Anthony now has a lineage not in skill but merely just by a Japanese person handing him (a white person) a piece of paper about a dead Ryu, and tries to teach Samurai sword fighting. lol Clearly he does not follow his own advice. Granted, he has trained with a few of the fake ninjas.
In any case a "real ninja" would never tell anyone he's a ninja, I mean would an undercover cop tell anyone he's a cop? No. Any way I've loved your vids Anthony, and thank you for all your efforts to shed light on all the bs. I'm a dedicated martial artist, and I've always been fascinated by the myth of the ninja, but I do have somewhat of a grasp of reality, not much but some. My stance has always been use whatever techniques that work for you, and as far as historical authenticity, myself personally couldn't care less as long the technique is effective, its only when these fake masters sell a bunch of crap that gets people hurt, or even killed that I have a problem. I didn't mean to make this so long I it just sort of wrote itself, I've been holding this in for a while. Thank you again
Please tell us Anthony! Why would you want to put so much effort into being a fraud when you could have just gone to train and keep your mouth shut like everyone else!? You spend your life trying to justify why you couldn't just show up and train. You are not a martial artist at all, so you have no room to speak about any of this...
I did Ninjutsu back in the 2004s and it was never presented as anything other than it is: the schools of the Takamatsu-den as a collection of hand-to-hand, evasion-focused skills that the "real ninjers" did when necessity arose, and sometimes did stealth-focused training activities on seminars. It might've been a bit silly to call ourselves ninjas, but it's even sillier to make RU-vid marketing videos behind a real channel and a fake Toda Shinryuken channel to do the really dirty mudslinging. I guess having a heavy book in hand would make for a good blunt weapon of necessity if someone came at you.
are you not the headmaster of natori ryu, giving out menkyo kaiden (or getteing people to write essays so they can get a mekyo from you). I'm only asking, nothing more, this is what i read, if you are how are able to do this when you never received (doesn't it mean complete transmission from one master to a student) one yourself. If your not going to be handing out menkyo's , let me know and i'll put people straight next time someone tells me.
Operational Shinobi Dojos do not have public access and members are not allowed to speak of it outside the dojo. Ninja "enthusiasts" are found at strip malls.
Ask him his take on Natori Ryu, he is after all the head of that Ryu just because a modern non-Ninja family member gave him "permission" to restart the long dead Ryu with no training. He has no teacher in the Natori School. These ex CIA spies on RU-vid are more legit because they were trained by the CIA teachers of the CIA school of spies. He has been larping all his life. He has found his place in the world of LARP.
True they cannot be historical Ninja, I have no problem with others using the ninja moniker though as long as they are honest about their teaching and not claiming false lineage or claiming to be the main authority on Ninjas. If someone embraces a lifestyle and develops a skill set inspired by their muse then they are not really frauds. If role-playing a ninja helps you in your training then I'm glad you found your inspiration. Lol I don't care if some calls themselves a knight samurai Ninja wizard Jedi witch etc. Lol can't guarantee you'll be taken seriously though.
Why can't more people just be honest. I personally don't have any reason to criticize someone who openly admits that they are NOT Ninja, but still incorporates both fictional and Historical Ninja into their studies and teachings. Making sure they carefully separate one from the other. If a school wants to totally adopt the Ninja imagery in every way, why should this be frowned upon? If the martial art they study is effective, if the tactics they employ are effective, if they study the true history of the subject and teach it. And are clear and say they are NOT ninja... Hell, they can call themselves shadow warriors or some other moniker that relates to ninja. But just be honest about it all. I personally think that the vast majority of these so frauds simply don't know they are frauds. They teach what they have been taught and believe what they have been told. I can't fault some sensei making a living reselling what he has been sold as authentic. In the martial arts world, you kind have to get used to people always trying to mock your art, or say it's not effective. someone telling you - Hey, you know that art you spent 8 years and thousands of dollars learning and now make a living teaching? Did you know that art is total bullshit? you should stop teaching it! I don't think anyone could easily handle that gracefully. I mean, even if the martial art you are teaching is effective and legit in that sense... It still kills your credibility. Even if only in your own mind (assuming you have a conscience). I think a LOT of people would find a way to rationalize the fraud, or go into denial and simply ignore the evidence that betrays them. I really think that the there are only a handful out there that see it as a marketing gimmick and intentionally fraud people. Thoughts?
Sometimes you have to be tested to show yourself approved by your community of fellow martial artists-- not just the ones from your own dojo who go along with the coordinated dance routine in exhibitions!
If i was in their place, i would basically come up with my own martial art... Call it whatever i want... Teach basically the same but without lying to peopke about the history of it... There is a martial art in argentina called sipalki... It is basically hapkido with a bigger focus on weapons including weapons sparring and tournaments... They claim the art is an ancient art of old korean warriors... But we all know its fake... That doesnt take away the effectiveness of what is basically korean mma with swords and knives
Ninjutsu was developed in the 20thC, Shotokan was developed in the 20thC, TKD was developed in the 2nd half of the 20thC, Budo Karate, Wushu, and all modern budo weapons systems were developed in the 20th C.
HELLO TO ALL NINJA AND SAMURAI ENTHUSIASTS!!! ON BEHALF OF ANTONY CUMMINS I WOULD LIKE TO INFORM YOU THAT HE DOESN'T RECEIVE NOTIFICATIONS FOR REPLIES TO HIS REPLIES. IF YOU ARE NEW TO THE CHANNEL ANTONY WOULD LIKE YOU TO START BY WATCHING HIS 2020 DOCUMENTARY.
Well on the subject of fraud if ninja or shinobi no mono are meant to be shadow warriors who operate in secrecy they would only teach their secrets from family to family member i.e father to son etc.. For three good reason 1. Teaching Ninjutsu secrets to anyone exposes their family members with the threat of being killed. 2. Teaching your secrets to people you don't know exposes your secrets so people know what to expect rendering your techniques to be useless. 3. teaching your secrets to non family member means that some people cannot be trusted to use Ninjutsu as they would misuse it to commit crimes against people which some ninja did.So this idea that ninja write a Ninja encyclopaedia called the bansenshukai is really a fraud that the ninja would deliberately use as false misinformation to mislead their enemy that these are the fighting survival techiniqes of the ninja.for example in one of anthony videos he states the book will tell a ninja when to attack a castle at what time or even what position lets say from the back of the castle. If someone got hold of this information or even by mouth or by obtaining this book. Than the ninja would trick their enemies with false intelligence or misinformation.So that they would attack from the front it just like in the cold war Russian and USA they never tell anyone their secrets there was a lot of false information given to their enemies. Just like a Great magician would never reveals his/her tricks in the magic circle. I believe that the bansenshukai is a Fraudulent book written by the ninja to give out false information. Remember they were masters of deception and may be the original teachings are documented somewhere else or it was safer to teach by word of mouth.if you expose your secrets to people you would be marked for death and that is true of todays society. There not much you can learn from a book just the strategies you must learn and train in a dojo or train and become your own master !!!! than you become a true one ! Remember Im only a shadow away
pat mat yes that is correct they could create a network of organised criminals who misuse their arts. For crime terrorism or even personal gain for example www.trackingterrorism.org/group/ninjas is an example and the iraqi Fedayeen saddams elite group use ninja style of guerrilla warfare techniques to spy and kill the innocent that exposed the crimes that Saddam and his men were doing.
Thats a vary intresting point and has some validity to it my only hang up is that japan has so mutch martial influence hundreds of kenjutsu styles as many jujutsu styles a ton of yari jutsu e.c.t not to mention kabudo, karate to meny to list all of which take a lifetime if not generations to perfect as a shinobi you would be preoccupied with the other 100 things such as explosives free running stealth e.c.t that take as long to perfect and are extremely specific to being a shinobi it just seems more practical to learn whats been provin instead of takeing generations to develop techniques that you have to 1 develop in secret makeing you're training group extremely small 2 this limits the effectiveness of in art only haveing a small group of peaple to experiment and pressure test the technique you are developing and 3 if to meny practitioners die do to small size of the group the art as a whole is lost not to mention the body only moves in so many ways i trained karate gung fu a little ty kuan do and muy thai dispite the difference between them most of the principal is the same muy thai is the most different but my point being why develop something thats all around you and hidden dim mok secret techniques are bullshido
Antony I have one Question about the Bujinkan. Hatsuumi made this organization what it is today.. ?? My question, on Togakure Ryu and the rest. What historical evidence does a researcher need to verify one's claims. Was anything about the Bujinkan, verified in fact. Regards Phil Moore.
Just a small point of interest to give some clarity about why people would use the word samurai in their martial arts. During the 18th century the British army referred to all their firearms training as musketry meaning a form of firing a musket, now fast forward to the late 19th century boar war First World War the British army was now using a relatively modern rifle far removed from the early ball and powder musket, however the manuals of the day still call the firing drills with the modern rifle musketry. I mention this only to show that a name is quite a diverse item and can be used to describe a modern point of View from a historical context i.e. Musketry could still be used to describe modern firing patterns and training. So if you say I practice samurai jujutsu and in fact it's a modern form instead of say Tagaki yoshin Ryu or gyoko Ryu then it could still be a relevant way of describing what you do, it has some connections with the samurai as the whole jujutsu art began there even if it is not some ancient system etc. At the end of the day a rose by any other name etc etc
Has any of this been brought to a PhD on the subject like Kacem....or are we just dismissing his opinion because he's in the Bujinkan? Ninpo Taijutsu and things like Gyokko and Koto Ryu are NOT completely dismissed by the whole of academia. Please stop talking about it in such a light and show some mutual respect. This is why people have most likely stopped posting videos. If it's so conclusive to you that you've dismissed them, then frankly they have nothing more to say. Plain and simple. Bujinkan members DO buy your books. Some just don't agree with your personal footnotes in them is all. I myself like the base texts and am going through Iga and Koka book right now. It's nice having the sources stacked so one can read the same subject all on one page.
Mr. Antony, many people need to Identify with something to keep them focused on the path. I believe there are always going to be people that are attracted to the more esoteric systems despite the actual historical reality and significance.
ok. I will put it into context, and i will put it into reality. In order for Ninjutsu to survive with the passing of time, it had to EVOLVE. You, out of most people should be aware of this more then anyone else. Is Karete, Kung fu, taekwondo, taught in it's original forms or have they evolved in one way or the other to become more practical for todays society IN AMERICA? As far as whether or not the ninjas traditionally used a specific form of unarmed combat goes. Is it not your own admission that there is an extremely gray line between ninja and samurai? If that's the case wouldn't it be more likely that just like the samurai, the ninja would have studied jujutsu as a form of unarmed combat? Is this not what is taught in ninjutsu today? Also since Iga, again by your own admission is so small in nature, couldn't it be posible that some ninjutsu systems were IN- FACT organized to a point that they did incorperate an organised structure of sorts? You say that ninjutsu has no record of the use of unarmed combat so therefor an organised sysyem of unarmed combat doesn't exist. Agian, using common sense with the geographical locations and its limmited bounderies inwhich it was said to develope wouldn't this also seem far fetched? Please do not get me wrong, i just love your books and i'm very greatful of your work. I believe that your books and research is invaliable, but i also think that you mix your own opinions in with your research to the point that your research becomes a little biased.
I am right there with ya mate! We have conversed over the years several times on the idea of what occupational specialties a Sengoku jidai military special operator might have employed that directly correlate to skills now used in modern armies. Some are 1 to 1, others are antiquated in the extreme, or are simply a product of a time & culture that no longer exist. If you are a modern special operator using similar skills, then perhaps shinobi no jutsu has an "alive" aspect to a degree, however you are not a "ninjer" or Samurai. You are a Ranger, S.E.A.L., Spetsnaz, martial arts instructor, historian or what ever, but to claim direct correlation to a bygone group in a bygone era is definitely fraudulent at best & delusional at worst. I am of the First Nations tribes of North America and by primogenitor customs belong to an indigenous warrior/military society, but to claim that my interest in the study of ancient scouting and guerrilla tactics makes me some how an "Indian Scout" like my ancestors is ridiculous. It is more like cultural preservation and experimental archaeology which is good enough for me, but I often see all sorts of characters claiming to be proud warriors just like their "ancestors". Right place maybe but wrong time. Until I complete Uni I consider my self to be a layman experimental archaeologist/cultural preservationist or perhaps just a huge nerd but certainly not a ninja/scout/warrior/samurai ect... Cheers!
Affirmative or at least it is possible if the skill set/function is still defined as such. “Security”, however, is of French/Latin/English origin meaning to protect against or be free from danger or hazard. As such, the term simply refers to, in a strategic/tactical sense, defense of assets or protection from enemy opposition/detection. So, until these functions are defined by other terms in the future, security would still be an accurate description but may not relate to the current definition 100%. Some examples are: the term army, in the U.S. the word still refers to standing military forces but not the same forces of 500 years ago, the role of a military scout in Japan’s warring states era is drastically different from the duties of a scout in the modern Japanese self-defense force or JDF but its basic military definition remains relatively unchanged, finally a security guard from a 13th century silk road caravan is not the same as that of a security guard for a modern Chinese corporation. All of these examples have much in common with their modern expressions, but unless social evolution has completely stagnated, several centuries will undoubtedly change the finer details of any function. So, one cannot be a security specialist in the sense of a Silk Road guard detail even though the basic foundations of security remain unchanged, but one can still be a security specialist. Cheers.
What you describe after about 10 minutes into the video is Modern Ninjutsu. It is building off the historical info or even some of the modern ninjutsu schools with the historical context.
+Ron Collins I agree with you Ron historical texts is main focus even modern ninjutsu people think ninjutsu stopped at the time but is alive if people let grow
@@canadafree2087 problem is that it is all modern ninjutsu, Takamatsu invented his ninjutsu. In fact, its possible only 1 school in the Takamatsu-den lineage is not something he made up himself.
cool video Antony! I love the ninja too and if ive ever referred to myself as a ninja it's like how people say they're superman. lol it's not real but I look at them as inspiration to be stronger. :-) PLUS I love fictional ninjas as well as historical ninjas but ninjas from fiction more. I think you made a great video and great points! good job Antony!
Anthony you do a great job and keep up the good work. I do differ with you that just one day in history all the ninja were gone. However I do believe your right about walking your own path to discover what works.
When I was young, and bored of karate (Isshinryu Karate), I got caught up in the ninja hype, and told my grandmother (Who's Okinawan) that I wanted to become a ninja. She chewed me out, and basically said that ninja's lose their souls and when they die, they just vanish from the world, no afterlife, nothing. So the mysticism of it is strong; it's hard for a lot of people not to be charmed into it. I certainly was, but now I've grown older, I'm less ninja, and just more sneaky. Still though, I wonder how she'd take the news that samurai were also shinobi, considering she claims we have a samurai lineage (Or some Okinawan equivalent, I didn't really pay that much attention, regrettably.)
I mean, karate is okinawan, so I can see why she was upset about the idea of quitting karate. She would hate all the whitewashed americanized versions of karate!
this is a good commend on martial sports , there is a lot of rubis , they use other style in there system to make it strong and have no master license, they copy from sell dvd
Umm the word Ninja simply means spy. So anyone who is employed by their country to eavesdrop on another country could call themselves a ninja from a purely literal meaning of the word. Does not mean they have the same skill set as the Ninja of feudal Japan. What I do not get is why do you care about what some people call themselves? If someone comes up to you and boasts of his Ninja skills then simply challenge him to a no holds barred fight. This will very quickly have them backing off or it will prove their skills are crappy. Or as an outside chance it will prove they are very skilled.
everything was made up at some point, I don't get why saying it was made up is a bad thing. All forms of martial arts were made up at one point or the other. People who think that it has to be hundreds or thousands of years old to be right need to examine that idea. we don't live like, in or the way people did in our past why train that way now. it is like still carting around a pooper scooper in the trunk of an automobile, in case the car stops on the side of the road to take a dump, like a horse. If it works for you it works, labels, age or whatever isn't a factor and if it is then I think your concerned a bit too much about the wrong things. I think your main concern is wordage used, I may be wrong? It seems you would get upset if I called a dog a cat and maintained it was a cat. Why ? if someone wants to call themselves a Ninja why does that truly bother you ? Is it ok to do the exact same training and call themselves a door? you seem truly upset with anyone calling themselves ninja.
I can understand being inspired as a warrior by ninja/samurai military or not. There is a lot of carryover with ninjutsu and American warfare for example. Certainly wisdom to glean. But I ain’t a samurai. And I probably wouldn’t be anything more than a ronin if I was born to that culture. Only family gets my loyalty and family is more than blood FYI American “ninjutsu “ is called Gray Man. Lots of great videos on the subject from the tactical and survival groups
Real ninjas where the Navy seals of there day nijitsu was guerrilla warfare also to learn ninjitsu there several different arts you must learn such as tai jitsu Wich is unarmed combatives bojitsu the art of the bo staff etc etc in Japan you have train at several different schools and with several different ninja master and no you not learn karate and Jiu-Jitsu and proclaim your a ninja you to study the right disipline as noted in the 2 examples above.
It's similar with the fake martial arts and masters after the internet and UFS and other mixed martial arts competition. They are unvailing false myths about the efficiency of some arts and prove the utility of other. A lot of misconsepction I have when I was a young boy passionate to learn martial arts and loved all of those famous B movies of the 80 is and 90'is, buyed a few books that now I know that are useless piece of shit with the author,too...but I was so excited then ..now this myths and false idols fall...and now still love martial arts and sport in different way. A good work that Antony does and I hope, He still show up with new, exciting materials:)
So Ninjutsu isn't a proper name ? If Shinobi-jutsu is a proper historical name then how come they decided to use Ninjutsu word instead at one point for no reason ?
+temp911Luke They did not. It is the same kanji, there are two readings in japan, ock-Chinese and japanese. Ninja is the mock-Chinese, all phonetic markers from the medieval period show shinobi no jutsu not a single one says ninjutsu.
+Antony Cummins So Anthony out of ALL the ninja scrolls , manuscripts , ancient books etc... you have read about the shinobi no jutsu /ninjutsu , is there not a single mention of fighting / training techniques eg...picture diagrams of how to do a certain kick or punch etc.. that are uniquely "based" on shinobi no jutsu way of fighting ? ( moves not found in any other martial art type) not a single bit of evidence? (NO fighting manuals?)
No more living real Shinobi Masters correct. We should read the scrolls better yet read the translated version of Brother Anthony. This is why its very difficult to be a student without a master even so learning and discovering is fine. Base from the video its like claiming to be a boxer and you only did it on a video game fantasy. Its like I will teach you the path and you your self don't know or not sure you be teaching wrong. Yup anyone can kill or do damage still if we are talking about Shinobi proper path its going to be hard without knowing the proper history.
In a spin-off comic with a character named Kev who is an ex-SAS who is being hunted by a female ninja assassin remarks about his enemy as not being a ninja but "someone who saw too many ninja movies." I'm sure there are probably a vast majority of SAS troopers who feel the same way.
I think it would be better served to explain to people what you would have to do in today's times to be considered a ninja that's where the disconnect is
Yep, no self respecting special operations shinobi operator would tell you that they are knowing you would see right through the lie. Kick them in the nuts.
if a person wants to train as Ninja they must be living in the area and excepted by the Master it sounds movie like but true and most expect you to be Japanese or they will tell you to leave . If you are fortunate enough to find a Master of Ninjitsu he may teah you all 10 Degrees it is illegal to teach past a certain point
People say ninja because if they doing sneaky shit they say that it's a ninja thing. It's just a way of saying you are a sneaky person maybe you can fight too. It's like when you call yourself a navy seal or a marine. It doesn't mean you really or one or that you follow what they do, you just like to be as cool as the ones. How is this so hard to grasp for you m'good sir?
according to shinobi scroll nintai is suppose to evolve! you have not seen every shinobi maki in Japan! but, every people entitled to their own opinion.
@432fuuzz any seen as of yet...there are those in private collections that have not been seen by outsiders and have (are still) kept to the owners... So yet to see.
Unless martial arts is evolving. What will it be like in 25 more years? Real ninjas always keep their martial arts a confidential matter, they don't necessarily show off or tell people.
If I may say, that having met and trained with some who are on the path, that I found evolution of the art is part and parcel of the method. If a problem is put forward there may be a ready made solution available, however one may have to improvise or adapt a solution for what may be a unique scenario. I do know that some have studied at the knee of their sensei and then devised their own new methods, and called it new ninjitsu. This might be based on what they have mastered but is not endorsed but their sensei. Bruce Lee studied different styles of the art including Wing Chun, but he called his modern take Jest Kun Do. He never said he was teaching Wing Chun. Some sensei, are teaching traditional methods based on traditional scrolls, and what is learned is traditional. The moment you need to use what you learned for real you have deviated from the forms etc you have learned. Is this being a fraud, is it evolution. We cannot live in the past but we can bring the goodness of it to the present. To me a fraud would be someone who knowingly professes to teach something that is not based on sound information of tells students that the system has a history which is not true.There are now two schools teaching the skills and both claim a direct link to the historical lineage. What they teach is in fact very similar, yet only one is generally accepted as the true descendant. But both have their followers and their detractors. Both are steeped in tradition and in some instances use modern technology to pass on information. This is evolving keeping up with modern teaching methods, but imparting the same historical lessons and ethics.We need to look at the credentials of the system and how it is taught and importantly who is teaching it. The military do not train using the square on the battlefield, it has evolved. But it is good to know why it was used, why it is no longer used and what is your best defence today. Truly to be of the type one doesn't need to be announced but to keep to the shadows and be there when required.
Most of these guys only got their idea of what Ninja are from bad 1980s movies. That's where this modern obsession started, and it is from this that we have this idea that Ninja are MA masters. The "ninja masters" spied an opportunity to make money in the 1980s from gullible students and Ninjutsu was born. People aren't listening because your attacking their livelihood, and undermining how how they identify themselves. Both are deep rooted maybe decades of illusion and lies repeated so often they become truth. These people are not going to stop living their fantasy simply because you say it's not historically accurate. It's not the history they are interested in, it's the movie fantasy that they buy into. Chosun ninja for example might say we'll all that might be true for Japanese shinobi, but not my lineage in Korea. And our history has been passed down father to son and was never recorded in ink. And he'll convince even himself of that and keep peddling poor technique to wannabes
Being more of a HEMA enthusiast, I think Anthony you are jumping the gun here. I have bought quite a few of your book's and think you are doing splendid work bringing greater authenticity and insight to what we know about the historical shinobi no mono. However claiming that there couldn't be a systemic martial combat system for infiltrators flies in the face of reason and and indeed history. FBI have different have to learn different firing skills from state law enforcement. British police learn compliance holds that are in line with UK standards of arrest and detainment. The british cutlass drill for sailors was very different from the infantry sabre version to take into account of the environment and the weapons. Grappling in full plate from european fechten manuals have very different emphasis from say unarmored grappling seen in contemporary european folk wrestling systems. And yet we are meant to believe that Shinobi no Mono for all their ingenuity in creating a myriad of different fireproof torches were uniquely incapable of creating a systemic combat system with an emphasis on certain dynamics when engaged in infiltration. Why even having a o-wakizashi with an specialised hand guard would immediately suggest any number of practical methods which would by necessity lead to a different methods of fighting. I would contend systems almost certainly existed. I think the question you have to grapple with is: 1) does Togakure Ryu (and lets face it this is the nub of the entire problem) have any historical basis? and 2) are its methods hoplogically consistent with what skills an infiltrator would need to know? My feeling to the first question is a qualified NO, but to the second question a qualified YES
Hydlide++ All of what you mentioned above have clear examples and proof in history, also they are from different times and geographical locations. So where is the proof for a ninja hand to hand system, no where. Its in one place at one time. This argument was settled a long time ago. There just simply is nothing there and there are masses of literature on the shinobi and not one of them even talks about it. Not one.
True, so far within the literature there are no systemic accounts of hand to hand combat systems. But here is where it gets tricky. Take for example the Sardinian folk wrestling art of I'strumpa. It is a folk tradition tradition dating back X years and is similar and some other types of celtic folk wrestling such as in the basque and normandy regions and in case of Scottish back hold virtually identical. We know members of the Sassari Brigade used it in the trenches of WWI due to military dispatches and there are some 19th century historical sources mentioning its use in village festivals. None of these sources are Sardinian, because quite famously Sardinia has a mostly oral culture. Quite simply they didn't write stuff down. A lot of the knowledge of their arts and crafts are handed down in such a manner. It's assumed that most of what Takamasu handed down about the Togakure Ryu was in form of 'Kuden' oral transmission. Now I can fully appreciate that Oral traditions have to be treated with a great deal of suspicion. But you cannot simply as a historian accept that the oral Transmission of ninjutsu by of Otake Sensei of Katori Shinto Ryu are true, and those of Takamatsu are immediately false. Either both are suspect because they are oral traditions or both may have some validity to be ascertained. Same for Sardinian Folk wrestling. They claim its a system that has its roots as far as the 16th century, like incidentally other folk celtic wrestling systems. But documentation only goes back to 19th. Are we then to believe they made up 200 years of oral tradition?
Now I suspect the beef that you have is that Togakure Ryu has no documented proof that it exists in historically. But from what little can be gleaned they seem to be little more than technical lists with few explanations attached. The rest is a oral transmission. The scrolls were probably written by Takamatsu in the 1950's. Of the three 'scrolls': 1) the 5 element hiding was probably cribbed from Gingetsu's Itoh's early 20th century works. 2) The Ninja Sword scroll - no idea. 3) The Ninpo Taijutsu scroll is divided into three sections a) using climbing equipment in hand to hand desperation b) rolling or climbing out of sight when discovered and escaping using eye blinders or shuriken 3) anti-arrest techniques, again using eye blinders and shuriken. None of these are pure hand to hand combat skills and seem to be in line with the skills and infiltrator would need in low light conditions, by either distraction or using eye blinders which appear in your historical manuals. Its actually pretty boring run of the mill bread and butter stuff with boils down to escaping a hold blinding them and running away. Now if you then said there is absolutely no historical evidence that Toda Shinryuken transmitted these to Takamatsu you would be on stronger ground. Im not even going to touch that can or worms.
Antony Cummins on the video topic, how would you like to convince them to admit they are freauds if they are running entier schools and make all their money or lots of money on that lie? it will be very hard until it will come true, maybe the next genuration would be less likely to decide to become a fraud...
It's a tricky thing. If we are talking Ashida Kim frauds, then well they will always be about. If you are talking about the Bujinkan and its offshoots then it gets trickier. The bujinkan is the creation of Hatsumi of 9 traditions that he was handed down by Takamatsu who WAS a bona fide talented martial arts instructor. Of the 9 schools 2 are real traditions that have other living branches. The other 7 are historically disputed, because some of them were taught purportedly to Takamatsu by Toda Shinryuken of which very strangely there is no historical evidence despite it being claimed he died in 1909, well into the modern period. Of these 7 only three are claimed to be ninjutsu traditions. Of the three only Togakure Ryu has been taught openly by Hatsumi and even so very rarely. Most of what the Bujinkan teach are techniques from Gyokko Ryu (mostly kihon happo) which kamae bear some resemblance to Togakure Ryu. So most of them are not learning ninjutsu anyway, just some other tradition which is also historically suspect. So the bujinkan has a some credible lineage, just not in their default teachings or what little ninjutsu skills are taught from Togakure Ryu.
One of the original Koga ninjutsu claimants has already passed. There used to be a very early "ninjutsu" video he produced in the late 1980's (it was filmed in a park in NYC) and it was so obviously horrible and improvised that it has been removed from RU-vid by (I imagine) his successor. It was obvious for years that his claims were fraudulent, yet he went to his grave with those claims. My point is that a lie can take on a life of its own. He became so invested in his ninja legacy that he could not walk away from it. It's a shame because he had a lot of real fighting skill. He could have just taught it as what it was - his own invention.
Martial Arts have adapted to peace times, their original purpose of teaching killing, gradually changed to cultivating the mind and improving one's self, so they can apply the principles in their own walk of life. Unfortunately, people miss this essence, and take up the arts in the hopes of learning the ways of violence. The techniques of martial arts have no place in an age of rifles and nuclear bombs except in entertainment, if one wants to learn killing, they could learn sports solely created for combat like Boxing or should join the army. These "ninja martial arts" are pure showmanship, and absolute nonsense. If one goes out of their way to use it today, they will most likely get arrested.
I do train in 'ninjutsu' however we use that as a banner, the art we learn is more Chinese than Japanese, we do not call ourselves ninja, but the combat of ninjutsu has some great principles which can be transferred to other, modern techniques. These days ninjutsu is not purely people playing dress up, we develop our own art, built around fundamentals of classic ninjutsu.
Did ninjas really pull eyeballs out of living dogs thinking it would give them powers? Like this was a practice documented and spread in the scrolls? Just seems so obnoxiously cruel and pointless.
I've trained for 32 years I met hatsumi a few times last time I seen him 17 years ago I asked what happened to why you don't teach real ninjutsu anymore only jujutsu .he walked away from me , he now is only interested in money which has corrupted him an important knowledge he has is gone to waste!! ages ago I used shinobi tactics in crime I was no shinobi it made me a twat keep up the good work Antony much respect
Oh. Well technically there are 18. If youre talking about the Bujinkan theres 9 different schools and some have their own way to approach any of the 18 if its part of their system etc
I totally agree, but unfortunately a lot are taken in by the process. Lots of fraudsters are good at selling themselves and their wares. People want to believe they want to believe in themselves and that is the niche in their armour by which the fraudster gains access. For every one genuine martial artist, body guard trainer etc their are hundreds pretending so we need to protect the weak and expose those who lie.
At least Shaolin remains true to it's teachings to this very day; however all Ninjutsu masters have passed away. However unlike Ninjutsu, you can still use Shaolin, Karate, Muay Thai, Judo, Aikido, and even MMA if you're trying to defend yourself. Use Ninjutsu however and you'll have a noose around your neck.
+Jon Miller Actually Taijutsu is not a Ninja art. Although Some Historic Ninja techniques may not be very legal .I imagine some deception techniques etc. can still be very applicable. You can still practice some Ninja Arts, its just that its impossible to be a historic Ninja or find a teacher with direct lineage.
+William Perkins You don't need direct lineage to practice arts, that's like saying you can't be a master painter if your father was not a painter. Yes, some of the fighting techniques will get you into a lot of trouble legally. Very vicious and painful, maybe maiming. Fight ending quickly and efficiently that most people who've never had to fight would think was barbaric. If that's how you classify it, then it is. I've been kicked out of an akido dojo by being more expedient than what I was being taught, but I was a dick. He tried to show off for the class by making an example of me, hooked my foot on his leg as he tried to throw me, he didn't throw me right; I hit the hardwood floor, didn't slap the floor, rolled instead right back onto my feet; he lost his balance and almost fell. Being a smart ass "Do you want to get back out the boktohs and I'll teach you how to use a katana properly?" End of class for me! To me it always been about survival by any means necessary.
Jon Miller The old Shaolin monks didn't do all that dancing and gymnastics. There hasn't been the original Shaolin tradition since the 1920s. Even the old writings are gone. The modern Shaolin temple is a tourist attraction and a brand that makes a lot of money for China.
is there a tattoo on your hand ? what does it mean ? well thanks for sharing at least you can afford going to japan , holding a sword is a dreamy sensation to me sometimes dreaming helps in this cruel reality btw , i totally agree with you
Classic Anthony, "I am right, everyone else is wrong". He now pretends to have a Ryu, but a modern Japanese can't just give you a Ryu from a dead art and call it your lineage. many laugh at his physical skills but if he wants to LARP then LARP. I've had Aikido guys question what we were doing, and I had to explain to them it was Jujutsu. Our goal is different. There is much merit in his research but I differ from his idea that you can't bring it into the new age. The Ninja are tied in history as saying you are a Knight. Charles darling could make you a Knight in title but that won't give you the skills of a Knight. However! The Ninja soul does not stop in time. The Ninja of 1300 did not use the same techniques in 1600, no like any military they constantly upgraded training and tactics. In reading the Shoninki you can see that in 2024 some of the skills are still being used today by modern spies. Not just spies, undercover cops must look, act, speak like bikers, drug dealers, etc. I am a student of sorts to SOE/OSS spies as well as Cold War spies, so the Ninja are part of that too. That does not mean I act like a know it all or even try to read every single book on the subject, I have a life to live and not going to leave grocery lists for my family in WWII code.
So basically Ninja's didn't fight? Ever? Hmmm, I don't think so. More like you are setting the stage for Natori Ryu. Now it seems more like you will be selling the combatives of Natori Ryu as the only true Ninjutsu. I am bot as foolish. Many clans across Japan had Ninja, they practiced Combative arts that they called Ninjutsu. Sorry, you are not correct....
Antony you are wrong. Let me to say it as the Jedi that I am :D Anyway you don't take the point. You are so enthusiast of the truth as they are antusiast of their fantasies. Nothing wrong with that. Or yes instead?
