Donald Hoffman “We Are Living in a SIMULATION!” (354) 

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 *📚 Don Hoffman discusses the provocative themes of his book "The Case Against Reality" and its cover image, which challenges perceptions of reality.* - Hoffman explains the distinction between primary and secondary qualities as outlined by Galileo, highlighting the subjective nature of certain perceptions. - The evolutionary argument against perceiving objective reality is introduced, suggesting that natural selection shapes sensory systems to prioritize fitness over truth. 03:15 *🔬 Hoffman delves into the implications of evolution by natural selection on our perception of reality.* - Evolutionary Game Theory is used to argue that sensory systems are not shaped to perceive objective reality but rather to enhance fitness. - The limitations of human perception in understanding objective reality are discussed, emphasizing the need to interpret data cautiously. 12:57 *🧠 The inadequacy of human senses in describing objective reality is examined.* - Hoffman explains how the language of our sensory perception, shaped by evolution, is insufficient for describing the true nature of reality. - Analogy to virtual reality gaming is used to illustrate the disconnect between sensory perception and objective reality, highlighting the need for alternative perspectives. 19:01 *🌳 Different Views on Existence and Perception* - George Berkeley proposed a theological view where existence is tied to perception. - Berkeley's perspective contrasts with the physicalist view, which defines existence in terms of space, time, energy, and matter. - He challenged the materialist notions prevalent in scientific discourse, advocating for the primacy of perception in defining reality. 20:53 *🧠 The Mystery of Consciousness* - Consciousness remains a perplexing mystery in scientific inquiry. - Most cognitive neuroscientists attribute conscious experiences to brain activity. - Theories attempting to explain consciousness range from quantum mechanical explanations to computational architectures within the brain. 25:02 *📚 Balancing Scientific Inquiry with Critique* - The scientific community engages in rigorous critique and examination of ideas, regardless of their origin. - Concerns arise when scientific theories border on the fantastical or verge into pseudoscience. - Striking a balance between openness to diverse ideas and maintaining scientific rigor is crucial for advancing knowledge. 26:40 *🌌 Exploring Panpsychism and Consciousness* - Panpsychism emerges as a philosophical response to the inadequacy of physicalist explanations for consciousness. - Panpsychism posits that consciousness may be inherent in all matter, challenging traditional materialist views. - Variations of panpsychism propose different approaches to integrating consciousness into the fabric of reality, either as a monist or dualist concept. 34:30 *🤔 Questioning the Nature of Reality* - Reality, as perceived by individuals, is constructed through sensory experiences and linguistic narratives. - Philosophical debates, such as Kant's distinction between phenomena and noumena, question the accessibility of objective reality. - While evolutionary theory presupposes an objective reality, human cognition allows for conceptual exploration beyond immediate sensory perceptions. 38:23 *🧠 Reality as a Perceptual Construct* - Evolutionary theory suggests that sensory systems serve as guides to adaptive behavior rather than revealing objective reality. - Metaphors like virtual reality headsets help conceptualize how sensory perception constructs a subjective reality. - Evolutionary psychology offers insights into why humans perceive certain sensory stimuli and behaviors as beneficial for survival and reproduction. 41:45 *🎶 Evolutionary Perspectives on Music* - Evolutionary psychology proposes explanations for seemingly non-adaptive traits, such as the enjoyment of music. - Music may have evolved as a bonding and cooperative experience among social groups. - Analogous to "auditory cheesecake," music combines various sensory elements to elicit pleasurable experiences. 47:10 *🧠 Addressing the Flaws of Perception* - Acknowledging the limitations of human perception prompts a reevaluation of reality and consciousness. - Despite flawed perceptions, scientific inquiry offers tools to probe beyond sensory experiences. - Proposing mathematical formalisms for consciousness challenges traditional views of reality as emergent from space and time. 56:50 *🧠 Frameworks for Consciousness in Physicalist and Panpsychist Perspectives* - Consciousness can be approached within frameworks that view space, time, and matter as fundamental. - Perspectives differ on whether machines, including brains, can generate consciousness. - Physicalist frameworks posit that consciousness emerges from complex physical systems like the brain. 59:05 *🌀 Consciousness as Fundamental in Reality* - In some frameworks, consciousness is considered fundamental, not derived from physical processes. - The metaphor of a vast social network of interacting consciousnesses is used to explain reality. - Space-time is viewed as a visualization tool for consciousness, rather than the basis of reality. 01:00:00 *🛸 Reverse Engineering Consciousness and Space-Time* - Proposed is a model where consciousness interacts with a space-time "headset" as a tool for interaction. - The goal is to reverse engineer this interaction to potentially open portals to other consciousnesses. - This approach contrasts with traditional AI, as it starts with consciousness and works towards understanding and utilizing it. 01:01:39 *🧭 The Value of Attention and Innocence* - Attention is considered a precious commodity, often more valuable than time. - The irreversibility of certain experiences, particularly those affecting innocence, is highlighted. - Personal experiences and the impact of irreversible choices, such as drug use, are discussed, raising questions about their long-term effects. 01:04:13 *🧪 Irreversible Effects of Drug Experiences* - There are discussions about irreversible effects of certain drug experiences on neurochemistry and personal growth. - Individual differences in reactions to drugs and the potential irreversibility of some experiences are acknowledged. - Consideration is given to the caution needed when exploring altered states of consciousness, especially regarding potential long-term consequences. 01:06:44 *🚀 Advice for Venturing into the Unknown* - Advice is given to embrace learning, challenge authority, and pursue mathematical understanding. - The importance of humility, openness to new ideas, and avoiding dogmatism in inquiry is emphasized. - Reflecting on personal growth and the pursuit of knowledge, the importance of bravery and humility in venturing into the unknown is underscored. 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As someone whose gone through life with a constant disconnect from “reality” learning and reading about reality, consciousness, and thought has honestly began changing my life. No one or any circumstance in my life has made me suffer more than the way I view and think about my own reality. It’s such a simple truth but took me so many years to realize. “We are prisoners to what we know.”

Watching my mom wither away from cancer this gives me hope we are not just a bag of water, that we are more than our bodies ❤

For the love of god Brian, I haven't gotten much sleep the last couple of days. I just had to watch your conversations with these remarkable gentlemen and I'm seven hours ahead of east coast time (Europe). Yeah, I could theoretically wait until tomorrow , but I love Donald's work so I think I'll just have a spliff and listen to you and Donald . Thanks man.

Even in a supposed Simulation, we still experience a kind of Reality (which is highly debatable and we don’t understand it fully…….)

If we don't know what reality really looks like, and we have nothing to compare it with, how can we know that what we experience isn't reality?

We may be in a simulation, but the pain and suffering certainly feels real.

Brilliant conversation. Thank you so much Brian to finally talk with Donald Hoffman. I read his book, I live 10 minutes away from UCI and can’t wait to invite him to my channel and ask him questions about Reality✨👍

Got here by way of Bernardo Kastrup. Very much enjoyed this discussion, thank you, and I'm really looking forward to the audiobook version of Galileo's Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems.

Fascinating that he ended with the words "injuring my brain". Absolutely fascinating...

If we're living in a simulation than why do we eat and drink and breathe air, or get sick , and why do we feel pain and go from born to old, and if it was a simulation than why do we have to die. The question is are we really a sleep, all I know is dreams seem so real that I have to wake my self up to get a grip on reality, oh and I did break the dream world , when the person spoke back to me and smiled, I know that wasn't supposed to happen.

Discussions of fundamental issues are always significant. The extreme subjectivist principle, "Senses and concepts do not reflect objective reality AT ALL," is not only an exaggeration and, therefore, false but also contradictory and thus twofold false: To avoid the exaggeration, we should say, "Senses and concepts PARTLY reflect objective reality." The contradiction is that this principle rejects the objective value of all concepts and, nonetheless, uses the concept of objective reality.

Reading the Case Against Reality at the moment and have watched many interviews with Don, including his collaboration with Rupert Spira. Very interesting. The fly analogy in particular makes me wonder whether there are other entities sharing this reality with us, but our senses just can't perceive them, or block them out.

Simulation or not, our reality is real to us, and that makes it real.

I imagine we probably "spoke" in "musical" sounds before words. It's probably why it scratches an itch in the lizard brain. So glad to see your channel doing well! I was around early on and have always loved your discussions!

This never seems to get any further. The same claims about evolution were made ? 4 years ago. I bought the book a couple of years ago, but it gave only trivial examples of mistaken reality, like which line is shorter etc.

Thank you Donald! Really appreciate your views on this and am a big fan of your work so thank you! 🙏🏻

" Matter doesn't exist - consciousness creates matter"

Yes..yes we are. We still have to live here.

Why did my headset not turn me into a gigachad who just have tons of women and I look like a model? 😂😂😂

"Brains create consciousness...so we just have to figure out how that happens." The current consensus cog sci viewpoint. Just to emphasize a few facts in relation to this situation. Point one: The brain is regarded as the most complex object in the known universe. Some have described our ability to grok its functioning as something equivalent to the middle ages. Point two: As Don noted ...we currently don't even begin to have anything remotely resembling a workable theory of consciousness. IOW...nobody anywhere anyhow could even begin to explain how a single letter of a single word of a single sentence of this entire paragraph was created. So...saying that we 'just' have to figure out how it works...is just a slight understatement. It's reductionism...I get it...but it's worth remembering that Mount Everest is just a little more than the 12 letters used to represent it in a sentence.

When I dropped acid (LSD), I realized my life had just been an illusion.

Once again, Greatness on display! My comments are for Dr. Hoffman, in the closing question. I would like to assure Don that if his medication sends him into almost the Euphoric state, he is experiencing a state common with the Psychoknots without the medication.

Keating and Hoffman are two of my favorite scientists. Love this episode!

ANOTHER HIT from Dr. Keating! Hoffman is endlessly fascinating...great interview...Please try to get Bernardo Kastrup!

Any subject matter or process no matter how well known and understood by humans at the most fundamental level is still magic. It’s as if the universe organized itself to interlock with our senses in a harmonious dance of cause and effect. Religion is just a man made construct, but the notion of God is an emergent property of consciousness itself. God exists beyond our reality of 3 dimensional space and time. Every time we remember a past event we travel back in time. When we imagine something fantastical that exists purely in our mind untethered to this limited 3 dimensional existence we evoke a flickering ember of a higher dimensional reality. There’s no such thing as woowoo adjacent because the condition of life itself is woowoo. God is real and God’s real is more real than we are.

I'm kind of doubting that the transcendent experience of Bach (for example) is somehow a function merely of reproductive fitness payoffs. Somewhat speculative of course...but it would seem that transcendence itself is the more credible fitness payoff.

Why not utilize the model of reality that is logically implied by the existence of perception and reality and hence guaranteed to be true, the CTMU? Considering Langan has showed reality to be a "self-simulation" a long time ago up to model-theoretic specificity.

“We Are Living in a SIMULATION!” You poor people ! We will see if we can get you out.

Can someone help with my question. If the reality in my headset only comes on when I observe it, how does one explain a rock falling on my head? If a rock falls and I am unaware of it, until the point it hits me on the back of my head, then the rock had to have been present and in motion irrespective of it being directly present in my headset. It has to have an independent reality in regards locality and place. Thoughts please so I can get my head around his brilliant work.

I read his book. It's a really good take on consciousness and perception. I read a lot of books on those subjects last year. The Hidden Spring was a great book as well. The only thing I didn't like was that all these authors push their ideas very confidently, which normally wouldn't be an issue in a science book that has truly advanced our understanding of a subject with proofs or repeatable experiments.. but it's not that kind oif science. It's verging on subjective. It's plainly obvious that no one really has even come close to a complete picture of the way consciousness works, or, flipping the question on its head, what the universe is really like before its filtered through our senses. We are so far from a solution to the hard problems, let alone being able to ask the right questions about it.. until some next genius comes along with a completely out of the box way of seeing it.

Brian - great debate - Many Thanks. Several years ago I asked Mark's question at 1.10.28 of The Creator and I was 'channelled' the Guidelines of Problacism. My wonderful life since then has taken on a completely different and amazing perspective. 'Rational' people say '...they will believe it when they see it' - they end their life having never seen 'It! You have to believe it BEFORE you start to see it.

So when I shit, is this a simulation?

If you're a gamer this is not a big leap.

Let the subjectivity commonly called “I” or equivalently called “consciousness” author its autobiography as activity in the physical world. Let the objectivity commonly called “measurable physics” author all activity in the physical world. Therefore, subjectivity is a subset of objectivity, and “consciousness” is a subset of “measurable physics”. An experiment to objectively measure consciousness, or equivalently the subjective entity “I”, can be as follows. Obtain brain monitoring equipment and watch while a person writes a paragraph that uses “I” or “my” in a sentence.

Love the talk about psychedelics at the end. How is that not a major topic when discussing conciousness! Starving for more...

If we're operating under the premise that we're avatars in a cosmic simulation, then the notion of death takes on a different hue-perhaps one tinted with transcendence. In essence, death might not be the full stop at the end of a tragic novel but rather the prelude to enlightenment-a metaphysical reward program, if you will. Conventional wisdom keeps us in a stranglehold of dread when it comes to aging and mortality. Yet within the framework of simulated reality, one could hypothesize that these existential challenges aren't mere cruelties but tests-catalysts propelling us toward a more liberated state of existence.Picture, if you will, the moment the simulation 'ends' for us. What if that culmination were a mere illusion, a psychological hurdle mankind has erected against the inescapable? Could it be that death is not our damnation but our liberation-a ticket to a dimension unshackled from earthly constraints? The tribulations of life, then, might serve as a cosmic crucible, tempering our souls for a new kind of existence-an existence less hamstrung by the corporeal, an afterlife that’s a magnum opus of spiritual liberty.

Is this the first time Donald Hoffman has been on your show? Looking forward to his next book, I’ve already read Against Reality twice.

We are not living in a simulation; we are a living simulation.

Near Death Encounters often reference this experience is a simulation for our souls to grow and learn.

Anyone knows what the music at 10:44 is?

A better question than how consciousness emerges is how bullshit emerges

Our Hindu Vedics said this 5,000 years ago. Only God and its Light is real and rest is NOT

"I actually think the most valuable, precious commodity is innocence" I agree !

Excellent thought experiment .

Ok, we are, ok, so what changes now ??? No more taxes, can we file complains, can we start flying ???

So when we die is it game over or do we get to try again?

As someone who had hallucinations lasted 5 days no we only see the reality as far as our brain allows us to see. I has visual , hearing, tactile and just in perception general hallucinations, for example a noise from the vacuum cleaner I heard as a creature making scary sounds. I could feel the touch which wasn’t there including sever pain like someone is stabbing me so real I was screaming in pain. It was so real till now I’m not sure what was a hallucination and what real what happened that time

Consciousness came first.

"Simulation" implies we are something experiencing something else. This is very dualistic. We always end up sounding dualistic seeking to explain existence. The appearance of reality to us is neither unreal nor real in a hard external sense, and our mind is the "simulation" also. How can it be an object to the simulation? Existence has a way of being experienced by minds, while all being part of one another. Paradox is well known when entering this field of examination. This is very much the goal of Zen koans - the wordless experiencing of the Great Unity of All. 🙏

"Innocence"....I agree it is such a high value....

Regardless of how much I think I’m understood or understand other people, my interactions, due to how I remember them, were all illusions. Got it. End program .

Physicalism can't be disproven by better physical models. Showing that temperature is emergent does not invalidate the boiling point of water. The new theory have to account for previous observations. New physical theories may show that our current models are insufficient. An extended realm of reality will hardly show that mind is fundamental. Better physical models will more likely be useful to show that the mind depends on structures in the brain. I also disagree with the notion that truth goes exctinct. Our subjective view of reality serves a basis for actions. In this context we can make a lot of assumptions that are irrelevant as long as some important distictions hold water by corresponing to real differences. The ability to make these distinctions improve fitness and will then thrive. A relevant definition of truth for subjective agents should concern verified expectations of interactions with the surroundings. Not demand an objective representation of reality.

i'' got my headset off...and the intensity of awareness led me to know that except love, the physical body is not ''pure'' enough to withstand a world without a headset (which means that you are everything and you have a body PS you are not conscious of body, you ''just are'')... it is to ''real'', felt something like ''death''... so after 3 days in and out of the headset I put my internal dialogue, my headset, and trying is that the ''truth''' ...and yes space-time is not fundamental...

''i'' got my headset off...and the intensity of awareness led me to know that except love, the physical body is not ''pure'' enough to withstand a world without a headset (which means that you are everything and you have a body PS you are not conscious of body, you ''just are'')... it is to ''real'', felt something like ''death''... so after 3 days in and out of the headset I put my internal dialogue, my headset, and trying is that the ''truth''' ...and yes space-time is not fundamental...

I don't know if there is such a thing, but this was fantastically good.

If we were in a simulation things would be good or at least marginally tolerable.

I'm ready to dive in!! ❤👍👍❤️

Evolutionary theory proves that we cannot know reality, thereby undermining science and the theory of evolution along with it. Brilliant.

I read the book. If this is true, how does any attempt at discovery of this occur within the impossibility of perception of “truth”?

Well, we are in a constructed universe and our true selves are living in a constructed body in order to experience this universe, so yeah. It is kind of a simulation. The real universe is what we consider the spiritual domain. They are the dimensions that scientists know is there.

Yes, prepare yourself for another, “Michio Kaku is out of control” video.

I wish i could find the On/Off button..

Dr. H- What would you say to a statement like this? Consciousness is not given to you; rather earned throughout your life through your senses and interactions in the physical environment we call ‘reality’. Without ‘reality’ to OBSERVE, there is no consciousness. How much Consciousness is really in a newborn baby? Probably not that much. Thx.🤔✌🏼

I think music and art in general serves as attraction for the opposite sex , animals also use certain things to attract the opposite sex like dance, presenting a pebble, males use bright coat/feathers and enhance their appearance during mating, birds attract by singing. Humans by having more complex brain developed a few such methods including art

if energy creation exists beyond the headset and the display is only transformation/permutations. is everything some form of temp/pressure invariant leading to a controlled variable for a gravity signature? 16:19

Fair enough if we are. But what would be the point exactly?

Doesn’t change anything. Still sitting at square one is life is a simulation.

Worth noting...that of the major theories of consciousness currently available (IIT etc.)...not a single one can conclusively even begin to explain a single moment of the conscious experience of anyone or anything. IOW...they're all batting 00000 (...and Don proceeds to confirm exactly that).

Whoever wrote the first story is not a ER nurse 😂

Criminally underrated interviews. Thanks for sticking with it!

About machines being able to achieve consciousness: The two assertions @57:31 then ...57:40 - seem to state the opposite: a) why not, b) then aduce principle reasons to deny that inanimate matter can "boot up" consciousness. Nothing wrong with stating both possibilities. I just would like to understand Hoffman's leanings to the hypothesis of inanimate matter transition to consciousness.

In regards to whether or not Deepak actually read TCAR, I'm assuming yes. I'm also assuming it took Deepak as long to think about his cover quote as it did for Dr. Hoffman to write the book. Lol

Great conversation. One thing that always comes to mind when listening to Hoffman is a question about the logic of his theory. Hoffman posits that evolutionary game theory tells us that our virtual representations of the world do not match with what is "actually" there. For this reason, our physical models, like spacetime structure, cannot be accurate representations of the "real world." This seems all and well, until one considers that the theory of evolution by natural selection is precisely a theory of objects in spacetime. From my view, it seems that the conclusion that spacetime is not real is illogical, because the evidence comes from a model which is necessarily embedded in spacetime. Hoffman briefly addresses this in his discussion on Robinson's Podcast. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-xJHljgqDAQc.html Around 1:19:00, Hoffman brings this up in a somewhat different manner, and claims that this line of reasoning "completely misunderstands the nature of scientific theories." He cites the general theory of relativity as an example, stating that the notion of spacetime falls apart at planck scales, and so the theory is incomplete. He relates this back to his work by claiming that scientific theories, like relativity and evolution, tell us about the "limits of your fundamental assumption" and that "we're using evolutionary game theory to show you there's incredible scope but there's also limits the very concept of objects in space and time." To me, this argument is completely unconvincing. I don't see the connection between Hoffman's claims and his example about relativity. It just seems like a logical error to use a theory which has some embedded properties to prove that those properties don't exist. I'm trying hard to understand Hoffman's position, and he seems to think that this is a non-issue. If anyone has any insights or other examples that might make his thinking more clear, that would be much appreciated :)

I like what you said about innocence! In mindful meditation you achieve a state of hypersensitivity, an increase in awareness and hopefully stillness by letting go of your preconceptions that crowd our thoughts. Its like cleaning a machine that has got clogged up by all the residue of the lubrication. Innocence is the scientific ideal state, adding no preconceived theories to discover a new fact but is this not idealism and that the scientific assay is always slightly contaminated by past beliefs? Anyway the metaphor VR head set is really cool I think your on the right track and those portals are closer at hand than people think🤟🙃

Prof *_Donald Hoffman_* says, akin to a virtual head headset when you look at an object it is there, when you don't look at it, that object is not there. This Truth/Dharma was said by Tang Dynasty Zen Buddhist Master *_Hui Hai_* using his parable of a seeing a yellow flower. (To paraphrase) he says, the flower is there because "that which perceives", sees the flower thus it exists. Without "that which perceives", to perceive the flower (object) does not exist, let alone its colour yellow ie phenomenon. Thus when the very fundamental principle of *_Dharma Laksana_* ( ie objects & phenomena) is understood & realized (not by conceptualization), One's ignorance turns into self illumination, to 'see', or realizes One's Buddha (ie True Nature or Reality) 😊🙏🙇‍♂️🌷

I don't think liking music has no fitness benefit. The seeking of novelty is aaim driving force behind our intelligence and music was a novel thing a long time ago. Creating new music and listening to new music tickles the novelty part of our brains and we're rewarded for it.

Humans couldn't evolve without suffering and learning to survive. If we were born into Heaven we'd never appreciate what Heaven is. I think this life is a learning curve for whatever's next. Imagine how most people would improve with a second life and the wisdom that comes from living in this reality.

Love listening to Don 😉

scientists half way to rediscovering kantianism, very impressive eye roll emojj

Looks like professor Hoffman is on track to theorize the akashic record. If everything in our universe is actually a recording recorded on the spiritual level where different laws of nature prevail then from that level we can see how our space time can be created. Time would be the rate at which we perceive the recording. We keep it uniform for sharing.

Regarding true structures of reality, a major function of our brains is to filter out 99% of the inputs, leaving only a limited set of impulses, that we can fathom and make sense of. Evolution naturally (!) isn't bothered with truth, only survival. Humans can only hold a limited number of abstract ideas or concepts in their mind at the time, so obviously we will have trouble finding patterns that span more ungroupable artefacts. Even worse, evolution is probably only concerned with "good enough". As long as we win over predators, and get to produce offspring, and infant mortality rates are low, there is no real selection mechanism in place. Yes, there will be room for further tweaks, but say there were a branch of humanity who could sense radioactivity. As long as there aren't major areas with dangerous radiation, sensing it represents no advantage, and might disappear from the genome over time.

How and why converge at some distant point I think. Why is the sky blue is the same question as how is the sky blue isn't it?

This guy don't have a together enough to keep the audience audience. Interesting enough, you my friend are extremely interested. And I have been watching some of your programs. Not including this guy, some of them are pretty interesting. You're a marvelous man too bad. You're with someone so boring. Too many games make people not interested❤

Even if our perception is an illusion, is it not a fair approximation of reality? Is not reality subjective in any case? I believe the imagery provided by the Hubbel or JWT does not represent an illusion, unless the universe itself is in on the gag.

Hoffman is disassociated from reality.

The Easy Way: Sing *HU* daily to safely alter personal frequency. "If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibrations."- Nikola Tesla.

Another great and inspiring episode. Thank you!!

Reality is really not reality, if we really knew what reality is we'd really realize that we really know nothing about reality. This sentence is as convincing as Hoffman is, really.

22:09 _"I would say that 90 to 95% of them take it for granted that conscious experience is a product of brain activity"_ How did they all come to take it for granted like that? Is that a product of their indoctrination? Like a religious indoctrination?

I love when people say we're living in a simulation like it's some new take on our reality. It's the oldest take. .

got to say that these guys haven't played games much. but great conversation

Just considering this from a purely sensory - evolutionary perspective. The presumption must be that what rules and mechanisms exist in the "real" reality, are mirrored in our evolution invented reality, regardless how removed they are? That is why science still works, because the underlying laws of nature are consistent. That might only hold true for classical physics and not quantum mechanics? We can't obviously know, before we get a theory for everything.

And the name of the game is 'Money Chase'.

It’s hard to even define Space and Time (try asking Bing ChatGPT-4) so Consciousness is even trickier. Is it a kind of Field Energy, yet different to Electromagnetic radiation, bosons, etc? But it exists between Biological Brains and nervous systems in a massive grey web. This could be where the paranormal, Love, telepathy and more, originate.

I didn't take dmt or drugs and experienced reality.

What you need to do...is get Don Hoffmann and Eric Weinstein on at the same time. Would really like to hear Eric's take on Don's work because he (Eric) goes on and on and on and on and on about how the world is in such desperate need of some kind of safety valve (off-planet being his safety valve of choice)...and in a very real way...the work Don is doing is revealing where that safety valve may be found. And it's sure not where Eric is pointing.

mr. Hoffman's voice sounds like Steven Hawking's voice software v5.0

"Feeding, Fleeing, Fighting, and mating?"

This discussion has really brought out the crazies in the comments