"Since this is germany it's likely you got some physical paperwork" This is the most german thing ever, yes. As long as there's paper there will be germany
Except the younger German generations click blindly on everything that their mobile phone spits put, or blindly follow whatever some jerk on stackoverflow blurbs out, or ChatGPT tells them to do. Euphemistically spoken, they spare their brains the labour of understanding, saving their time for the next TikTok-hype/influencer, etc. We all failed the Enlightenment.
In Germany it is likely that when you take your newborn home from the hospital, there is already a letter waiting for them from the department of finances assigning them their tax ID
@@SantaMuerte1813 The famous German author, Goethe, had a day job as a lawyer/legal clerk. His main work was closing out old cases … from the Holy Roman Empire … _from the 14th Century._ Like I've said, in the German mind, if there isn't paperwork backing it, it isn't real, never happened, or isn't possible.
I got a letter through the post when the building society I used was sold, saying I was owed money from the sale and that for a fee they'd get me the money. Instead, I took that letter into the building society, and they hooked me up with the cash for free.
that's called "victim blaming". like blaming people for downloading open source programs from unofficial websites where it's bundled with phishing stuff.
@@rarbiart They are not "victims". The website basically says "You don't need to use our services. Bye bye". But people don't read and just pay whatever fee they're asked. They are not bothered with reading a bit. Their fault.
@@martinc.720 oh, yes "Wer lesen kann ist klar im Vorteil". That particularly applies to the guys reading and interpreting the laws in order to find their little loophole to build an absolutely useless online service around. Merely banking on people being rushed, stressed or too unexperienced in navigating online life to catch wind of something fishy going on. The website brings no service to the customer but charging their money to the owner's bank account. They _are falling victim_ to this provervial trap and this _is_ blaming the victims
It's also very common that when you order something from outside the EU (especially the USA and China) and it's held by customs, you'll get a letter from some company that's loosely associated with whatever logistics company handled the international part of the delivery. They will offer to handle the paperwork for a fee between 30 and 50€. Now, German import tax is a bit complicated but not THAT complicated. Usually you can go to the official website, pick the type of product you ordered from a list of categories (like "clothing, cotton" or "computer parts"), enter the amount you paid and be done with it in less then five minutes.
There's a scam in Spain involving receiving a fake SMS from the Post Office saying that you have been charged customs duties and that you have to pay them at some fishy website. In reality, the Post service actually handles imports is that it pays the taxes for you and they you only have to pay back the delivery driver in cash once you retreive your package (or at your local office). And you can pay only cash because there's no contactless option, which is a very Spanish thing indeed.
@@jonaszswietomierz8017 So the Post service perhaps paid a decent amount of taxes upfront when you as receiver may still refuse to accept the package (or perhaps you may lack existence to begin with)??
@@Heimbasteln As someone who bills by the hour, I see this as the one narrow use case for services like this. Why would I spend 30 minutes on a website that annoys me when I could spend the same amount of time working on something that doesn't annoy me, get paid for that, pay a service €30 for the annoying part, and still have some money left? Unless, of course, the "service" really does basically nothing and it's just as time-consuming as the official route itself.
@@HagenvonEitzen I'd guess that the risk of that happening is too small to outweigh the convenience to the consumers, so the government covers that with tax money.
As someone who as always lived in Germany I just learned that I have so far been completely immune to this - because i didn't even consider that official stuff can be done online, and assumed the pinnacle of German bureaucracy was still the fax machine :D
It's the same thing in the US, Google search puts third party websites above the government's website and suddenly you're paying $50+ for inputting the same information you had to input on the government site.
@@MiTheMer That's correct, too. (i meant the fact how they hid the mention of not being the official site and that it's free over there... in all the other fine print above and below)
I've seen the reddit thread this must have originated from, and was in disbelief by how strongly you were opposed to there. Thank you for doing such a great service!
@@gab_gallard Interestingly two ways: One poster criticized him for not calling it an outright illegal scam, another didn't see the scammy aspect since it technically is a legal thing to do. Both were wrong imho, since as Andrew says: Something that skirts the legal boundary on the inside can still be nefarious and predatory, hence a scam. But legal.
Moment, das muss man machen? Ich hab einfach immer gewartet bis ich von denen Angeschrieben wurde, dass die Zahlung überfällig ist. Gefunden haben die mich immer.
Waren die ersten mit einem "Kondolenzbrief" nach dem Tod meines Vaters (nicht ganz 2 Wochen danach, und natürlich war die wichtige Frage, wo sie demnächst abbuchen sollen), noch bevor die Stadtverwaltung, das Finanzamt und so ziemlich alle anderen abseits von Familie, Rechtsanwalt und Steuerberater davon erfahren haben. Sowohl für ihn als Privatperson, als auch seine kleine Firma. Der Beitrag scheint hoch genug zu sein, tausende an Detektiven zu beschäftigen, die solche Fälle in Lichtgeschwindigkeit ermitteln. Einfach nur ekelhaft.
There are unofficial websites selling slovenian motorway e-vignettes for more money than the official site. In Croatia there is also a scam where a private company tracks newly opened businesses and sends a proforma invoice in the mail to get included in a "national business registry". You can just throw these in the garbage bin ,but people think it's something official and want to avoid fines so they just pay the invoice.
This used to be a big thing in the UK too - purported "check and send" services that operated just on the right side of the law to justify their fee. They'd use search ads on things like EHICs/GHICs, Passports, US ESTA, etc. I looked a few up for examples now, though - mostly gone, for some reason.
I think the wonderful Martin Lewis kicked up a fuss about it, which got the government interested, so Google decided it would start blocking ads on common searches for UK bureaucracy. That's my theory anyway, no idea if that's true.
@@ICTman It was something like that. Google has actually been accepting money to put these scam sites at the top of the searches. Those are the "sponsored" ones you often find when looking for services, such as booking a hotel. Even Google backed down in the face of concerted bad publicity and the threat of new laws/regulations.
I was made aware of this when I arrived in Germany to live in a building owned by the university where I currently work. They gave me some papers explaining how the Rundfunkbeitrag works, the correct website to enroll and making it clear the official website does not charge any processing fee.
In court you still may have a high ground. Since they hide their fee by "strategily" arranging their page the contract itself can be compromised. Also adding a "surprise" in the Terms of Services can also be fought. All important contract information has to be visible AND understandable for the potential customer. But since the "fee" is so low most people do not sue - that might be much more expensive. My advice is to contact the Consumer Center in your region and inform about this kind of pseudo-legal operations.
Consumer organisations already know about this one, and all they can do is warn against it. The problem is that the information is very easily accessible to everyone. The terms of service are short and written in very clear, everyday German, and make it very clear exactly what the service is. The fee is clearly stated during the sign-up process before the customer makes a final decision. The contact information is also given in accordance with German law. The only thing that is actually devious is including the important information on the home page inside a longer and irrelevant text, but that's unlikely to stand up in court because it's repeated in multiple other places, including in the ToS which the customer has to confirm that they have read and agree to before in order to place an order.
Even the attempt to criminalize those services by court ruling under current legislation would bust the BGB and has the potential of being highly unconstitutional. German law allows for trading any shit at any price as long as buyer and seller BOTH agree on a) it's shit b) the price is fair market value. Legally there are only obstacles when the potentially scammed part of the deal wasn't mentally fit to grasp the peculiarities of the contract. In this case you'd need to set all Germans to be "zu dumm ein Loch in den Schnee zu pissen" [complete morons] by default, potentially questioning all written contracts with a body of over 10 lines of text.
@@sebastiant4597 But you forget that by EU and German law you have to disclose all relevant contract parts clear and open before a contact can become valid. Hiding a fee in in a paragraph which is not relevant or in the AGB is not legit. The main issue is that the fee is not high enough that you would consider going to court - the cost is in no relation to the outcome. Since Germany has no punitive damages you are getting in best case your fee and the cost of your lawyer back...
@@tomokig2655 1. The Fee is not hidden. It's even repeatedly stated multiple times throughout the process in quite short text blocks. 2. The Intention is not obscured. The websites do in fact point out that you can get the same service for free at the official website. That's what I was referring to when talking about written contracts with more than 10 lines of text. If you want to hold the ground that any text longer than 10 lines is potentially obfuscating information and thus "go over your head" you couldn't even hire a lawyer. 😂😂 If you want to be an adult, be treated like an adult and do business like an adult, there'll be a minimum of due diligence expected to be endured.
@@sebastiant4597 It's not quite everything that you can trade. Can't sell anything illegal. As in, explicitly made illegal elsewhere. But it does indeed offer a very open market.
Huh, that's the first time I ever heard of such a thing, but that's probably because I haven't moved in a while and almost exclusively do all my correspondence with the government either in person or through mail. But I get why people fall for this because German bureaucracy can be exhausting, so I get that some people feel inclined to pay someone else to do it to get it off their hands.
but why would you notify them? when you move, you register with the town and they notify them and you get a letter asking for clarification and guidance on what to do.
I believe these websites do not only exist for our official bureaucracy, but also if you want to end any contract. Some years ago I wanted to end my data plan and I wanted Google to tell me, which information needed to be in my letter and how it should look (I could not believe that it could be simple.) And all the result were like "give us your information, were gonna do the work for you". I did not feel comfortable just giving this to strangers on the Internet so I didn't fall for the scam.
Germans are willing to endure a state of perpetuous humiliation, but for your very own sake, don't insult the Rundfunkbeitrag. Simply calling it by its rightful names, like "tax" or "scam", will make you have enemies. Same applies to public health insurance / Krankenkasse.
I dont like the Rundfunkbeitrag, but i guess it is necessary, so that they can keep producing at least 2 "new" crime films per week with third grade actors following the same story line every time and of course including commercial breaks.
Well, maybe. But is it not noteworthy that these websites are seemingly better designed than the originals that people spend their money on a more simplistic website? Maybe it is just another case of where the German way is too confusing for Germans themselves.
In the US a similar legal scam is to land on a 3rd party service to do the ESTA travel autorization request on your behalf for a higher fee than CBP charges. We call it a stupidity tax. Many tourists fall into this
@@Fl4shback Here in the US, too. State lottery players just pay voluntary tax to the States without feeling like taxed. :) That is why those lotteries exist, it is a huge income for the states.
Every scam is a stupidity tax. So are a lot of accidents people die in. That doesn't make it right does it? Everyone is stupid sometimes, just a little tired/ already overworked is all it takes.
It’s not a tax because the money doesn’t go to the government. If it actually was a tax then I’d less of a problem with it because the money was going to the benefit of the public but this money is just going to some random person who scams people.
A very important video!! Same with the refunds for a late train in the DB. If your train is at least 60 minutes late, you can fill out a form online or on paper and get at least a 25% refund. The process is easy and free of charge. Lately there are multiple shady companies in the internet that claim that "the process is complicated and slow". And that is a lie. They would send the application for you and charge you with 30% of your refund. Fill the form only via a DB official website!!
I think it's pretty annoying to do, even though it isn't a lot of clicks. Thing is, even if you make someone else claim your refund, you still have to put in the data, so zero time saved xD (most annoying part is that you can't enter a arrival time in the future, so you can't do it while still stuck on the train). Also the last time i was four hours late I just got a letter telling me it was "external circumstaces" and not their fault.
Getting a DB late train refund *is* rather slow, but it's not the applying part that is slow, and you certainly don't need a third party service to do this for you; filling out the online form is done quickly enough - but it took DB more than a month to process my recent request, and how did they issue the refund? You would expect it to arrive online, by e-mail, but no, it came in form of a two-pages letter on paper in the post which included the code for the refund.
There's similar 'Scams' here. I worked for the CSCS card scheme processing and sending cards for people to work on active sites. The cost was £30. There are dozens of sites that charge up to 10 times as much for the same service.
I had one guest at my door pretending to be from the „NDR“ and asked me to let him in to check if I had any radio.. I told him that I’m calling the police if he doesn’t leave… He ran off after that..
@@xaverlustig3581 They still didn't have the right to enter your apartment or house without permission because of Artikel 13 GG. That's the reason why they often lied and told people they sell newspaper subscriptions or whatever just so you'd let them inside.
@@xaverlustig3581 But they had ZERO authority. They were just regular people paid to ask people if they had paid. . Lying about their actual authority was certainly illegal..
The same exist for the service that gather information of one's credit worthy-ness in Germany. BTW there is the same for asking for the visum substitute for entry in many Countries (I almost got into when filing for enter USA or Australia)...
It’s the same as the scammers who file claims for you when your flight is cancelled or delayed and then take a massive cut of the compensation you are statutorily entitled to.
The problem is that there may be legitimate reasons for using third parties. Not in this specific case perhaps, but if you're running a business and delegating a lot of the routine paperwork to, for example, accountants or PAs, those are the third parties that are submitting your paperwork on your behalf.
I think this is a case where it's a bit unfortunate because it could be a legalized scam in that it's a scam, but one that's legal. Or, it could be lawyers scamming people using their knowledge of the law. Both are valid interpretations of the title. In this case, it's apparently the former rather than the latter.
While I'm really mad at most official websites of the german gov and their services for being overcomplicated and sometimes stupid in design, the changing of your details on the GEZ website is really easy to use. Never had issues with it, unlike with other services.
I agree. But you have to remember that Google makes a living from it. Google sells advertising, even if it is shady. They have no moral claim that people should earn money in a decent way.
How much money did they make with this kind of scam? 30€? 60€? As a German I'd never think about telling the GEZ/Beitragsservice my new address or name (after a marriage). I'd tell this kind of information the Einwohnermeldamt, and then assume all public services know my personal information.
The "Feinstaubplakette" is another classic. Any car you buy should already have it but just in case you don't, there are plenty of middlemen who will do you the service for 15-20€ which seems reasonable - until you realise thing only costs 5,95€ if you buy it directly from the authorities- for example the Berlin, at the "Landesamt für Bürger- und Ordnungsangelegenheiten" and they will send you a Plakette for any car registered in Germany to anywhere in Germany (you don't need a connection to Berlin). But very typical.
The funniest story was that I was drunk once, and bought a subscription to a shady dating website for 200 euros. I later realized how dumb this was, and checked their terms of service. And although it is legal to waive your RtW, their ToS did not include such a clause. And since you can give any reason, I messaged them saying that I use my right because "I was drunk". They wrote back with, and this is a quote: "Unfortunately that doesn't apply here :'(" Well, I guess they knew that was BS because they never disputed the charge-back ^.^
In my opinion that's sittenwidrig, and therefore probably illegal, as: 1. they make you think you are in the normal process. 2. they don't offer any benefit. However 30€ isn't worth sueing, especially when you can probably loose hundreds for court fees. This is a problem with a lot of things, and we definitely need class action lawsuits in Germany!
"This scam [...] operates for other mundane bureaucratic processes [...]" Tor example the tax recondiliation form (or however you call it in your country?). It's perfectly easy to do, yet there are many companies/tax advisors who'll gladly do it for you for a fee. I get it why a company would hire their services, but as an individual with income from work and maybe if you are renting something (house), it's literally easy as hell in my country... I'm not saying that "processing" this "broadcast fee" is a service I would pay 30 € for, or that it is good/moral of that company to set a service like that.... Just saying, that there are multiple things that one person may find easy to do by themselves, and somebody else may be willing to pay 3rd party to do it (and also take responsibility that it is done correctly, I suppose)
For some reason my wife and I get this TV tax invoice separately. They seem like they are two different organizations representing ARD ZDF Rundfunk. One seems to be Germany wide and the other for Berlin-Brandenburg. How can I tell one about the other so I can stop paying both?
Such scam sites exist in the UK, particularly for the DVLA. They even go as far as to use the branding and website design of the DVLA so that you really think you are on the official website.
There is a similar "scam" for letting your paper mail, which is still adressed to the old location, be forwarded to the new location for 6 month or so. You can book this directly via the German Postal Service for 35 Euro or so, or you follow the first Google result and pay 99 Euro. They will pass your information to the Postal Service and it will work. But you just paid 65 Euro for some script Copy and Pasting your data.
U.S. tax services. I hear you can request the information directly from the IRS official web page (haven't tried yet), and it's probably not as complicated as they make it out to be, but that's capitalism for you. Lobbying the government to let you pay to have someone else screw it up for you.
Not sure if this is related, but I had to shell out 40 euros to an organisation that now seems to have its tentacles embedded into a huge number of services and sales activities and who you can immediately recognise because every one of them has a name that ends with the number 24. To this day I have no idea what I clicked to tip me into this trap - I'm normally quite savvy about these things. But there you go. Objections were futile and they kept their filthy mits on my money. However, in the long run, their cheap tricks lost them more than they made. It's that "24" thing. It's like a red flag now saying "Danger - Avoid".
Why does Google give you this company first rather then the governmental agency that you wanted? It is called a contribution, but it is mandatory. Call it what you want but if something is mandatory it is NOT a contribution, but is a tax.
🤔 Not really a scam, just offering a service that's completely unnecessary. Like when the whole PPI refunds era was in its peak, and a whole load of companies sprung up to claim for you, when you didn't need them at all.
I reported this and another ad to Google citing Google's Government Services Policy. Both my reports were turned down, but searching today I only see the official site. Have the ads been taken down?
A fraud is a financial advantage gained by deceit. I work for the financial crime section of a bank preventing payment fraud made via transfer (rather than using credit or debit cards). It's amazing how many people are caught out by this kind of thing, despite all the warnings.....
It is good you educate us about these scams but I think those lazy people who keep clicking next without reading the text, they do deserve to be scammed every once in a while - I am happy that this type of "legal" scam exists. At least, more people will understand the importance of reading the text before clicking "I Agree" to it! At the same time, it is good you make these videos to create awareness about the issue. Overall, we want more people who are really literate.
Meh, the official Bundestag website has a pretty good overview over who sits where, by which method they got their seat, and from which state they come. Including a well done interactive graphic.
Sounds like GovPlus in the United States, a third party company that charges money to file paperwork that you can do yourself for free directly with the government
It's the same with visas for various countries - plenty of 3rd party websites telling you they would help process evisa for you, just for a little fee. The added problem is that the visa do cost money and people don't know how much, and theses sites are often in better Englush than original ones, so they fall even more easily
and they are not just collecting an unnecessary fee, you also give them your address and bank details that they maybe (I have not read their TOS) also might sell for profit 🤷
This is somewhat a self inflicted wound by Germany for being too cute with naming and refusing to just set of a common domain name for official sites. This requires everyone to memorize all the names and know what is what. If Germany (government) had done something simple such as creates the domain “.bund.de” (as an analog to the US’s .gov) and all official government and government endorsed sites were under that, one can tell by the URL if it’s official. But no. Germany would rather name things like “Robert Koch Institut” where we then often wonder “wtf are they and why should I care what Robert Koch thinks”.
This! And it's just ridiculous how they didn't harmonize the look and feel of the official sites. It's very hard to figure out which ones are the government ones.
But note that neither the public radio and television networks nor their collection agency are part of the German government, although both were established by law. That concept is hard to understand for many people, but it was done precisely to avoid the public channels being a mere mouthpiece of whatever government is in charge. If you want to know more, have a look at what is happening in Slovakia right now.
It's basically the same with Nestlé or P&G, having an individual domain name for each single brand and branch that they own. Y'know, private companies being private companies.
I wouldn't call that a scam, more like an idiot tax 😀 Everyone stupid enough to simply pay without checking twice shall pay to do so so lon untill they learn it
I'm in the wrong business, I always wanted to open a American Mail order Bride company, but apparently no man wants a loud, demanding woman with no manners. Hahahaha If you are interested I have a few contacts, woman will come with kids.
Such a site is a clear cut scam in my opinion. If the site only exist to trick people, then no amount of disclaimers should protect the owners from jail.
This is less of a problem in the UK where the government have worked to solve this issue - one of the rare things that the Tories have done something right during their 14 years in office.
This used to be a thing a few years back in the UK. I think there was a bit of a crackdown on it though. They made the websites look exactly like the official government sites.
This some form of “legal” scamming I suppose. They aren’t doing anything wrong, just charging you for doing something that would be free to do. It’s quite ingenious in a way but I’m sure lots are duped
There is a common scam in the UK where you go to a certain place where someone performs something with fruit, veg, and meat, hands it to you and charges you loads of money. Something you could easily perform at home yourself.
It is more like going to get takeout but realizing that the drive-through is not affiliated with the restaurant and that they are actually concealing the real drive-through to the restaurant.
Sounds like a search engine problem to me. Google already has no problem blocking sites it doesnt like from appearing in search results, it should just block these sites too.
Actually they take money form companies putting these scam ads. Beware, as a Google user you are not the valued customer, but you are the product that is being sold.
Good PSA. The problem shouldn't exist if people didn't feel intimidated by the bureaucracy, of course, so any service helping them manage the system will be well-received. And there are other reasons. In the past I've used a service to get my Deutsche Bahn or delayed airplane tickets back. While they skim 30% (openly), they do also transfer the money the same day, instead of you having to wait for three months and correspond with an uncooperative company.
You can to fill a form to pay the Government a mandatory tax to pa for the public broadcast? Why can't they just take that tax as part of the income tax or something?
Because, legally speaking, it's not a tax. Taxes cannot be raised for specific purposes, so the government can't legally collect this fee as a tax. Also, it applies to households and businesses, not individual people. If you live together in one apartment, you only need to pay one fee.
So, theoretically, am I 100% safe if the website in question shows the ARD, ZDF, Deutschlandfunk Logos? Because those are bound to be trademarked, right? Using them would be illegal for the scammers, surely?
0:55 Dood. If I were to ask you “What do you call a _contribution_ that everyone _must_ pay for a service provided to the entire country but you might never use” what would your answer be?
A "mandatory contribution". By the German legal definition of "tax", it doesn't qualify as a tax: it's levied for a specific purpose and administered by a non-governmental agency.
