Downtube Shifters in 2023?! 

Nice tips! I've also seen people take the remaining length and put the cable head directly into the barrel adjustor on the derailleur, tension it to which gear you want to be in, and wind the excess into a loop. That actually works well for a budget single speed, too!

I like the cut of your jib sir

Haha yeah right, downtube shifters are zéro maintenance but they can’t handle actual bad weather abuse like 105 lever shifters for example, had two cold rides in the rain on old campagnolo downtube shifters and one brusque shift made it break in 2 pieces

@@hopfag6555 I'll take "Things that never happened" for $1000 Alex... I rode Ene downtube shifters through 5 years of Wisconsin winters on a commuter that literally never came inside. Never a single issue. I have never had indexed shifters of any kind or quality that could take that kind of a beating and still perform without issue. In fact those same Ene shifters are currently on an Ogre built for offroad touring (now on shifter pods on the handlebars) and they get absolutely abused and they've never failed me. I have 90s Trek frames with Shimano downtube shifters that still work like new. There are very few moving parts and unless they take a hard direct hit I've never known a decent quality downtube shifter to fail, definitely can't say the same for indexed lever shifters.

@@hopfag6555You’re one example is countered by untold thousands of examples of downtube shifters just working in all kinds of conditions. Must be more to the story. Care to tell?

@@CountryB4Party well downtube shifters especially more performant models are not full metal and they got some kind of ceramic texture in the inside which all broke with a brusque load even if it wants heavy in any way… this is not the first exemple of those downtube shifters failing especially shimano’s

@@hopfag6555 "performant medals?" what meaning lightweight and brittle? Just have proper metal ones.. Campagonolo are not necessarily of decent quality metal, mainly just crafted to look nice and with relatively good engendering tolerances. A lot of "fancy shmancy" French and Italian components do actually just shear of and break sooner or later. If you want old school European metal then English or German seem to hold up much better over decades of aging, otherwise Japanese/Taiwanese of course is generally decent.

Thanks!

Every great bike should live through several incarnations

Likewise, loads of other possibilities too, cheap, lightweight, drop levers and v's, although they suck in traffic.

What people forget is how much weight brifters add to the handle bars. Downtube shifters all the time.

Stop the world, i wanna get off.

Really? I'm shifting in the drops without taking hands off the bars with brifters and maintaining complete control over the bike. I have friction downtube shifters on my commuter. It's never as easy to shift. What it is is reliable and light

I had the ball end come off the cable on my rear dura ace brake/shift lever. I replaced the cable and went on a ride with some friends. It turns out that ball end of the cable jammed somehow into the lever and caused all kinds of problems. Sometimes it would work ok but most of the time on the ride I had a two speed bike. Trying to figure out the problem and getting that ball end out of the brake lever was horrible. It never would have happened if I had down tube friction shift levers. Sometimes less is more.

The digital screen is a detriment to a quality life, if you do not recognize its danger and treat it accordingly. The bicycle and its usefulness is not appreciated in a larger world seduced into mental illness by and of Digital madness.

​@@ellerybice3787the portable internet of today is a tool for democracy, especially when totalitarian forces dominate broadcast media.

What arr you talking about? ​@@ellerybice3787

amen

So true. You don't need a ton of tech to have a nice riding bike. Not all riders are trying to win races and searching for marginal gains. Most people just want a nice and practical bike without breaking the bank. Sometimes the best bike is the one you forget about when riding it.

N+1

I have a full set lying dormant in my parts bin. I also have a naked one on my keychain for the Bus.

I'm still using various Sun Tour ratcheting shifters, down tube and bar con shifters. I had Dura Ace 7400, the 1st SIS. They still function well on my old Ron Cooper. You can literally shift during a full sprint. It was like night and day compared to my old Campy NR. But what really made the biggest difference for wide range shifting gears and touring was the modern ramped and pinned gears, modern chains and slant parallelogram derailleurs. Using this stuff with ratcheting shifters is still awesome. Those Simplex Retros are the holy grail! I'd love to have a set, but the rest of my old junk hasn't worn out yet.

Thanks for the kind words! We'd love to see the final build, so send over pics when it's done!

Brifters also break cables far more often and they're literally like clockwork inside. There are dozens of tiny little complex parts to wear out, become dirty and gunked up. An innocent little crash can damage brifters, then it costs hundreds to replace them. Even more so if theyre hydraulic and or electronic. Don't EVER disassemble a brifter unless you're a great mechanic in need of a real challenge. Meanwhile, my ratcheting friction shifters of various types are ALL 35 to over 50 years old and function perfectly with hardly any maintenance. Such a great value!!

Thanks for the kind words!

My original build did have Campagnolo! velo-orange.com/blogs/theveloorangeblog/lets-talk-rando-builds In my years in the industry, I only use torque wrenches on carbon bits. Just a lot of experience and a carefully calibrated elbow.

Thank you!

Thanks!

It's a mix of classic fit and modern front end geo. A bit slacker front end for better handling for long distance. It's isn't low trail, so it likes to be minimally loaded. It's the smoothest road bike I've ridden in years. You can find the geo chart on the product webpage in the description: velo-orange.com/products/rando-frameset

Ooo I was looking at those. I've used the 10sp Dura-Ace in the past, but they're rare/crazy $$ nowadays. Good review all-in-all for them?

@@velo_orange Absolutely!

I used Campy Nuovo Record back in the day. It was the benchmark. Their designs remained relatively unchanged for decades. If you knew what's up, you'd be using those Simplex retrofriction levers instead of Campy's. I tried my buddy's Dura Ace 7400 in the mid '80s. Indexed 7 speed. This was the very first index shifting on the market. Combined with slant parallelogram derailleurs, improved chains and shapesd Uniglide gear teeth provided an incredible improvement . Using it was like night and day compared to that old Campy. It was bang, bang! Exactly the gear you wanted, super solid, shift hard while pedaling hard. I still use some of those parts today. It took Sun Tour and Campy several years to even come close to that wonderful shifting.

@@rollinrat4850 that’s a speak of experience👍

@@JackY-pu5nh The indexing eventually wore out on my old 7400 downtube shifters. Now I use Sun Tour ratcheting bar ends with most of those old Dura Ace parts. The shifting is still great. I think what made the biggest difference in shifting performance (way back when) was the improvement of all the drivetrain components. Index shifting is just a convenience thing, unless you're racing and have your mind elsewhere. I think there have been larger improvements in terms of bike technology and making the act of riding the bike much more practical long term. I think water packs were a wonderful invention, also suspension forks and the LEDs used in modern lighting systems. A larger choice of saddles and handlebar shapes truly help you fit your steed. Those are some of the most important upgrades you can make to your bike and how it becomes more of an integrated part in your riding experience. These sort of innovations literally help me spend more time on my bike. My aspiration is to spend more time rolling around on two wheels. That's what I like most. Long adventures where I ride until I'm tired, hungry or sleepy. Then I stop, rest and do it all again a few hours later. What's probably been the biggest game changer personally in the last several years is using dynamo lights and hub systems. I've been riding mountains, trails and roads late at night, even dusk to dawn rides since the late '80s. We have a small night riding gang in our little bike riding community. Now, the time of day has no limit on my riding. I can start anytime and finish anytime. Batteries aren't a limit or an extra burden/worry either. Not for days on end in nowhere land. After I started using dynamos, I could not believe I waited as long as I did to get one. One of my lights can even recharge my devices or my rechargeable headlamp during the day! Pretty useful things for bikepacking far from civilization!

Many thanks!

Thanks!

And grease on the headset bearing not just inside the cones

Thanks for the kind words!

I like them because they are reliable and SILENT. I have a very quiet road bike I ride at night and I love hearing birds and things without the freewheel sizzle or hard clanking shifts.

He already got the bike and is loving it! Check out Nic on IG to follow along when he does the ride: instagram.com/morajez/

Those are the best! Hard to find without spending big $$ nowadays.

are they cast iron oversized lead plated shifters ?

@@generalruler Shimano 105's .

Nice! Rustines used to make them, but I no longer think they do. They stopped doing the bike stuff during the pandemic to focus on their industrial business.

@@velo_orange Yup, I did a quick search last night and found a few international shops that still had stock. Will have to check out shipping costs. Think there's a chance of talking Dia Compe into creating some molds?

@@velo_orange They are still on the Rustines site and available in 4 colors. Sadly they want 45 euros for shipping :(

I have an 1988 RB2 with downtubes I ride all the time. Someone in the last 30 years put and old shimano 105 set on there.

"What's old is new again."

Interesting point. I feel like 10 speed (cassette) is the pinnacle of friction shifting. Cogs aren't too close together, but the range options and crankset compatibility is seemingly endless. And the derailleurs are so cheap and good.

@@velo_orange Same - i use the drillium crank in combination with the silver shifters and a 10 speed. Has been working flawlessly for years.

I had the same issue with newer cassette gearing as well, using both DuraAce bar ends and simplex retrofriction down tube shifters. I wonder if the larger 50mm pull on the VO shifters would give more precision? Years ago I always used ultra 7 freewheels for road but standard 6 speed for crits as it had more “room” for less precise shifts. So would an 11 or 12 speed chain lesson the chance of auto shift with 10 speeds?

@@leepin_lemur I don't think an 11sp chain would fit on a 10sp cassette. So I don't think it would help tremendously. I think auto shifting is a consequence of frame flex, too. But that's more in the front.

My bike would ghost shift when I stood up for more power. I think the frame flex would cause the cable tension to change in the slightest amount, and the chain would get close enough to the cog ramps to cause it to change gears. Now I didn't try every type of chain or cassettes.

Спасибо!

Interesting take. I found my 6 speed uniglide cassette with Dura-Ace EX derailleurs to be an excellent friction shifting experience. That wheelset cracked, unfortunately, so now I'm running with a modern 8 speed wheelset + modern derailleurs and I'm finding that to be a great experience too. Just different.

Glad our video was useful for you!

Noted! We've done it in previous videos, but will be sure to include it in the future. The yaw derailleurs are definitely outside the norm for adjustments. It wouldn't be the first option now that I've done it. Going with a regular 105 or Sora would be better for this build.

@@velo_orange I like the front mech that swings differently, that you demonstrate.

It is ok. I think Nic ended up switching to a regular Campy or Shimano derailleur because he didn't like the yaw. If I did it again, I'd go with a Sora or 105 front derailleur for this setup.@@ThisTimeTheWorld

@@velo_orange 105 is great stuff. Sora looks good but I haven't tried it yet. I have a pair of 3x7 brifters I might use next year. I likenthe campy style thumb triggers

@@ThisTimeTheWorldCampy makes the very best brifters and you can actually rebuild them without losing your mind. Their front shifter and their shape is hands down the very best. I've rebuilt Shimano's but it took lots more of my time than it was worth. I cant work cheap! I might try Campy's brifters out, but my 'old junk' hasn't worn out yet. I'm still using ratcheting Sun Tour friction shifters that are about 50 years old. The indexing on my Dura Ace 9 speed bar ends gave out, but friction mode works fine.

It's an 11-32. I don't have an 11-34 on hand.