Like if you like Dragon Ball Super. Like if you don't like Dragon Ball Super. Like if you're bored. Like because... Just please. I beg you. I'll leave a cookie!
Honestly I feel like Super was made out of the desire to have Goku and Vegeta but had no interest in the rest of Dragon Ball. Oh and someone in the minor staff was a Krillin and Roshi fan.
JoshTrosh don’t act like the majority of Z wasn’t just goku and vegeta getting all the love. Gohan occasionally but even that was always side stepped for goku and vegeta to save the dayZ
@@Taima No, it was just as disrespectful. First off, Tien wasn't even the point in HIS recruitment episode, it was about master roshi.. once again, in TIENS recruitment episode. Second, Tien doesn't even do anything, it was just about master roshi and that useless magic girl, and when tien actually got to do something, he just grows arms and gets trashed by roshi, who got an offscreen toriyama handjob (which is pandering for offscreen powerup) Third, when we expect more action, he gets trashed by Gohan, TWICE, exists in the tournament, blasts a fodder cell guy, fights a bird blaster guy in one of the WORST episodes in the ToP arc, and knocks himself out for no reason, other than plot. So no, they did literally nothing for tien, in the entirety of super.
Not gonna lie, that shot of Piccolo watching Gohan really makes him look like a villainous stalker, and I'd definitely think that if I didn't know better.
One thing worth mentioning in Battle of Gods' fight: Goku opening up about how he dislikes the powerup is not touched on in the same manner as in the movie. While it's outright displeasure in the movie, Goku in this is far more lenient and joyful overral. I thought it'd be worth touching on given that it's something that makes the original version of the fight much better, outside of the constant scenery change and the much more frantic pace.
theres no reason to watch the first 2 arcs. it's rushed and sloppy. I mean, I wish they would in show, add a Filler inbetween RoF - to show Vegeta obtaining Blue instead of just having it. but... nope.
Ravathiel not defending it but it’s dragon ball, did we really expect the anime to actually show the development we want/need to see. Is it crucial to show Vegeta became God/Blue... not really, but it would’ve allowed characters like Vegeta, Trunks, Bulma and evening Goten to develop. We could’ve more of Yamcha and even more of Goku and Vegeta training together with Beerus and Whis. But no we didn’t need to see any of that
Rodrigo Nahuel Cárdenas The whole Goku hating his new form is such an awesome thing it’s a crime it didn’t get explored more!! It’s like half the reason SSG is my favorite form
@@antoniobrooks474 we should have seen Vegeta god against Zamasu tho. but you're right. development in Super? Ha. if that were true the first thing I'd like to see is Gotan and Trunks age up a bit to their "Pre teens"
It's so fucking good when Sean has fun with it. See also: Goku and Krillin in the illusion forest, Goku get Nimbus and hops on, briefly singing "Cha la head cha la" Tournament of Power, Goku vs Dyspo - "I've got my own tricks, silly rabbit."
B Kis cause he’s got fans who complain he’s not as strong as Goku. They are irrational, don’t know what makes for a good story and are severely lacking in the ability to think comprehensively.
@Porkchopsrock12 yeah. It's a dumb retcon. The dragon world has a varied culture like flying cars, normal cars, dinosaurs, animal people, people who are primative vs future cultures like capsule Corp.
Yeah, dinosaurs are canon in the DB-verse (they might be endangered though). They live away from civilization. We can explain that inconsistency away with Beerus' entire MO being half-arsed and lazy. He blasted a bunch of them and then went back to sleep.
Mark: hates an episode because a large portion of it was spent playing a potentially deadly game of rock paper scissors Jojo: has an episode where the entire point is a deadly game of Rock paper scissors
@@CitrusRev your opinion is wrong. Name me some so called "high tier anime". Bleach is for emos, One Piece is trash and doesn't have a coherent story, Dragonball has only gotten worse throughout the years, SAO is trash and is mainly fan service, Goblin Slayer/Berserk are only there for shock value and that is it, ATOT is not that good, & sailor moon is very outdated. Evangelion/Gundam had there moments but overall those are the real low mid tier animes. The best anime is JoJo, Corey in the house, Shrek, Samurai Jack, Rick & Morty, Jimmy Neutron, Ben 10 classic to omniverse, and One Punch Man.
Goku in Z never came across as childish. Sure, he made some very questionable decisions but they always had some form of logic behind them. In GT, they turned Goku into a child but kept some of his more serious aspects, in Super they kept Goku as an adult but made him act like a kid. Toei seems to want Goku as both an adult and a child at the same time.
@@zacharyearly4757 Problem is......Goku wasnt a funny child character. And when I say that, him being funny wasnt the point even though he was at times. It was him being oblivious to a new social aspect in life around the corner of his woods and asking questions while doing things we felt were funny or silly as "normal" people.
So many people in these comments not realizing Super Goku is more accurate to Japanese dub original Goku instead of making him the Superman ripoff he was in Z's english dub. Remember that Super Saiyan speech? In Japanese the literal reason he came to Namek was to fight. Not to save the universe from a great evil. All he wanted... was to fight Frieza. That's Goku's core character trait. He likes to fight. That's it.
I absolutely hate the first 2 arcs, they were so hard to sit through. They just stretched 2 perfectly good movies into a dozen 20 minute episodes. It drags and drags, they should've just left the movies are are, or just smushed both movies into a 7 episode prologue with a tad more story to push into the universe 6 arc.
Super as a whole is fine, but Goku is in it way too much. When he gets taken out, other characters get to have their moments. When Goku is on screen all the time, and even when he's not, you know he's fine, there's no way anything feels like it won't work out. "Waiting for Goku" is the hook of the whole show. And this doesn't have that
In Z, they knew Goku was a flat character so they usually saved him for last by putting him out of commission, while letting other characters develop and struggle until Goku eventually comes back as the Ace in the hands on the battlefield. So Goku's comeback felt more special. But since we see him so much in Super, we see more of his dumb antics and less of other characters as they feel much less important than in Z. And it doesn't help that Him and Vegeta are the only characters that really do anything. However Tournament of Power arc fixes that issue the the most part.
Waiting for Goku should not be the hook of the show. Most of Z's arcs can be summed up by those words. Goku isn't a problem in Super. He just has a few scenes where his characterization was handled poorly.
Yeah this is the same thoughts i have with the show as a whole. Honestly the whole series was a 8/10 for me, but the BOG and RF arcs for me are a 6/10.
Luc Welner-Monchuk it especially killed me in the tournament of power like after goku fought jiren for two episodes, maybe like two to three episodes later their focusing right back to goku again, don’t get me wrong I like goku but damn
I tried watching the classic Dragon Ball for the first time but its so hard to enjoy it at my current age. I feel like i would LOVE it tho if i watched it back in the day when i was a little punk
Personally, I'd sum these arcs up this way: They saw the extended runtime of the series format not as an opportunity to enrich the story, but a hurdle to be overcome by just stuffing as much filler into it as possible.
6 weeks..... for a full 30 - minute animation..... thats fucking unbelievable. The fact that they have cohesvive movement at times is a miracle in itself- those animation teams deserve a god damn metal.
@@saiyan_og9678 I am not a fan of that anime so I decide to watch that fight and...yeah. It is also terrible but the fight between Goku vs Golden Freezer is way worse in my opinion. Just watch the look of the original broadcast version
MegaNinten 007 Really so you believe the Goku vs Golden Frieza fight is still worse ?? I mean hey both fights sucked animation wise. Escanor vs Meliodas at least had better writing to it but holy shit that fight disappointed so many fans. I know you said you said you’re not a fan of SDS but that was supposed to be one of the biggest fights of the year sadly... Oh well at least Super’s production got better as it went along
Why couldn't they just let Vegeta kill Golden Frieza? Just let him beat _one_ central villain _one-time._ People say 'GT' stands for 'Goku Time', but it's kind of ALL Goku Time. That really bothers me about Dragon Ball.
That's why I don't really like Super at all. Super makes it seem like they'll give the other characters beside Goku and Vegeta time to shine but it never really happens. U6 arc Buu does nothing and Piccolo is just there to lose to Frost. Goku Black arc Is literally just Goku and Vegeta featuring Future Trunks and nobody else. The Universal survival arc gives Fodder characters for everyone to beat so they can get 1 or 2 episodes then get thrown out so the relevant characters can do stuff.
Akira Toriyama *really* doesn’t want to give Vegeta a win. It’ll cause people to hype him up too much, and Toriyama once stated that he hates people hyping Vegeta up
Think about it... Beerus took out Goku with one finger. Beerus took out bulma with one slap, while bulma is the only one to land a hit. Bulma is stronger than Goku.
Ruler Of Yore Ehh not really the animation for Piccolo’s death in GT was better but what makes it bad is that Piccolo didn’t do much in GT or anything were not using OG-Z/Kai-GT for it to be emotional it didn’t have any impact and they brought him back just to kill him off which what makes it bad but it meant a bit more then Super but that’s not saying much
Flame Wizard And then when he was revived, they didn't even show it if I remember correctly. I meam yeah, its not important to show in the grand scheme of things, but stuff like that is important to tie the world together. When I watch Super, I'm VERY aware I'm watching a show. In Dragonball or Z and even GT, I'm highly invested.
CAPA No. Piccolo (the nameless namekian) was the creator of the black star dragonballs. He chose to die so that they would be destroyed. Goku tried to save him but Piccolo purposesly stayed on earth as it was being destroyed. He even had a final conversation with Gohan before he died. Later, in the Super 17 saga, Piccolo helped Goku get back to earth after he was trapped in hell. Finally, Goku visited Piccolo one last time in hell before disappearing. In Super, Piccolo had a meaningless death and really played no role in the show at all until the tournaments start and even then he's swept to the side fast. GT's presentation wasn't excellent, but the story of GT doesn't progress without Piccolo at all even though he's not a major player.
Hey Mark, i don't know if you will see this, but there you go anyway. Episode 2 was something cool, from a narrative perspective, not because of the connection to Battle of Gods, but with the Buu Saga. There's a scene where Trunks and Vegeta are training in the time chamber, and, when Trunks reveals his Super Sayan form, Vegeta says that if he hits him once, he'll take him to a carnival park. It's a little fun nod, specially because Vegeta's trying to be with his family, despite going against his urge to train.
Vegeta and Trunk's relationship is handled quite well in super, and it's a much better take on the 'tough love father' than the common trope of screaming 'abuse!!!!!111shiftone' (admittedly this is just a continuation of Z) Another gem is Trunks doing the Vegeta 'MAN UP, LOSER!' speech to his older self during the Black Goku arc.
@Forever Zenith The GT death was just as bad, tbh... the only reason it carried ANY weight was because of dragon ball Z (as piccolo showed up like 2 times before then in the show and contributed basically nothing.) both complete failing grades.
@@AwkwardPain I mean GT atleast tried to be compelling with it. Super's attempt was a shameless attempt of actually recreating the iconic piece with him saving Gohan agianst Nappa. Hell it's so bad most people even forgot he even died in the first place just to show how inconsequential the death even was.
Regardless of what the fandom thinks of it’s portrayal of gohan, the Super adaptation of RoF did address and resolve Gohan’s training motivation problem, convincing him that he can’t turn his back on fighting and must be trained for any threat, immediate or not for the protection of his family. I appreciate The Super writers for doing that development, despite the embargo on his character for the next two original arcs.
I always thought it was kinda weird to give Goku a brand new power of Super Saiyan God, then almost immediately give him (and Vegeta) ANOTHER new powerup instead of using Whis's training to just hone their skills in the form they just received. On the plus side, it's good to see Mr. Satan being used in fun ways again.
I know a lot of people that enjoy dbs more than dbz. I don’t know if I fell the same way right now ( I’m on the chompa arc) but I would give it a B- overall so far, and I would give dbz an A
Anyone who still cared abt dragon ball had seen the movies. And if they absolutely had to recap them they should’ve either made them good or made them just a few eps for each movie
I understand the need to re-do the movies, but god, it's inevitably going to be worse, so just get through it as quickly as can. Now, adding context between is fine, like you said, the training episodes are a fine breather between the two arcs. Speaking of the Resurrection OOF, on paper, I like the change of bringing Ginyu back. He always kinda got shafted, despite having potential on grounds of a unique power and being, well, strong. Too bad absolutely NOTHING was done with this, and he's just dead now.
Speaking of Ginyu, and his special force, I disliked how the reuse the idea of their abilities for other characters (Ginyu's for Goku Black, Guldo's for Hit, and Burter for that speed cat guy from Jiren's universe). It kinda kills the uniqueness of The Ginyu Force.
Dead King in Hell Goku black didn’t use a technique it was a wish that anyone could do at any time. Hit’s is nerfed but he still does more with it than Guldo can.
One thing I didn't like for the anime version of BoG was how they handled Beerus' "destruction of earth" moment. In the film the moment remained serious right to the point Beerus just blasts a rock and Whis chuckles and says he kept his word, he destroyed the Earth just not a whole lot of it, where as in Super he feigns falling asleep and just shooting in to the sky (no doubt destroying some other planet) and these two scenes clash with how Beerus is portrayed. Super seemed to opt to make Beerus more of a joke rather than keeping him as a form of authority and that the earth remained because he's goofy rather than him allowing it to remain. Anyone else feel that way?
That's a big complaint I have about Beerus in Super. I feel like they pushed his moodiness a little too hard in the show to the point where he can be seen as an annoying character, whereas for most of Battle of Gods he remains actually pretty chill until someone makes him mad; I felt he was more likeable there.
Beerus: Are you mortals telling me that you ate all my delicious cheesey pizza YOU'LL PAY FOR THIS!!!!!!!!! Beerus: you couldn't save me any not one puny slice. Goku: we didnt have a choice that's all we had. Vegeta: it was your ass that trapped us there Beerus: MY ASS YOU DARE SPEAK OF A DESTROYER ASS.
i honestly liked this battle of gods part, it was good way to show the pogress! But man.... Resurrection F was bad.... that seemed rushed hahaha well some at least. Like stated some took waaaaaaaay to long!
Even more reason that the series should have been Gohan's adventure after the Cell games. I do understand the demand for Dragon Ball Super and to continue the Goku x Vegeta as well as throw in a ultimate Cat God. There is such an awful load of characters and no real direction with them.
@@RadarHawk I wouldn't say that. It's a literal mistake in animation. If we talk about stopping something in the middle of motion and then talking it bad, then I agree that it is nitpicking. Animations which don't really fit with their previous animations, that lead to them, are of course something to judge in an animated show. I would say that it's rightfully criticized. BUT Toei Animation learned from that mistake and DBSs animation became a lot better. Especially in the end of DBS.
People give super a pass like gt fans give gt a pass. I like dragon ball but sometimes (and often) the story derails to the point of confusion for me. But hey it still sells merch!
Super and gt both have their moments but in the end super didn't make super 17 who is terrible and is the worst dragon Ball villain dear God I hate my life it's horrible all horrible
Bruce Banana But they used the same Philosophy... A change from the past does not effect the present so I don’t know how they made it more confusing but okay... And the Goku Black Arc was really good from a visual stand point and it gave us a really good villain introduction and good Villain in general so I don’t know what you’re talking about..
@@Mike-xh2vm One of the major issues was time. when you have more time, you CAN come up with a better script, too (whether or not it would be better will never be known, though). I mostly wish there was more consistency between the manga and the anime... though both with ideas from Toriyama, neither were written or directed by him.
@@AwkwardPain I don't think so, I think it would still be the same, although that is not a fact I am very sure it would still suck, you would have to change the premise of all arcs to make it better...
I've never been able to really enjoy Ressurection F after Goku, Vegeta, Beerus, and Whis show up, the tension is just kind of gone by that point. Way more interesting at least for me was Krillin's little moment where Roshi has to remind Krillin that he's more than capable of handling the Frieza Forces as he's seen more combat than all of them. It was a great moment and I felt he has come out the best in Super, for me at least.
Not gonna lie...I like Super’s retelling of Battle of Gods more than the Battle of Gods movie itself. Don’t get me wrong, I really like the movie, but I’d rather watch the show version. The Resurrection F arc? Completely different story
Resurrection F is weak either way. Aside from Frieza getting Golden and Super Saiyan Blue existing, nothing meaningful happens in the movie. You could literally sum things up as "Frieza comes back to life and then dies again" and you've missed nothing.
@@lapplandkun9273 personally i like super's changes t their powers. For example the clash of fists between beerus and goku that eould destroy the entire universe verse i feel is a good addition to show just how powerful ssg and gods are and a good introduction to a realm of power that would change db in a somwhat good way
John Zhou couple things. I just felt the story flowed better in the show (even though episode 4 is an absolute waste of time). Everything that happened in the movie, which I liked, was given more time and I liked that. Sure there was some animation issues, but with the corrections on the dvd it’s easier to ignore. And I just felt like there wasn’t enough action in the movie. The fight between Goku and Beerus at the end of the movie is too short, and Super fixes that. Plus some of the camera angles in the movie during that fight make it hard to follow, which again is fixed in Super. Also...I felt like Vegeta dancing and singing, while funny, was a bit too much. Not a deal breaker or anything, but Super didn’t make him into THAT much of a clown. Honestly, the reason I like the Super version more is just a bunch of nitpicks. I still very much like both versions
BlueMageDanny Dude look up AnimeAjays “version C” of Res. F. It basically combines the best parts of Super and the movie into 1 large, best of both worlds supercut. I honestly prefer that cut of the movie over both the original movie and the Super version.
The two first arc definitely would have been a lot better had Toei gave its animators a whole lot of time for pre production instead of rushing the series. It also would give Toyotaro a bigger head start.
Exactly, his arm isn't broken or backwards, he just turned it to catch the blow. However, he could still just have put is hand the other way and it would have looked more natural.
Check 12:21 and look at how he catches Beerus’ hand, and then look at 12:23 when it zooms out. His hand is in a different position compared to when he first caught Beerus’ hand
I hate DBS vegeta he doesn't even feel developed from dbz,he's just the same vegeta before Near the end of the buu saga,even DBGT gave him more character growth.
Vegeta may had the best development out of super but that isn't really the best. He was basically recycling his Late Android Arc mixed with his Late Buu Saga arc. GT Did show his much more mellowed out demeanor and actually has the sense that he really isn't in it for himself when he shows up in the Shadow Dragon Arc, which know doubt you already know.
Vegeta had no character development in GT. In fact, he was shown throwing a temper tantrum in the Evil 17 arc over the fact that everyone values Goku over him lol. DBS Vegeta never acted that obnoxious smh.
@@Naruku2121 What's with the stupid comparisons people make with the Android arc? At no point in DBS is Vegeta even shown being evil or treating his allies and family like shit. So to claim that Super recycles his Android arc role is stupid.
Super reminds me that z still has a lot of stinkers that people forget about Just read the Manga and watch Clips to get the animation for the optimum Dragon Ball Z experience
Or you could just watch Kai instead of the original. But i totally agree. People really have the rose glasses on for Z. I've always maintained that Toriyama is a designer first and foremost. He has some cool ideas and great designs, but he is not a strong writer
I grew up watching Z Kai. Trying to watch Z was just painful. I was definitely confused AF when I got into DBZA and there was stuff like Fake Namek and other filler.
To be fair. That was just how 80s and 90s Shonen Anime were made. Needlessly long fillers to make up time so more Manga Chapters could release. Giving the studio more time to write in the important story. That's why almost all sagas in Z started slow, but once it got serious it was badass and satisfying ((Trunks' Arrival, Nappa and Vegeta's Invasion, Dodoria, Zarbon, and Frieza's mass Genocide of Namak, hell even for Vegeta's Sacrifice against Majin Buu)).
They were part of the movie, and we had to see how they got to the party. That begs the question, though; Why did they change the setting? When it was just Bulma's house you could assume they just wandered in off the street looking for the balls, but not if it's on a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean!
Personally DBS is my favorite part of Dragon Ball. I loved the OG and was excited to go onto DBZ. And I loved DBZ until the final fight of a saga came. They’re just way to fucking long and are a total Hell to get through especially Kid Buu. DBS fixes most of MY problems with DBZ.
Super isn't hated by fans but rather a very vocal minorty. On sites where people can rate tv shows ranked it is usually between 7.4-8 out of ten, so while not great most folks seem to think it is decent, unlike gt which is usually a 5-6.5 out of ten.
If there's one thing to sum up Super's Arc, is that their just plain, bland, original Filler. Some good moments here and there but overall does not add anything phenomenal to the movies.
@@lasarousi He's exhausted his best material IMO, but i do still enjoy him. Anime Ajay has a great channel for dissecting the animation, but he's a lot dryer than Mark.
Great video. I was expecting you to pull your punches, but it looks like you were being honest with the viewer and with yourself. I challenge you to do videos like this all the way back from OG DragonBall. Outside of maybe the Arale crossover, I'll bet it's highly unlikely you feel a set of episodes in DB are so bad you would want to skip them. And honestly original DragonBall doesn't get the love it deserves. I know people who are diehard DBZ fans but they can't really go back to the lighthearted days of Kid Goku when they know how much grittier it gets in comparison. But the story of DBZ is enriched so much when you look at the whole thing as contiguous. Speaking of which, I can't say I felt that way transitioning from DBZ to Super. I'm sure it's because of the time between each story's creation, but it feels like Toriyama himself forgot what a lot of these character's core energy was like.
I like the ritual in the anime better than the movie because a flow, of which Saiyan is receiving the power, is shown unlike the movie where they were all just holding hands in a circle
I want to hear him touch on the most under appreciated fight in the entire franchise. Goku v Piccolo Jr and Goku finally becoming the world champion martial artist
@@zednotzee that is by far not even close to being an unappreciated fight wym? Its still held in high regard as one of the best fights in the franchise. Idk what you've been watching lmao
@@redviper57 by my statement you, could probably guess that I watched the very fight i said is underappreciated. I don't know what comment sections and forums etc YOU hang out in, but i never ever ever see anyone bring that fight up. The overwhelming majority of DB fans, in my experience, rarely talk about anything pre-Raditz. And when they do, they stop at Demon King Piccolo, the elder. It's like Piccolo Jr is in a community blind spot. Again, in MY experience. Your experience may differ. But if you appreciate that fight as your comment would suggest, then you are a man of class and good taste.
@@zednotzee they don't even feature that fight in any video games for gods sake. My favorite fight in Dragon Ball History and I can't even play it in a game. Goddamn pity
@@AgentAlaska9000 yeah the only game I can recall touching that fight was something like Super Goku Den for the super famicom. And I only experienced that as a poorly translated ROM. It's such a shame, because that fight in particular is real start of the type of beam clashing high intensity battling that would typify DB going forward.
