Yeah, it's very silly. There's nothing wrong with comparing stills with stills, but they should actually be key frames from still sequences and not one from a moving scene and one from a dialogue scene. Moreover, comparing a film and a TV episode is totally boneheaded. Movies have so much more time than TV episodes; _of course_ they're going to look better. Dragon Ball's art was absolutely better back in the day, but you can demonstrate that through fair character sheet comparisons, and not some hyperbolic side by side based on nonsense.
I rolled my eyes when Norihiro Hayashida placed the blame on inexperienced animators instead of owning up to rhe truth. Thanks Ajay, your work is always appreciated!
I still believe I'm one of the 2% that actually loved this episode since before the Blu Ray. Loved seeing Beerus' reactions to the different SSJ forms. Quite frankly, I was so hyped to see SSJ3 again (Since it was never gonna return) that it looked past all the bad drawings, only noticing then after heading to the forums after the episode.
Ookami-sama F you know it's funny when I'm the type of guy who can look past bad Looking visualsbut couldn't look past this one, although thank God it looks a lot better now than it did when I came out(for me at least)
Great episode, funnily enough this was an episode that made me start looking more into animation so I'm somewhat thankful to it for that. Pretty abysmal episode but yea, blown outta proportion in terms of how awful it was, sadly I still see people badmouth Tate but hopefully he continues to do more awesome stuff in the new arc that changes some peoples opinion (wishful thinking).
This episode created an entire community that thinks they have the knowledge and authority to comment on animation. We now forever have to deal with arrogant ignoramuses who think they know what they're talking about, pointing out "bad animation" by taking screen shots of in-between frames.
you cannot call someone arrogant just because it's expecting from this series to have quality of the old show... fans care for the series the most, and thanks to them the show is aired and have cash... toei should fix this episode completely also they should start carrying much more about fights animations because in super they are horrific...dragon ball is still the top 1 shonen in the entire world...even one piece isn't that popular
XAD222 That's not why they're arrogant. It's because they think they're knowledgeable on the subject, when they aren't. Then when they are confronted by people who ACTUALLY know what they're talking about, they'll get all defensive and argue with the person, pretending that they have the credibility and understanding when they're actually just full of shit.
I absolutely agree with you. People often mistakes good drawings with good animation when they're two different things. What's beyond, I've read people saying that Berserk 2016 looks better than Dragonball Super. xD
rocketsniper Then what? His episode 5 was bullshit..It doesnt matter who he was.His work in episode 5 was VERY bad.Most fans left the series becoz of this.
Have you thought of making a video on the difference between art (still frames) and animation? I see too many people call a rough looking frame "bad animation" and it's really annoying.
I just uploaded a video about the difference between key frames and in-betweens and how fans judge animation based on in-betweens. I'm not as educated as Ajay but check it out if you're interested.
They don't know the difference between art (drawing) and animation (movements). For example, Tate's work is mostly rough art but has very nice choreographies. Yamamuro's artwork is okay but the movements feel slow and stiff.
Episode 5 is one of my personally favorite episodes, since they capture Goku's personality better than the movie does concerning this fight scene in both, and with SSJ3 being my favorite transformation in the series, I feel the action they had here was spectacular and had more to it than the movie gave him.
God I love what you have to say about this. Alot of people know at this point that DBS had a horrendous schedule when it started, but going into detail about it is very much appreciated. At this point it's kind of a given that ragging on episode 5 means that people don't know what they're talking about, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you are mostly the reason for a lot of Naoki Tate appreciation. Not even joking I wouldn't appreciate his animation if it wasn't for you, and a lot of others wouldn't either. I can't speak for the Japanese community but you've done an excellent job on bringing these things towards an English speaking audience. Your work cannot be understated, thank you.
The time slot that Dragon Ball Kai was in (and Super now holds) is very coveted. They absolutely did not want to lose that slot, and the rights holders had wanted a new Dragon Ball series for a long time. From a business perspective, there was no choice but to make Super happen right then and there. In an ideal world, they'd have filled that slot with a rerun (even though in reality that wouldn't have flown), and started Super a year later. That's a dream, though.
It would have been better from the get-go and sustained itself. Like any long-running show, you'd have some animators better than others, and some episodes done quickly to focus more on important stuff, but you certainly wouldn't ever have episodes like 24, 33, and the first half of 67, where things are just falling apart in front of you. It'd be much more in line with one of Toei's more recent longrunning shows like Toriko.
If only that could've happened, I'd be able to watch Super without worrying about whether it would be bad or good, instead being excited to see whether the animation would be good or stellar. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions!
WOW. Thanks for the info Ajay. This was really helpful. One of the rumors I heard was that Episode 5 was outsourced, but that was false too. Also, way to show the Majin Vegeta fight for Tate...really really drives home your point. One of the fandom's favorite fights.
I watched this video 5 minutes after it came out and it's the 5th episode of super covered here. If only Ajay released it on february 5th instead of 4th my life would be complete.
Ah. Episode 5. At the very least the Blu Ray makes this episode ok. I wouldn't even place this episode as one of the worst anymore. It's still not what you'd call great, but the 2nd half is at least decent. The biggest offense in this episode is the choreography was pretty bad IMO. I still stand by saying the SSJ3 portions in particular after Blu Ray corrections look fairly nice. I'm really not looking forward to the RoF arc. Well, the main fighting portion of that arc. Christ that's gonna be awful. Another great video Ajay, and what you did there with the thumbnail...I see it.
@@zaramaenigma8432 Did you even watch GT lol? You probs just watched a few moments and not even all of it. GT is literal dawgshit if it wasn't for SSJ4 and Shadow dragon saga.
forgive me if I’m probably mistaken but I think after my current re-watch I think the scene 3:39 to 3:53 could be animated by an uncredited Ryo Onishi The animation and timing has a lot more of a smoother heavier feeling to it especially the part where Biris grabs Goku‘s hand and the hands in General especially the character art looks pretty similar to his scene in episode 14
Great video Ajay, and thank you for the information. I am curious though, do you have any thoughts in regards to why the choreography and fight animations were so bad in these early episodes? Especially given that, as you said, these animators were mostly a part of Z and the epic fight scenes we knew and loved. Granted, it has gotten better since, and will hopefully continue to do so.
Everything to do with time. Choreography primarily comes from the storyboard, and from the few we've seen from this period, they were very rushed. Animators capable of producing good stuff, even by ignoring the storyboard, generally had little time to deliver anything worthwhile.
Gotcha, definitely lends credence to what you were saying about not enough time being spent in preproduction and having to rush. Thanks for answering my question Ajay, keep up the excellent work!
I remember when this episode first came out. Back then, literally the only reason people were hating on Super was because of this episode... Note: We need to copy and paste this video all over RU-vid.
I wouldn't call it great but the second half of the episode is definitely passable. The big issue with the episode is the SSJ 1 and 2 sequences. Most of the close ups, dialogue scenes, and SSJ3 stuff were good for what they needed to be. It's far from the worst looking episode.
Hey ajay ones super comes back we need shintanes design and need to make it every 4 weeks per episode so yo boy naoki tate will do extremely better than people ( including me) that criticizes him but for 5 months I stopped criticizing him because it’s not his fault it’s just the schedule was a bit rushed so do you agree with me about the 4 weeks per episode thing well it might be hard for the fans but it’s time to not stress the animators or if they want that more time to make good animations some of them might not been corrected by other animators so you know etc etc
That's what I figured. It's just that I don't recall the animation videos prior to the recap of 1-4 having captions, so I wasn't entirely assured that it'd stick around. Clearly though, my worries were misplaced and it stuck around. Woohoo.
of Shippuden#123, director of that was episode was Toshiyuki Tsuru. While the animation supervisor was Hirofumi Suzuki. And the scene was animated by Hiroyuki Yamashita
There's Daisuki! They actually have superior video quality (higher bitrate) and have the 1080p version up earlier than CrunchyRoll. It's also totally free and legal! - daisuki.net
Yea it's definitely better, but it still need work. They had 2 months of very conservative filler after the last arc that was either outsourced or rushed, with only 1 episode that looked like they put decent effort in, which was episode 75. TOEI also brought someone on board. Hiroyuki Sakurada. He saved One Piece from production hell. So they're actively trying to make things better, and having someone that saved another series on board is a really positive sign.
When was One Piece's production in a really bad spot? I'm curious cause I can't recall any long stretches of poorly animated episodes. Aside from the really early stuff which wasn't poor necessarily but conservative to say the least. Not particularly well animated I should say.
Perhaps you're thinking of the extensive overview I did of Super's production issues (mentioned at the start of the video). I've never specifically covered episode 5, though. There's some crossover, though. This was planned to be linked on /r/DBZ ahead of time, so I included more production info than I normally would have so as to ensure everyone had the full picture.
I dont understand sorry xD I Thought "early" because it was released wayy before it was ready to air. and "Late" as in a year or more thats what i thought when you said that :S
I prefer animation and styles with 2 or 3 grades of cel shading, a combination of cartoon,realistic and comic book art styles, and atleast somewhere close to Toriyama's art, and lots of Angeles, and detailed smooth lines and, That's my favorite approach to Dragon Ball Character designs,
Hey, you can't blame them. They needed something to air at 9:00 right before One Piece since Kai was already done so they thought it would make sense to start fresh and make a new series.
it is -- known . Your'e just too biased to tate. the episode #5 , goku vs beerus is Naoki tate. thats the truth. enough of defending + favoritism of tate, hes literally a terrible artist + not a strong animator. Thats simply it.
tate actually only animated some of ss3 goku vs beerus. he did the first kamehameha on beerus that featured an incredibly competent camera-zoom in my opinion.
Buddy before you start thinking that you know what you’re saying, you don’t. Tate isn’t even credited. When Tate does do any key animation it’s very recognizable. Naoki Tate is brilliant. So shut up, and stick to complaining about your food.
Nam Except the entire video proves that wrong with actual evidence instead of complaining about in-betweens like the type of idiot that lacks basic knowledge about animation.
