Dread Ep 05 - "Doom" clone for Amiga 500 - Weapons and pixels... 

That was the point! Thanks!

Thanks! :)

@@KKAltair Can't wait to see the end results. As an N64-fan, I'd love to see someone going through this much trouble to push that system so hard.

@@jakobholgersson4400 No matter what the platform, we all are retro fans now. Cheers! :)

Thanks! :) But right now there are no other coders heping me - I'm on my own, code-wise. The two graphicians I work with are doing awesome job, though. :)

You get someone who specializes in optimization, and it puts a whole new spin on things.

@@SomeOrangeCat At this point it's still more about algorithms and clever tricks than careful fine tuning.

@@KKAltair Well don't sell yourself short. That stuff doesn't figure itself out!

@@KKAltair maybe he means there are coders here taking an interest rather than helping. I was a coder once, I think.

Turns out it is. Thanks! :)

Sadly, he was right. Doom has much higher resolution, uses much slower rendering approach, has more complex levels, draws textured floors and processes logic with fixed 35Hz update rate. And every single one from this list is already a performance killer for Amiga, let alone all 5 together. But still, it's not my point to remake Doom, but to make something cool which was never done before. :)

Thanks! :) More is coming! :)

That was my thought as well when returning to the original Doom one day (with all due respect).

Thanks! Basically we did test a more violent shake but it just felt too much. The barrel already spins at a very fast rate and the shaking made it more blury which didn't felt quite right. This latest anim still has some recoil shaking (unlike the original Doom and Free-Doom chaingun variants) but it is subtle. Having said that we may revisit this in the future (once sounds are also in to get a better feel) ;)

The major problem was the firing rate. The chaingun fires 12.5 bullets per second and any more shaking at that speed would just blur the weapon. With all this firing, we even didn't have time to rotate the barrel properly (and still keep the animation clear), so it fires twice during the time a barrel moves by one position.

@@johntsakiris3717 You're a great spriter!

Thanks! :) I'm glad that the Spacemarine approves! :)

@@KKAltair I think they actually look a lot better than the original FreeDoom variants too, the chaingun looks fantastic!

@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine Actually, after I went back to the original Doom, they seem to look even better than the Doom ones. :)

Thanks a ton!

Thanks! Actually John made and sent me them before we even thought about any decision here. So I had to implement them not to waste his work, and there was no debate after seeing the results.

@@KKAltair this is really shaping up so good I am starting to think that if this came out in 1993 It might have bought our beloved Amiga some more years! So, so cool! :-D :-D

Please keep in mind that it runs at half the resolution and about 10-13 FPS. :)

@@KKAltair I understand this, but try to run the original Doom on a 8 mhz 80286 AT PC and see the frame rate one will obtain while attempting to run this game.

@@ridiculous_gaming I guess I don't even want to know. :D

Are you using flux capacitor or a rotating mirror array? :) In any case, write if you happen to need any help in 68000 coding. ;)

@@KKAltair Its 've been over e decade i use assembly but thanks!

Glad you enjoyed it!

Dzięki! :)

Glad you liked it! :)

As long as it looks good - it's good. :)

Thanks!

Thanks!

Thanks! :)

Thank you very much!

Just don't bring a second A500 there, because as I have null-modem deathmatch on my todo list, if all goes well, you will hardly get any job done then. ;)

I was kind of counting on this project attracting some talent eager to help, as I can't imagine any sane way of finishing it all bvy myself. :)

@@KKAltair Are there areas you need help? while I don't believe I myself could help, maybe someone reading this could.

Glad you enjoyed it!

Thank John! Without him I would never be able to make the weapons fit sprite limitations and still look good.

Thanks! :) I'm looking forward to it, too!

We've got some quite spectacular stuff coming up (in regards to further gfx improvements, especially for textures and enemies) , so stay tuned! :D

No, that would be way to awesome. :) And John Carmack is programmer, not gfx artist. :)

Thanks!

Definitely, especially if you happen to have some Fast RAM.

@@KKAltair 9.5 meg on a Furia :-D

It was kind of fun moment for me when I taken a peek at original Doom after playing with John's graphics for some time. Man, the original Doom chaingun felt so rough with its two firing frames. :) John did an awesome work here.

Thanks! Going by chance to Silly Venture?

Then go for it! :) A lot of work, but quite rewarding seeing the result. Alternatively, after we've got things sorted out we'll be starting a Discord server where people could be involved in the project if they like, or just hang around for a chat, if you'd be willing to have some fun with this engine.

Thanks! I could wonder, too, but sadly I never had A1200 in my life. :)

Glad you liked it!

Glad you liked it!

That was the mystery behind the "to be continued...". :)

Thank you! :)

Working on splash screen/menu system. With gfx from John, of course. :) When it's done, I'll make a video as well.

@@KKAltair Cool, im looking forward to see your work!

@@attilahavasi6987 Thanks! :)

Thank you so much 😀

In time it all would be in. I just don't want to end up with just another game engine, so I'm pushing in the game direction instead adding engine features. But I'm pretty confident I can implement varying floors and ceilings. As for map size, it's only limited by memory size. Hidden surface removal is done in such way that the engine totally doesn't care about map parts you can't see.

@@KKAltair Kind of like Doom's binary space partitioning, then?

@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine I'm using BSP, too, but that's just a data structure, which doesn't give visibility information by itself.

Well... since we have a spindown animation, it should stop somewhere random each time in reality. I know FreeDoom used idle frame with a barrel in the middle, but I kind of like it more this way. But in any case, this is trivial to change.

In this case, the coder (myself) thought it can't be done and the graphician (John) did it. :)

@@KKAltair Back when I did coding with a friend we had a saying "I need a bigger hammer!", because back then you had to brute force code everything.

@@SomeOrangeCat You don't need a bigger hammer. All you need is lower numerical complexity (or at least a way to skip some not needed computations). :)

Thanks! :)

Thank you! 😊

Thanks! I do my best! :)

Thanks!

Have fun! :)

Thanks!

Thanks!

Is CD32 that different to need porting? I could probably add gamepad support out of the box already. :)

@@KKAltair The cd32 isn't really all that different aside from the built in CD player. I've seen people port over games like Breathless and Alien Breed 3d 2 to it.

With CD32 you could have 256 color palette and more CPU power. Wait...maybe CD32 version of Dread?

@@dvuemedia 256-color palette would need major engine redesign, which I'm not willing to make right now (A500 is king). But more CPU power, especially coupled with some Fast RAM, is always welcome.

@@KKAltair No problem, A500 is priority.

Thanks! :)

I'm still watching this development. I do beleive if you complete this then people will start working on that time machine next haha. Ask John Ramero to do some levels for it!

This is already compatible with A1200 and runs really smooth. :)

Thanks!

Thanks a lot!

@@KKAltair :), no problem!

Thanks!

Definitely! :)

Should be easy, it has a faster CPU :-)

@@daishi5571 (amiga) 7.14 MHZ vs (atari st)8.00 MHZ not very impressive by the way no hard sprites and other stuffs for ST :-)

@@titinmire I was being facetious, I guess my inner snark didn't come through lol. This project is anything but easy!

You joke, but why wouldn't it be possible?

Thankfully A500 should do. :)

This will be probably configurable per-level in due time.

I have considered this, but as the Copper is busy duplicating screen lines, interleaving screen handling with sprite handling Copper code would be tricky.

I don't feel like master at all. I'm just doing my part, but there are clearly better coders than me on the OCS scene.

@@KKAltair I think the fact that you vlog in such detail is what sets you apart.

Thank you! Cheers!

Thanks! Currently it's just one exe file with one level. I still have to implement loading.

@Mahen Ounet uhh my fail ... yes 26-27years How time goes on

@@Flofutz the a500 came out in 1987... so you're talking 33 years dude!

@@paul2062 but i wrote "after its demise"

@@Flofutz yeah sorry I didnt read it properly my mistake

Subscribe + turn off all notifications for this channel (the bell next to the subscribe button). ;) And the next video is already in the works. :)

@@KKAltair I did. That's the point!

@@KKAltair can't wait

I'm still too far from even thinking about that, but one day, maybe... :)

That could be done, but would reserve one color purely for the skybox. And we do need those colors for other stuff.

Thanks! I wouldn't count on it being completed any reasonable future - too much work, given the current team. But I plan on releasing demos and WIPs once it gets into shape, so I suggest keeping an eye on the channel.

Sprity można dowolnie multipleksować - jak sie jakis skończy wyświetlać, to poniżej można go użyć ponownie. Przykładowo pomiar wydajności jest już zrobiony na sprite, który niżej staje się częścią broni. Także jak będzie trzeba, to HUD dopalimy. :) Do zrobienia jeszcze menu (in progress), dokończyć mapę i dobrze jakby efekty dźwiękowe. No, chyba że chłopaki od grafiki wymyslą znowu coś tak fajnego jak te sprity broni, że szkody by nie wrzucić. :)

​@@KKAltair Czyli ten HUD na spiteach by działał tak, że w jednej klatce wyświetlamy broń, w drugiej klatce zamiast broni wyświetlamy HUD w trzeciej klatce znowu zamiast HUDa wyświetlamy broń itd ? Nie będzie migotania wtedy ? ;)

Thanks!

Absolutely! Basically the video above is just the beginning of what's coming next. Virtually all the old assets are in the process of being retouched, tweaked or outright replaced with new ones, specifically made with the engine's strengths and limitations in mind. It's gonna get much, MUCH better visually so stay tuned ;)

Probably not, at least unknown to me.

Thanks!

That would be awesone. But first, I have to implement dynamic map loading from the FDD.

The engine naturally scales well into that. Very well, I might add. :)

@@KKAltair I bet. Though I was thinking how a similar ground up approach designed for AGA might benefit. The Doom clones of old basically treated the chipset as an obstacle to overcome so that they could focus on chunky pixel software rendering. And while this worked for faster CPUs, I always felt like there was an untapped happy medium somewhere. Seeing the use of real sprites for the weapons is exactly the sort of thing I mean.

@@0xABADCAFE Bitplanes *are* an obstacle, especially when you have to render walls in vertical stripes. But as I've said, the engine scales very well.

@@KKAltair yes I realise that planar graphics are a problem, hence copperscreens first and later c2p. C2P was great on faster CPUs but after then nobody thought about doing anything that wasn't just the CPU drawing into the chunky buffer and converting it to planar for display. Things like sprite weapon animation could've been handy there too. Less render effort for the CPU. I remember spending time writing c2p routines looking to get copyspeed. And weirdly later, doing the same thing for pixel format conversion in RTG because the existing methods were so slow. In hindsight I wish I'd spent more time embracing what the native chipset could do, rather than focusing only on it's limitations.

Thanks!

@@KKAltair can I really run it on my bare metal Amiga600?? Also I would like to play on ODROID GO ADVANCE pocket emulator =)

Already imagined. I wouldn't be able to sleep at least for three nights after buying it as a teenager (although I was a teenager in late 90's). And looks like that dream lived on until I've got the skill to pull it off. :)

@@KKAltair pc owner: I've got doom Amiga owner: ill just make it myself Pc owner: Hahaha whatever Amiga owner: learns to code and find all the methods .... creates fast 33 years later... haha.

@@paul2062 Exactly! :)

@@KKAltair not fast... fps haha

Well... the fact is, I *did* settle for it (at least the versions dithered in the previous episode). Just John didn't, sent me the ready sprites and at this point it would be shame not to use them. :)

Dzięki! :) O wiedźminie pomyślę. :D

Yes, the 3:42 part is just a mockup using animation program - just original sprites pasted onto a screenshot from our engine to get general look & feel.

@@KKAltair Ah ok, so it was just a mockup animation (But I've just checked, resized and put in 15 colors). When you see the final result of your work, it seems believable that the Doom weapons would look fine if implemented in the engine anyway. Thanks for the answers.

Było by i tak za dużo roboty ze skalowaniem. Znacznie łatwiej to zrobić na głównym ekranie w chunky.

The engine would be fine, but you would have to cut out too much data for it to be fun.

THX

Thanks! We have considered that option, but there are problems with this solution. The player shot or explosions can still overlap the weapon (drawn behind it), which we can't do given our 64px limitation. Also managing sprite split would be troublesome given that Copper is already juggling screen lines (halving vertical resolution) and we would have to rewrite entire copper list (right now we are just patching a certain part of it with new values).

It already is -> 18:56

Yup! All gfx are under a major overhaul as we speak. We even got another artist in the team recently, so there are even more goodies to come! ;)

Yeah, they are unstoppable and looks like there's not much stuff left they haven't started retouching already. :)

@@KKAltair please show us the background graphics done by them :)

@@dlfrsilver I'm making the menu system "making-of" episode (and implementing the menu itself at the same time), so there will be some more stuff coming. :)

@@KKAltair mmmhhh smells good :D

Maps would require retexturing and remapping things and line numbers, because I'm using my own identifiers for these. Also I'm not sure we will keep the space marine theme (making own games is fun!), so in the end our assets might not be useable for FreeDoom, which aims to recreate Doom look and feel. Other than that, it would be completely up to the artists.

@@KKAltair I'm speaking of FreeDoom strictly as the game engine, not the asset theme itself. So if Dread's engine will be "the same" as DOOM's engine, as in game limits, enemy behavior or map functions, it would be possible to do a 1:1 recreation of it as a FreeDoom-based IWAD.

@@supra107 FreeDoom is purely an assets projects, aimed to remake all assets from Doom.

That's completely different architecture, but considering it still uses the same CPU, probably yes.

He is still correct. This is not a straight Doom port, uses quarter resolution, completely different rendering algorithm and a lot of Amiga-specific tricks.

@@KKAltair never admit defeat or compromise. especially from the PC MASTER RACE :D . If he knew how to program (an amiga) he would run it on a minimum sys requirments. I mean , a 386 AND 4 MB RAM? WHAT ARE WE , THE 1 PROCENTERS :D

XD The war is over, I think we can enjoy sportsy competition of course.

@@Jammet Exactly. Especially since my channel is already crowding with PC intros and Atari prods. ;)

@@Jammet war, war never changes :D

Thanks! :)

We will be able to choose sample rate for each sound separately, so we will manage. Thanks! :)

@@KKAltair That's awesome!! 😀

The music is midi-files originally. If you're going to have the music I believe it's better to have them converted and optimized to Protracker mods. Please let me know if you want me to do that for you!

@@DjMetune I definitely will want original music for the game at one point. Also Protracker is far from being optimal, considering chipram usage. Paula sound chip is perfectly capable of wavetable playback and it's a shame that no tracker (that I know of) used this feature.

@@KKAltair Wow! Yes! Wave table synthesis would absolutely be super welcome for Amiga. If we could have a way to play it, also as a system friendly virtual synth output device for music (MIDI) development and easy playback. But it would be fantastic if the original midi-files could be playing, as you say. Though they are using more channels than we have Paula hardware channels. And at least one channel would need to be used quite frequently for the sound effects. www.dropbox.com/s/upqo63jkr65bml3/doommusic.zip?dl=0

You mean Blitter line mode? I think my c2p is already quite optimized, but suggestions are welcome. Currently: - source pixels are already 2x1 - blitter transposes and interleaves data in 2 passes (2x 320x100 x 4bpp of data in A+B+D mode), - blitter "nasty" is off, but blitter and screen swap is completely interrupt driven (and CPU already started rendering next frame) - lines are Copper-doubled I have no idea how to improve it further, but I'd gladly hear one. :)

@@KKAltair My approce give you the edge, to balance between blitter and cpu worload, and maybe to speed-up cpu rendering since chunky buffer must be rotated

@@alessandrodigaia9439 What is your approach, exactly? I couldn't understand it from the linked thread.

@@KKAltair simple. I set interleaved planes which are some sort of vertical chunky. Then i'll draw a line with blitter with pattern which Is 4 pixel chunky. So i fully convert them Just by drawing into planes. 1x2 Is made for free Just by setting right blitter Mask. 2x2 Is made allmost for free by copper. Since you can only convert 4 pixel at once, you can choice when doing them, during CPU rendering. By doing so, you can go fully 1x1 imternal rendering with CPU since 2x2 Is made by copper and blitter. So youre going to use less ram, maybe less CPU power to do actual rendering, and maybe speed up wall draw since chunky buffer must be rotated

​@@alessandrodigaia9439 My current solution does 2 Blitter 320x100x4bit passes, using ABD channels, for 97440 Blitter cycles total (including one extra word here and there for shifter to work). Column transposition is done in the first pass by splitting the pass in 20 word-sized slices. That's 44 Blitter operations total, but they are interrupt-driven, so CPU already renders next frame. Your suggestion is to draw 160 vertical lines, which would take roughly 92000 Blitter cycles (channels AD for the first line of a word, ACD for the remaining 7). So that might be slightly faster than my approach on the Blitter side, but will put more effort on the CPU to set up the 160 individual operations. And this would consume the benefit of driving Blitter with interrupts. CPU is at premium in my engine (I even wish there was a "blitter very nice" bit), so that won't work. Unless of course I didn't understand your technique and you can't do C2P with just 160 full height lines - in which case the results could be even worse. But the above is the lower bound estimate on filling screen with vertical lines.

Well, the final launcher design is already a lot different than the Freedoom one. Although the original was kinda weak in the first place (imho), so it's not a massive improvement. In any case the weapons are all gonna be replaced once we get closer to using original graphics for the full game. Until then the demo is planned to use mixed reworked free-doom assets and new ones, tailor made for the style and concept KK is aiming for (for this demo).

Looks like nothing can stop John from making the graphics. :) (not that I would even try to stop him)

Thanks! :) I would love to hear it!

@@KKAltair I can upload it on wetransfer and send you a link vie email, or i can post it here as a comment? Let me know :D its a work in progress but its about 90% done

@@slavkokozomora8893 Do as you prefer. If you like some publicity, link would be perfect. And in other case, find my email in contacts on devkk.net webpage.

@@KKAltair ive sent you the link by email, but here it is as well 😉 let me know what you think we.tl/t-tcQe0GdNgs

@@slavkokozomora8893 Good! :)