Part 1 of the "Children of Dune" TV minisseries adapts the Dune Messiah novel in an 80 minutes episode. It's a competent adaptation, considering the budget limitations. It stars James Mc'Avoy and Susan Sarandon😮! The climax scene is masterfully executed!
If he takes the story in Messiah to be the focuspoint in Dune 3, the logical thing would be to use the in between war in flashbacks, maybe connecting those to pivotal points in Messiah
I believe (and hope) the Guild will be present in the third movie. I don't remember seeing anyone talking about this but the fact that Paul specifically says that millions will starve to death, makes me believe that Muad'Dib genocide will happen with he taking control of the guild heighliners and stopping food trade between planets. About the war theme and the addition of more action scenes, I think they can change the whole constitution debate to something more cinematic, like Paul deciding on attacking some specific planet or faction.
There should be. Edric is one of the main conspirators against Paul, in Dune Messiah. They are also the first guild member with a speaking role in the original novels.
It would make more sense that he doesn't sign the Tupile Agreement and deprives everyone from Spice. Whcih would also stop the guild and trade. The constitution debate is cool and honestly it doesn't matter how they change it, I don't trust it will be any good
I still think Villaneuve's two films are the best adaptations. I still love the 1984 film, even if Lynch hates it. And the only changes I did not like revolved around this weird, religious vs. revolutionary rift among the Fremen as it made no sense. Then again, it added to Zendaya's screen time and that seems to have been the goal. Will they keep Ciani around in Messiah? That would be a huge deviation from the book. Also, did the Fremen really achieve anything? In the end, the killed a shit-ton of people (60 billion) in the universe. THAT is the focus of Messiah - how a messianic figure can be salvation or doom, depending on your perspective. I'd really rather gloss over Messiah and go straight to Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune. Those are the best two novels in the series, imo.
I suspect that Messiah will be where Villeneuve GREATLY deviates from the novel, both in terms of what Chani does and also in terms of how Paul's arc ends. Considering he's not adapting the story of Children of Dune, I don't see how he could possible do a faithful Messiah adaptation at this point.
Messiah marks the end of Paul's story and it's also Alia's story. Not to mention Irulan plays a massive part in this one and I am all for Florence Pugh playing Irulan in her manipulative vengeful empress era and I've read the book three times!
I'm HIGHLY sceptical about Part 3, after the direction DV took with Chani. He's clearly fanboying her very hard. Her and a few others being the postergirls of atheism (with LA accents nonetheless) instead of being blind followers of Paul took away from Paul's responsibility for the whole "galactic g.nocide" thing. With Chani & co being in the know about the dangers of blindly following charismatic leaders they also share responsibility for not convincing more Fremen about turning away from religion. But, if religion was their lifeline, their only motivator to go on living in the harsh environment of Arrakis (as it happens with tribes and nations living in very poor circumstances for centuries) then Chani & co having turned away from religion would have been impossible in the first place.
I didn't like her too. She was a terrible casting choice. The only thing she did for the movie was make it longer. Which only makes me assume the theory you're hinting at is she probably sucked off DV for more screen time is probably correct.
While watching the film, I kept thinking that the actress playing Chani's Fremen friend is more like Chani than Zendaya is. I ended up wishing SHE"d be the one to play Chani.
@@AsttoScottThat's not the theory I was hinting at. I'm convinced Zendaya didn't have to go that low in order for her character to have so much agency that Chani as a character ended up standing out like she doesn't belong in this story (letalone Arrakis) at all. The status quo in Hollywood must have not tolerated a female character to be depicted as loyal to her man to a fault. Either that or DV is one of those people who falls in love with fictional characters, hence his fixation with Chani. (Dave Filoni's big favourite is Ahsoka Tano after all...)
Not a whole lot of faith after the "changes" made in Part 2 which they must pivot from making things possibly messy. Might be entertaining, but not what myself of other fans were looking forward to.
Makes sense because the Dune Messiah book begins by giving an overview of the wars Paul's army fights. Maybe Denis will centre the palace conspiracy during one of the big wars highlighted at the beginning of the book, instead of separating the events like the book does. Sounds cool!
@@seanyoung9014The nitpicking started when changing the original story in any adaptation became a viable option. If adaptations were true to the source material to a fault, some people might say "these old stories aren't my cup of tea" and that's it, which would also make another problem clear: that the entertainment industry is relying too much on 60+ years old stories instead of having enough creativity to come up with their own ones. Adaptations should only be one niche, not the main source of income for the industry. This "let's adapt but change this and that blablabla" is just the writers and execs wanting to have their cake and eat it too. With which you can not win, some people don't like that you have your cake and some don't like that you're eating it.
@@manwiththeredface7821 I agree with you there. No one in the industry is willing to take a risk on their investment because they think they won't have much of a return if they do so. If anything, it shows the contempt the industry has for their customer base.
Yeah DV will know just what to do, to loosely adapt Messiah, but ultimately make a part 3 that completes the story he's set up of Paul and Chani in a way that is really compelling.
So far I had loved everthing Villeneuve had made. But I thought Dune 1 was not as good as it could have been. The second watch it was actually better to me, even though I still disliked the changes and him leaving out the dinner scene, Fenring etc. But the second movie was just a major dissapointment. A bad adaptation, horrible changes and the worst villeneuve I've seen so far.
If, IF the movie gets made: 1- I hope Chani's appearances are kept to a minimum. Anytime Zendaya, err, Chani was on screen the energy was sucked out with her petulant child routine. Zendaya has NO/NONE gravitas. 2- The couple of times I have re-watched Part 2 I now find it irritating that the Sarduakar were COMPLETELY neutered. No more of a threat than regular Harkonnen troops. 3- The original books are just movie-unfriendly if you seek to stay close to the source material. Villeneuve has come closer than anyone else.
Honestly I don't think that the issue you mention with Chani was Zendaya's fault. The direction and lines that she was given just were not authentic to the character. Some of the changes were brilliant but others softened the character to the point of absurdity. There was more than a little of that in Jessica's character changes as well. Some of that I can see because it's just not possible to make this book in less than a mini-series but some of it was a little too pandering to "general audiences." I totally agree on your second and third points though.
@@circleofowls After further review: excellent point you make about Zendaya. For sure changes and compromises HAD to be made to get these movies done. Don't get me wrong, she has acting chops but they are TV/RomCon light.
Man I've reach to *point f*** it" when it comes to Villeneuve's Dune films at this point. Dude promised to be "faithful" to the books which myself and many fans of the books were looking and he didn't. So at this point it's pretty much standard to expect Villeneuve to deviate from the books. Especially with the ending of Dune Part 2.😅
Currently re-reading Messiah, and one detail that I completely forgot is that Paul's Jihad is STILL going on during the events of the book. During Paul's council meetings they discuss the ongoing war, recent victories, and future actions. So adding more action should not be difficult. Just flesh out this sub-plot, move some scenes away from Arrakeen and unto war frigates as the war is unfolding. It feels very doable
I wish we could have a director who has the ability to make Dune without botching the story as badly as Dune II did. I am wondering is the director really understands the books at all.
I bet he brings in some of Children in future flashes/backs, and also to flesh out the ending and establish the Artreides legacy....... Really, this is Alia's story and not Pauls, and certainly not Chani's.... Be interesting how he figures this little knot of inconsistency with the movies v the books.
@@wiinterflowers4277 I do really hope that Irulan gets way more to do in Messiah. I understand why she didn't have much to do in Dune 2, so Messiah will really be her opportunity to shine as a character!
@@derek96720 Oh god I agree. We got a preview of what she's capable of. My one hope is that I wanna see her in golden outfits and looking like a true empress!
_What is The War of the Sisterhoods?_ Happens during *Heretics of Dune* and *Chapterhouse: Dune* in the Dune Universe! There was the Butlerian Jihad* which happened 10,000 years before the events of Dune and the War of the Sisterhoods that would take place 5000 years after it. * In the Dune Universe the Butlerian Jihad, happens during: Dune (mentioned only); Dune Messiah (mentioned only); Children of Dune (seen in a vision); God Emperor of Dune (mentioned only); Heretics of Dune (mentioned only); Chapterhouse: Dune (mentioned only).
Knowing Villeneuve, him saying the film will be about "war" probably means the aftermath of war. His film Incendies (and the play on which it's based) is about war but it doesn't have any large action set pieces. It looks at some of the human consequences of war.
Well thought the the first Dune by DV was ok but I saw some things that gave me pause. Then watching part 2 all those little feelings about 1 came to fruition an it was the first time since a couple of other newer movies from 2017 and 2019 that I was unhappy and sad that a movie that I was looking forward to totally failed, at least in my opinion. I will more then likely not go to the theater and watch this but just wait for it to hit cable.
I didn't like that the "it's a cautionary tale about charismatic leaders and religion" was not subtle at all because of Paul and Jessica's conversations in part 2.
Part 2 compounded the issues I had with Part 1. In a Joker 2 like way making me loath it and seeing some of the insidious sleight of hand.. No matter. I have faithfully adapted DUNE, which has the virtue of being contained from present day syndrome, and not bedraggled by its writer/directors hang ups. The Graphic Novel proved faithfulness can be attained in limited space. Filmmakers have no excuse. I'll probably give Dune Prophecy glance. But just a glance. I'm skeptical.
Filmmakers aren't likely to try to make excuses when so many of the most celebrated movies that are adaptations of novels make big to massive changes. The Godfather, The Shining, Forrest Gump, Blade Runner, Jaws, the LotR trilogy, A Clockwork Orange, Arrival, Jurassic Park, etc. The list goes on.
I hope it is focused on the aftermath of war. Dune 2 had a load of flaws to me. Dennis Villeneuve can't portrait large battle scenes well. Both films' big battles were hard to follow and far too brief. The nukes were hardly a big moment, and no spacing guild. Thousands of fremen instantly know how to conduct warfare on spacecraft they've never used before, after the emperor conceded. Don't want to stop another movie, but I i know it wont live up to the books, for me.
All Dennis needs to do is have a scene when the Sisterhood confronts the Spacing Guild as to why to Guild let the war happen. That could lead to the conspiracy to end Paul rule.
Not going to say much more on this. But I find it mind boggling. People are suggesting, Brian Herbert's material get conflated into an adaptation of his father's work. That's many things. But the one thing it isn't, is respecting source material. Though I guess I have "Good News" for you. That was the purpose of the timeline compression (And to make Alia a blank slate), so Denis can incorporate Margot's daughter into the movie and be Alia's age. This is when an adaptation ceases being that and becomes "Inspired By .." . The license to tread on source material.
Sounds like they're in a similar situation that the creators of the Ready Player One movie were in. They had to change things, not because they wanted to, but because most of the story only made sense to us really, REALLY geeky kids. I didn't begrudge them tweeking things for the movie, and I'm fine with what they're doing with the current Dune movies. I mean, come on. We all loved the 1980's Dune and there was a lot that could be picked apart about that one. Lets just enjoy the new content for what it is, a current take on the material. Hopefully this gets more Dune fans in so we can get more movies!
Nope... Paul did NOT start a war to "save his friends" that is a comment that makes me wonder if Villeneuve has even read the books. Paul was running from the war; he however lacked the strength to take the Golden path and stop the war. Dune Messiha was NOT a war epic. I think Danny might do well to get the books on Audible or pick the books up at a used bookstore and sit down and read or listen. Do it right or don't do it at all.
Beautiful movie, but if were the director for such a trilogy in different timeline my movie would be radically different in focus, design, storyline. My version would be very bloody, much more gritty technological and the humans of the future i would make a lot more alien and exotic. A lot harder. Also a LOT more detailed in design. I loved the brutalism but i would have made it it a lot more feudal, glorious, fascist. Also i would have made the bene gesserit way way more cold and cynical. But holy shit, my Harkonnens would be nightmarish. Deaths every minute, like the mongols. Denis approach is a bit theatrical and way way too minimalist, broad strokes.
Even if I would really want to see scenes of the Jihad. What I got from Messiah in terms of commentaries about war is more on the side of Paul facing the negative consequences of war and his fall from grace in the eyes of some of his people
I've read the books and seen the movies but for a general audience there's one thing that seems odd about the jihad and Pauls conquest. The fremen are excellent hand to hand fighters but they're just that. The guild could just maroon them on arrakis while the entirety of the landsraat descends on them and kills them all. The spice must flow and all that. I can't wait for the next movie though.
Agreed. That's really NOT Dune Messiah at all. Hopefully that was some marketing intern, given what we've seen so far from Villeneuve I can't believe that is genuinely how he sums up that story.
11 дней назад
@@circleofowls I will say Dune part 1 and 2 are pretty and they are well filmed, but I think Villeneuve has taken some pretty big liberties with the story. I am taking a wait and see stance like I have all along.
This third installment could have war (or its aftermath) used as a background for a political thriller based largely on espionage and the subtleties of palace intrigues and schemes instead of ending up being an action packed movie (whereas some little action set pieces could be planted here and there). I think that would suit both Villeneuve's personal approach to the theme of war which we have seen in some of his other movies as well as the source material much better.
I half expect around a third of the film to be about the war itself, and the rest of the movie be about conspiracy, palace intrigue, and philosophical pondering.
Paul did not "start a war to save his friends". He took over the Empire, sure. Even the battle to take over the empire was to end the Harkonnen oppression of the Fremen. But the j-war was something that he couldn't stop, would continue without him, even if he ordered it to stop. This is LITERALLY in the dialogue in Dune Messiah. No, no, no. If this is the take they're taking, then the script isn't right. It's wrong. I'm so glad I never invested in Villeneuve's stuff. "More accessible to general audiences" - well, that's the ringing bell of the death of quality. Frank Herbert, Isaac Asimov, John Ronald Reuel Tolkien, Andrzej Sapkowski... all doomed.
As long as Dennis kills Chani off early into the film or replaces Zendaya as Chani, and despite the way Part 2 ended (very dissapointing), part 3 should be good, well? At least okay. And I was so hyped for this 3-movie arch. i love Frank Herbert's Dune.
I was disappointed by part two so my expectations are appropriately managed. I can think of all kinds of ways that Messiah could be a fabulous movie but it's clear that Denis has his own ideas which are far more in line with a European's approach to filmmaking. And while I appreciate that in some ways, in other ways, it's frustrating. And Zendaya just totally ruins it. She just can't summon the necessary gravitas and the direction they took her character in was a deeply flawed creative decision. If she decides to walk it back a little in the next movie, it might be all right, but I suspect he'll double down on it instead. Now she is the hero in a story that wasn't supposed to have heroes and the young women audiences are going to want more. He created that expectation by pandering to them in the first place. But considering today's political and social climate, It was probably the right move from a business standpoint. At the same time, I can't say that getting more women into sci-fi is a bad thing. But I will really feel trolled if he stiffs us on the navigator part. Or worse yet, he decides to make the navigators look like regular people. 🤦🏻
The first movie was excellent, the second was good. Not sure I'm looking forward a third. As you noted the changes made already will mean significant changes going forward. Messiah is the conclusion to Paul's story, showing the end or the results of putting some much faith in a charismatic leader for both the individual and society. It does not have the action because the action has already taken place, now we have to deal with the consequences of those actions.
I am most worried about the portrayal of Paul. He's already lost the plot with all the deviations he's made to Dune. Paul's line at the end of Dune Pt2: "Take them to heaven" as a command to send the Fremen to war, was already antithetical to who Paul was, and what he wanted. If Paul is shown to be manipulating the Fremen into a religious war as part of a dictatorial rulership, like I fear most people incorrectly see it, it will be a complete missing of the mark. Dune Messiah showed Paul's struggle against his knowledge of the future, particularly with his wife, and against the government that sprung up around him, filled with new Fremen bureaucrats and other figures with new-found power, and against being made a figurehead by the Fremen people as they carry out their revenge-fueled war. Dune Messiah certainly wasn't a book about war, so saying that will be a focus is really strange. It was about the IMPACT the war had on the Fremen that left Dune, and how they saw their world changing under the new government, seeing so many things that would have offended their way of life in the desert. And it shows how the rest of the universe's political structures plotted, and fought back, against a ruler that could see the future. (Even Paul wanted to stop the war.)
Thank you. But you are correct. He's going to give us Paul the Evil Dictator and it will be miss praised. While Alia will be presented flawless along with the insertion of Brian material in the form of Margot's daughter. He already labeled Paul Abomination. That wasn't an error. Its intentional. Paul will be saddled with Alia's sins.
I will remain cautiously optimistic. They've done an amazing job, and this interpretation is my preferred version for the universe look wise. The changes made for Dune pt. 2 were jarring, to say the least, and I think most of us agree that the changes were unnecessary and kind of ruin it for some of us. Will have to see if they do Messiah any kind of justice even with the alterations. Also can we please talk about what was the point of making Liet-Kynes ethnicity match Chani's actress in the movie if they never even state the fact that Kynes is Chani's straight up mother! So bloody damn vexing! 😂
Messiah and Children are such entirely different books than Dune or God Emperor. Even the new books, such as paul of dune, are entirely different - while not "slice of life" books, as compared to Dune, or Emperor, they don't compare well . I'd love to see a children of dune +emperor mashup, though
People seem confused about the term adaptation. The term and act itself implies change. So why do so many nitpick these changes? Movies are never word-for-word, scene-for-scene carbon copies of the books from which they are drawn. If they were, they'd be terrible. Film is a different medium, with different demands and goals, and various visual and story changes are often necessary to make a compelling movie. The original books aren't being changed or burned. They'll always be there. The films are different! Let's enjoy the differences and uniqueness of the films within this world inspired by Herbert.....Villenueve is a master director and storyteller. Let him cook.
I'm sorry, but the idea that Messiah doesn't have enough action or entertainment... is insane to me. Keywords like jihad, Scytale, stone burner, blindness, Hayt, Alia, etc. should all hint at amazing scenes that could be depicted.... I do agree that the tone of the movie will likely be more like Part 1 than Part 2. And maybe that's not what the general audience wants.
As much as I enjoy the first two DUNE films, Denis has really got to show more of the Lansraad,, CHOAM, the Guild and other major forces of the greater Imperium that has been hinted at but not shown. We're getting Paul's story but DUNE 3 needs to really show the formidable forces he's opposing. DUNE, so far, has felt... small... in a universe that Frank Herbert has to fight to cram into his books. I want to feel the size and depth of the DUNE universe.
The short version - Villeneuve is going to take a big multi million dollar dump on Herbert's work again and will then be called a "visionary" for it. Can't wait for him to drop a big one on 'Rama'.
The Nerd Cookies must flow ! Will he fold " Kevin Andersons" Bridge Novel between Dune and Messiah into the narrative which will involve war and an attempt on Pauls life in the throne room ?
Although I like Denis Villeneuve previous films, he lost me with Dune Part 2 and there is no way the third film can fix that. A disappointment, not only in story, but also in the visual interpretation, which was his greatest talent in the past.
I think they can do it, segue from capital politicking, to battlefield where a central character close to Paul has some expanded understanding of the universe due to the terrible things they have to do. They did kill over 55 billion in their fanatical, empire wide attack. They can do that a couple times. This can then provide a lever to director to help audience understand the limitations and dangers of a messiah while sating the modern audience idiocracy action lust.
After the many gross and unnecessary deviations from the source material in Dune Part 2, I can't see any way that even a minimally faithful adaptation of Dune Messiah is possible at this point. The original story has been butchered beyond recovery. Even if Dune Part 3 is, like Dune Part 2, a good sci fi movie on its own merits, it seems all but certain that it will be another poor adaptation of the Dune novels. Luckily, we still have the Sci Fi channel miniseries of Dune from nearly a quarter of a century ago, and Children of Dune a couple of years later, that remain the best option for a broadly faithful adaptation of the novels even if they are on a shoe string budget by comparison and have somewhat dated digital effects.
@@eaa4773 There is no "better movie" that deviates from the books. If you're going to do Dune then do it. If you're going to do your own thing to make a "better movie" then you need to come up with your own name as well and leave "Dune" out of it.
@@eaa4773 But it didn't make it a better movie. It introduced plot holes and frankly made Chani come off as more of an antagonist than the love of Paul's life.
@@nightraven2975 I get what you're saying but if someone isn't doing a faithful adaptation they shouldn't be using the name IMHO. They're taking the value of a recognizable and loved name and using it for something else, essentially a bait-and-switch at the expense of the fans. I get that changes have to be made to fit the format but I have a very low tolerance for it and clearly a lot of other people do as well. You'd just have to look at the backlash against Rings of Power, for example. Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga, did it right, they made it clear from the title that it was a reimagination of the original story line.
If Denis uses some material from "Paul of Dune" meaning Feyd Rautha's daughter knife fighting Alia and showing what happens during the war in each focused character's memories of it in flashbacks, I think it will do great.
There you go, the fandom criticizes yet again... A movie isn't a talking book. Denis has clearly shown he can adapt of good story for a larger audience, and he's had a trilogy in mind since the very beginning. Fanboys and fangirls will be pissed no matter what. I say let them be pissed. I trust Denis and his cinematic art. It will be another success!
Bijaz, agent of the Bene Tleilax trying to buy Paul with a faithful clone of the dead Chani. For this, you need clone Duncan, a dead Chani, the conspiracy between the NONEXISTENT GUILD and Irulan and a lot less time focusing on war. Good luck with that.
I love the books, but a film adding the jihad in would make Messiah more entertaining. But how would they complete the film without the birth and deaths
Dune 3 will be garbage. If DV had actually shown the Dune universe and all the internal aspects of the story then a Dune 3 would be fascinating. But all DV did was show external stuff; Lawrence of Arabia in space. So Dune 3 will just be the undoing of Dune 2. Just as Joker 2 was the undoing of Joker. It will be a vapid experience with lot's of distorted and convoluted excuses for making it all about the women. Paull while by a whiny little child just as he is in Dune 1 and 2.
Not impressed with Villaneuve’s version at all and will not waste my time and money on Dune: Messiah in the theater. Will watch only when it’s streaming. If anything, I’ll read the books again for the umpteenth time.
""...Paul has to start a war," Denis mused about the 2nd film"... So he's really talking about what he did in Dune2 here, imo. He did NOT say anything in this quote you're sharing from the interview about the 3rd flim, but you go on to say that the war theme may be central in the 3rd film, based on that quote! All YOUR words, not mine. I think we have a glitch in the matrix here Elaine! And I do concur that I'll trust Denis (until he ever does disappoint me).
Might have to pull in more elements from Children or God Emperor, the only problem is the farther and farther you go into the books the more muddled the themes get and the more trippy and far out the concepts get. Where is a good spot to stop telling the story that gives any sense of completion and closure?
Both, part 1 and part 2 are Visually and technically impeccable. Part 1 was a great hype and welcomed, but part 2 was a big flop due to the many meaningless interventions to the Dune lore. I still value Lynch's extended version even more.
As someone that loved Dune (the book) and loved everything that Villeneuve had made so far, Dune 2 (the movie) was a huge disappointment. Even more so because it will inevitably make Dune Messiah (the movie) absolutely garbage. How are you going to do Dune Messiah with Chani being this LA girlboss character who is anti Paul from the start? What will be the motivation to not give Irulan a child? Why would she join the conspirators etc. Dune 2 was just horribly done, it was strange. Like did you guys notice at one point Paul is giving this misson to cross the desert on his own from Stilgar. But then Chani comes and saves him. And we never see them do their journey or even the consquences. It just cuts to antoher scene. Dune Messiah is the first Villeneuve movie i"m not excited for and I even wish he wouldn't do. As a movie Dune 2 was good.. as an adaptation it was garbage.
Too many things in the air to say one way or another. Frank was a good writer, but he made some of what we would now view as being backwards comments about JFK while being interviewed. I think if he could have seen the declassified documents, he would've realized he had misspoken about Kennady. Now Nixon he was right on the spot, until about 8 years ago... That being said, I think he's just gonna do a modified version of Messiah that reflects on how the war could have been less bloody with a more diplomatic approach. Something hinting at Krailizec. It's possible Paul starves the imperium of spice to break it's addiction. Again, anything can happen now.
Sorry Eliane ( aka Nerd Cookies girl ) it just upsets me when someone takes credit for something that is not his and on top of that tries to change the original story !
I think he should not do this next film. It would to be very different to the source material since it a short book. Perhaps take aspects of Dune Messiah and Children of Dune. Do finish Alia’s story arc? We shall see.
The Chani cliffhanger ruined the end of 2 for me. It wasn't faithful at all to the idea that the concubine was the true wife and Irulan was just political spectacle. The Sci Fi channel epic is still the best adaptation. Dennis' is still solid and looks the most polished. Some of the liberties make no sense though.
Part 2 was crap compared to the first. Even some of the CGI was copy pasted crap, way too much cost cutting. It destroyed the immersion. The end battle lasted what? 2 minutes and most of it was filmed inside a black room... I don't have my hopes up for the 3rd movie at all.
@@drfeelgood94 What was done to Chani was only one part of my issue with Dune 2 - the movie changed Jessica from a complex and interesting figure who walks the difficult line between her roles as Bene Gesserit, mother to Paul the man, and mother to a prophesied messianic figure, into essentially a somewhat one note secondary antagonist who preys upon the weak and is quite happy to risk sacrificing her own son to advance her interests. Stilgar was rewritten as a comedy relief religious fanatic out of the gate instead of a capable and focused leader who is diminished incrementally over time by his increasingly fervent belief in Paul. There is also the whole cloth addition of an internal divide within the Fremen between the atheistic Northern Fremen with their contempt for the beliefs of their 'fundamentalist' Southern cousins (something that seems to be a heavy handed reference to contemporary American politics). The Water of Life is depicted as something that causes a complete personality transplant, instantly making characters that take it ruthless, lacking in empathy, and even outright cruel, instead of something that offers a shift in perspective to its user but doesn't completely rewrite who they are. The decision to have Paul threaten the Spice fields with nuclear weapons instead of using the ecological knowledge of the Fremen to garner the understanding of how to use the Water of Death to disrupt the Spice cycle. The changes to the depiction of Alia and the way the killing of the Baron was something Paul undertook, and Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohaim called Paul and not Alia 'abomination', suggesting that a total rewrite of Alia's character arc in the next movie is also on the horizon. The excision of Paul and Chani's first child from the story entirely. The removal of the role of the Spacing Guild from the events on Arrakis, something that totally shifts the balance of power of the entire narrative. The changes as to why the Fremen Jihad began. The list of unnecessary changes - many of them deleterious to the painstaking world building that Frank Herbert constructed for the original novel - is long and goes far beyond just the egregious hatchet job that was done to Chani.
Looks like I am the only fan that liked what Denis did to Chani character. From almost not noticeable decoration in the background he made her interesting and compelling character important for the story and Paul's development. And I liked the Zendaya's performance. Regarding other factions though I also didn't like how they got diminished in favour of Bene Gesserit only. Especially the lack of greater presentation of S. Guild might turn out to be bad for the 3rd movie. If it will continue to be disregarded, as in part 1 nad 2, the plot will suffer terribly as Guild's agendas are so important for the entire story. If they will be finally portrayed with the propoer attention it might be too hard to swallow for casuals, as they will be suddenly introduced to a lot of new lore: Guild, and Bene Tleilax. But for now I trust Denis. I think he can pull it off.
Before DUNE, I'd never seen Zendaya act, so I didn't have any expectations about her. For all the complaint I hear, I think she did fine. Chani is a warrior, takes life seriously and Zendaya showed it. I felt this version of Chani had to serve as an indicator of Paul's "turn to the dark side". I could have a little issue with the scene where Paul declared his intention to marry Irulan and Chani's reaction to it, but I'm also curious about his prediction how Chani will come to understand all this. The one sure thing is that Hollywood always changes whatever intellectual properties it gets its hands on. With some movies, I can accept the changes and with others I don't. I'm aware of the changes Denis has made but I've seen more to like than not.
I know you are the messenger but the message from Villeneuve isn’t great I wish he’d be quiet and finish the script set a cast and start shooting. Other than that I wish Disney / Lucasfilm would hire me to write stories for movies so I could help kick Villeneuve and WB’s behinds at the box office. Have Hope fans!
When watching Dune with my Parents, it's too easy to just make current Statements from the Ethnic Cleansing of the Middle East today, so I had to emphasize the book came out when my Parents were 14.
I’m amazed how many people in the comments are not a fan of Villeneuves adaptation. If he adapted the book beat for beat it wouldn’t work that well. I love the few changes he made. It adds more conflict and drama while staying faithful to the core themes and ideas of Frank Herbert. I trust Denis to do a great job with Messiah. I think Messiah will begin with Chani not on Pauls side. Everyone will be against Paul probably except Stilgar and Alia. Eventually Chani will come to understand and be on his side and they will reconcile just like Paul says in Part Two “She will come to understand, I have seen it.” But having Chani against Paul at the beginning of the story will emphasize the tragedy of his actions.
I'm more amazed that anyone is amazed that there are many people who are not fans of his dune adaptations after the many changes he's done from the book
"If he adapted the book beat for beat it wouldn’t work that well." Why not? He was already pretty close with how his films came out. Just make Chani her normal self, make Liet his normal self, make the war the Emperor's idea (not a BG plot that makes no sense whatsoever), and add the Dinner scene back in. Plus some additional references to the Lansraad and the spacing guild would help flesh out the political motivations in the story.
