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worth noting how Goku Black’s forms in DB Super Heroes have red eyes instead of grey eyes like in the DB Super anime and manga. And he has SSJ Rosé 2, 3 and his final power up which resembles 3 but with eyebrows
You are completely right my friend. I should've highlighted these differences in the video but what's silly of me is that I noticed the eyebrow thing of SSR3 during the editing process. It was weird as I aways new there was a difference in GB's SS3 but I never realized it until working on this. I'm gonna pin the comment so people can see this. Thanks for pointing it out!
@@toughmangaming8275 hahaha yeah something seemed off to me too when I first saw these forms but it’s just a minor detail I noticed later on. Aso really curious how this version of Goku Black technically has 4 SSJ forms, the last one looking like an evolved version of regular SSJ Rosé 3. Nice vid keep up the good work 👌
Разве красные глаза не из-за маски? Типа, когда Бардок был в маске у него были красные глаза. Что должно означать, что у Блека глаза красные из-за маски нет? Да у Блека маска сломалась но его части всё ещё были у него на лице.
@@aguy9805 why does it have to retarded... while we can perfectly call it mastered like most other forms that need just slight power boost without inventing new forms entirely
One thing I absolutely loved about the broly movie is how different they made every transformation especially between the two god forms. Normal ssj was a slug fest it was pure hand throwing, but once both parties transformed into ssg, it was precise it was light it was mostly defense, then blue came out and it was pure raw power and I wish they would stay consistent with that format of making every transformation their OWN transformation
That’s what I love about the broly movie. Blue feels like an accurate combination of ssg and ssj. Pure power + precision. The aura gave off the vibe too.
Shoutouts to Xenoverse 2 for doing this exact thing. All three forms (the SSJ trilogy, SSG, and SSB/SSBE) provide different buffs and debuffs, so they all see use in different builds.
yep, blue shouldve never been about perfect control that shouldve been SSG's thing, blue shouldve literally been, a saiyan god turning super saiyan (also they shouldve just called super saiyan god, saiyan god, and then blue would be super saiyan god)
Not really any difference between super Saiyan and super Saiyan blue with what you're talking about. The only one that was any different was regular God but you pretended there was more of a difference to make your point work and I wish people wouldn't do that. Just say that you enjoyed that. They made super Saiyan God have like relevance don't over force a point not being an asshole or at least I'm really not trying to be super Saiyan started as raw power until broly caught up to him and when Goku did it he was out matched from the beginning so your point just doesn't make any sense
@@amadhollow635 I thought the same thing AND have been calling it Royal Blue. I guess this fanbase really thinks alike. Shame the official material picks strange names for these forms and isn't in on the fandom hivemind.
Super Saiyan Blue is the new super saiyan trend and super saiyan god has the base hairstyle but it's red and that’s why it’s super saiyan stacked on another transformation
I believe that how Blue works change depend on medias. RoF movie and its guide explain that by absorbing the power of SSG, he retains the power in his base, effectively changing the nature of his normal form, and in turn, SS form which was SSGSS at that time. But despite this, the guide (or interviews I don't remember) explained that the form is more tranquil with a degree of calmness and focus, opposite to the normal SSJ which is more rageful and emotionally compromised. The DBS manga changed that significantly, as not only SSG isn't absorbed and become the new form itself, but SSB seems to initially work like the normal SS with stamina issue, and it tooks 2 arcs for the form to be mastered similar to SS Grade 4, thus allow for Kaioken to be used on top. The anime is kinda a mess, as it seems to work the same as the movie at first with Kaioken Blue introduce earlier than the manga, but then they retcon it to be similar to SSB in the manga initially to reintroduce SSG, so now SSB is more of a rageful form like normal SS but not as emotionally compromised as that form, hence the use of Kaioken much earlier.
Seems like you did all the work for me! But in all seriousness, I think you're right on the money man. It does seem a little contradictory and there isn't much to imply the nuances of the form we see later in the series during its introduction. I sort of tell myself that the series likes to give the view surprises in how it uses these forms for its own narrative purposes (Anime: SSBKK and the Reintroduction of God, Manga: Reintroduction of God and MSSB). Whether or not this works all the time is up to the viewer, but I'm sure you guys can tell that there are a couple of instances where I think introducing new blue forms is pretty haphazardly done for both the characters and the narrative as a whole.
@@toughmangaming8275 I think if they was gonna introduced a Blue form that surpassed SSB, they should have make SSB2 instead rather than the odd bulky SSBE form.
@@MinhLe19303 I would say I agree, I think at the very least they should’ve made the connections between SSBE and super saiyan grade 2 instead of leaving it to head cannon
That’s not all true. In the DBS manga and anime it was stated that Goku absorbed the power of SSJG into his base form. His base form was then called Saiyan Beyond God. The SSJG form itself is different from the base form still retaining its powers. Normal SSJ Goku is still almost as strong as SSJG.
I think the reason the wiki classifies Gogeta's unique form as Blue Evolution is because in the game, he is shown to be in the proper evolution form, and that specific unit for Gogeta released alongside Goku Black's Rose Full Power (the one with the eyebrows and ss3 hair).
Actually it’s because his card says “Blue Evolution” the cards always say the name of the form unless it’s Super Saiyan Beyond God, since that was supposed to be a surprise.
If you go and look at the card for it its stated to be blue evolution and in the art it looks more like what we are accustomed to seeing when vegeta uses blue evolution
I found it so funny godly versions of SSJ2 and SSJ3 became a thing in Heroes, as they feel like such obvious evolutions for the forms that's almost weird seeing them in a batshit crazy story like that. I even remember seeing fanart of SSJB 2 and 3 back in the day. Also, i'm pretty sure Hyourinjutsu predicted the whole "Black travels between timelines to kill Gokus and get stronger" which is pretty cool.
Wait, Hyorunjutsu PREDICTED that?? I thought he was just going off SDBH canon Now after checking the dates… yeah, he got it spot on! And it wouldn’t be the first time either lol
Thank you so much friend! That means so much to me, this is my first outing of long style content like this, but I plan to make weekly videos akin to this based on either narrative analysis or power sacling
I'd like to post a theory about the nature of the Rose transformation: In Essence is a mimicry of Majin energy (as in demon energy), Zamasu being a Kaio with a heart rotten with negative essence he essencially is a Ma-Kaioshin (the evil beings that inhabit a banished realm) in all but name, his ki even becomes darker and sinister. So, any evil Saiyan capable of understanding Divine Ki should be able to reach this form.
Question: But isn't Zamasu like, thinking he's doing something good? One short I've watched (forgot who made it) stated that Zamasu was simply indoctrinated wrong or misunderstood what Gowasu said.
@@x4lv4ti0n7 Zamasu was indeed indoctrinated improperly, Gowasu is a big idiot, yet, it doesn't make much sense that a sane god of creation would be so repulsed by their creation, if you get me (Like, Universe's 7 Kaioshin being powerful enough to kill Freezer with one flick yet never did it for the sake of balance at large). Gowasu is a failure at large for no being able to see the rot within his apprentice.
In regards to Black's Rose form, the way it makes sense to me is that because he's actually Zamasu in Goku's body, he doesn't exactly get the SSG form because his spirit isn't that of a Saiyan. Instead, he gets a form composed of his own god ki due to being of the race of Kai's. It is then this alternative SSG form that he is stacking Super Saiyan on top of. This makes the form analogue to SSB, but slightly different. I would assume that if he were to ever transform into this alternative SSG, it would have the same physical attributes as SSG but would have Zamasu's blueish purple ki with a similar shade of the same color for the eyes and hair. That's just my own speculation however.
That’s similar to how I think of it. My theory is that it’s an order of operations type thing. Goku was a ssj that gained god ki, Zamasu is a god that gained the ability to go ssj.
Its probably more god ki and more magical, the anime shows more magical elements of his powers which i think is good, he had the dimensional scythe, the cloud clones and he can probably use special kia abilities in general.
Its literally two different ki types….. thats why it’s different and “acts as a base” god ki, and normal ki are different. Think of it like this. You have a cup which is you. When you use normal ki it fills with water. But when you use god ki the cup is emptied and filled with koolaid. When he uses god ki it affects him fundamentally changing his appearance and form to his super saiyan god. So now that hes using god ki and not normal ki its like he has to start all over again with learning how the ki works and all. So when he got super saiyan god its because he figured out how to go super saiyan with god ki which is different and not the same way as using it with normal ki. For zamasu/goku black. He literally uses god ki because he is a KAI so al he had to do is learn super saiyan. Super saiyan rose and super saiyan god super saiyan are the same zamasu is just a prodigy and his own ki/aura prolly mixed with the normal color of ssj with god ki or maybe every race has different god ki.
i´d prefer this explanation. but theres also the explanation, that god-ki is merely the product of keeping your ki inside and around your body, which sounds like something any ki-user should learn much earlier. In HxH theres the principle of "In", which controls your aura in a way, that you can keep it outside of your body and use it for your techniques, but prevents it from being sensed by others by preventing any aura from radiating off, allowing your attacks to become invisible. Its an advanced technique, but its introduced in the same arc, that introduced the powersystem. Godly ki should be something more special, like the mastered avatar state, where you detach yourself from your earthly connections and stuff and reach enlightenment or something.
@@proclarushtaonasatToei had an opportunity to set that difference in the Zamasu arc but then they gave Trunks another different form instead of SSJ Rosé after exploding with rage.
I know basically nothing in regards to modern DB, but what is the functional difference between normal ki usage and god ki usage? It sounds like a distinction without a difference.
@@deadaccount2968 nobody really know how exactly God Ki works, it just that mortals can't sense it and is way more powerful. But that doesn't mean that normal ki individuals can't rival the one with God Ki (since we know that SSJ4 isn't really far behind blue) it just really hard.
Well Structured script, good voice, well job in the music, good sources, the visuals are just enough, excellent video 10/10, please do more content like this 👍🏼
The scene with him overpowering the massive amount of Power from the Universe Tree just reminded me of the scene with the Spirit Bomb being absorbed in his fight with Super Android 13 from the movie.
First thought i had for gogeta's unique form was that he was just using ultra instinct with blue like goku did in the manga but instead of just the principles like goku in the manga he actually stacked the forms with him being a fusion and how fusions are proven to have insane capabilities and almost infinite growth potential
It obviously is Blue Evolved, his eyes are dark blue, blue hair with shading, vegeta in heroes didnt have dark-dark blue hair in blue evolved Also, GOGETA SSJ4 Has black hair, fusion sometimes makes custom techniques and stuff.
I was so surprised that you had this little subscribers while having such good videos that i thought it was some kind of reupload, although having it in 360p makes it hard to read the manga panels, i loved the video, keep it up!
Once they have more subs , they only make videos for views and money end up producing generic content to please people and keep sponsors. Small content creators can take more risks and have more freedom therefore in thier content. As even if the video doesn't take off or thier channel gets banned they can start over .
The SDBH Gogeta form’s aura reminds me a lot of the Stardust Breaker/Soul Punisher energy that erupted from Janemba in the Fusion Reborn movie. This probably doesn’t mean anything but I think it’s cool.
@@toughmangaming8275 of course keep up the good work you should do more videos like this like all the super saiyan forms, or just how certain characters work like piccolo, or tien becuase DB though not often they show the progress of older characters. like with tien he went from crane school to leaving it the devolopment of his kikoho from the tournament, to saiyan saga, to cell. to becoming a master and teaching students himself.
@@MissDemonicTV that’s an awesome idea! I’ll definitely put that on the list of video ideas! I think a piccolo one would be really fun since not many fans acknowledge his origin and why him becoming a hero is so monumental to the series. I also wanna do a deep dive on Dragon Balls power system as I think there’s a lot to be said on how Ki works.
@toughmangaming8275 You can talk about every single instance of each portrayal of the dragon balls, canon, and non canon. especially the fake namek ones and the black star ones. and obviously the super dragon ball ones because the notion of it is, who created the super dragon balls? a god namekian? if anything, it is way more powerful than zeno and maybe the grand priest
Great vid, I’m a pretty big dragon ball fan but it was nice to see a few things I didn’t know. First time seeing your channel and I can’t wait to watch what else you make :)
great video man! very well done at explaining your thoughts on it all. the only “ negative “ i would have is try and up the quality from 360 to at least 480 or 720 if you ever get the chance too and maybe let the manga panels stay for about 2-3 seconds longer ( i know we can just pause it but still ) other than that fantastic job can’t wait to see more
That’s only true in the manga, in the anime it’s just Black’s regular SSJ form cuz he has god ki by default, so SSJ Rosé gives him a 50x multiplier and not whatever SSJ Blue would give to Goku and Vegeta
This video hoes hard 💪🏽 wayched till the end. I honestly disliked the form entirely until i started to read these comments and watching the video all the way through explaining pretty much all the lore and diversity with it. Its not my top favorite but i see the form in a greater light now. And you gained a new subscriber 👍🏾
Great vid and great in-depth analyses on this specific topic (subscribed) Side note here you squeeze a bit more watch time by zooming a bit on the still frame of like the manga panel for better viewing (needs a little bit of saturation in some areas to act as eye candy for viewer) and the dokkan osts some how match your commentary. looking to see more
what needs to be emphasized is the manga and anime are separate continuities, they run alongside each other and share similar events but are SEPERATE at the end of the day blue works fundementally different in the anime vs the manga the energy expenditure thing is only ever focused on in the manga , in the manga its always been very clear that when their blue aura disappears that they are holding it in to maximize attack power and that's what perfected blue is, in the anime, all it gives is control of ki (no real specifics given) that allows the kaioken to be stacked onto it, that's why in the anime whenever he is in blue but there is no aura they don't say its a different state or that he's in any way stronger cause of this detail
Really liked this vid and your analysis. Would love for you to make more like this. Maybe a video about all the different kamehamehas. Keep it up, I’ll definitely be watching more 👍
This whole time I've been assuming rosè is super Saiyan blue but it's what happens when an actual true deity uses that power which would make sense with being a kai and all
Here's my problem with SSJ Rose... In the show rose doesn't act like SSJ Blue at all in the anime it acts more like ssj1 and going off basic power scaling and statements from the beginning of the Future Trunks arc it makes even more sense. [Might change things] 1. In the beginning ssj2 Future Trunks could barely lay a finger on Black and got away by the skin of his teeth. 2. After Goku and Trunks's spar, Trunks specifically says that EVEN when Goku went Ssj3 that still might not be enough to beat Black. 3. Black enters the present timeline and sets his eyes on the Z fighters but specifically Goku, goku flies up to Black bout to fight and Goku specifically goes Ssj2 while black is still in base. It was also implied that BOTH were holding back. 4. Black perfects Goku's body at full. 5. Goku, Vegeta, & Trunks go into the destroyed future, Vegeta bursts at black while in Blue landing multiple shots on him but Vegeta immediately falls back as he senses a greater power. 6. Black turns Rose and dominates both Vegeta Trunks and Goku (minus Future Zamasu which is quite strong in his own right).
damn bro i usually dont comment at all but u got 480 subs and i didnt even notice like i thought ur 10k or more atleast keep stuff like this up and u gonna go far
For the Gogeta one, I think it's meant to be like Gogeta 4 Limit Breaker. The only problem being that the two sayians no longer share a final form so it mashed Blue Evolution and UI together
I think Super Saiyan God is my favorite between it, Blue, and Rose. The fact it's both a transformation and a sort of base form is super badass, and I love the colors. But I think Super Saiyan Royal Blue is my favorite of the Blue iterations, just because of the colors.
It's so frustrating how I can go looking for channels like yours and youtubes search just gives me the same 3 channels and I just have to wait until the algorithm graces me to be able to find stuff like this. I've subbed so hopefully I can catch any future videos!
I think Gogeta's Blue form is his own version of Blue Evolution, just mutated due to him being a fusion, similar to how Super Saiyan 4 mutates to being red hair and sparkly aura when used by SSJ4 Gogeta. Also Goku didn't absorb all the power of the universe tree, he just controlled it. As his blue aura has a long tail of energy, as if he's storing the access energy as a large aura, at least that's what I think.
That wwhole Blue Evolution being Mutated for Gogeta can be scratched, because in the Game and Manga he has the proper Blue Evolution design The Anime staff just wanted to be Fancy
I’ve always accepted the headcanon explanation for SSJ4 Gogeta having red hair being that GT takes place in a timeline where the events of Super have already played out. So Gogeta actually stacked SSJG on top of SSJ4.
I forget about SSBE. It’s weird that vegeta now has two forms that match UI. I like your theory for SSJBE being Ssj grade 2 but now as SSJB. Anyways great video explaining a form that happens to confuse a lot of us.
I always saw SSBE as Super Sayain g2/Super Vegeta because at least in terms of the Anine, Vegeta always gets the sub powerups/Ability to skip forms. I mean we all knew Vegeta had to have been able to achieve SSG because when SSB was first introduced, it was treated as the God form of SSJ
I wish they had kept the strategy of going from Blue to God, I loved that, plus it kinda made that form useful for the first time after BOG. I do like that the anime later took that idea in the dyspo fight.
So its Ssj god - similar to base form Ssj blue - super saiyan version of ssg Ssj blue kaioken - idk Ssj blue evolution - Ssj grade 2 Ssj blue mastered - Mastered ssj Ssj blue Berserk/dark - Similar to Majin Vegeta Ssj rose 2 - Ssj2 Ssj rose 3 - Ssj3 Ssj Rose full power - Ssj4....? Cuz of tail and lines under his eyes just like on Ssj4 Ssj Blue Gogeta evolution - idk Universal Ssj blue - hmmm reference to Super Android 13 Goku absorbing Spirit bomb and shining ssj hair like in Cooler's return Big gate star I guess that's it Nice video :D
Yes exactly, SSJG Is just the God Ki/God Iteration base form for Saiyan's. But it also got me thinking if there is a God Base version for other races. Because if Goku folded his Mortal SSJ onto the SSJG to get SSJB than could other races through the ritual of the same circumstances as the Saiyan's being 5 of pure heart attain a God Base for they're race.
Second thing worth noting is that the canons of the manga and the anime differ in details, so with Rosé, it’s possible that that *is* Black’s Super Saiyan in the anime (since he’s never seen using actual Super Saiyan in the anime). We just don’t know.
I can confirm for a fact Gogeta used SSB Evolved this is not only stated in the anniversary guide but also the back of his card text. His Big Bang Mission 10 secret rare card literally says 超サイヤ人ゴッド超サイヤ人・進化 Which translates to Super Saiyan Blue Evolution/Shinka. I translate Japanese and i have alot of information for Hereos. The reason why it looks that way in the anime is for one a design choice and also to show how much power Gogeta has in that form. But its just SSBE 100 percent.
@@toughmangaming8275 Your welcome btw Vegito may possibly use SSBE in the next episode for Hereos anime against Dark King Demigra. So let's see how they design the form for him will it be similar to how Gogeta has it or more like Vegeta we will see.
@@GodslayerSeiya I just may do that, if I do it’ll be more based on the great ape form and seeing it’s evolutions as I think ss4 has a lot but no where near as much to say as ssb
I disagree with your assessment of Rose, as I do believe the anime version is just Black’s version of SSJ, and not SSJB. I say this is the case due to both Vegeta’s and the promotional guides, which explicitly state it’s not his version of God, but regular SSJ. And this is also backed to me by Super Dragon Ball Heroes, which has him going into SSJ3. But as for the manga, it’s clearly his version of Blue
I respect the disagreement and the discussion! I think heroes might allude to what you’re saying but my interpretation is that heroes is saying ssb can evolve similarly to the normal super saiyan forms. Do you know these guides that talk about rose? I would love to know if there’s some important info I missed.
@@toughmangaming8275The situation with Rosè is actually pretty weird. To paraphrase Toriyama's translated notes (Credit to Herms): "[Black] becomes a Super Saiyan like Goku and a Super Saiyan of a slightly different color to Goku's." Anime Black was most likely meant to have both Super Saiyan and Rosè, but there was a misinterpretation of Toriyama's intent on Toei's end. They thought Rosé WAS his Super Saiyan form.
Nine Novem I don't know how it is in Japanese, but I can see how those notes can be mistaken at least with the translation. Toriyama meant that Goku Black had Super Saiyan _and_ a Super Saiyan of a different color (this probably being written before "Super Saiyan Blue" became the generally agreed upon name). But the people at Toei took it as he had Super Saiyan _that was_ a Super Saiyan with a different color. Doesn't help that he only drew base Goku Black and Rose Goku Black in his concept sketches, iirc.
I have to disagree on the blue kaioken manga take More because it seens that the anime and manga use it in completly different ways The same thing as their super saiyan blues In the anime they dont need the mastering of the form and the aura dosent evolve too(at the start of the manga the blue aura was just a line, then it had blue flames in it and got more thick) So in base the kaioken that worked in the anime wont work with the manga and goku use then in a different way Goku in the anime used it more as a transformation and used it in long periods Goku in the manga used it two more times after the ToP Both where against moro and he used it as a big boost of power(being enough to cut off his arm) So saying that it completly misses the mark of ss blue i think it apply to the blue of anime but not from the manga Because they have some differences Also i think the ss blue evo being grade two could be used on the anime But not on the manga, more because vegeta dont really get much bulkier there I think ssb evo would be the peak ss blue(again the manga had goku and vegeta evolving ssb until the top where the flame and the line completly fused In comparison to the blue kaioken of goku that is a very white aura without any flames) Anyway good video analysis on ss blue
The anime and manga are 2 seperate entities, so a manga rule shouldn’t apply to the anime unless its specificly shown / would logicly make sense. For example, the “turning blue too much” too make vegeta fight at just 10% of his full power in the u6 tournie doesn’t apply to super. It just wouldn’t make sense in the other situations that just turning blue drains you so much. The case where goku utilised god mixed in with turning blue to strike is an example where they used a simulair concept, but it wasn’t for the same reasons vegeta did it in the manga. Vegeta did it because it would be too draining to use blue at full power from the start, whereas goku in the TOP in the anime did it because he just hadn’t recoverd enough to use blue as his top transformation. He wisely decided to only push himself that far when needed. I know it sounds simulair, but the details make it 2 distinct reasonings for using that move
I think I understand where you’re coming from and I agree that the two canons are entirely different but since the video was assessing the forms as a whole, I thought it would be simpler to address what the anime said first and then what the manga has to say instead of covering the forms twice to cover both canons.
Can you make one of these but for the regular super Saiyan forms? Or even God. People like Carthu's dojo assumes that there is a ritual version of the god form by, the ritual. The other being of course the one they can teansform into at will. He exclaimed the reason why they mught be different being that in it's first initial introduction, the SSG form gave Goku a healing factor as well as a slightly weaker boost than later versions of the SSG form.
This is really interesting, I might look into that a bit more. I was considering throwing God into this video, but I feel like the video was long enough as it was
Goku black at the end supposedly had 2 versions of rose 3 the normal rose 3 and full power rose 3 (he gets bulkier and his eyebrows come back) yes both are shown
Good video! I want you to make a guide about God ki. In my opinion it should have been a technique that guarantees victory against anyone without it, no matter how strong they are. That way it would emphasize its godliness.
Finally someone who realizes that goku black just went super saiyan 1 (rose form) and not blue, otherwise it doesn’t make sense how vegeta would be able to overpower him later on after being manhandled by black in base
Would you be willing to talk about the power of Broly and Kale? Their evolutions. Why their green haired forms are more potent than regular super saiyan ? What about Trunks' super saiyan rage form? Is it a variation super saiyan 2 ?
@I'm just a Dog I like to believe SSJ Rage is the Grade 2 of SSJ2 also the reason that Broly's Full Power SSJ form is so powerful is because it's literally SSJ4 but without a tail because it was created after Broly stacked SSJ on top of Ikari and that's ignoring that most of Broly's power came from rage boosts.
SSB Berserk Controllled is powerful but unfortunately it's not on the level of Silver UI. In the arcade which is Heroes main continuity shows in the battle with Black that Full Power Rose Black one shots SSB Berserk Controllled like in the anime. But in the arcade after overwhelming SS Rose 3 Black, Goku uses Silver UI against Full Power Rose Black but his UI was weakened and his accuracy dropped yet he still held his own and didn't get one shotted by Black like Vegeta did. SSB Berserk Controllled as a power up and form is only at best around UI Sign level.
This is why we need SSBE Controlled Berserk for Vegeta (my interpretation was that it was UI Omen level too because when gogeta in the manga talks bout them training it shows Goku in UI Omen and Vegeta in SSB CB) + I think the dark blue and muscle increase would look nice with the black aura and more menacing look
@@Elysian_Xeno Wow I'm now just seeing this lol but yeah agreed they need to make SSBE Berserk Controllled for sure. Not only will that look so cool but also he would be much stronger.
I'm telling you guys Gohan will be the next user of super Saiyan rosé because he has potential unlock and kai training it really would be ashamed to waste such a form and I feel like it matches with Gohan blue doesn't seem like his color
5:51 goku uses the kioken against jiren in the manga in ssb V jump guides confirm this by calling it "super Saiyan blue kioken" even though it's stated to be "using the principles of the kioken" W video
Surprised you didn’t mention Goku Black’s ability to conjure ki weapons in rosé. Closest thing a Z fighter has done like that is trunks enhancing his sword. Although it could be attributed to that not being Goku n Vegeta’s style of fighting, it’s worth noting
I was actually considering it but I think I may go in depth into that if I make a video focusing on Goku Black as I think there's a lot to be said about the character and his abilities
Great video; aside from the more controversial part regarding what Super Saiyan Rosé is, you said pretty much everything there was abiut each Blue variation. However, there are some nitpicks I didn't see in the comment section. Super Saiyan Blue Evolution's uniqueness *was* highlighted by Gohan when Vegeta transformed, but neither he nor Piccolo could tell what's up with it. Also, Goku *does* use Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken a second time, and much more responsibly: he wielded it for a split second using a Warp Kamehameha against Moro after he ran out of stamina to use Ultra Instinct Sign. It was relatively successful too, as it destroyed one of Moro's arms, except that he regenerated it through Goku's chest. If you don't mind explaining, I'm interested in knowing why you think Goku's character was assassinated by attempting to mimic Kaioken on top of Blue, especially because you don't address there's a strain regardless of how good the Ki control is (controlling it was never a problem in its original run, only withstanding the power), though the Super anime just dropped that drawback after its introduction. I know it sounds weird after all he went through in the original Dragon Ball, but I don't really see how it's inconsistent with the path he went down throughout Z, especially given his history using Kaioken embodies that power > technique notion and the only time extra power was dismissed was with grade 3 because of the energy expenses and speed loss (plus, there's a debate on whether grade 4 even is weaker to begin with).
Awesome comments, I'm glad you liked the video. I mention this in another comment but I'm not the biggest fan with the mangas SSBKK as I think Goku's focus on pure power is one that comes sort of out of no where is is against his character in both DBZ and DBS. It's pretty safe to say that Goku is a character who's an incredibly knowledgeable and skillful martial artist so to see him abandon that for "pure power" and not understanding the lack of importance power has in a fight compared to skill is incredibly jarring. I don;t think this would be as bad if Goku wasn't so clearly set up to be a mature martial artist in the Namek, Cell, and Buu in Z but even in Super there's him outsmarting both GF and Goku Black/Zamasu (in the manga), and him withstanding Caulifla attacking him with his techniques and prowess as a martial artist, not the strongest being in the Universe. I definitely plan to go over this as I wanna make a video explaining why I don';t like the mangas rendition of the ToP, but for obvious reasons, it was pretty out of place for this video. I think the difference form this and the anime is that the anime makes a clear effort to explain how the two forms work with each other and it serves as another example as to why Goku is such a strong and competent fighter. You're right that I didn't mention the strain that KK puts on the body, but I wasn't really aiming at explaining the nuances of the Kaioken in that section, just explaining where it differs from the Kaioken. Overall, I hope that explains my stance and I respect yours and feel free to keep commenting if you wanna keep talking!
@@toughmangaming8275 I see where you're coming from now. Goku *does* try to bridge power gaps with technique and tactics, and Z basically portrayed the culmination of his journey towards enlightenment, so to speak. With the way Master Roshi addressed the issue, I assume Toyotaro intended to show Goku would eventually fall back to brute force if what he learned didn't work (given he specifically mentioned the foes he overused the Kaioken against). When you think about it, he failed to protect the Earth on his own in every saga in Super (Beerus simply couldn't be overcome, he let his guard down against Frieza of all people, and Zamasu escaped his control). Having said that, there's material for a regression character arc (enhanced by some dialogue where he comments on his powerlessness), but that falls apart when you take into account none of that seems to bother him after the fight is over. The Tournament of Power and its consequences essentially coming to be due to his interference were the perfect catalysts for him to devalue himself as a fighter, which would explain his recklessness throughout the Universe Survival Saga and culminate on that lesson and later him learning to share the burden by fighting together with Vegeta. Instead, we got none of the build-up and just both the lowest and highest points seemingly out of context. In summary, that arc embodied the problem of modern Dragon Ball being handled by Toei with its old school methods, while Toyotaro frantically tries to catch up so he can get the next stories out (only for the anime to ignore their existence and skip right to the one he hadn't yet told). In the end, it's nice to see he tried to do something even at arguably the lowest point in his storytelling in Super, and seeing the nuances he's accomplished after that gets me hopeful that the anime adaptation's overall quality will increase.
@@HayatoByakurai I think this is an incredibly charitable yet accurate take on how Toyotaro treats the story. I think you're right that the story suffers from it being rushed and its something he even admits in the volume releases of the manga. I'm not sure I would in turn place some blame on the toei staff, but I definitely see where you're coming from as I think flanderization is something that Super suffers from as a whole that I really wanna go into that in a full length video as I think there's a lot to say about a lot of characters, Goku especially. Overall, I think your take on this regression arc would have been a really cool way to take Goku's character and I think it's something later Super might allude to with Goku's lack of confidence in the Moro saga. To conclude, great analysis my friend!
