Me: sees one Ms. Banner create *stunning* waistcoat and deciding I too must absolutely do this thing. Also me: Downloads Keystone and contemplated just burning the whole house down. Oh, but wait. SnappyDragon has a how to Keystone video! I watch intently and further contemplate 🤔 life and said video. Yes, yes. I clearly heard the letters UTI and I’m fairly certain there’s medication for that. Conclusion. One should either be able to write prescriptions or be equipped with potent drugs before attempting patterning from Keystone.
Reading Keystone: Words, word math, words, number number letter words, math words. JUST Listening to you give these directions: Words, words number letter words. Watching you: draw the arm scythe, draw the shoulder, draw the waist, draw the darts, re draw the darts. TAH DAH!! I can work with a 1908 pattern with little to no instructions better thanI can decipher a description of where to place a dot. This was incredibly interesting, oddly entertaining, and very useful. Stay well! Can't wait for the rest!!
See also: The Modern Maker on RU-vid. Not sure if he’s guilty of eating newborns or defiling virgins, as no one ever …and I mean EVER mentions him, but he is a treasure trove of information and pattern drafting throughout history!
Oh you wonderful math angel! this makes a thousand times more sense now then again my brain was melting the first time I tried too read it! I’ll definitely have too go searching for the perfect walking skirt now
Now I remember why i haven't gone to drafting my historical garment obsessions yet. Because of ALL OF THIS!😵 I downloaded all the guides, poured over them and gleefully dreamt what the someday drafted garment would look like....then I gave a proper read through on a pattern I wanted to try, found it referenced 6 other things I don't want to draft yet (or ever) but need to have had done before attempting the outfit i want....🤦😵💀 My head is bad enough with numbers, but throw in a random alphabet (and I do mean random, there's zero order!) And.... Oy....you madam have more patience and understanding than me.
I'm using bought patterns for the rest of the walking suit, and this is why. Complicated as drafting is, refitting a bought pattern for my squiggly spine (without a helper) would be even worse 😭
@@SnappyDragon I hear you! I’ve developed scoliosis over the past 5-10 years, just in time to coincide with my obsession with 18th, 19th, & early 20th C fashion.... Utterly INSANE!
I made a pattern of this vest from the book and feel your pain. The first draft had my bust line higher than my armpits and I couldn't get the front to meet, let alone overlap! I guess they didn't like larger ladies back then 🤷 It took three mock ups to get it to fit properly, but it was worth the struggle.
GOOD FLUFFING LUCK. That's how I ended up here. Just spent 3h and.... Half way through realized they used breast indiscriminately to mean full bust or half of that measure. So.... You figure it out! Ha. Context clues! And then became completely stuck ("what are they even TALKING ABOUT?!?") 2 3rds into the first page....
English it's not my mother language and I was struggling a looooooot while training to draft this pattern, especially within the part of the scaled L square .. So I've come to RU-vid for knowledge... And you were the one who helped me... It was kinda difficult to understand you too... But it was easier than just trying to figured it out by my self ✨T✨H✨A✨N✨K✨ ✨Y✨O✨U✨
you are way smarter than I. I have the Keystone book and every time I try to make sense of it I fall asleep. Cudos to you for being able to figure it out. As for me, I’m opting to have my daughter( who is a pattern drafter by trade) explain it to me.
Wh...wh....what????? Mad respect that you not only figured this out, but you make it look doable enough that I might give it a try. Might... with a pitcher of margaritas.
Monday, midnight margarita math party 🎉 for point plotting and pattern making. Tuesdays we HAVE to sew mock-up based on drunken designs with hangovers.
Oh I was looking at the drafting instructions for waistcoats in the keystone book just a few days ago (mostly just swooning over them, not actually planning to make any of them -- YET)! I feel your pain about the armseye, I once (very stupidly) tried to draft their simple shirtwaist pattern and something went terribly wrong whit the sleeves, the armseye and the shoulder part. It took me so many mock ups to correct that (but also I am a very beginner and still pretty terrible in everything!) And also I think there were some typos in the book, I always had to double check with the diagram if their instructions were possible. But I still love that book it's such a great source for information!
I literally drafted this yesterday. Though I didn't half the 1/12 at the back and this explains so much now XD The mock up still fits fine though... I like that I can use the keystone to fit my uncorseted self and make a modern vest with pretty victorian seams and fit. Looking forward to seeing the finished piece from this pattern :D
You did a such great job! I made a waistcoat out of the same book and got so confused with the waistcoat instructions, I straight up taught myself how to do all of the drafts in the beginning of the book until I could draft with any measurements before going back to the waistcoat instructions.
Looking at the book on archive.org makes me think about what it would take to convert it to an interactive website which given the measurements does the drafting automatically. The instructions seem to be fairly mechanical so it should be possible in principle. The only question then would be how to get it on paper since most people only have regular sized printers. Maybe printing it on many pages then gluing them together would work.
That's how digital patterns work: you print off a lot of pages and they have reference marks on the margins so you can tape them together in the right order. You might be on to something!
I have that same mechanical eraser pen thingy and I adore it. Best eraser ever for attempting to get rid of lines the keystone guide made you draw for absolutely nothing
Wow. That like physically hurt to watch but I couldn’t stop because I was so intrigued! I’m still looking for the perfect vintage coat pattern that I could pull of in a ‘normal’ outfit for uni, can’t wait to see how the rest of this series unfolds 🥰
oh MAN im so glad you did this, im literally just about to start drafting a waist in a late 1890s/edwardian style for a fitted bodice lining, and i looked at the Keystone drafting and felt like chickening out it's so complicated :'( but watching you do it and explain what they actually mean by '1/12 breast' and such, is SO helpful!!!!!! thank you, you have saved me many hours of frustration!!
What are the odds, I made my second mockup of this pattern just yesterday. This was very helpful, I'm glad I'm not the only one who struggled with the strange order of the instructions. I was maybe going a little bit insane towards the end of the drafting process
I tried drafting a waistcoat myself from the keystone, and kept getting so confused. And then I thought that I had finally figured it out until my armscye was clearly way larger than it should've been. Thanks so much for this tutorial!!!
You, my dear, are a lifesaver. I started fine, then it got muddled and I was about to do that YEET THE BOOK thing, because holy guacamole that was a mess. Then I thought "I'll bet one of my RU-vid people did a walk through that would help me not yeet my precious book." and you did! And I now have a single breasted front closing waistcoat pattern sitting on the table. Is it tidy? No. There are lines, squiggles, erasure marks and tape (I'm larger than you or this draft by a LOT) to add paper, since my paper was a few inches too small in several spots. But, it's ready for mockup, and that's a win. HUZZAH! Thank you!!!
When you paused after saying "If you want to use the Keystone Guide..." I genuinely thought you were going to just say "Don't." Oh that is so confusing. I'm really impressed with you're finished draft!
I've been looking at Keystones drafting instructions several times because I want to make a vest! I've drafted things from modern instructions and that can be hard, Keystone seems to be some extra. But since it will be made for wearing over a corset I will finish that first :D (just procastinating tbh)
I tried to draft a bodice and a vest from the Keystone book years ago...emphasis on the word “tried.” Both times, the bottom of pattern ended up far too large, looking...italicized, with a wildly slanted front piece, a less severe slant in the side piece, and a relatively normal back piece. I always thought it was due to my disparate front and back measurements-using Truly Victorian patterns and their size calculation system, my back pieces were always cut from one of the largest sizes, and my front pieces were multiple sizes smaller, requiring adjustments at the shoulder to marry the mismatched pieces together. Thank you for this walkthrough! I’m not good at math, and this is a confusing system to use even without the typos and vague steps (which may be why I kept screwing up before), but I’m tempted to pull the book from storage and try again.
I was so stuck on the freaking square and thirds and fourths! Thank you so much for this! I did initially solve it with some math, but I wasn't getting a result I was happy with. My armscye was coming out really weird.
My mockup armscye definitely needs work. Apparently there is an 1891 Keystone that might go into more detail, but it seems like armscyes were one of those things where they figured "if you're reading this book you should know this already".
@@SnappyDragon Ooooh thank you for the tip, I'll search around for more of Keystone madness! I ended up making one pattern with a modern method of constructing the armscye. Just have to make a mockup and see if my Frankenscye would be usable 😂
@@SnappyDragon Hey, I've just found this: archive.org/stream/hecklingersladie00heck#page/n5/mode/2up You need to measure your blade basically from the front of your arm. Super weird. But if you haven't measured it like that, that might be your issue.
So the other Keystone book is here: archive.org/details/keystonesystemte00heck/page/8/mode/2up I started by trying to understand the first explaination of drafting a waist. Because, you know, supposedly that's the thing that all the other drafting is based on. It didn't help lol. I'm feeling very lost. This is definitely helping though. Hope yours is coming out well!
Thanks for an informative video. I am looking forward to drafting some vintage patterns. . .I think. It will be fun to watch you go through the process of making a walking suit. Good luck!
This drafting madness makes me want to follow in your footsteps. Perhaps I will zone out and plow through the math and instructions without getting frustrated by it all) It worked for the walking skirt!)
Thank you so much for uploading this! I started to draft this pattern back in February but just couldn't figure it out (first time drafting anything at all). Your video will be of so much help when I want to try it again :D
Same!!! When Bernadette put her video out she said in the video, “Keystone clearly details plotting these points so I won’t bore you with details. We will move on to the making of pretty things.” 🤣🤣🤣 I went to her link in the description box and gained a clear understanding Ms. Banner had just linked me to the 7th circle ⭕️ of hell!
Loved this process. If you are interested in getting an overview Diane Deziel explains modern pattern making beautifully giving you a sense of historical measuring techniques. I began with the bodice pattern. This didn't stop me from thoroughly enjoying this vlog it made the process much more interesting. Birdy
I've downloaded (several of) the keystone guide to help with my planned reconstruction of my great-great-great grandmothers weddingdress from 1896... Currently working on the corset from a pattern, but it's intimidating me so is kind of in time out :p
Thank you! I've been struggling with "the width of back" for hours! Measuring the examples, drafting to the measurements they provide (which still dont seem to add up) and the bloomin answer was opposing dia.53 (and I'm working on dia.1!) Thank you infinitely! Now: to retake my measurements because my E is WAY off grid 😅
As I watch you drafting, I amdrawing out a digrammatical representation of body to write multiple measurements on. Horizontal and circumference and depth measures on one (front and back), vertical measurements (the distance between the circumference/ horizontal measures on the next, and then the diagonal measurements. Surely with all of this carefully measured and drafted I will finally make something that fits my asymmetrical plus sized, short waisted, hump back, large busted, narrow shouldered body? I persist! Thanks for the encouragement given by your figuring the things that are written after you need them!
I got this book and a few other similar books about 20 years ago. I drafted the patterns in 1/4 size on graph paper to make it easier to work with planning to later size it up once I got it done. I spent countless hours just drafting patterns that never seemed to come out right. Maybe because I have a 10 inch difference between my waist and hip in a plus size with narrow shoulders. The worst problem was there would be a vertical line near the end that was supposed to hook up with a point drafted at the beginning but my lines would be no where near each other. And my darts were so big that the side seams that should have been on grain were on the bias and my draft looked nothing like theirs. I made some things but I never achieved a good fit. I did better with the skirt patterns. Over the years I keep coming back to it. I still want a keystone jacket but I settle for circle skirts.
THANK YOU! I'm currently trying to draft some patters from this book and the scaling for points k and L confused me so much. This way sounds much less complicated
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought Keystone's order of operations was wacky. This tutorial is EXACTLY what I've been needing in my life. Thank you V!
I'm trying to draft their skirt pattern, it's especially exciting because my measurements lie! So I'm actually doing it two ways on the same paper, the way it says to do it (which I expect will wind up with a waistband around my ribcage, DO NOT WANT) and the way I expect it should work for my silly torso, trace both, make miniskirt mockups of both and then laugh when neither one fits! :)
My recommendation for anyone new to drafting who wants to use Keystone: read all the instructions in the book before choosing the pretty thing you want to make. Most of these manuals are teaching you in a systematic way to learn to draft. They start with the thing that’s the most important and build on that. And as she showed, if you don’t read all the instructions first, it can get super confusing.
Great video, well done for figuring it out. Still I think for me I am going to try going back to Winifred Aldrich's book for some much needed points that go in order and then do a "keystone inspired" waistcoat :D
"Keystone, you need a lesson in order of operations" oh man listening to you trying to talk through the drafting instructions…what the hell kind of organization *is* that??
Thank you for suffering through this before I must. ^ ^ I plan to make a single-breasted vest after this book, so I now know a little more about the pitfalls in that. Also, you definitely need a cute crosstitch embroidery saying "Stitchy Business" hanging on the wall. ^ ^
You have no idea how hearing just how rediculous those instructions are make me feel better. I was half convinced I was just bad at making sense of instructions. Now I wonder if the author was also a hatter, only way all this madness makes sense.
Please, could you make a video for the sleeves from the Keystone? I've almost finished drafting the jacket pattern, but I'm nervous for the lapel I want to make, as I've never sew one before :D
For patterns that I can't find, it's almost anything, due to weird proportions. For me, my waist is about the same size, if not a tiny bit bigger than my hips. About 10 years ago I made a skit from a basic pattern. About 4 years ago I made a reagency dress mock up which used to fit, but no longer fits. This past year I made a self drafted skirt of panels of isosceles trapezoids that came out about an inch to big.
Did you notice that on the diagram, there are two different front lengths listed? How did you solve that problem? What measurements did you end up using?
I have to ask: how did you come up with the equation for the blade measure. The equations I googled for finding the 2/3 measure don't come up with the same result as your equation, and I am very confused.
A scaled L square... *that* explains why none of my attempts make sense! I needed a special tool! I just tried different methods that made sense to be called squared but none of them worked. Now I know why.
It still makes my brain hurt and this was after like three test runs. Every time something frustrates me this much, I film it in the hopes that it helps someone else
@@SnappyDragon If I ever draft this pattern, I will definitely watch this for help. While it's confusing, you lay it out in a way that should be really helpful.
As someone who pursues math-based research as her day job, the book strikes me as one written by a person who can do the math but cannot describe the math. A good technical editor would have worked out this mess.
Nidomhnail All hail the patient and talented technical writers who can get the engineers, and pattern drafters to explain themselves with enough coherence for them to understand it themselves, and write it for others.
Math gives me migraines!!!! I think I’ll look for a pattern; however, you’re doing incredible magic!! I’d so much prefer someone else figures all this stuff. I need a personal pattern drafter... LOL I do enjoy yr explications of the pattern insanity.
I tried to use this pattern draft, but got too confused when there were multiple points with the same names. Ended up using the Black Snail Edwardian Vest pattern instead.
Ooooo. Where might one find Black Snail Edwardian Vest pattern? Because in real speak, I have a brain tumor and can really only follow so many steps before I forget I’m holding a pencil.
"who measures front length from the nape of the neck in the back?" The university college of Ghent. Well, no: "all around the neck to both left side of waist and right side of waist over the bust. Then, divided by two, minus half of the back neck length." From step 'divided by two' onwards, it is the same as "from the nape of the neck in the back." Fortunately, we didn't officially go into MTM yet, and use standardized size charts instead. Doesn't mean I didn't do it yet though. And it's a pretty official professional bachelor. So very industrial. Like this is what the industry does.
Omg thankyou, I've been swooning over the patterns in the keystone guide for far too long you've given me the push -and explanation lol! To finally just do it. Question, on page 8 of the 1895 edition where you get the measurements on the blade\ front arm bit, it says something about "a small square with a short tape measure attatched" have you any idea wth that means? I'm at a loss and I've a feeling-as with everything in this book-it is important somehow
I believe they mean to use a t-square at the center back to make sure the measurement is straight and then use a tape to take the measure, but I could be wrong. I just fudged it 😬
@@SnappyDragon a t-square? As in a tailors square? They're massive though so that makes no sence and they're on about sticking it under your armpit and drawing it to the centerback. Mind, 90% of the entire book makes no sence lol why the heck would they have you put a paper square under your armpit?? Bloody victorians. I'll just ignore it then hope for the best 😂 have you thought about making the trousers in the keystone guide? I'd love to see how they turn out irl! Keep up the awesome content and Thank you so much for helping!! 😊
@@persephoneolympia3078 I think yeah, you are supposed to hold the end of the tape measure under your arm and to make this easier, it's glued to a piece of cardboard or something like that. I have decided that I will take this measuremen by holding the end of my tape measure to my spine (yeah, I can actually twist my left arm to do this) and then measure parallel to the ground until an imagined "side seam" under my armpit.
@@johannageisel5390 yeah i did two, one ddraft with the under-pit tape measure idea, and another with dropping it about 1.2-2" from my actual armpit lol and it did make a difference, allowing a little room seemed to put the armscye in nearly the right place but the direct-to-armpit one litterally went straight up in there >.< idk. its wizardary >.
@@persephoneolympia3078 I have just been thinking about it again. On page 12 it says: "From A1 - the back seam - measure out the "Front of Arm" measure to K.", and on page 14 we see, that the point K is in the lowest part of the armscye, which would support my hypothesis. (Because the pattern pieces are slanted on the page, the scye is also drawn on an angle here.) Therefor I am astonished that you found it more fitting when you used a shortened blade measure. That would have shifted the armscye towards the back.
Maths. Ugh. Which is why I’m just going to take a vest I thrifted, and make a mock-up from that, with a few changes. No nasty maths nightmares. I’d rather do five mockups than all of this maths nonsense. But my respect to anyone who does, it just gives me a headache thinking about it.
We’re the opposite. I’d rather draft than sew a bunch of mock-ups. If I ever learn to program graphics, I’ll release an app that takes your measurements and creates a PDF pattern.
I'm curious if some of the math issues are due to the introduction of 'new math' in the 60's, my mom has told me about the crossover she was in school for
This is the link to the first keystone book (1891) archive.org/details/keystonesystemte00heck/mode/1up That actually have slightly longer and better explanations then the 2ed (1895). I find it useful to cracking the code and see what whas omitted in the explanations. Still this videon helps a ton just simply because it's in inches and I'm from Sweden and we use the metric system... and learning the names of the measurements.. again
I can only imagine how confused and frustrated you may have been trying to read and follow this before you even started drafting and recording this for us.
I would just buy a pattern, honestly. Walking skirts don't need to fit the body as precisely as vests so custom-fitting is less of an issue. Also, their drafting instructions literally involve *stabbing your table with an awl* . . .
SnappyDragon I think I used a very solid pin in my floor. But I did like the method for creating the sweep of the hem. Used it (still with a pin in the floor) for cutting better gored skirts without a pattern.
SnappyDragon I have the sense and sensibility 1909 walking skirt pattern and have already made one version of it, but I don’t know if it’s the fabric or not but I’m not 100% happy with it.
Ahhhh, it's even worse than the walking skirt. A massive well done for making some semblance of logical order of the instructions. They obviously were never intended for use in the 21stC!
Keystone re-uses the names of points, which is indeed hella confusing! The points designating the bottom edge of the vest are named alphabetically from the front, so it's a totally new point E with no relationship to the other one. Hope that helps!
I was trying to follow the instructions and came dangerously close to needing to lie face down and count to ten. I'm heated just thinking about it again. I now understand why people just drape fabrics and pin every inch on the dress form.
