Draw MISTAKES That ALL HUNTERS MAKE (These Ruin Your Hunting) 

Great topic. We elk hunt in 1-5 preference point units. My cousin decided years ago he would just cow hunt on a second choice draw and build points. . He now has over 20 points and he says he could never bull hunt with us anymore because his points are too valuable to hunt normal bulls and now he can’t draw cow tags in some of our units anymore so he won’t hunt with us ever again. Sad.

Ive been hunting private land a few years for mule deer without success in northern NM, GMU 46. This was my first time entering the draw and i got an Elk tag for 3rd rifle hunt, Oct 19-23 in GMU 51. Novice hunter going it alone and trying to learn from people like yourself that have vast wisdom to share on the subject. My rifle will be a Savage 270 Win, launching 145gr Hornady ELD-X @ 2960fps MV topped with a Bushnell Forge 2.5-15x50.

Consider This: Out here in the West, many times the difference between an Average unit and a Premium unit is hunter familiarity with that unit. For example, I can hunt/scout/backpack/camp in an Average unit and get REALLY familiar with it and there are great opportunities if I know where and how to hunt a particular area. On the other hand, I most likely will not scout a premium unit until the year I draw the tag. When I finally get the tag after a decade of waiting I will be going into a unit that I am NOT familiar with. In my opinion, I have better chances at a trophy in an average unit that I can hunt every year and learn that unit. Just my opinion.

You can do both. You can swing for the fence for glory tags in certain states and hunt every year with otc tags and easy to draw tags in others states. Isnt really one option or the other.

Mr Gray, I think I've watched almost all your videos. Your wisdom and advice is extremely appreciated. Keep making videos and distributing your advice, it's helping a new hunter like me more than you know. Thank you

Your brother would be proud you busted out expected value. As a finance guy, I appreciate it as well, and fall victim to many of the mental mistakes that you mention in the video. Human nature is a powerful force.

Appreciate your channel, videos and knowledge shared. Would love to see a video breaking down the other "non-draw" options by species, state and cost (i.e. TX hunting lease, NM landowner pronghorn, etc.) and comparing value/opportunity/cost. Thanks!

Great information. Thank you very much.

Hey cliff love your perspective and advice. Your nuggets of wisdom are very similar to what the veteran hunters over at GoHunt (like Brady and Trail) say over and over again; get out there and hunt, don’t focus on draws or baggin a trophy every time you go out. Just get out and get experience, build your skills and fundamentals as a hunter, and keep at it. You’ll eventually have opportunities to take some great animals and have a lot of great experiences

Awesome content and good value.

Great content as always. Your perspective is different than most out there.

Great insight! Had a 15 pt tag and a 1 pt tag. Saw similar size in both areas.

Super good job cliff. This has my brian turning. This even gets tougher with kids. I am so unsure on what direction to lead them.

Love the videos

Incredible content as always. You’re the fucking man and this community is lucky to have what you contribute.

Great points. Also, if it makes sense to burn your (10-15) points and move on with a 2-5 pt. hunt, you may also put in as a party so your buddies/family can go with you!

This is exactly why I keep a whitetail lease at home and usually hunt a little public as well for whitetail. Then I try to hunt out west every year or two. Keep hunting every year and gaining experience but still hoping to draw a decent tag out west.

Spot on! When you have a chance to hunt, go hunt. To me I try to learn a couple little "honey holes" in an area, that produce year after year. The more you hunt them, the more you learn escape routes, bedding etc. When you're going into an area cuz you drew a special tag that you do not know, your chances go way down.

This is a great perspective, Cliff. Thanks for sharing your experience! I've learned a ton from your videos. My buddy and I are considering putting his son in for a youth tag in a few trophy elk units in CO, in the hopes he can pull one before he ages out. Would you suggest we give this a try, or are we wasting our time, and we should just hunt a 1st season 0-1 point tag, as usual?

Really brought up utility functions for a second like I paid attention during Econ 315

Right now I drew a relatively easy Eastern Oregon mulebuck tag for this fall next to the Oregon California border. I want to get down and put some trail cams out but with all the wildfires throughout the state of Oregon there's my dilemma... I'm going on this particular hunt for the idea of just getting away for a few days and my kill a nice buck. It's just a bonus.

Ha your MBA background really shined in this video!

It’s a different system up here in Canada, but I still hit the like and watched the video.

A sheep tag is simply $100.00 weekly contribution @ 4% interest for 7 years. Good video, every one has different goals & budgets but there's no such thing as a free day

Swing for the fences on a couple of states and hunt every year or every other year in OTC states. I do it and hunt every year but also get a premier tag every 3 or 4 years after 15 years of building points.

Howdy Cliff. Excellent information. I agree. I hunt whitetails in Texas for free as I am a resident and have family property access. I shoot either 4 or 5 deer each year per license in S. TX. But, I always enter Colorado's elk hunt. I do the easy/guaranteed elk hunt for either a cow or bull, depending on what I most want in a given year. After trying a few different GMUs, I found one I really like. In this area, I can always hunt elk on public land! Think about it. I always get to hunt elk each year! I think it is far better to hunt elk each year than to not hunt. I hunt mostly DIY solo, backpack in, and I'm 65 years old. I want to hunt until I can't, which may be a few years away God willing, 10 or more years. My Dad is 94 years young and running strong! I'm in good shape and plan on staying in shape. I don't have the mega years left in life for entering some foolish point system that is always out of reach. I have a great and successful time by learning more of this area each year, which is very important to success! I love it and it is the thing(hunt) I prepare for and dream about after each season ends. After each season, I'm ready to go again and it seems so long until the very next season. I highly recommend hunters find a place they like, spend each hunting season learning the area, and go have fun and hunt your butt off every year! Thanks again Cliff. Later on Sir.....

slightly different up here in British Columbia but a TON of info that applies north of the border too!

Could you do one on what you look for as far as units on success rate and bull to cow ratio?

I drew two fantastic mule deer tags in the same year and I ended up with one very small fork horn. Another year I drew 5 tags in two states. It took the fun out of it. If you had to shoot a deer in one week or shoot a particular golf score in one round, why would you hunt or play somewhere you haven't been much? I've learned less is more. I'd rather hunt more days in more familiar places to find success. I have a half a dozen honey holes where I understand the layout of the land & behavior of the animals. While I think new experiences are super important, I'm deadly where I'm consistent and I don't feel the need to be two places at one time. Happy hunting to all who have read this far!!

Dead on, but I wish you wouldn't have shared it. Now all of us hunting these "bad" units every year are going to have more competition from the guys who are "going for broke" by pulling a tag once every decade or so. It's better two hit a lot of singles, doubles, then never getting in the game waiting for that grand slam.

I remember asking you a few months ago about a “nerd out white board session” on why guided hunts can cost $28k-$infinity. Although my question was more of the “why” this gave some insight on the “why not” lol. I can’t afford a moose hunt in Canada or Alaska but seeing how it’s plausible for people to pay this money helps make a little sense.

I go with my group if I draw or not.... I may not take a gun and might be a camp cook that trip but they do the same.....and get a fishing pole... We don't try for unit 76 in co because it is hard to get but We have a pretty good success rate.... last time we had 2 deer tags 1 filled.. (I killed out, my success rate has went from 25% 15 years ago to 100% over the last 5 years and that is all because of experience).. I will tell my secret...first off I show up on Tuesday night, so I can adjust...starting about june 1 I will hit the treadmill with hunting weight equivalent pack... I live in texas so I will get a mask that reduces oxygen level to the alitude I plan to hunt.. I study the unit I hunt every night before bed...looking for water, bedding, and food... Last year opening morning I walked a while....found a meadow at the top of a drainage saw orange down below about 700 to 1000 yards (terrain is tricky to judge distance without ranging it) and decided to sit down and glass a bit and just stop and look...within 5 minutes my 30 caliber roared out and my hunt was over.... Sometimes you can hunt other peoples mistakes..having said that don't stop and hunt 500 yards from a guy.. don't be a dick.. and don't hunt over him like shoot in his field of view..or direction my rule of thumb is a drainage or unmanned meadow is okay hunting on the other side of the tree is not.. If you see orange just stop and find a place to sit and glass... I am in the boat that Cliff is talking about of not knowing what I am doing this year, because of the draw... I am in a 50/50 odds unit...but he has some good points on pay to play might be better than the 25% odds you will have to start and every kill, every spooked animal...every missed shot....every little finger ridge and meadow you hunt gives you the most powerful thing a hunter can have knowledge.. When I first started I was hunting a fire cut road and heard some birds chirping, sounded like some strange birds so I ignored the sound... 3 years later I was on vacation in south fork colorado and stumbled on a heard of about 300 elk in a summer feeding hold....and I heard that bird sound coming for 250ish cows and calves... that year I had a cow tag... I was less than 200 yards from those :"birds" my ignorance cost me a chance to take an animal.... and i can admit it... knowing the species you're hunting is part of that knowledge..and cliffs videos are a great resource along with a few others... I hope everyone of you has a 100% draw this year and kills out... btw the one who didn't kill out was a first time hunter in this area and made several fatal mistakes...1. He tried to help another in our party with an elk tag and kind of buddy hunted, not sharing a tag just staying close to each other.. so he didn't focus on his tag....their thought was an elk walks out the other guy will shoot it a deer walks out he would shoot it.... I have never had luck hunting with another person on my hip..2 hunting a place to hunt... they didn't know how to use the pressure of the other hunters to their advantage , he saw several hunters in the distance and vacated the area to find another area, he should've sat down and watched. 3. they weren't in the greatest of shape..threw their gear in the truck and drove up there..4 treated it as a vacation with a hunting tag....hunting is hard work be prepared.. if he gets to go back ...he willl have experience...that is important.. you are alway building a roladex of hunting knowledge..

If it would help my Dad or my brothers I would group app and average my 3-5 points for pronghorn, deer 🦌 or elk to get them in a unit that they otherwise wouldn’t have been able to get just to have that experience with them.

So my game plan was to put in for a low point unit so that I could draw an early rifle compared to being in there during 2/3rd when it’s OTC. Does it make sense for me to do that still ? I was basically planning to draw for less pressure.

Those draws often have the most challenging access. Don't hurt yourself hiking too much because you're dreaming about a trophy. Most guys would be thrilled with a 140 pound buck.....and it's still a ton of physical labor ....... Nothing wrong with a trophy tag.... But it is what it is. I get it why people hire guides like cliff , especially for trophy tags. Long distance hiking,and a lot of meat to carry

The divorced this fall made me laugh hard. I'm a terrible person ik.

That creates lots of problems if they get rid of the OTC archery tag. I love hunting the flattops or bears ears. But if it goes away that means I can only hunt roughly every other year, buy a point one year hunt the next. The OTC units may be 100% draw but if you draw for flattops you may not be able to get your OTC units tag.

holy shit this is all so confusing to a newb

Better off just forgetting draws and focus on general hunts in my opinion. Get to know a general unit intimately and your success rate may be even better than a draw unit unless you already know that unit. Every season in the same area adds valuable information that will help in future hunts. There is almost no way you can have that kind of intimate knowledge of draw units unless you hunt them every year with a camera.

The 5% here! Lmfao!

What the what? You lost me!

Just because it's a draw hunt doesn't mean it a good hunt.

Random responses to different points in the video, though this might end up sounding like a hunting resume (not intended): - I've about 4 areas I'll work. If it isn't in one of those 4 areas, I won't bother. I've a number of years invested in each area in terms of knowledge. Starting over with a blank slate is like starting behind the 8 ball. Which means out of state hunts are out of me. Can't afford it anyway. - People being private about low hanging fruit tags. Personally, I'm pretty tight lipped about ANY location information. I don't care if it's a yearly OTC tag, or a drawn tag. We've had so much west coast migration, I categorically will not list my home state in any video I post. To put it another way, in 2018 OTC tags would sell out in about a month or so. In 2019 they sold out in maybe 2 of 3 weeks. Ever since 2020, they sell out in SIX HOURS. People hound me all the time "What state?!?!" I ain't saying, though a few folks figure it out. If I get my annual OTC tag this year, I'll count myself lucky. I've thought more then once about stop filming my hunts, though I really do it for myself, and my family, which is why I keep doing it. - Application strategy * I categorically won't put in for 2 drawn tags in the same year. I'm very mission focused. One drawn tag is enough. I buy an OTC multiseason tag every year anyway. I've literally spent 10 days on the mountain on a drawn deer tag, come home for a day, then turn around and go back out on a general season OTC Elk tag. My wife is awesome. * I try to alternate drawn tags applications based on points saved or other conditions (bad year for elk/deer due to winter kill, number of tags cut, etc). Some years I'll just buy a point, in 2021 I put in for deer. In 2022 I put in for antlerless elk. This year I'll try for deer again though I don't think I'll draw it. Next year I'll either try for buck deer again if don't draw this year, or maybe antlerless deer or LE Elk. My idea is to keep one pool high in points, and rebuild the other pools over time. * My OIL hunt is never happening (48, going on 49, have 7 points, need 20+ points). My LE Elk hunt will be my OIL hunt for all intents and purposes. To that end I've been putting in for general season muzzy deer every other year or so, in one of the 4 areas I'll work. LE muzzy elk coincides with that time period. Sure I'll hunt for deer, but I'm really getting a feel for an area for Elk. Deer to me or an extra, I'm too much of an Elkoholic. Being the dumbass that I am, I'll hunt deer like I'm chasing elk 🙄 Anyway, Beer, like coffee, is rented not owned. Great video Cliff.