Our Irish amigos are back for another conversation with Richard Dawkins, atheist, evolutionary biologist, and world class rhetorician. Background images used courtesy of: Guiseppe Milo: flickr.com/pho... Luca Sartoni: flickr.com/pho...
This is why Christendom is such a blessing- If I had been born in 5th century Ireland, I would have grown up believing in the god of spleen infections instead of the one true God. "You only believe in Christianity because you were born in America." Thank God, then, that I was born in a historically Christian nation. I was born with the advantage of being able to hear the gospel very easily.
I am still waiting for Pastor Fiene to unblock my phone number and actually speak to me. But I make him uncomfortable because I am literally an Irish Lutheran. An bhuil Gaeilge fiú agat, Pastor Fiene? No ni labhrionn tu ach faoinn? v vii v ix ix ix i iii viii v. I don't cower hejnd screens, Fiene... be a Lutheran and a man like we know you are... vii vii ix ii ii v iv vi ix ix. When you are ready to again give an answer for the hope in you Fiene...
So nice to see more from these folks! My parents went off to my dad's high school reunion and visited their old church. The sermon was on heresy and the pastor spoke at length about Modalism...mom said she had to bite her tongue to keep from chiming in with "Patrick!"
@@ServusDeiNostri Debunking catholicism I'm more blessed than mary Proof = Luke 11:27-28 27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!” 28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” In Luke 11:27 that random woman LITERALLY said Jesus your mother is Blessed, but are Lord Jesus LITERALLY said Believers are more Blessed than mary. Amen and Amen _________________________ CHRIST alone John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. ACTS 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” There is only One Mediator between God and men, LORD Jesus Christ= 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus. Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Hebrew 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. Hebrew 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. Ephesians 2:18 For through Him we both have access by One Spirit to the Father John 15:5 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. _________________________ Work of God = John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” _________________________ 1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach Paul allows bishops to get marry, but catholic church goes against paul. Now these catholic will give a Verses from 1 Corinthians7 to say that paul gave the advice to stay unmarried. But they will not tell you that the same chapter they quote says 1 Corinthians 7:28 "even if you do marry, you have not SINNED". The passage literally says "young women, young men" and a bishop is supposed to be a Church ELDER. Mic drop _________________________ Jesus said Matthew 23:9 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And also said Holy Father to Heavenly Father= John 17:11 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. Jesus said call no one Father but still catholics call *pope holy father. Sad _________________________ Whenever a catholic argue about mary being the mother of God Use this to defeat the argument. Luke 8:21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Matthew 12:46-50 46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. 47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.” 48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”. Mark 3:35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.” John 19:26-27 26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home. ( Jesus basically said John is the son of mary, and mary is the mother of John from that time onwards). By the way sarah is the mother of all proof=Galatians 4:21-26. _________________________ We should not pray to apostles Romans 1:25 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Acts 10:25-26 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.” Acts 14:15 15 and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them, Revelation 19:10 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” Revelation 22:8-9 8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God." Colossians 2:18 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, You cannot go to Father through saints nor mary, you can only go to the Father through Lord Jesus Christ= John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. Ephesians 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. Holy Spirit intercedes for us=Romans 8:26 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And CHRIST as well=Romans 8:34 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Hebrews 7:25 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. It's Christ and Holy Spirit who intercedes for us not apostles _________________________ Apostles are allowed to marry, 1 Corinthians 9:1-5 1 Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 2 If I am not an apostle to others, yet doubtless I am to you. For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord. 3 My defense to those who examine me is this: 4 Do we have no right to eat and drink? 5 Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas? If Peter (peter is cephas read John 1:42) the so called "first pope" was married, why does the catholic church doesn't allow "pope" to marry? _________________________ The so called vicar of christ/ pope/holy father Peter called himself a fellow elder in 1 Peter 5:1, and as per the qualifications of elder in Titus 1:5-9 the elder is allowed to get married; then why does the "pope" is required to be celibate and catholic? ( when Peter was neither celibate nor catholic). 1)Peter was not perfect human nor was he a perfect disciple 2)He sank down while walking on water 3)Our Lord said to peter get behind me satan 4)Peter reject our Lord 3 times 5)Our Lord rebuked Peter for calling fire from heaven 6)Our Lord rebuked Peter when he cut of the soilders ear 7)Paul rebuked Peter for being hypocrite because he was acting different in front of Jews and different in front of gentiles. 8) Moses messed up, and he was a important part of Bible ( that's why he never entered the promised land), 9)David messed up ( and he has the Holy Spirit), 10)King Soloman messed up, 11) Saul messed up and God regretted the decision (1 Samuel 15:10-11). Hatrick (Saul then David then Soloman back to back messed up) 12)The apostles run away a day before Lord Jesus got locked up. 13)The early church messed up Rev 2:18-20, 1 Corinthians, Galatians. 14) Apostle John when receiving Revelation worshiped an angel and the angel said "see you do not do that. Worship GOD" Revelation 22:8-9 If these great people could mess up, why do you think the catholic church wouldn't mess up. _ Galatians 4:21-26 21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar- 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children- 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. Sarah is mother of all, Not mary Also the Church has many name like Christians, Evangelists, Children of God, Believers, servents of God, bride of Christ, but not once the Church is called catholics Changed the 10 commandments by deleting 2nd commandment, and dividing the 10th into 2 commandments. Also changing the real Saturday Sabbath to fake sunday sabbath.
When Paul encountered the alter to "The Unknown God" they who had been raised around countless other religions still knew enough to know there was something greater than what they knew. It was not until Paul preached to them and debated with them that they came to understand Who God was that they had an alter built to.
I suspect by that point in time, word had gotten around the Greek speaking world about this invisible God of the Jews. They didn't understand it but they wanted to cover their bases just in case. Kind of like Viking graves with Christian iconography and Thor hammers.
Donall and Conall: "That's an ad hominem fallacy, Patrick" Donall and Conall: ***Out does Patrick in ad hominem fallacies while being totally self-aware that their characters mainly exist to commit ad hominem fallacies*** And now everyone who watches this videos knows what an ad hominem fallacy. Brilliant! Hans does such a great job at teaching complex theological and philosophical ideas while getting us to laugh.
Technically Donall and Conall aren't committing the ad hominem fallacy, they're just insulting him. It's only fallacious if it takes the form "insult, therefore conclusion unrelated to the insult."
@@jdotoz That is what I tell people all the time and they say "Oh, yes... in that case I concede to your position and repent of being a battle-cat-twirler." You are right, my friend... but do remember, no amount of logic can convince Dawkins and make him believe the Grace of Christ to save his soul... (same for us, for that matter) Only faith given by God can do such. And faith comes by the Word of God. So while you snicker at your adorable athiest friends failure to understand basic logic, do remember that it is a childlike faith, a faith ready to learn, that will believe even the most outrageous claims that make no sense to us at all... it is that faith that will enter into heaven... For what Dawkins says here, though a non-seqitur to the question of God's existence is still true... if you had been born not into a Christian Family, either by being literally born and baptized at birth or being converted and baptized as an adult... you would have no knowledge or ability to believe that God exists either... So... as Jesus, who is God and who does exist and who is awesome says... "Love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you." If you are only nice and talk the Law and Gospel of God among fellow Christians, you may have some good laughs at Dawkins expense, but what do you really have? Do not the Athiest University Classroom Professors do the same about us? That is not to say do not give an answer for the hope that's in you, or to put your light under a basket... My friends God forbid that! But what I say is what Christ said to us... Love each other... that is how they will know that we are His disciples... Not by how wonderful our logic is, even though it most certainly is... at times... at times... well Let's just say a Christian Debating Evolution with Dawkins is like an Athiest debating Creation with John Calvin... But I digress... they will know us by our Love... the love we have for each other and the love we have for our neighbor and for our enemies even... And Dear Christian... if anyone ever asks you to prove that God exists... Tell them simply this "According to Scripture, God is Love..." and then love them. Soli Deo Gloria Pax Domini cies
I realized. The most painless explanations of logic, theology and religious differences I have seen. The video of the thief on the cross is near perfect. ( only God is perfect so there must be a flaw somewhere in the video)
"Also first year seminary students" I had to chuckle knowing many pastors who say the same thing and I struggled with acting like a know-it-all about whatever subject I was studying in college for a couple years (not seminary, STEM).
Granted, I am old and grew up before educational theorists who knew little to nothing about science, technology, engineering, or mathematics started lumping them all together as "STEM" so that they wouldn't have to teach Baconian "scientific method" and statistics rather than merely pronouncing Received Wisdom to be "science" and building projects (low quality engineering, but not science because not asking any questions) to be high school "science projects," but didn't the existence of analytically unsolvable equations (such as Schrodinger's [yeah I can't spell that on my keyboard--weak on the "T" in "STEM"] equation for just about anything more complicated than a hydrogen atom in a perfect vacuum) humble you? They don't teach chemistry anymore?
I remember the first time I watched a debate between an atheist and a Christian. It was Dawkins vs. William Lane Craig. I was so struck by the fact that Dawkins didn't even attempt to refute the very well-articulated points made by Craig. It seemed to me that his argument basically boiled down to "If God exists, he's a mean, vindictive bully and I don't like him, so therefore he can't exist." At the end of it, I remember thinking "Wait...is that it? That was the best they could do?"
@@calebjore3295 Maybe you're right. It probably was Hitchens. I'll have to look to be sure, but I might've fallen victim to a bit of the Mandela Effect there.
@@phillipandrew6991 There's a good chance it was Hitchens. He failed to address most of WLC's arguments. Even though I disagree with some of WLC's methodology, that debate was not a good showing for atheism. [insert obligatory note that there are better atheists out there]
My Atheist family members: "you only believe in God because that's how *you* were raised." Me: *a convert to Catholicism and the only practicing Christian in my family* Also my Atheist family members: "why are you forcing your children to pray? We were never forced to pray growing up."
I am ex-catholic. You can force your kids to pray all you want. Its no assurance that they will not become atheist in the future. There are positives about praying as a family. I will agree there. As children, its best they dont know the truth. I prefer kids believe santa claus is real. Its easier to control the kids that way.
So, Dawkins could say it better, by saying if you ARE Christian in a Christian country, Its highly likely you were either born into a Christian family or indoctrinated by a Christian community. Yes, there are Chinese Christians, but they just want to be special and not be the same as every other Chinese person. Its about probability not absolutes. So, If you are born Chinese, you have a 61% chance of being an atheist, and 26% chance of being Taoist, 6% chance of being Buddhist only 6% probability of being a member of one of the other worlds religions. So, if you are Chinese and live in china, you are extremely lucky to NOT be an atheist.
@@leahcimnaerc9543 seems you missed the entire point of the video. The probability of a given individual believing in God has no bearing on the question of whether God exists. Nor does your attribution of impure motives - whether "just wanting to be special" or as a means of "control" - address that question. Seems to me you are desperately attempting to justify your own disbelief by appealing to the same logical fallacies the above video lampoons. Nor does your status as an "ex-catholic" say anything about the value of my teaching my kids to pray. Clearly you are unhappy. Otherwise why spend time watching Christian videos and bothering Christians with inane comments?
@@carissstewart3211 Arguments self-justifying. I learn things through argument and discussion. The more I argue with the likes of you the more I will learn. I physically can not watch this video properly. I just sampled it a small amount then just proceeded to the comment section to argue. This video is so reta-rd ed it causes physical pain.
@@Sousabird Actually we had very little going on... and we were bored. And it is spooky out there! Good thing Padraig came and Taught us about Jesus and how to fight off Crom Cruach and the Morrigan.
There are a lot of semi-random patron saints. Maybe not quite so esoteric as walking sticks, but the weirdest I found after a quick look was Adrian of Nicomedia, the patron saint of Arms Dealers. Not as nefarious as it sounds, but still seems random.
@@bitcoinweasel9274 yeah... Pastor fiene won't even answer my calls anymore... Ta Gaeilge fiu agam! vii vii ix ii ii v iv vi ix ix. That is his personal number if you want to talk theology with him. He won't talk to me because I make him uncomfortable... He is a good Christian...Help remind him with me?
6 minutes of video in the last seven months, I don’t know how to find the time to keep up with all the content- all in good fun, every video on this channel is a joy and education, thank you!
Always watch Lutheran Satire till the very end. There's a gem at the end of Two Faces of Catholicism video. As a former Catholic- these guys have a good handle on Catholic culture. They never fail to make me laugh.
Why did this take 8 years to come out! We want more! We need more! Could we support an entire series that we could share and be used as a teaching resource? This goes down well in Ireland BTW!
At last my prayers have been answered! More of our favorite Irish illiterates! I love the channel and show it to anyone I can. Especially the video about the Prosperity preacher who is possessed (seriously, even non-comedic pastors are starting to think that might be possible; the dudes eyes are creepy). Keep making us laugh while teaching the faith. :)
I love your videos man, you defend the true doctrine in a very funny way, and I use your videos for practicing my listening, so please I would apreciate if you enable the subtitles to all your videos.
Thing is, Satan really doesn’t care if you believe in God or not. As Long as the people who claim to believe don’t adjust their life to conform to the existence of God, the practical effect is the same. In fact, an honest atheist is often easier to convince than a lukewarm “believer“
@@loydgravitt7733 I think the devil would rather you didn't believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob. But a defective substitute/imposter to shove you down the wrong path will work too.
I have been watching a lot of your videos lately. So far I really enjoy them. Just a friendly heads up, RU-vid currently has "The Churchy Fruits Learn About Courage" posted as a children's video.
The problem with Dawkins is that he has no philosophy training, so when it comes to arguing through logical statements he utterly fails. Even other atheists that do have a training in philosophy have trash him and his arguments.
"People are not on a truth quest, but on a pleasure quest." Frank Turek He also recommends asking, "If Christianity were really true, would you become a Christian?" How they answer depends on if you're going to waste your time, or not.
Person I knew "it's not that I'm an atheist it's that I don't care" he was also the author of such comments as "even if there was evidence of the Christian God I wouldn't worship him because he is cruel" seems like a good example of people who reject the premise outright not because of any arugement or evidence
I am religious, as well as a scientist, and I think you made a lot of great points I think the best argument I've heard from the particular camp you're addressing here is the falsifiability dilemma. Evolution is a hypothesis for how plants and animals and bacteria came to have the traits they do. It can be tested, and if one of its predictions fails, then the theory is either incomplete or false. In religion, the existence of God is often seen as a given. We can make predictions off of this theory: prayers will be answered, angels will be observed, miracles will be performed. However, when those DON'T seem to be happening in the eyes of many an observer, what is the typical religious explanation? "God's ways are not your ways." This creates a dilemma. It's impossible to prove that God doesn't exist, because inconsistencies can always be explained away by His agency. If the theory fails, it's just not God's timing. And that makes it difficult for some people to respect the theory. The Cosmology community is facing such a dilemma right now. The new JWST images appear to violate nearly every prediction made by the Big Bang Theory. In most scientific fields, this would be seen as falsifying the theory. However, the BBT has become so deeply engrained in Cosmology that most of the researchers are willing to acknowledge the possibility that it is wrong. They are desperately grasping onto their misplaced faith, instead of exploring alternative explanations. Probably the big difference there is that unlike with a lot of Christians, they are unlikely to carry these sentiments to their grave. If recent results are to be believed, in a couple years time everyone will acknowledge the Big Bang was a pleasant fantasy. However, a true Christian convert will often claim nothing will ever be able to shake their faith, no matter what, because it "must be of the Devil if it does."
"The Cosmology community is facing such a dilemma right now." I would say it is a bit more than just -- a dilemma! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-m81gw_3VH8c.html
I think that using "God's ways are not your ways" is not at all explaining anything, but is a cop-out for someone who doesn't have the ability to explain. And besides, the verse which that comes from, Isaiah 55, is talking about Israel, the people of God, and not some vague appeal to the mystery of God. In Isaiah 55, God notes that their ways lead not to satisfaction, and that they have unrighteous thoughts. But that he is ready to abundantly pardon them if they seek him. Their thoughts are of unrighteousness, God's thoughts are of mercy. In verse 5, he wants them to be a light for other nations to come to; God has elected them to bring forth "the Holy One of Israel", Jesus Christ. The essence of Isaiah 55:8 is that God is ready to forgive, going to great lengths to do so, whereas their ways are not to readily forgive, but to say that there are those who are beyond forgiveness (think of the book of Jonah). See the following chapter, Isaiah 56, for elaboration. As for convincing unbelievers of the Bible, it never says to use miracles or answered prayer as evidence. In fact, that is what the Israelites required as evidence that God was involved in a matter. Gentiles are different. They require wisdom. "the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness" But Christians are not to preach wisdom alone, or to preach miraculous signs, but to preach the crucifixion, which admittedly sounds like foolishness to the very unbelievers being preached to. The convincing is done in two ways: 1. Showing that Jesus is the Christ, both using old and new testament. (Acts 18:28, 28:23) 2. Using scripture ("prophecy") to morally convict the unbeliever of the state of their heart. (See below, 1 Corinthians 14:23-25) 23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
@@TarkynSharples2 the problem with that first way of convincing, when actually trying to enter a debate, is that it results in circular reasoning. "God exists because the scriptures say so." But where did the scriptures come from? God! So if they already don't believe you, the scriptures are not a credible source to them. If they are true texts, then Jesus is indeed the Christ. To most Americans and Europeans that is a given (besides Jews). The second way of convincing also doesn't hold up in a debate. Dawkins would claim that you only feel guilty when hearing scripture because of the way you were brought up, that the good behavior the Bible promotes was already part of a cultural ideal that maybe you didn't have as much motivation to live up to before. So then, what is it that actually converts a person? From my experience as a missionary, it's two things. One: they need to follow God's commandments, and look to the fruits of their labors. If they be good, the commandments are of God. This is why commandments that are difficult to understand are a blessing: when following them still works out for you, it is an evidence to you that what you have been taught is true. The more important thing to do, though, is to listen to the whisperings of the Holy Spirit. God wants all his children to listen to Him, to repent and to be forgiven. Thus, if you rid your life of unclean things and listen, you will be able to hear His pleas. This feels different to different people (another problem when arguing with a scientist, admittedly), but even people raised Buddhist can tell when they feel something different.
I think the Theory of evolution has been taken wrong from its inventors and been spewed wrong ever since like all the famous myths. they did not intend to say we morphed from worms. they did say genes are passed down. which can still not mean we came "from them". it was a study in Adaptation and the Survival of the Fittest. We were fit and outlasted the Cro-Magnons and others. I dont recall in "college" learning they inferred we morphed or "became" another species. In fact the theory confirms all species have different DNA. SO why do we freak and say I didnt come from an ape? And others defend that we do? The theory was not stating we "came" from them but is it states we are ancestors. but that is inaccurate semantics. Relatives? maybe. so too many defend or attack the theory for entirely wrong reasons. from what we know, homo sapiens existed at same time as some of the other homos....well...you know....lol...
So, Dawkins could say it better, by saying if you ARE Christian in a Christian country, Its highly likely you were either born into a Christian family or indoctrinated by a Christian community. Yes, there are Chinese Christians, but they just want to be special and not be the same as every other Chinese person. Its about probability not absolutes. So, If you are born Chinese, you have a 61% chance of being an atheist, and 26% chance of being Taoist, 6% chance of being Buddhist only 6% probability of being a member of one of the other worlds religions. So, if you are Chinese and live in china, you are extremely lucky to NOT be an atheist.
This video is more broadly important than you might think. In my experience, the new "deconstructionist" fad of Christians leaving the faith almost always comes down to some Christians they know being hateful, uncritical, or weak. It is never because of the character of God or any critical look at historical and spiritual truth. Recongizing that and being able to call out the non sequitur is important, because so many deconstructing Christians think they're doing so using "facts and logic" when their argument holds no logical connection.
@@ramigilneas9274Did you ever look yourself? There's archeological evidence, that is places that critics once denied being found. Jericho's walls crumbling in a way remniscant of the biblical record, King David's house being mention in foreign records, ancient records found in Nineveh's ruins matching a story in 2 Kings, etc. Plus, we know thanks to non-Christian sources like Josephus that Jesus really existed. And the easiest way for the Jewish priests and the Romans to stop the spread of Christianity would be to produce Christ's body, which they couldn't do because it was missing. And the Apostles were tortured and executed for spreading the gospel. You'd think one of them would've cracked if it was all a lie. But they didn't.
Now this is what I want as an agnostic. This is how I imagine a productive debate on religious matters. Although I must say that not much of my position has yet changed since the arguments deconstructed here aren't what holds me away from religion.
I've found that there's an interesting phenomenon: Seminary Students *trying really hard NOT to* be the stereotype of a first-year seminary student. It's equally obnoxious IMO.
I am Protestant convert to Orthodox Christianity. So why, you may ask, why have I been attending Lutheran (LCMS) services? Very simple: because of Donall and Conall! Buy you lads a pint at the inn??!!
