In the echo comics she has the ability to mimic everyone elses fighting style. In the tv show everyone else has the ability to mimic her lack of ability to make her look good.
@@WarpChaos yes she was essentially a street level copy of taskmaster but the writers- im not making this up btw- literally said that they thought it was lame so they got rid of that ability for the show. Hilariously they forgor (💀) to give her another ability in return
This fight scene is the perfect representation of the modern strong female character trope; the man must hold back so the woman can look better. So strong, so brave.
You know, I’m still waiting for the day we get a man versus woman fight where the man doesn’t hold back, and the woman takes the hit, but you see the bruises. If you want a film that’s shows women can go against men, you have to at least show that they can take the pain as well, as men do.
Yeah, he is clearly in such a good shape like that part where he jumps over that iron fence in 2 seconds and then you look at her and her moves..... so pathetic.
@osmanyousif7849 the closest I can think of is one Drinker himself brought up in one video. Emily Blunts character in the 2015 film Sicario. She punches a military dude full on in the face and he's barely fazed and then promptly drops her in like 2 seconds
Idk where echo ranks in the street tier of marvel, but I’m sure daredevil would kick her ass. Like yeah she’d probly give him a decent fight but daredevil would win 7/10. No one can say for sure unless they are knowledgeable on powerscaling lol. This fight scene looks bad tho, super fake
You know, he could have said "no." It's not like the quality of this show is a mystery. Blame him for taking the job instead of feeling sorry for his own decision.
>constant complaints about "Magic American Indians" in fiction >gives her Magic American Indian powers What's next, she gonna shout INUKCHUK and grow really tall?
The showrunner's changed Echo's powers because they were "lame." Yes, the ability to change your fighting style on the fly is total crap compared to the done a million time before "call on the power of the wolf and my ancestors" trope. Also, Echo was originally a member of the Blackfoot tribe but they didn't like their aesthetic. They called an entire tribe's visual style ugly. And they're supposed to be the good guys.
I think it was more to do with being able to find a native American actress who's also an elite level martial artist wasnt feasible so they just switched her powers
@@zomb1elvis Stunt doubles? Anyway, I'd think finding a young martial artist Native woman wouldn't be any harder than finding a young deaf Native woman, lol. Also, the director/showrunner did use the word "lame" in describing her comic powers, there's no getting around that. Said showrunner also explained the new powers were chosen specifically to link it to her Native background (which as OP says has been done to death).
@@josepetersen7112 So apparently instead she is Choctaw, likely for the Trail of Tears pathos. Which should also bring up the history of slavery within NA tribes, but you know that wont happen.
I'm an amputee and my leg has come off doing a kick. I spent half an hour kicking a clothes line out of a concrete slab and about ten minutes of that time was spent hopping across the yard to retrieve my leg and put it back on. By the time I'd calmed down the clothes line was destroyed and my prosthetic was bent in half. Good times. Edit: One of the things that they get wrong with Echo kicking is shes landing her kick with the foot. Prothetic feet are covered in rubber so that wouldn't really do much harm. The part where the foot connects is a block of aluminium and steel. That is the part that does damage. So her kicks should be aimed to connect a few inches above the ankle.
0:57 He clean smacked her leg with his sticks which he has certifiably broken bones with in seasons passed- he would have instantly became aware she had a prosthetic when it didn't instantly break. At that point he would have DOUBTLESSLY exploited that weakness and perhaps indeed ripped it off or tried to disable it if the writers and choreographers weren't hacks.
This daredevil looks kinda weaker then netflix daredevil lol, and Netflix version was too realistic.. cuz in the comics he can hurt guys like Spider-Man lol, can’t beat ‘em but can definitely hurt em.
I dont wanna be rude, but how does she generate power in that spin kick? If the prostetic goes to what it was the knee, im no doctor, but i dont believe she can put any power in that kick... Same with the other leg, how can she generate power if she can plant and twist her leg from the bottom up? I dont know if they know but even with shoes the toes help to generate power. Next level we will have a guy in a wheel chair doing brazilian kicks
@@DrMundo92additionally, how is a deaf person supposed to time a block or a counter? There is a reason why professional fighters often train with a blindfold and never with earbuds lmao
The very first rule of any serious martial arts is NEVER leave yourself open to your opponent. I immediately lost count of how many times Echo flailed her arms out to her sides like she was trying to fly.
It's the super slow spin kick she does in the middle and Daredevil just standing there watching her do it that gets me. How could anyone possibly say it looks even a little bit good with that slow-ass spin and he doesn't just beat her ass right there?
If i was a director on that scene i would have just call cut because that moment made the whole one take a failed take so why wasting time and not restart? As editor i would suggest jump cuts when i see the whole take doesn't work, countless people of this production saw the scene and said: wow, cool shot. That's incompetence.
My favourite part of the Echo teasers was when John Redcorn showed up, and channeled the spirit of Wematanye to summon a flock of snipe, and save the day.
if i had not LITERALLY watched that episode 2 days ago on HULU i would not understand this great comment. So much better than anything i have seen in years now.
I think what you're seeing in that fake interview show for Echo is simply this; all of the people in that "interview" are close friends of the "writers" (read: activists). That's their inner circle, their small 'Echo" chamber...if you will. That is the bizarro world, circus talent social circle of the people creating the show.
Fun Fact, in the MCU, ECHO was trained by the village elder, High Chieftess Warren, known by her tribal name - Lying Bull, master of the ancient martial art of Bulshido
Fun fact: the fight scene was originally written as Daredevil taking psylocibin and quaaludes, then slowly lunging at all the imaginary white rabbits running across his visual cortex. The actress who played Echo randomly jumped in, and Sydney Freeland was filming the whole time ...
There was a filmation cartoon from the late 80’s called Braveheart. It was a space western ala Firefly and its main character, Sheriff Braveheart, was Native American but the show didn’t announce it nor did it make it his one character trait. He had a special talisman which doubled as his badge that tapped into spirit world of animals and gave him the ability to channel the power of any animal he calls out (strength of the bear, speed of the puma, etc). It was basically Echo done better.
I remember the insane prequel fighting choreographies. Prequel goofiness aside, I always loved them just because how much effort the actors poured into them.
@trime1015 idiots like you who give half ass back handed remarks to the prequels, which are the most cohesive, passionate films that Lucas ever made because your ilk keep regurgitating lies and misinformation about them.
I said I actually really like the prequels, but they have some goofy parts, I don't know what he read into that or how that's wrong ^^' @@spacecore6000
Her name is ECHO and her ability is to MIMIC everyone's fighting style... She Echoes her opponents fighting style. and they took that ability away from her!?!?!?!?
According to the writers that ability was "lame", which shows that they don't have a creative ounce in their bodies because the ability copy comes with the ability to predict your opponents actions and reactions, it's how Taskmaster and Echo herself are capable of keeping up with super-powered individuals in the comics, by setting traps and being very sneaky.
If this got cleared to be included in the actual series, then how terrible was Daredevil Born Again that they scrapped the filmed footage and going back to the drawing board?!?!?!
As a martial artist & lifelong fan of Kung Fu films, fight choreography is important to me in tv & films. And this was… just like the Hayden Christianson-Rosario Dawson fight… 🤢
Quick side note, some artificial legs are held on with a locking pin system. Dare Devil could have theoretically pressed the release button and have her prosthetic leg pop off lol
Talking about how her prosthetic leg and deafness don't affect her in combat reminds me of the deaf General from the Dragon Prince (which I generally liked for the first few seasons, but haven't come back to since). Like, how does someone who is deaf get far in the army, nevermind being the commander of the whole Kingdom's forces? It seems like, while she is deaf in all the normal scenes, when fighting breaks out, she is not at any disadvantage at all. Oftentimes it made me think: "Then why make her deaf in the first place?!" Seems like more of the same here...
Yo I never thought I'd seen another person who's seen the show! Thought the first few seasons were building up great and season 3 was some of my favorite television ever, but seasons 4+ sucked major ass. I agree, it did seem weird but at least in that universe I feel I could suspend my disbelief a little more, especially cuz everything else around it held up. Like, why doesn't anyone just sneak up behind her and yeet her with a sword lmao.
I believe that character was mute not deaf. Your logic still wins out however. The three principles of combat are, shoot, move, *communicate*. She can not effectively communicate and thusly would be a detriment to her own side.
@@thomascraiker6449 She is absolutely note mute. She yells at someone in season 5. I wouldn't be surprised if someone told me there's some scene I've forgotten where she seems to respond to a sound, but I'm pretty sure she's intended to be deaf.
Watching this scene made me want to lose my privilege as a sighted person, I envy the non-sighted privileged community for not being able to witness this atrocity.
They do, and screen readers are also a thing that almost every phone and computer have these days. But anyway, shows like this one do make being blind a little more bearable, lol.
In Hawkeye, Mayas prosthetic leg was completely covered in every scene she was in and had no bearing on the story. The little girl who played young Maya is flashbacks has both her legs, but her scenes were the only ones where she was every barefoot, so her scenes are the ones were the camera keeps zooming in on her fake foot that doesn't need to be there. They faked a disability on one actress because another actress happens to have a prosthetic that you never see.
It's so clear that Daredevil can wipe the floor with Echo's face, it's ridiculous, you can see that even Charlie Cox can beat that actress if he really tried.
I think there are three distinctive possibilities here. 1. They were asked to dress flamboyantly by their agents. 2. They were dressed by the prop department or wardrobe department. 3. These clothes were the best they could find at the op shop or thrift store. Possibly all three of the above as some wardrobe departments do raid thrift stores for old clothes.
It's cosplay, one is Matt Murdoch with the red glasses, one is Scarlet Witch (red cape). But yes, it all matches because the wardrobe department dressed them.
@@EvilDoresh to answer the question seriously I'm guessing they were told to dress them in casual cosplay that looks like they used whatever clothes they could find. Then they got their civilian lawyer Daredevil outfit and based the rest around that style, with the trenchcoat and red glasses.
Fullmetal Alchemist is a good example of a character with substitute limbs. They regularly come into play throughout the series, between augmenting it into a weapon, playing off of it being heavier or lighter, issues with material and weather conditions, getting continually broken from use rendering him vulnerable. These are all good options that could be done with her leg but they're simply not creative writers.
Echo is a non-meta powered, 5'8" human female who is deaf and has one leg .... and she is supposed to be a physical ass-kicker on par with Daredevil (and by association I guess ... Iron fist, electra, Kingpin, frank castle ... who else?). Is that really beyond the pale in a world with a blind lawyer who has mysterious super powers? For me.... yes. Yes it is way beyond the pale. The entire concept of this character is a bad joke.
They could have made her other leg out of vibranium or something, then she'd have an interested attribute and a leg-up in combat, but I already know they didn't think of that.
And the actress looks out of shape, just to complete the joke. But if she is channeling some kind of native american spiritual power, it means the character is magical, so that "justify" the silliness a little bit. I know comics are childish in nature, they are not supposed to be "realistic", blablabla but really, there has to be some doses of contextualization, how can you take a character like Batman seriously if he looks completely out of shape? But here we are, skinny Pattinson's Batman, that Nun in the Watchmen series, this Echo character, etc.. comics are already dumb in it's natural state, but these kind of depictions only make the media looks even more ridiculous
These are Modern Audiences. I always wanted Hollywood to post official pictures of Modern Audiences online so that we could know what they are when they are not being empty theater seats, and now Hollywood has obliged.
I kinda miss the days of Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, when Lisbeth gets knocked around in any fair fight with a man, but gets her own back with a nine iron to the back of the head. After every time she gets kicked in the mouth, she just cracks her neck and says "Try it again". Like, yeah it was brutal, but you saw the exact point where she would have the situation handled, lose control, wrestle herself back into an advantage, and come out of it bruised and battered, but victorious. And moreover, it was done sparingly. She wasn't constantly getting physical, so we see her getting smacked up an we feel it. Then she has to get out of it and we feel the stakes.
As much an afterthought as it was, that story at the end about the girls doing something new and exciting and fun and only caring about how they could put it on social media.... that hit home. When people start framing their lives around stuff like that, it is legitimately scary.
i keep wanting to make a live reacts video where i go take a dump. but i think people would completely misunderstand the contempt and vitriol intended by doing so, and then i am that guy with the huge hilarious viral poop video and get the credit for starting the poop challenge video which is the top viral meme of 2024. and i have added to the problem.
Thats what happens when kids grow up with social media. Everyones else who posts thigs seems like they have more interesting lives and get more attention from others even if its just likes and ot real attention. And so kids are being trained to feel bad if they dont seek attention from the infinite void. Rather than just having fun with people whos company they enjoy. My neighbour has a daughter, how is 13/14, and they were over on boxing day and she was showing what one of the other kids in her class got for chistmas, because this girl posted it on her social media. The pile of presents filled the entire bloody room, it was ridiculous. New ipad,iphome, laptop, makeup, clothes on and on just an insane amount of presents. All ofthem completely impersonal and superficial as well. But kids wont recognise that. They dont see that a personal present from somone that shows they know you and care is better than thousands of pounds of just stuff off amazon. Theres so many issues kids are going to have developed growing up now with this social media influencing the way their thinking patterns are developing
@@newwavepopWorse yet, you get that Tik Tok thing where there are nested poop videos and somehow they're synchronized. The Wellerman becomes the Smellerman.
This reminds me of some bizarre stuff I've read about in New York. Random eateries and bakeries would get exposure on TikTok, and suddenly they have to deal with a people willing to wait in line for _hours_ , or book a table at least a month in advance, just for the honor of being able to make a selfie proving they've been there.
It's sad what they did with the Winter Soldier. Really sad. Started off really well in the second Captain America film (the spy thriller plot of which made almost no sense at all when you think about it). And they did nothing with it after that.
Answer to Reaper: Matt has radar sense, he can 'see' physical objects and movement, as well as hear things like heart rate and so on. So if she sees something and tenses up, he can tell that instantly by hearing her heartbeat change. In the comics he is actually so good at this he can identify individuals by the sound of their heartbeat.
I don't think Disney wants to say that despite being deaf and only having one leg that she's just as good a fighter as everyone else. I think they're going to say that being deaf makes her better than people who can hear, and being able to hear is the disadvantage. I do not agree with this, I'm just saying what I think some people believe.
@@clogs4956 I read that short story in middle school, and it's basically predicting the future. All that's left is a requirement for everyone to wear masks that make them blind and deaf.
Couple of thoughts: 1, I can imagine the scene from the Incredibles where Mr. Incredible is watching a video of how many of his friends the Omnidroid has killed. Except the heroes are Marvel characters and the droids are the screenwriters/directors. 2, The "fans" look like they were pulled straight from a Comic Con where they couldn't make proper costumes so they cosplayed as obscure indie characters with stuff they had in their closet.
Good point on having her prosthetic leg actually play into that fight scene. We used to have a saying when creating characters, back in the days of table top RPG games: "You don't get points for a limitation that isn't limiting." Daredevil should have known in the first few seconds of that fight that she had a prosthetic leg and used it to defeat her ... easily. He's done more with more capable fighters.
What I find very sad is that at some point, there will be no one left alive that even remembers what good storytelling even is. This new methodology, that places message above basic narrative strengths, will be the "norm" and will be completely accepted. Thank heavens I'm old enough to remember, and that a few folks like Drinker keep the ideas alive. We need to appreciate them.
They *are* using a stunt double for her, aren't they? It's why they're fighting in front of the backlit window. It's also the reason for the jump cut you call out so they can get the real actress back in for the close ups
She didn't gain that much. *orchestra music with layered vocals* Right before you close your eyes, the only thing that's on your mind. You're dreaming that she feels it, too - YOU WONDER WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE LOVED BY HER! YEEEAAAAHHH!
I'm sure I've seen a PR promo where someone states, "This show isn't about just checking boxes", then continues talking about the boxes that have been checked 😂😂😂
1:58 "...where you have one person who's clearly way better and way faster than the other person, and they have to hold back and slow down so much..." That is one thing that has bugged me for years. First noticed it in a version of _The Man in the Iron Mask,_ where Patrick McGoohan had to pretend that Richard Chamberlain could use a sword. It was weird-looking in 1977, but has become so painfully common since....
7:20-8:00 My grandfather lost his leg above knee at the age of 9 because of a knife wound (improper aftercare following a surgery) and as adult he not only took care of family farm with horses and later tractors, but also made side business as a taxi driver. My father told me that when he and his sisters were kids they used to race the distance from sauna back to house after bathing (about 120m, saunas used to be separate buildings in countryside) and grandpa, jumping with his only leg, would always win. And he was just a regular dude. So yeah, I'd say they certainly should have been able to make something out of a disability with a super hero.
The fight scene isn't like the tLJ throne room, or the Rosario Dawson/Hayden Christensen lightsaber duel, it's the scenes from the Obi Wan Kenobi show, where the three kidnappers are chasing Leia.
Why was Echo missing a leg???!!!! She never had a missing leg in the comicbook! Echo actually took up the Ronin mantle after Hawkeye gave it up and let her have it!!!
@@user-xx6vy9ri8p That’s so dumb! Talk about diversity hiring! Leave it up to Disney have the established character fit the actor/actress instead of how it should be the other way around. What next? If Disney were going to make an Othello movie, the main actor would be wheelchair bound, Indian, and mute! Talk about a F U to fans. The comicbook version, the REAL version, was a deaf young Latin woman in her late teens early 20s who was extremely athletic and thin with the innate ability to copy anyone’s moves and fighting techniques by observation. What we got looks and acts nothing like the original version!
In the Defenders' series he beat the crap out of as many men who could move and go toe-to-toe with the indestructible Luke Cage, the Immortal Iron Fist and the immortal Electra and took massive crap from Kingpin himself so a one-legged deaf person who isn't Asgardian is just two minutes from a monster ER visit followed by days in major facial reconstruction surgery
0:58 I keep wondering what happened with that leg in the air, did she pause for dramatic effect or were there some of those stunt strings tangled around her and she was trying to shake it off 😂
Yay, Echo. Reshot, re tinkered and retrofitted, and also the whole character changed. 3 years too late. What could go wrong guys!? And remember in the fight scene, she is fighting a blind guy!
Not only does she look so much slower, she looks real out of shape for this kind of part. Why did they think this was a good idea besides the usual virtue signaling?
It shows a complete lack of regard from even the lead actress who is getting a break here. An A lister like Chris Evans gets in shape for rubbish like Thor L & T, but this unknown can't even be bothered to lay off the pies to play an action role for Disney +? If even the lead doesn't give a crap, why should we?
Echo was an experience for me when I got introduced to her in the comics. She was a bad ass Ninja who you didn’t know was a women or deaf. And when you found out, it actually added more to her badass.
@@user-yq9im9dk9z Ok…haha Well I remember it clearly when I was reading The New Avengers when it came out almost 20 years ago when this ninja who only listened to Captain America came into the scene. Secret Invasion was a very well done story but unfortunately we gotta deal with folks like you who only see the television show…so here we are, you calling me a liar for my personal experience with this character…sure buddy
I love the chemistry you blokes all have with each other, and poor Gundam. I could feel his spirits sink as he heard about Echo's new power set. 😀 Seems to be the trend in media. "Oh, a character with American tribal ancestry? Better give 'em animal powers and/or ancestor-fueled magic. That'll work." So Prey has you communing with ancestors to enter the spirit realm and control an ethereal eagle. Assassin's Creed 3 has three DLC campaigns where you gain the power of your ancestors and use magical totem animal abilities. So on, so forth. Now this. Oi. Makes me glad I'm an Anglo-German Yankee. Every character roughly analogous to my mutt-mix isn't portrayed as pulling magical swords out of stones while slinging around mystical pretzel-rangs. "Yeehaw and huzzah, mein friends." Edit addition: oh, in case I seem totally random... ItsaGundam has Native American ancestry. Like, actual ancestry. Not "Ancestry . com tells me I'm 1/1024th Cherokee" Elizabeth Warren ancestry. I doubt he found Echo's new power set too amusing, haha.
I’m going to write a comic now about Johan Smith-Adams who becomes a super hero when the lady of the lake (Michigan) throws a sword at him and his battle cry is “yeehaw and huzzah, mein friends.” It’ll be brilliant.
Yeah, it's a whole TV Trope- Magical Native American in general, and Captain Ethnic for specifically superheroes, lol. In fact, Echo used to be held up as a positive example of a Native superhero whose powers had nothing to do with her ancestry. It's hilarious that they hired a Native showrunner to make her more "authentic", and yet she became more stereotypical! Also, it's not just the Native Americans, it's been noted that the MCU's been doing the ancestral power thing with a number of non-white/black superheroes- Namor, Shang Chi, and Ms Marvel.
I don't know how you film a fight scene that looks THIS bad. This is Halfassed Highschool Project levels of terrible. I'm not convinced they aren't trying to be terrible at this point.
When you are trying to describe a character and her powers and literally just listed them and that causes everyone to laugh harder than the actual jokes they were making? Priceless
One thing I'm confused that none of the guys picked up on is that the "fans" were in low budget costumes. The glaringly obvious two was one dressed as Matt Murdoch with the red glasses and the one with the red cape as Scarlet Witch. They all match the same style which means they didn't even do it themselves, the costume department dressed them.
I get the impression DD’s not fighting Echo so much as gauging her capabilities as a combatant. In other words, sizing her up before closing in for the kill.
