Dual Clutch vs Manual Transmission (DCT vs MT) BMW M4 & M3 

Elliott Rollins This is my favorite comment hands-down. Thanks, Elliot!

+Elliott Rollins hell yeah but AWD* im a quattro guy ;)

+Elliott Rollins hell yeah but AWD* im a quattro guy ;)

+Elliott Rollins hell yeah but AWD* im a quattro guy ;)

Right, 12h time and fahrenheit degrees are for pussies.

+Apple Aya couldn't agree more!

+Apple Aya do they make a facetooth kit for the manual, that should remove some of the advantage of the dual clutch

Actually, track times would be better with a manual. If you got rid of all the little bells and whistles that limit you on a dct, and made it where it's essentially a manual without the need to operate the clutch, and it shifted instantly and smoothly, than yes it would have better track times, and equally as good, if not better handling capabilities.

That's a very well written comment. I like your take and explanation on this.

+Apple Aya how does "literally" make sense in that sentence

@gear head actually its TDC

@@falunyip bro DUAL CLUTCH TRANSMISSION DUAL CLUTCH TRANSMISSION

@@thedurangeddrifter3634 bro TOP DEAD CENTER TOP DEAD CENTER LMAO

@@falunyip bruh

Why not have a dual clutch and add a fake clutch pedal and manual stick and programmed into the computer to simulate manual ... I mean it could simulate it perfectly ... and if the next buyer wants automatic have the pedal and shifter removable and computer switched to auto ... Do not think for a second this won't work or is unachievable .... and remind you every minute you drive how childish it is to wish to switch the gears yourself lol

Bruno Danese My Salute to you sir

Bruno Danese I dunno, I hear your point, but for a daily I would think the manual is a lot more enjoyable!

I see what you mean. But the manual as a daily car can get tiring, especially if you face heavy traffic every day. There is absolutely zero traffic where I live, so I would definitely go for the manual.

JackalCars I made the mistake of going manual in los angeles, yes its extremely fun like 3 days out of the month... but grinding between 1st and 2nd the other 28 days of the month... so annoying, trading mines in next year for the DCT.

+Hector Espinoza I honestly don't see the problem, is the clutch that heavy or something?

Should have got a M3 it's better looking

RAJohnson713 ur hi as fuk

+Willy A Congratulations on the new M4 manual! It looks like an incredible car

+RAJohnson713 the M3 looks exactly the same as the M4, only 2 doors more.

maxpowers3732 Thanks man. I really appreciate that. It's an incredible drive.

+Brian Tolliver (HiCapMag) youre fuckin A!! best comment yet

You must have owned a couple of Hondas then?!?...

Someone is bad ass with clutch control and you say they must own a Honda... wow.

+Brian Tolliver (HiCapMag) - The computer will kick your left foots ass....everytime.

Possible

How’s the car treating you?

Tuddec True statement

Tuddec hehehe I see what you did there

If not I'd get the DCT because it's quicker and manufacturers are now investing more in DCTs because it's what most people choose so it's probably better.

+Tuddec Most people buy a Cayenne or Macan instead of a 911/Cayman/Boxster so if I want to enjoy driving a Porsche are the SUVs better sports cars? The manual makes driving the car much more enjoyable. Who cares about fractional second differences?

Top Gear reference.

XtrAMassivE I didn't even realise that the manual transmission was available on the M4 :D

VinceYT2408 they come standard with them. You've to pay around 1.5k for Dual Clutch

Naveen S 3000...

+VinceYT2408 same

+VinceYT2408 You won't find a BMW model type, especialy an M, NEVER, without a manual transmission.

Charles Austin Best comment

Hahahah

Nick Murray thats why we love you nick :D

Charles Austin The difference between buying a car with your own money vs your fathers'. ;)

felix pinto "nobody wanted them" more like nobody could get them, because they were both rare and expensive af.

felix pinto M cars are really enthusiast cars. as they age and get to the 2nd and 3rd owners manuals will carry a premium as buyers will want the manual for the fun factor and the cheaper upkeep. I know the E46 is slanted due to the SMG being a ticking timebomb but you can see two equal cars priced $3000 - $5000 apart based on one being a stick and the other being a SMG

+felix pinto that's why a Manual F430 is 10K more expensive compare with the F430 F1

I think it will do the opposite, on the used market why would you buy the manual, alot of the buyers of there cars are 50+ and don't care for manual anymore and the dct is naturally faster.

+matthew von in new zealand you can buy a used auto jzx90 for 7-8k, and a manual one for 12-13k. You can buy a r34 gtt auto for 8-9k, manual 12-14k. I could go on and on, manual is in much higher demand.

+Anthony Dlugos Tui is a cute dog, plus we wanted to make a great video! Thanks man!

***** Manuals are so easy to drive nowadays... nice, smooth hydraulic clutches, very light clutch pedals, automatic rev-matching, excellent synchros... why do people get DCT lmao

+Daniel Mirzotti I think the dealers push them because they charge more and make more profit for the option. Plus they're idiot proof and people who care more about bragging about generating numbers on a spreadsheet can talk about the faster shifts. As Nick says here I'd think most people buy sports cars for driving enjoyment, not to generate numbers.

maxpowers3732 Without a doubt they push them. More commission money for them because the car's MSRP jumps up, easier to order/deliver to the customer (manuals have a much longer waiting time), and also these DCT's will cost more to service than a manual, so more money for the service department. And then of course the demographic of ///M car buyers has changed. It used to be about people who liked an engine they can work on and a clutch pedal they can use. Now ///M cars are made in higher volumes and are much easier to drive, so you'll get both car guys and non car guys buying them. For example, the 997 GT3 Porsche was a car for car guys. 6-speed manual and not too many electronic nannies. The new 991 GT3 has a PDK so you have people like clueless housewives driving it because it has an automatic drive mode.

***** It's a faster transmission, but that doesn't mean you're a faster driver. A fast driver is a mentality and skillset, a fast driver ISN'T having a dual clutch transmission or for example 1000hp. A fast driver knows how to apex around a corner, knows how much steering input to give, knows how to modulate his gas and brake (and left foot brake), knows how to prevent understeer and manage oversteer... THIS is a fast driver. If you give a novice an M3/M4 with DCT, it will not make him a faster driver. He just happens to be piloting a fast car. A decent driver with track/autocross experience in a manual M3/M4 will beat an average Joe in a DCT M3/M4. Not to mention, most of the owners that drive these cars don't track them regularly, so the whole "it's faster" argument can fly out the window. In the real world a manual vs. DCT M3/M4 are equally as fast because you're both gonna end up side by side at the next red traffic light, the next construction zone, the next rush hour freeway... completely useless in the real world.

Daniel Mirzotti DCT car will win at the lights.

As much as i dont agree and am baffled that you went from such an amazing manual car with an amazing chassis to a DCT M car, i can respect your choice. It is cool seeing how quick and seamless the shifts are. I cant say i think its even close to being as fun, but its cool and fast.

@@javidgt8 Dude manuals profoundly suck in slow traffic and when your eating or holding your girlfriends hand .. All things that bugged me on my BMW and swore Id never buy a manual again

bingo, though they only get complex with dct a torque converter driven gearbox is fairly simple, I'd argue even more so than a older manual gear box. often times though they do know better and try to rip you off. last time I ever brought my car into a shop, it had a bad shift solinoid, they were going to charge me $2.5k for a rebuild for a $12.50 part, it does require you to drop the tranny and open it up to get to the solenoid but last time I checked opening it up and replacing a single sensor doesn't constitute a rebuild. at this point point was already set in my mind I was going to do it myself, but I felt the need to prod the mech. for trying to pull one over on me, so I asked since your doing a rebuild do I have any warranty on the new parts and rebuild, such as the torque converter, he said no because they aren't going to be replaced, so I asked how can you call it a rebuild if you are rebuilding or changing anything, now your flat out telling me I'm paying over 2k and my torque converter could go a week later and it'll cost me another 2k? AL WAYS do your own research if I didn't prior to going to the shop I might have spent 2k on the replacement of a $12 part.

+niceguy60 Good automatic transmissions (toyota...) will outlive the car itself...

+sdfajbdakisjdgh very true. If it's built well (not a lemon) than taking good care will extend the life of anything exponentially

+niceguy60 In the near future, you wont have a choice. If you dislike automatic transmissions now, wait till you get your hands on a CVT.

+niceguy60 Oh and think of the MT as the boss you've always wanted. Then the CVT comes in and he's like "you and I are going to be enemies for the rest of your life". CVT: You want control of your cars engine? You want sportiness? I think not!!!!

subaruwrxfan Yes there is no wrong choice as you say Matt

+Nick Murray very nice comparison! Now I need to drive the MT on the M4! But shouldn't you already know these little arrows next to the gear number? My DCT M4 also shows me which gear I should choose.

subaruwrxfan Thanks! I'm a fan of your channel. Getting squirrely!

Yeah...the transmission is not the problem...it's the over rated car that comes with it !!!! FORZA ALFA BABY !!! ALFA ROMEO GIULIA QUADRIFOGLIO ALL DAY LONG AND TWICE ON SUNDAY OVER THESE GERMAN *HITBOXWS !!!

Deadass id take a Giulia any day over the basic mainstream german cars

Computer vs chalk n board Latest smart phone vs cup n string 😂😂😂

Fleshlight vs palm

@@DR-ld4jn The best comparison yet. :D Ha ha

mastr...n vs real sex

Charcoal bbq vs gas bbq

+John Crusader shutup nerd

+Eduardo Segovia but there's keyboard warriors who try to make themselves sound like a man because they drive stick lol

+Eduardo Segovia if you're deep into cars you'd appreciate whatever other enthusiasts choose to drive

+Alexander D meh, not really. i really enjoy straight cut manual sequentials, but outside of motorbikes and indycars they don't really exist. that said i'd never get an auto or a dct or any kind of robotic sequentials

+Alexander D Exactly.. Thank you!

Same. Though if I do buy an E92 it will be a DCT as that's all I'm looking at. Not only does it appear to be the best transmission for this particular car it sounds like a ton of fun. I'll find out Wednesday when I drive my first one.

I've only been driving for a few years, and as a Manual guy, I would have to agree with you on both those scenarios you mentioned. Traffic is the worst in a manual, clutch control becomes annoying real quick.

theRealAV8r amen, same hear love manual but now it has to be an option to be my daily. Meaning only for a second car

There's something to be said for how lazy you all seem. OMG MOVING MY LEFT FOOT AND RIGHT ARM IS SOOOOOOOOOOOO HARD... Only scrubs and senior citizens care. >.>

Glenn Hubbard Sales statistics don't support that. Relatively few consumers of any age care for it in a daily driver. It serves no useful purpose whatsoever any more. And I could just as easily say you're just young, have something to prove, and are easily impressed, but I won't ;)

theRealAV8r Sales statistics don't really mean much. How do you know the reason more people buy more automatics, isn't because they'd prefer to text and drive? You said you drove many decades denoting your age, and the little feller that was agreeing with you states he's only been driving for a few years... I'm neither young, nor old. I've owned many cars, both manual and automatic. Manuals keep people engaged more so than automatics. Ergo, automatics are for lazy/old people that either can't or won't move their arms and legs.

matt avery I know I need to focus

Those spacers and the grille is a need!

Nick Murray *Well real men drive manual transmission xD*

Yeah I love manuals but in city traffic it's horrible. That's the only reason I'd prefer an auto all day

+Ian Thompson for daily driving........just forget about manual......

Then why not a dual clutch automatic with a simulated clutch pedal and shifter with a program telling it to act like a manual ...dont think for one second this could not be done and simulate it perfectly ... and remind you every moment you drive how foolish and childish you are puming that fake pedal and shifting that fake gear shifter lol .... and when you get tired of the manual just unbolt and unplug those simulated pedal and shifter and switch the program back to auto

I drive racing cars, have done for 21 years, and prefer manual. All racing cars I’ve ever driven, and almost all in existence, are manual with a clutch foot pedal or hand paddle. That gives you full control and maximum involvement.

@@RobManser77 False ..Nascar forces manuals but all and I mean all racing that allows autos use and win with them almost always using paddle shifters .. Been proven time and again you loose when you compete against double clutch autos ...Manuals are always slower and I mean always .. No manual driver has won any major races for decades , in fact they only exist in formulas that force them to like nascar

+Bryan Doherty I can guarantee you that an experienced driver can face a DCT anytime, 7 gears against 5 or 6. You don't have to shift through all that gears. Drag racers have 2 or 3 gears, and for good reason, and they can still shift hella fast.

Cristian Ceclan I was thinking just regular day to day driving. I'm sure an experienced driver using a dog clutch manual can shift just as fast or many even faster than a DCT. But with a synchro manual which is what every road car has can't shift that fast. You can shift them that fast but it's bad for them, where a dog clutch you have to slam into gear, or you'll break it. I'm not arguing against you, I just thought of it that way. I'm assuming dragsters use dog clutch manuals as those transmissions are for Motorsport purposes

***** I don't mind driving a standard in traffic at all, I just avoid it because you're basically riding the clutch. I hate DCT cars when you're moving them slowly, every DCT car I've drove is a pain in the ass to park and jerky

+Bryan Doherty i drive my straight drive in the city all the time. put it in third gear and forget about it

not if you shift early

ImBarryScottCSS A DCT is an automated manual transmission. I say that because a typical DCT has a very similar build to a manual transmission. But the computer moves the shift forks and controls the 2 clutches. A typical automatic transmission in a car is nothing but a set(or more) of planetary gear sets that change ratios based on engaged clutch packs. Which in term are pre set by hydraulic pressure in the valve system (transmission RPM, newer ones use computers in combination) and a torque converter with lockup clutch to send power to the transmission. 100% self controlled...automatic. So in a way a DCT is, but at the same time is not, an automatic transmission. Just mess with the paddles and suddenly it's an automated manual, but then put it in drive and it's an automatic transmission.

English Muffin.... Yes, spot on.

English Muffin Nice copy paste from google twat

Hamza Ali Funny, as this is my own writing coming from my head and the time and effort I have spent learning these things throughout the years. This is the way I actually speak when I debate. No copy pasta.

anotherone10 the leds look nicer at night

Yeah the angel eyes are more of a perfect circle with the xexons, LEDs are not e perfect circle

I like the look of the LEDs, to each his own 😀

lol, no one understands what this po wants to say?

+AKIRA xx I thought most of the expense of Xenon went into the ballast and installation. The bulbs are pretty inexpensive, IIRC.

Samsomite "Manuel for win" is not true for Porsche. P-D-K ;)

Slower tho... :(

bmw fool position behind the wheel. I hope I don't become douche when I buy beemer :D

ugh you don't get it xp he's trying to show his triceps LOL

He's sitting in someone else's car. It's possible that he didn't want to adjust the man's seat.

Bossnian763 i believe it has memory seats

It probably does, but maybe he didn't want to mess with it? I have memory seats and I have yet to program it. Idk, just playing devil's advocate

what crawled up your ass bud

GearzMoney Tell that to Tom Atic..

Ricky P but there is in manual

so people Manual >be a man u all>drive manual

You're not a "man" even if you drive manual.

Nastypsychoboy Or buy a 911

+Nick Murray lol, yes, rather that than the almost total makeover of the M4. :)

Nick Murray You must be missing the roof rails and reduced torque and I would have thought that those additional parts would double the re-sale price and make Nick Murray's customised M4 (with free Tui hair) one of the most sought after M4's on the market. *chortle

Grodan Boll lol, no, I think 'total makeover' is an exaggeration, more like minor aesthetic embellishments considering with the exception of the spacers and front splitter most of the parts I mentioned can come as standard options from BMW, I would consider the Vorsteiner M4 as a total makeover. :)

No black wheels

Also DCT transmissions just like manual transmissions have a high fuel efficiency, easier to repair, and lighter and cheaper, and just like automatic transmission you also get a smooth drive experience, so the power flow is constant.

Just add a foot pedal and a shifter and electronically link it to the DCT to make it behave like a manual .... that way the children can have their manuals ... I mean they could make it behave exactly like a manual .... then when you need both hands on the wheel to win a race just flip a switch ...boom .. double clutch auto with paddle shifters ... now you have both ....you would be happy with that right ?

it depends on driver

mlhj83 Good point

+Vasko G. So insightful

i know right?

Calm down bro. I suggest you don't ever look up rally car racing then. Cars are toys for us big boys that like to push a car to its limits. And don't trip over a little bit of dog drool or gravel.

+nikkieXI How did you manage to fit so much douche into such a short comment?

Nice bike douche

+Jesse Chen Probably a very good/comfort design that they can't improve much.

MartinsArmAChannel It's the design I'm talking about. In other words, aesthetics.

+MartinsArmAChannel its called innovation. If everyone thought the way you do, we'd be in the stone age, content with out flints, pointy sticks and wheels. lol

***** Indeed there is

Nick Murray Awesome! I have that, a future M2 or an M4 as my next vehicle!

+amaroudis can you drive a manual?

beyondthelol yes

More robust.

Not the same type of engagement, the car is still doing everything for you. The fact that you can stall the car if you dont know to drive it properly proves just how much more engaging it is. The fact that you can throw it into the wrong gear and blow your shit up is proof. Sure these dont sound like good things, but the point is youre TRULY engaged to the car. The shifter is mechanically physically connected to the trans gears and the clutch is physically connecting the engine and trans to allow movement. Paddles are just buttons that tell the car "ok now"

Yes! They still remain the "ultimate driving machine"!

It's so true. But it's a different story with skilled drivers. They think robot transmission cars are boring.

ruffcrane they are boring. But not bad by any means...just so boring. It feels like a roller coaster or a go cart, not a vehicle that you're operating.

Stupid Flanders I'm still a novice driver, preferring relatively relaxed mountain drives over hardcore tracking. My car's semiauto gearbox keeps me plenty busy (I had wanted a stick, but you can't be too choosy with used cars). But still very sure that if I were to spend more time with a manual car, I would want the 3 pedals even for challenging drives.

+Stupid Flanders Though you need to remember that many of us have not driven anything else than manuals, and so they don't really feel like "busy work", but rather something you do without even noticing. It's the automatic that feels weird for many. This is the case here in western Europe. Even so if much less so than before.

Tommy Lainio I was talking about whether manuals are better for fun driving in which you're trying to find your own limits. In that case, changing gears (the old-fashioned way) is just an added distraction that most likely slows you down and prevents you from focusing on more rewarding stuff (getting the right line, weight transfer, smooth inputs, etc.). I agree that driving a manual leaves much less room for fumbling around with a phone, though it can definitely still be done if you're driving at a fairly constant speed and don't need to change gears much.

stop lying!

Yea it is the best, but sometimes it's useful that DCT changes the gears faster...

lol my 06 gmc canyon 2.8L single cab has something to say ........voooorrrrmmmmmmm....................stfu you manual fuckers. ill heal toe downshift your ass around any Conner or and straight away

+FUNG CHANG Does it really matter? The DCT is faster than the manual. If you care about shifting the gears instead of letting the computer do it,fine get a manual. But if you care about performance,get the DCT

***** basically what i meant was if you want to shift gears,buy a manual,if you want to go fast,get the dct