow down and forearm fully down) 2. Try to push your elbow FORWARD away from your body (exaggerate) like your going to elbow something in front of your chest that you can barley reach. 3. This should have rounded your upper back / shoulders forward (bear hug) and brought your elbow up. 4. Notice how you thought about pushing your elbow forward away from you instead of thinking about "lift it up" but it went up anyway? I think this is a more robust body mechanic to focus on to keep the elbow up than more directly trying to lift it up.
I would guess that advance ratio is a % of the "rolling speed" of the disc. 100% ADV Ratio would be the disc rolling on the ground with perfect friction, so spin rate is determined by the discs speed and circumference. Not sure what disc diameter they are using to calculate it, but it should be something like: Convert the speed to cm/minute, 65mph = 174346. Divide by the circumference to find how many revolutions the disc makes per minute, 174346/ 67.5 (for a 21.5 cm diameter disc) = 2582. That's the perfect roll rate, a spin of 1291 would be 50% advance rate!
You're right. They use the standard driver diameter of 21.1 cm, as I get the same numbers as them calculating it in that way. So for one rotation of the disc (66.3 cm of distance traveled around the circumference) an ADV ratio of 50% means the disc went forward 132.6 cm. Also, you can come up with a straight conversion factor to make it easy to get an ADV from anyone's figures. In MPH that is: (RPM / MPH) * 0.0247 (0.0397 for KMH). For quick mental math, you want to see RPM ~20x higher than speed in MPH. Speed of 50 MPH and 1,000 RPM is 49.4. 60 MPH and 1,200 RPM is also 49.4...etc.
i just started doing this recently just because it seemed to have more of a consistent release then my normal throw.. the more i did it the more i noticed my discs were going further and flipping up more.. my buddy said i wonder if it makes more spin ... thanks for the video confirming what we were guessing LOL
I need to start incorporating it into my normal form more for more distance, but I've been actively working on other stuff still but thanks for the reminder. However, from what I know there should be less flip up with more spin, the spin stabilizes the disc more. This is why forehands are so much more prone to flipping and you need a lot more overstable discs for FH, because they have like 40% less spin or something huge like that on average compared to a BH
Yeah it is tough. I think it’s easier for me though from playing racket sports where you have the same issue of learning to grip tight enough so it doesn’t slip but still have a loose wrist to use.
~~ADV Ratio = ((speed(mph) X 10) / Spin(rpm) ) X 100 . Corey Ellis first Stat ((74.73 x 10) / 1353.81) X 100 = 55.2% /// Your First Backhand Hyzer ((60.2 x 10) / 1232) x 100 = 48.9% Not exactly perfect, but very close. I am sure the final equation is more complex.
Yes it was in the video titled best nose down techniques but these are primarily test and show results videos and not instructional so I don’t go in depth on how to do it. I want to make some instructional stuff but I want to make sure I know enough first. Lots of things I thought I knew then learned later I didn’t know deeply enough.
I need to test out chalk more, but I suspect there’s a sweet spot for grip. Often it feels like the tiniest bit of moisture gives you some extra tack and grip, but it’s such a fine line that a moment later there’s too much moisture and it’s now slippery. Whereas too dry won’t have enough friction so it’s probably best to get a thin layer of chalk and blow off the excess or wipe a little on the towel or your shorts to make sure it’s not caked on or overly dry but enough to keep your hand from getting to wet. For consistency it’s probably better to just get used to throwing always with chalk since you can control that and always have dry hands which you’ll get used to. I used to rock climb a lot where chalk is super common so this all lines up with that.
Cool, haven’t seen that. Lots of old stuff I haven’t see since I started playing in September. I saw Eagle in a recent bodanza vid though and Eagle threw a disc that normally turns gently at that speed and release angle and it didn’t turn on a particular throw and bodanza was like, “that’s weird” and Eagle said it was because he “popped it” which I think he was referring to adding extra spin with the wrist to make it more stable.
Yo Neil! I also have a YT channel and live in Austin as well! We should play a round together sometime and collab for a video or 2👀 watched the nose down and spin videos recently and would love to hear your opinion on some things
@@totalleftydiscgolf lmao I was about to say the same. I was taking a look at your channel and like, why is his voice so familiar?? That’s awesome! I ended up scoring a lead card with AB on it. Went much smoother after your help and getting used to the quirks of the scoring app.
