So Ms Marvel hasn't exactly gotten off to a strong start, much to nobody's surprise. Join us as we try to figure out why this show hasn't generated any interest from MCU fans.
"She's given some magic bracelets that give her power" If that origin story had come from the golden age - it would have been about how she was given her powers without earning them, and so ended up becoming arrogant and callous. That hubris would have caused her to end up hurting the people she loved and/or losing those powers. Then she would have had to learn, grow and strive to become worthy of having her powers again. But this is current year - and no one has to work, or endure, or sacrifice for anything anymore.
She literally demolished Avengercon to zero consequences or pushback. And just so happens that no one even got a scared knee from incident. Lucky I guess?
Most superheroes got their powers without earning them, though. It's usually either an accident (like Spiderman or the Flash), discovery of some magic artifact (like Blue Beetle or Stargirl), or just their inherent biology (Superman, Thor, basically any mutant/alien//demigod/Inhuman/Atlantean/etc). The heroes who have to work the hardest are almost always the ones with no inherent powers. Ms Marvel is now up to episode 3, is already reconsidering whether she's good enough to be a superhero (she publicly dropped someone she was trying to save), and whether it's worth all the danger and secrecy it's brought into her life. Seems like character development to me
@@Ruspanic There is always some kind of 'work', either before or after. Captain America 'worked' by being bullied all his life but still trying to better himself. Iron Man's 'work' was being imprisoned in a cave and seeing the negative consequences of his lifestyle. Spiderman had to put in the 'work' when he learned that 'with great power comes great responsibility'. What is Ms Marvel's 'work'? She destroys things and everyone loves her. You go, girl!
@@HerculesBallsInc how are you making that assumption based on one episode? Like I said, after she dropped a kid in episode 2 she got a lot of embarrassing negative publicity, plus she's being hunted by the government. Also, she has to lie to her parents and friends (classic secret identity struggle), especially because her parents are strict Muslims who disapprove of her acting out. The show has been slow at times, but it seems like there's plenty of struggle so far. If the stakes seem toned down its because this is basically a high school teen show aimed at a younger audience
I wished we could all send the Channel Terrible Writing Advice towards Hollywood and Marvel, which would both be a Giant Roast and also constructive Criticism.
Gary touched on something towards the end that I've been thinking for a long time now. Ever notice how many of these newer characters are just handed everything, usually by family members? It's like these people think nepotism is somehow relatable to a wider audience. I think it's a large part of why these characters fail.
"More views in one day than the premiere episode got in five" What actual talent, charisma and quality are worth from one person in a room being smarter than an entire production and millions of dollars. You get better number from a drunk critic in Scotland than a show on one of the top streaming platforms. Saying a lot here.
At the very least she's not a Mary Sue she's just a self insert. I wish I could say that was a good thing but it shows the narcissism and wish-fulfillment spiraling around in Marvel and Disney as we speak
Isn't a Mary Sue always a self-insert of the author which is why they're written to be practically flawless, overly competent and have every character love them or did the meaning of that term change over the years? Edit: Just to be clear my point is that I was of the impression that not all self-inserts are Mary-Sues but all Mary-Sues are by definition self-inserts and their flawlessness is a product of the authors need for wish-fulfillment. I never said that I believe all self-inserts to be bad. Just the ones that are Mary-Sues.
@@samsampleman2439 I didn't watch the show, but a non-Mary Sue self insert should be even worse, but possible. Just imagine it: you're watching the writer's sad and boring life.
@@samsampleman2439 a Mary Sue is the flawless character. A self-insert is putting yourself into the story. They are different things though a terrible writer will do them BOTH. That's a clueless narcissist with a pen. But self-inserts are not necessarily a bad thing, basically ALL of Philip K Dick's work was a self-insert. And if you find a horrible woman in the story, that will an "other" insert" and basically will be his most recent ex-wife. But PKD's self-inserts are wrought with angst, the same angst that plagued PKD his entire life.
@@darthkek1953 Agreed. Self-Inserts/author stand-ins are not necessarily a bad thing, and are fairly common in good, and classic literature. Hoping people don't rip on author stand-ins because of a few hack writers.
I looked up the viewership figures, with the show only reaching 775,000 views, and was not surprised to see articles reporting this as "BUT BUT BUT IT STILL GOT 95& POSITIVE RECEPTION FROM CRITICS WHO PRAISED IT FOR ITS DIVERSITY!!!". Also, considering blasphemers get prison time in Pakistan, if they're not beaten to death by enraged mobs first, I would *love* to see the reaction to the depiction of a quirky, perky Americanised Muslim teenage girl who treats drinking alcohol as "Whoops, tee hee!".
Uh it did get 81% from audiences, which actually considered kinda good score. As of now 98% from critics. TBH getting an average of almost 90% between both is a rare feat. I'm not a fan, I went into RT gleefully expecting crap audience score, but an average of 90% is what it is. We gonna shift goalpost and crap on the audience now? Or we can organise a mass review bombing? Will I watch it? Maybe not. Which means I wont bomb it either, that's just dishonest.
theres an element of tragedy when theyre violating / destroying once great characters and folklore of great films and comics, but with this- this character was never anything in the first place,
Yup, I think some of the views are pity views, because we can't bring ourselves to sit through that garbage, but we gotta respect someone who could! That, and we'd rather give out view to someone reacting to the garbage than even make it almost look like we support the garbage itself.
In the comic book, she becomes disenchanted with Carol Danvers when she goes full fascist during the Civil War arc. Of course we'll never see that in the MCU! They can't tarnish their "feminist icon". 😂
Especially since NOBODY SHOULD FUCKING KNOW CAPTAIN PLANK! She's NOT an earth based hero! She has spent MINUTES on earth in the last 2 decades in universe! LITERAL MINUTES! And in ZERO of those was she doing anything substantial. Even in the final fight against Thanos all she did was show up and get punched, which was one of my favorite parts of the movie. She shouldn't HAVE any branding!! SHE'S NOT EVEN IN THIS GALAXY!
To me, I didn't mind Ms. Marvel up until the latest episode. It's a pretty standard teen flick to be honest. Nothing we haven't seen a thousand times before. There's the stock "nerdy male best friend who secretly has feelings for the girl", the "female best friend who feels betrayed when she learns about the secret"; the "parents who don't understand", and then we throw in the "dark family secret". There's even the "popular girl high-school rival", and the "dark handsome new boy who forces the nerdy best friend to confront his feelings". It checked all those boxes just fine. The main actor is decent in the role. Production values are good. They use some neat visual tricks to make the incessant texting between people more interesting than just putting text boxes on the screen. (God, I'm old. Why don't people talk to each other on the goddamn phone fer fucks sake) Anyway -- where they lost me was this last episode, where they completely fumble the "wait -- these nice people are the bad guys" schtick. Kamala has _only just met them_ in this episode, and they start out like "we're all friends, and we knew your grandma, and we're also secretly Djinn, and so are you! Please help us get home." Everyone is all friendly, and it looks like Kamala wants to help them, so we're all fine. By the end of the episode, they're just trying to kill her. Despite the fact no one knows if the magic bangle can be used by anyone else to get them home. "We can't wait any more" says Evil Mastermind #1. You've been waiting for hundreds of years you moppet! What's another couple of weeks? I mean, you went from "please" to "kill her" in a fucking day. But, as Drinker likes to say "So the plot can happen, I guess"...
Maybe you should learn to think for yourself, dont let Drinker think for you. The reason that the nice baddies turned on her was because they were desperate to go home and were being nice because if they told her that she may have to destroy the world, she may not want to help them. They even lied to the leaders son Kamaran too. But you were busy looking for woke things to be mad about, you missed a very conspicuous moment in the movie. Her white MALE friend told her that, the power needed to open the portal successfully, would be explosive. So, she asked for more time and they didnt't want to wait any longer, so they said they would force her. They had been on earth for 100s of years.
@@sguardian870 heh. I think you've read too much anti woke sentiment into my thoughts here. If you read what I wrote again, you won't find any complaints about how woke it is. In fact, I didn't really notice any specific "agenda" as the Drinker sees in most of his reviews. All my criticisms were about the hasty face-heel turn, which has no political overtones at all. And also, when I wrote that (over a year ago!), the part about destroying the world had not been revealed yet. Even so, I stand by feeling like they could have made the enemy more nuanced. They had been waiting for hundreds of years to get back. Waiting a few more weeks to cajole and deceive an impressionable teenager who started out sympathetic should have been easy. And also in character, as the Djinn were said to be deceptive and manipulative.
@eraz0rhead or maybe they were desperate. Their own family Aisha had betrayed them by choosing to save earth. They were desperate. Israel is acting irrationally today over 1400 deaths. They have killed 10k and dont care. When people feel wronged , they are not always rational. I think it was accurate
Really good point about how they expect a character's powers to equate to their strength as a character. We don't love Spider-Man because he can jump really high. We love him because he's a selfless hero, loyal to his friends and family, working from a place of responsibility. He's also funny and a bit of a dork. That's a strong character.
@@alanroberts6086 Excellent point. From the moment in the trailer that Ms. Marvel started complaining about how "Brown girls from Jersey" aren't commonly heroes, I knew this wasn't a character designed to relate to the whole audience. You can tell stories that deal with race without alienating people.
@@ADSheehan Because sometimes stories are not meant to relate to everyone? Like how people complained that Turning Red was only reletable for young girla, that was the entire point
@@simplyawful543 no, people complained about Turning Red only being relatable to a demographic so niche that it practically could be defined as "the writer plus friends and some family of the writer" because of how very specific everything was. Something doesn't have to be for everything, because nothing is for everyone, but something does have to at least be for a demographic that is both big enough to turn a profit from and actually exists.
I was never a comic book fan but I still loved the first Iron Man movie because it was interesting and compelling and Robert Downey Jr absolutely nailed the role. In short, it was a good movie and got me interested in the other films
Even her name itself is a misconception. They call her Miss Marvel and yet her powers are more in line with Mister Fantastic. But because her power is and Captain Marvel's powers have Kree origins, that that justifies her getting the Marvel name as well. In no way shape or form does that make sense. It's very surface-level logic.
Wasn't Carol's Hero name (in the MCU at least) derived from the name of Science Lady (who I guess was a Kree) as opposed to the Kree faction that she went rogue from? Why would Kree-originated powers prompt the "Marvel" name when the only two people connected to the title that are known in the universe actively hate and reject the Kree?
If it's any consolidation, this series turned her into some kind of Green Lantern because apparently they didn't have the budget for stretchy limbs, let alone those inflated fists her comic version does all the time?
@@EvilDoresh in their defense after seeing the really old Fantastic Four movie that was painful to watch as they did t have the technology or prop use to make Mr Fantastic realistic... better this. If I remember correctly the last scene was Reed waving out the top of a car and it looked so fake and dumb I felt bad for the prop and effects dept as they did the best they could with what they had.
RE: The Carol Danvers Character Problem She has no vulnerabilities, both physically and emotionally. You feel for the frail, honorable Steve Rogers, his passion at odds with his initial physical limits. You get Tony Stark's slow painful self-realization of his role in warfare and death. You understand Thor's arrogance and shame as he matures. These vulnerabilities connect them to the same pain in the audience. Carol Danvers has no humility. No vulnerability. No humor, or warmth. No pain to share. The audience will never connect to her.
And on top of that the actor made a slew of misandrist statements right before release, damaging her brand, and burning up a lot of good will with her customers.
In a sense, the way you are describing Captain Marvel kinda has me thinking of what WWE was trying to do with Roman Reigns from 2015 through 2018. Though even then, I find that Roman Reigns to have more of a character/personality.
@@louisduarte8763 super man has 5 more "weaknesses" than captain marvel. It's not much. But good writers can use that. Edit... it's actually kryptonite, Red Sun, code against killing, Magic, psionics, mind control, humility, has to protect Lois, Jimmy always and people generally, has to maintain secret identity, and I think I still missed one.
There’s no adversity, I know this topic is talking about the protagonist, but what about the antagonist, no one ever talks about or bats an eye with the villains in modern superhero stories mostly because they get easily deal with like swatting a fly. Prick your protagonist, let the villains throw hands and gain the upper hand so it feels EARNED when the hero wins by outsmarting, or outmatching the villain who’s proven their threat level.
The show's first episode was mind blowing for me. It felt like a completely fresh new show, had so much personality with the treatment, the actors, the setting, the visuals, the music. Everything felt so great! And right from Ep 02 they just destroyed it all.
@@RileyTaker what happened with Moon Knight? Personally, I think Moon Knight is the only show released by marvel in phase 4 that is amazing and fresh. I'm also so happy that there isn't any other elements from other marvel characters that appear on the show. You can also watch it without needing to watch other marvel content. And it feels like a breath of fresh hair. The show is original, isn't woke and has a genuine story.
This Ms Marvel Show throws into contrast the two distinct groups of people around today. Her motivations are practically the same as those of Saitama from One Punch Man, wanting to be a superhero so that people will recognize and like her, but the story goes exactly the opposite way. Saitama constantly gets overlooked and overshadowed in his world, but his real moment is when he defeats the Deep Sea King, and the crowd begins to really care about him, and he looks down at Mumen Rider and makes the choice that if popularity and praise come at the expense of the other heroes he's will to give it up. Duty over self, sacrifice for others with no expectation of reward is what makes a hero. Marvel, both Studios and Comics, have lost that vision, and Disney always had a childish and tenuous grasp on it as well.
"Duty over self, sacrifice for others with no expectation of reward is what makes a hero". Why do we want all heroes to be the same, i thought we wanted originality and different, why should all heroes be selfless? They are human, they can want fame and glory and still save the day. What you want is a set storyline for all characters and that is boring. I'm tired of the selfless white cap saint-like heroes. I want people who are not perfect or in it for boring reasons but instead are human.
I am baffled by the amount of sponsored sites saying how great the show is. They seem to be all about how great the agenda is rather than the show itself. Anyone who points out the show isnt good is immediately regarded as a hater.
I actually don't mind it. It's what it says it is on the box. Not some bait and switch thing. You know exactly what themes it'll push and what the journey is. I have issues when they insert this nonsense into other well established IPs.
@@IBLIZA23 Agreed, I didn't like the trailers and thought the show wasn't for me, gave it a pass, same with She Hulk But it's still better than being lied to and tricked into seeing something like MOM
@@IBLIZA23 You and I know exactly what is going to happen, yes. But that is not what was 'on the box'. It was marketed as a fun superheroish story, probably geared toward young adults. It was not marketed as a vehicle for right-think for people afraid of being cancelled.
@@HerculesBallsInc Dawg if you're afraid of voicing your opinions on films and tv featuring minorities and women, I think you should take a second to think of what exactly the thing you're complaining about is. Otherwise, say it.
8:22 Ironically, there's a character named Kendo in the Japanese anime/manga series, My Hero Academia, with a power that makes her fists giant. The author actually made her cool by making her intelligent and mature in such a way that she could make creative use of her power. I don't expect any maturity from Ms. Marvel.
Saying it was made for a small demographic is an understatement. It was made for the person who created the self insert character. That's it. Nobody else is meant to enjoy this.
Since there is no voting system on Disney+ (unlike RU-vid or Netflix) I decided to vote against this show by not even attempting to watch it. Drinker's analysis of the trailer was enough for me and a friend of mine who actually watched the first episode confirmed that everything Drinker had predicted is exactly how the show is.
@@justinlast2lastharder749 The real horror isn't the time travel part, but the fact that they just brought everyone back with *no* consideration *at all* for what that would do to civilizations around the universe. To be real, though, The Snap was stupid anyway(for reasons that were covered extensive by just about every content creator and their dog over the years), but so was the fact that Thanos was able to destroy the stones at all, let alone survive the act. They didn't have to do time travel, just not have them find and kill Thanos so quickly that they could've just included it at the end of Infinity War.
@@InfernosReaper they should've kept the snap, but make every hero survive, why? because, doesnt even matter anway. Infinity war was mostly a well made comic book action movie but it never had any real stakes
drinker is a fresh take on what the audience is not only what we’re actually thinking, but also what we’re saying out loud. congrats on beating the algo
Writing was on the wall with Captain Marvel and the she-ro scene in End Game. Vacuous, politicized, throw spaghetti at the wall content. After End Game I recall thinking "Well boys, we had a good run..."
@@GopaiCheems There was nothing subtle about the ending scene in Shang-Chi where he sister becomes the head of the Ten Rings and has an army of women lol
@@WiseMan-117 ok true lol but at least it was set up properly...they said before that Wenwu didn't allow her to train, sure he gave a reason like "you remind me of your mother" but that's semi-BS. In Endgame there is zero setup, no payoff, and in Captain Marvel they try shoving in a montage but it's really clumsy and not done well
Ms. Marvel is the first MCU show I haven't watched, and it won't be the last one I skip. I think the biggest problem with this show, more than any problem with the writing or acting or themes, is that the target audience really does come off as exactly teenage girls. I don't have a problem with that, but it feels really weird for MCU content to aim for such a narrow demographic.
Why do people even watch cheap woke capeshit like this anymore, unless they're getting paid for it? Who could be so desperate for insipid, empty and pointless entertainment?
They're not making these movies for teenage girls. They're making these movies to deliberately elicit fan backlash so they can scream and cry about how racist and sexist everyone is, which allows them to mine victim points for their political causes. "Look at us, we're oppressed victims, feel pity for us, we're the underdog, give us free stuff and do everything we want!" These people are parasitising victimhood and human altruism, which represents a dire threat to the altruistic glue that holds our very civilisation together. This behaviour needs to be indicted as a crime against humanity.
@@Mystikan my exact thoughts when I saw Kenobi, the plot is so bad that I'm sure they took most of the decisions thinking on how could make it an argument about racism against Reva. I accept there are a few stupids attacking her, but I'm sure Disney magnified it to cover a shitty show... and I wouldn't be surprised if it was Disney itself who attacked her using fake accounts, just for propaganda.
What are you talking about, everybody saw the show. It is the most tv show of all time. I especially liked the part where Ms. Marvel said "IT'S MARVELIN' TIME!" and marveled all over those guys.
They have to lie to get their audience angry. As people get more money in their pockets, they are going to start going to the movies and paying for streaming, so the numbers are going to go up and the talking point about how people are sick of woke, will no longer make sense and they will lose views. So, now they are just straight up lying.
That failed Avengers skinnerbox game used Ms Marvel as the central character of the group. To quote ZP, the end result was the amazing human diversity quota.
I'm showing my age but this "power" gaining reminds me of "The First American Hero". It was a very short lived series. About a guy who acquires a super suit with a instruction manual. He then loses the manual and has to learn how to use the suit without it. He then gets another copy of the manual only to lose it almost as soon as he gets it. The entire series rolled around the idea that he had to learn how to use the suit and the misadventures that go with that process. For you gamers out there, think of it as you max level a character in a game and your 4 year old nephew then plays the character knowing really nothing about the characters skills, equipment, or ability.
Reminds me a bit of Kamen Rider Kuuga, the only Kamen Rider who had to rely on vaguely-translated ancient scriptures to have any kind of idea what his powers even _are_
I think Jessica jones Jessica has very limited powers but is a very strong and fully decent character She us filled with angst and paranoia and loneliness all of which come from her own past. All the while she is trying to do the right thing within those serious problems Ritter really captures this character Proof that it can be done
Another character that most of the people being called an *ist actually really like. JJ as a show handled some really, really sensitive subjects in a manner that everyone could get on board with.
I had no interest in watching this show and nothing has changed my mind. Disney believes fans of this genre will watch whatever woke nonsense they put a Marvel name on but we're fans of Tony Stark, Thor, Hulk, Black Widow and the rest of the pre-woke characters. The MCU was really good before it wasn't.
@@GopaiCheems Black Widow was an important part of the MCU before it turned to the M-SHE-U. The fact that her movie didn't do well can be blamed on how Disney handled things and the fact that her movie came out long after she was killed off.
I had no idea it was out. Don't get me wrong--I haven't watched or cared about the MCU for a couple years now, but even without paying attention I'm still aware of what's premiered, but I had no clue about this cuz no one is talking about it.
After seeing Top Gun: Maverick the other day and talking about it with my brother, we came to realise that out of all the films we saw, or were aware of, released during the year only the Disney films (e.g. Doctor Strangs, Lightyear, Turning Red) were the ones we didn't really like at all and considered flops. I wouldn't even say it was because of personal preference, outside of Turning Red which was just horrendously animated, rather that they were just objectively, patently _bad_ and that's weird to me, how a multibillion dollar critically acclaimed entertainment monopoly can just consistently output flop after flop despite having all the resources and theoretically access to only the best talent... ...is what I would say, considering what the current year is and how they still do somewhat well at the box office, but it's still a bit mystifying given how Lightyear unanimously flopped across all parties.
Although Dr Strange is currently grossed $950M on a budget of $200m + $200M marketing. Does $600M constitute a flop ? Many of these movies, crap though they are, still appear to be getting bums on seats, raking in the cash, and so the machine will continue to make them !
I liked Strange 2, it wasn't art but it entertained me. Even though the "Memory Shop" made me LOL literally out loud thanks to the Drinker's heads-up on that one. But Scarlet Witch slaughtering the 868 smugerati was worth the free download, that's for sure.
I’m in the “MCU should have ended at Endgame” party. We didn’t need anything more, and now the ratio has flipped to the barely decent and outright bad stuff outnumbering the good stuff. It’s going downhill fast.
@@RayenR Looking back at the whole list of the Infinity Saga, you're right. There are definitely movies I would watch again and movies I would skip over after seeing once, and it's roughly 50-50. However, I wouldn't call the skippable ones bad either. "Bad" would be the likes of Green Lantern or that weird Fantastic Four movie they released in 2015. I would pick any of the Infinity Saga movies over them any day of the week.
6:55 somebody spiked her drinks with alcohol, the LIED to her that it doesn't have alcohol so she drank it, but once she tasted it she got rid of the drink.
I was kind of intrigued because I kind of liked the character Then the trailer came out and it looked like a high budget Nickelodeon show and gave her bootleg green lantern powers then I noped right out of that Might give it a watch when it wraps up but I’m not expecting to enjoy it
I tried watching it but I just couldn’t after they started talking about a Muslim girl not following their tradition and the main character says “good for her” already knew it was gonna be one of those woke shows
@@The.Ghost- it’s actually really good. I don’t think exploring other cultures of people who exist is automatically woke (whatever that means?). Its been really cool learning about Muslim culture in a way I hasn’t seen before
@@JordanEvansMusic he didn’t say exploring the culture is woke Also I don’t really want to see that kind of stuff in a superhero series, it just feels forced if they’re making her religion a big thing
I was a huge comic book fan over 1200 issues of collected through my life of various characters and there's one thing I know regardless how many characters I like it doesn't mean they need to be brought to the screen small or big.
Let’s just say I’ve been in a lot of arguments over this show within my family…I mean I’m being forced to watch it with my family and really they have to listen to me rant about it and how bad it is. It’s their fault I guess! It has shit writing. Demographic seems to hit so damn low, even though I’m the required demographic (I understand it’s for teenage girls and I count in that) but like even they can’t get that right! Can Disney do anything right? Well how about you decide!
@Robert Hughes It`s not, its just that most are pussies too afraid to say what they think about this insanity for fear of losing their jobs and social isolation... There aint that many of them.
My kids are watching it, loving it. Truth is, Ms Mavel did not flop, not for Disney, not for Marvel. I guess, it is a matter of age and having kids. It is kids' TV. As for me... well, let's say, after Peppa Pig, Paw Patrol, not everything on TV is as funny and entertaining for parents as Minions. ;) Therefore, reviews and rants are cool. Just do not forget your own social bubble.
"They've been forcing it for years." Yeah, that was obvious from the outset. And is part of why the audience rejcts those characters. Marvel's ongoing attempts to force characters with the name "Marvel" to become popular Marvel characters is fundamentally ill concieved. Pairing that effort with crap characters, crap writing and crap art doesn't help.
@@davidmun1601" immensely popular" bruh she's not even 1 bit popular 😂. Comic fans don't like her at all and don't buy her comics reasons why some of her comics stopped printing more 😂😂. Casual fans haven't even heard of her till the show 😂😂 this show received the least views out of all mcu shows and according to majority of audience it is a mediocre show at best lol🤣🤣
Popularity , lol it took about 4 years for her comic to sell 500,000 copies , compare that to other comics or he'll even a manga like one piece that sold 10 million copies alone in 2021 . So ms marvel is only loved by the disney and mcu shills , veteran and TRUE fans of marvel don't give a damn about her .
Drinker, you boisterous imbiber you! Love that you are going to have a talk with Adil El Arbi and Bilal Fallah. 2 prodigies that we Belgians are really proud of. Can't wait to watch your interview.
Yes, 'black' for example is a very good film. Because of their ethnic background I would fear them being pushed in the "diversity hire" category when participating in these type of projects, when they are actually very talented and smart guys who know what they're doing. Them having this conversation really is in line with their positive, can-do-attitude, a nice variation from the current fanblaming attitude we often come across.
I wished we could all send the Channel Terrible Writing Advice towards Hollywood and Marvel, which would both be a Giant Roast and also constructive Criticism.
Love the perspective. Marvel is torpedoing their own success. Would love to see a video on the miss opportunities MCU. After Endgame, the MCU could have gone in a darker and more interesting direction that would have been much more interesting (and entertaining). Would love the opportunity to converse with the group about it. Keep it up Drinker. I am like many fans hoping and waiting for the pendulum swings the other way.
If they had of just stuck with the same formula that made them loved by audiences they would have been fine. But instead it looks like they have gone for the secret gay agenda.
It seems like Marvel wants to create multiple branches focused on various styles of superheroes. The "New Avengers" which is what is expected from a superhero movie, "Champions" which will be aimed at younger audiences, and "Midnight Sons" which will take a more mystical tone with Zombies, Vampires, and possibly Angels and Mephisto (if rumours about Ghost Rider's return are true). I'm guessing they will have a darker tone with the Thunderbolts and the potential Midnight Sons. I just hope they don't hold back like they did with Hawkeye's Kingpin and Moon Knight.
My oldest son got me to watch the 1st episode because he wanted to she how bad it sucked. Yea it sucked big time. He said it felt like watching The Thunder mans or Lab Rats with bigger special effects. I told him "your grounded for a week for convincing me for watching that shit!!!"🤣🤣🤣
@@MrLavajet He loves that show. On the weekends we have anime binge nights. I have been getting my kids to watch old school stuff like Fist of North Star and they have gotten me into the newer stuff like Attack on Titan. Nothing beats hanging with the kiddos.
I’d rather watch the Drinker get wasted on Toilet Duck, “party hard” with Tatyana, and go on a drunken rampage through the streets of Glasgow before waking up on a deserted island with a shovel in one hand and his Doctor Who teddy bear in the other… than watch Ms Marvel.
Wait wait wait… your saying that you don’t need to watch a character that looks like you; and want actual good writing and character development… HERESY! you clearly have internalized white straight male patriarchal tendencies; please report to your local Police station to report yourself… you evil bigot.
I watched the first ep. It's for teenager girls and seemed bland, so I checked out. Wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of the target audience didn't even watch that first ep.
@@chasehedges6775 Honestly, it’s hit and miss nowadays in my opinion Some things are decent and some things were just unnecessary set ups for sequels. Honestly, I found the last end credit scene in Doctor Strange 2 more intriguing than the first one
It was released in India but believe me no one relates from her so no one watched it. Being a marvel fan since 2012 I can say that, phase 4 isn't doing that well in India except spider man and dr strange (didn't watch it myself). So coming to the show, ms marvel being Pakistani, there goes more than half of the audience (enemy nation and all). Her pronunciation of the name is wrong it's pronounced kmla not kamla or kmala(yes, your VP pronounces it wrong too), Sanskrit word meaning lotus, and believe me you wouldn't find any Indian muslim named kmla let alone a Pakistani (cuz it's a Hindu name who most of them hate since once upon a time they were hindu themselves). From trailer it looked like a show made by a Pakistani girl living among Indian immigrant wanting to be "desi" and failing miserably at it.
Exactly. I being a Indian living in India for my whole life never heard Kamala used by musl im women in my entire life and I had lot of Muslim friends. It's a hindu name and it's a very old fashioned name which even new generation of hindu don't use. I guess people working at Marvel just thought of some random names in Indian subcontinent and added Khan to it to make it sound Muslim .
"I want to congradulate drinker on getting more views on his video about it than it had viewers." More views in 1 day than the premier in 5 days. That shows why you never want a self insert. Much less a self insert on a non-story.
I've seen Ms. Marvel and I would love to say something more about it, but it feels like not much has happened in the 3 episodes out so far. Here's the mystery box. Let's ignore the mystery box. The mystery box gave us a clue! That summarizes the three episodes out so far.
"It is the line of thinking that the character's actual strength in terms of their powers somehow equates to them being a strong character, like an interesting character. And it doesn't work like that." YES! Thank you! Batman has little physical strength compared to the other superheroes and yet, he remains one of the strongest, most popular, most interesting characters. Meanwhile, the Beyonder is difficult to relate to.
It flopped because Disney thought it was a good idea to release it alongside one of the most anticipated shows in history. It's no surprise ended up being overshadowed by Obi-Wan Kenobi
Drinkers statement of not feeling anything after watching the show is exactly how I’m feeling. Not disappointed, not happy, not angry: just nothingness.
Tinfoil hat time: with the obvious link to Captain Marvel, the failure lends credibility to Captain Marvel not doing too well despite what the media reported. Remember all the photos of nearly empty movie theaters on opening weekend despite the same showings bring completely booked?
I would say check her out through the video game they nearly made her the lead in. It’s a surprisingly good single player experience and they way she gets her powers there makes much more sense. “avengers”. She’s also very respectful of what came before her.
People who were saying that it can be huge in South Asia, doesn't know the geopolitics of that region. American left sees people by skin colours and thinks that people who look like her will feel represented by her. Did anyone else really think that people of India would relate to a Pakistani girl living in the US?
thats a brutally honest take on how re tard ed they are. ( reposted because youtube is also woke and re tard ed and deletes your free speech for saying words they dont like)
I've been listening to The Knights Watch review the show, and while they say the first 2 episodes didn't feel like a superhero show, they overall liked it, while they've trashed pretty much all the other new Disney+ shows.
Ms.Marvel’s comic powers always came off as gross to me. She never wore gloves so the image of giant fingers and fingernails coming at me is just disgusting. At least with Mr.Fantastic he wears gloves so it’s not bad. Can you imagine if Ms. Marvel was barefoot? Giant feet and toes coming down on you. Bleh.
Nerdrotic nailed it when he said the show was made for a very small demographic. Much of Episode 1 felt like a bad Bollywood NRI (Non Resident Indian) film - the family dynamic, the "good girls don't dress like this" POV. Ms. Marvel is essentially an ABCD (American Born Confused Desi) and I don't think most people in the West would understand or even care about someone like her. The vibe of Episode 1 was a lot like Gurinder Chaddha's "Bend It Like Beckham" which was one of the early films of Kiera Knightley and Johnathan Rhys Myers (also Archie Punjabi aka Kalinda from The Good Wife). In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the story of Ms. Marvel was inspired by that film.
If Indian movies and stories made a push like manga and anime and manhwa(manhua, not sure why I've seen both spellings) they could get an Indophile audience like Japan and Korea does. Not cater to the US but some story that gives enough cultural context to bounce to the next story.
@Robert Hughes - India has some excellent regional cinema. Two recent releases that I think you'll like are RRR and Pushpa. They're an incredible adrenaline rush but don't expect any logic :P A forthcoming Bollywood film is Brahmastra which is probably the first proper mainstream Bollywood attempt at fantasy. Oh, and then there's Bahubali Parts 1 and 2 (again regional, not Bollywood).
The reason nothing happens in these Disney shows is that they are made for women. Read a book that's aimed at women. Nothing happens! It's gotten to the point where I skip over almost every show with a female lead, because I just assume it's going to be aimed at women.
Her entire bit is that she “wants to be a superhero” so therefore she becomes a superhero. No struggle, no real backstory, nothing to make her relatable. She’s a character made to appeal to a very tiny demographic that ultimately probably won’t care about the Marvel property at large.
Worst part is most heroes who want to be heroes have to try,in DC,Marvel,Image etc I’m Invincible Mark was strong but he has to try to get that power and it was fun watching him grow
Nerdrotic is overreacting. The actress is actually great and charismatic as Kamala Khan. She already overcame what I imagined in the comics. The writing is what’s lacking… Daisy Ridley wasn’t to blame for the Disney Star Wars trilogy. She was charismatic in a script that offered her nothing. I feel the same way about the actress that plays Kamala. She rocks. I just wish the writing was better.
Here is the thing it certainly is agenda driven. The comic book character was created for that purpose. However, I'm a person who didn't know anything about the comic book or character at all. So, watching the show has been like watching a more serious Disney Channel show instead of an MCU show. It isn't badly acted (the main lead is good) and the story itself is decent. It is way better than I thought it would be.
To my surprise I actually like it. The production design, creative editing and cinematography are much more interesting than in Hawkeye and Moon Knight. The family and friendship stuff is really well written. It’s not meant to be a cool action series for hardcore Avengers and comicbook fans. If you approach it with this attitude, it can be pretty entertaining.
My take on all these is that you will find/see what you want to see. If you want to see woke-ness, then that's all you will see. If you are just watching this for fun, like me, you will be entertained
One aspect I am wondering about. Ms. Marvel was for what seemed a teen, if not teen girl audience. Do you think it will work with that base? I'm just wondering if Marvel is orienting away from the current base for a newer fanbase?
teen girl here and i couldn’t even finish the first episode 😔 the writing is just… bad. obviously the first episode isn’t going to be the best one, but it should capture attention and simply put, it just didn’t. the lines are shallow and the characters are so basic/shallow as well.
Nobody wanted it. It's a teenage soap opera. If they made this as a teenage show and expected low figures, then it might have been considered a success. But they expect these things to be as popular as the most popular characters RIGHT AWAY. If they made it a niche product they would not set themselves up for embarrassment and failure. So nobody watches it and then WE all get the blame. Even though the target audience aren't watching it either.
I read somewhere that Disney is planning new seasons of Daredevil, Iron Fist, and The Punisher. I love all three of those shows, and was almost excited, but then I realized that Disney will almost certainly give them to the same team of idiots responsible for all the Captain Marvel crap. With that in mind, I’d rather they just left them cancelled.
As for Captain Marvel being OP, I feel like you have three options, DBZ, One Punch Man, or Overlord... 1) Keep making enemies much stronger than you 2) Make her comically strong but isn't recognized or appreciated for it 3) Become the OP villain people enjoy watching But unless corporate does a 180, they're not going to show a strong female character get owned on screen, while not getting recognized for her deeds, and she can't be a true villain that we love to hate because she's a she and needs to be redeemed at the end. or I suppose they can somehow De-Power her so she doesn't get written out of her own movie like she was in End Game. Else it's just going to be a boring CGI fest.
i am from one of the "dry countries" and i realy find the character very offensive starting from being a lesbian we are treating our women like true queens and pieces of jewelry ... disney is trying to woke them to be lesbo BIG NO !
@@ahmedabdulkareem4683 I think you’re confusing Ms Marvel with something else. She’s 100% isn’t a lesbian and there hasn’t been a hint of any Lesbians in the show as of episode 3.
It's such a shame because the actress is good, she's respectful of the source material and she said wanted to bring more than just making identity politics her only sense of 'character'. But the whole angle of the character somehow knowing enough about the Infinity Saga to know what went down but not enough to stop her from having the judgement that Captain Marvel did all the work? It's just the laziest writing. That opening where she attributed all the good to Captain Marvel but missed out Cap wielding the hammer, Thor, Tony and Cap also helping prevent Thanos from getting the gauntlet, Wanda vs Thanos and Tony sacrificing himself. It's all just an extremely thinly veiled, contrived effort to say 'Hey guys, this is why Carol's Captain Marvel is so uber powerful, like we wanted from day one, please like her over the legacy characters!' and we won't do it. I do like Carol and I do like Brie but this constant ramming her down our throats and always at the expense of the other characters is the number one worst way to ever do it and it shows in the reception. And the baffling thing? Like you say, they keep acting like strength and power are the number one quota for being an interesting character with conviction. But if that were true, again, they'd go straight to Strange, to Thor, to Hulk, to Wanda, to Namor, to Wonderman, to Hercules, to Gladiator? Like, they'd go for the actual heavy hitters. But the weirdest part is how they boost, boost, boost Captain Marvel so, so, so far beyond what she ever was in the comics but then nerf the actual powerhouses and try to palm it off to you like this is the norm and that you should like Captain Marvel more because they wrote her to kick more ass than the characters who should be on an entirely different level to her? It's so, so odd and manufactured.
I went from liking brie in a generic way to liking her specifically from movies like Scott Powers to being put off by her comments to disliking her for her comments. Parallel with that, I had no feelings regarding Captain Marvell (who I thought of as the blond comics version from the 80s). But the choice to insert her after infinity wars put me off big time. It was disrespectful to every other actor and character who had been part of the process up to then and also very deus ex machina. I watched a reactor who watched the movie in time order so it was the 3rd movie seen. It felt *much* better. Then she was foreshadowed over 15 films before and called back and didn't feel like a deus ex machina. With the combination, Its the one mcu film I skipped and her character was the reason I didn't see Endgame twice after seeing Infinity War six times.
And you know what’s sad, Ms Marvel somehow has a higher audience rating score than on a rotten Tomatoes Obi Wan Kenobi? I don’t know if it’s sad because Obi Wan has divided a fanbase, but it’s still weird
@@chasehedges6775 Honestly, Kenobi had some good things in it. Story wasn’t perfect (*Cough* Episode 4) but there was good stuff like Darth Vader, Ewan McGregor, the young Leia, the final duel between Vader and Obi Wan, Vader toying with Reva and the last episode That’s just my opinion anyway
You know it's a bad character when they have to force it in everywhere rather than let it become popular through quality. Either improve it to hit the mark or drop it.
How is the character jammed down people's throats? The show is called Ms. Marvel, it is about her. It's not like they put her into another characters show, like they did with Sylvie on the Loki show.
@@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09 It's more about Marvel as a whole if you know about the comics you feel about marvel's pushing then you would know. I'm fine with her having a show I'm just not fine with her being jammed into everything
@@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09 It's not just that it's the fact that they'd be little their legacy characters in order to push these characters who have no background and expect everything. And if you don't like these characters who are somehow better than the old characters even though they have no experience than you are a(insert insult of chose).
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: MS Marvel, Carol Danvers best use was to be attacked by Rogue she could steal her superpowers. Otherwise she was never well written and always came off as a useless Superman knock off.
@@ChipmunkRapidsMadMan1869 look I agree superman is OP and boring, but at LEAST he had one weakness. OK that weakness by definition gets over-used and cliché and trite, but at least it is there in concept. But he has other weaknesses too: magic, red suns. So that's SOMETHING to work with creatively and narratively. It's also the case he chose a weak nerd as his "human face" and again, that gives some narrative tension. So as boring as Superman is, he's infinitely less boring than Karen Danvers.
Well miles did well because they called him spider man and they fleshed him out... ms.marvel is off of a character people didn't like. But I bet they wish she was miles
@@superjlk_9538 Yes I know that. Before any of the movies, the most popular Marvel character was Spider-Man and characters like Ironman were barely heard of. But when the first Ironman movie released, it was a somewhat financial success. Why can’t they recreate the success of the first Ironman with Ms. Marvel?
So I'm gonna say this right away: It is not a good show so far lol. Yeah, it's boring and definitely designed to pander to a minority demographic, although all things considered I would argue they were shooting more for modern young American and European Muslims who might play a little fast and loose with many of the doctrines of Islam. To put it succinctly, the target audience would be those younger "Muslim-in-name-only" type individuals who may have been born into a Muslim family and/or raised in the mosque as it were, while they themselves are likely not currently practicing. Trust me, there's plenty of shit throughout the first three episodes that would raise a number of eyebrows in any fundamentally and/or majority Islamic nation, and more than a few depicted instances/situations that would simply would *not* fly in such countries due to being far too culturally taboo or even downright friggin' blasphemous in some examples. Now in defense and to the credit of the writers/producers, frankly they DID actually pretty much nail a mostly tasteful and accurate depiction of a modern, somewhat liberal, second generation (I think) Pakistani Muslim family living in the current United States. Many cultural aspects specific to that sociocultural and religious demographic are mentioned or discussed and otherwise handled quite tactfully and respectfully if I'm being honest, save for maybe a couple specific instances. You really gotta give them credit for going as far as they did, so the accusations made here about their not knowing the audience or subject matter seem a bit baseless and ignorant in my opinion. I mean I feel it's pretty safe to assume that none of you have actually watched any of it and you're making claims based purely on secondhand information and bits you've gathered from media articles and such. That's fine, I get it. I wouldn't want to give Disney one red cent either nor waste near three hours to catch up with the initial released episodes. Unfortunately for me I have too much free time, and I'd sooner choke down a tablespoon of arsenic suspended in elemental mercury before I actually paid to watch the series lol. So I've been keeping up with it thus far and like I said, overall it really is not great. However ultimately I feel I'm just not the right target demographic for it to be honest... It's definitely intended to appeal to those as I've described above, not to mention those who are a bit younger than me as well. I think the more appropriate age range is intended to be teens and young adults, so like 13/14 to early 20-somethings; at least that's the impression I've gotten thus far... Yeah man I really don't think they had any real, GENUINE aspirations to release in the predominantly Muslim nations of the Middle East and expect a hit sensation. I mean maybe in the more liberal countries like Turkey, Algeria, and maybe some regions of Pakistan but even so it would be pretty intensely edited and censored. I think the goal was to appeal to moderate immigrant Muslim demographics living in North America and parts of Europe and perhaps garner new viewership in brown minority audiences residing in the modern westernized world. Fundamentalist Islamic cultures are simply so different and in many ways directly diametrically opposed to modern western values that it would be virtually impossible for the current entertainment media establishment to produce something that might appeal to such a demographic or not otherwise offend them in some manner. Frankly I find it difficult to believe that any amount of clever editing could make the 'Ms. Marvel' series totally "safe" for fundamentalist audiences or even appeal to them. They simply do not value the same moral/ethical, philosophical, and tangibly physical things that we do. Not to mention the fact that the censorship agencies within such Islamic governments are likely to consider any media from the west - particularly from the United States - to be automatically suspect and otherwise subversive and/or damaging to some aspect of Islam and the moral sensibilities of the populace. It's just not a realistic concept really, and I doubt that the marketing bean counters and producers employed by the largest entertainment media company on the planet are so completely out of touch and/or up their own ass that they would honestly believe that they could release in these fundamentalist nations to any truly noteworthy positive outcome; especially not without performing any major specific audience testing and doing some extremely in-depth and detailed sociocultural research. Idk, I'd just recommend actually watching the show before saying all this kind of stuff, ya know? I mean I don't give a damn, but what does chap my ass a bit is that situations such as this only serve to discredit our side and make us out to be ignorant and/or purely contrarian, or worst of all just a bunch of "whiny" and "*toxic*" fans. Like you, I too wish to recover pop culture from the grimy claws of agenda driven corporate creed, sociopolitical pandering, and unchecked wokeism in order to restore some semblance of relatable character driven plot and good storytelling. Believe me I'm right there with ya in the fuckin' trenches, and I will remain until the fight is won and all is right with modern myth and entertainment once more! The problem is however that this fight becomes more difficult to win when my comrades in arms go ahead and hand over our arms and ammunition over to the enemy by discrediting themselves out of the gate. To keep with the metaohor, one could even argue that individuals and content creators such as yourselves are sort of figureheads within our ranks, lieutenants, colonels, and generals if you will. If our officers start winning the war for the enemy, what are the mere grunts like me supposed to do? Lol. How sad it is too that such losses are merely the result of laziness or lack of vision... Perhaps it's due to a more principled cause, and while I can respect the resolve to remain steadfast in one's beliefs, I'd suggest that one stop for a moment to ask "at what cost is this principled course being taken?" (...if you get what I mean. Hopefully this makes some sense). That's all I'm saiyan my man.
It seems to me to be incredibly irresponsible of dear old grandma to give what amounts to a super weapon to an emotional prepubescent child. But I guess its fine because women have no flaws and can do no wrong.
If they wanted to fix Captain Marvel, pair her with (well and introduce) Silver Surfer for a movie. He is calm philosophical, but also powerful. He is too peaceful when he should fight and she is not. They would be perfect to help each other grow. Galactus could be the cosmic threat that she can't just force her way through.
I'm kind of getting to the point where I'm wondering if Disney has lost the ability to make a show that appeals to 51% of anybody. You would expect this kind of output from people whose focus groups consisted entirely of their own friends circle.
I would love to get more insight on the production meetings for the Disney content. Apparently Disney has some pretty tough NDAs and you'd expect them to, but it is odd to me that for all the flubs I think the only kind of "inside" insight or criticism we've had is Temuera Morrison voicing some thoughts on how Book of Boba Fett was written, and the leaked Colin Treverrow rejected/unused script for Episode IX.
I watched it out of boredom. It was surprisingly good. Maybe because I had just been disappointed by Obi Wan. Maybe because I've got so many Indian friends so the culture was familiar. Either way, this show has decent acting and it was enjoyable to watch while I played video games.
Man props to all of you. It’s incredible that men sitting in front of a camera and talking are more interesting than million dollar budget. How well do you think these men would do with that kind of money?
If you would’ve told me 10 years ago that someone was making a Ms. Marvel show I’d have been stoked. A hot blonde in a black leotard with a lightning bolt on it with a red sash tied around her hips? Sign me up! Heck I would’ve even suggested the same actress who should’ve gotten the Captain Marvel gig: Yvonne Strahovsky.
I know what you mean.. I found some old comics from the 80s in the attic a few weeks ago and stumbled across the original Ms. Marvel. They don't make 'em like that anymore. I'd forgotten that women in comics used to be attractive.
I thought it was kind of Ironic that this show was made to represent Islamic culture and has so much haram (bad things that aren't permitted in Islam) as Disparu pointed out drinking alcohol, especially a woman would be outrageous and the fact the origin of her powers turns out to be the gin which were basically demons rooted in pre Islamic Indian folklore, for people that don't know, Pakistan was an artificially created country broken off from India in the 1950s referred to in the show as the separation which was designed to relocate all the Muslim Indian converts to one country rather than being spread out throughout India. Both countries really don't get along. The only Pakistani Muslims that would tolerate a show idolizing pre-Islamic Indian folklore like this would be lapsed Muslims that would literally watch anything and defeats the entire purpose of the show. It is pure virtue signaling garbage.
Finally a man of knowledge but the thing on djinn my dude there are good ans bad djinn The bad ones just follow shaytan and the good ones are just muslims Also yeah the fact that there is so much haram just makes me wish they should not make muslim characters cause they do not know how to write them
Jins are not "pre-Islamic indian folklore", they're mentioned in the Quran and Hadith. They're found throughout Islamic teachings about the world and God's creations. Speaking of 'artificially created country', all countries are 'artificially created' in the sense that humans divided the world into arbitrary legal entities. Extending your statement, india itself is an artificially created republic that lumps together several nations(states) with different languages, socio cultural norms, art, music, food etc.
I remember seeing a post advertising it on Facebook all the top commenters were saying “keep rewatching it so we can fight those haters and review bombers, we got to bring the numbers up!”
