All art is an amalgamation of experiences. There's no such thing as a completely unique construction. Ripping off one source is plagiarism, ripping off a ton of sources is art.
I love Dune, and i know Star Wars took concepts from Dune, however Herbert would by straight up lying if he said he hadnt taken concepts from Princess of Mars aka John carter
Herbert had a serious ‘manchild’ problem. He saw a sandy planet, a princess, and ships, and just immediately assumed theft. Forgetting, or ignoring, that he himself ADMITTED he had taken multiple Oz plotlines and characters and changed them slightly to fit his world. The dude destroyed his own series and never forgave the world for it.
@@grubalaboocreosote4774 Many of the best creators of nerdy cultural stuff were themselves reflective of their fanbases, including salty, socially maladjusted nerds with trouble conceiving of women as real humans.
@@grubalaboocreosote4774yeah dune is amazing, but the sequels are just so bizarre it is very hard to read if you are just a casual reader, he could have made the sequels so much better
@@ajl9772How can you call Dune a rip off? A lot of the stuff in it was straight up invented by Frank and it was a defining book in the sci-fi genre, akin to Lord of the Rings in the Fantasy genre. Herbert was very clear where his influences came from: growing oil dependence from the Middle East, Arabic Bedouin tribes, Islam, drugs, the Cold War, industrialisation and the destruction of nature, etc. The fiction which came beforehand that influenced it were things like War of the Worlds, etc. Lord of the Rings did to and Herbert sent a draft to Tolkien as he wanted his approval. Herberts book was so out there that it was rejected by most publishers. He didn't make much money off the 1st book, despite its massive success, since he had to sign such an unfavorable contract with the publishers. I love Star Wars, but Lucas admitted taking lots of inspiration from Dune and a number of things are clearly lifted straight from it, with a few changes: prescience/the voice = the force, Dune = Tatooine, worms = worm in empire strikes back, Empire = Imperium, Lightsabre = crysknives, single biome planets, force shields, etc. You can also draw comparisons between Luke and Leia and Leto II and Ghanima and the ending of Dune Messiah mirrors Revenge of the Sith in a lot of ways. Star Wars has clearly grown and evolved since, but at its core, it wasn't really much more than a really well executed big budget spoof movie based on the Duniverse. As I say, I'm a massive Star Wars fan, but Star Wars took a lot from Dune. Dune is a lot more complex and philosophical than Star Wars, which is part of what sets them apart. Star Wars is more action orientated, fun, child friendly and is a lot easier to get your head around. I love them both for different reasons.
I saw Frank Herbert speak twice at my college campus. The first time was around 1977 and all the Dune nerds were furious over the Star Wars movie and repeatedly asked why he didn’t sue everybody involved with the rip off. Frank Herbert dismissed the question saying everybody borrows from everybody else. However, a couple years later I read an item in the newspaper saying Frank Herbert had come to a settlement with George Lucas - there were no other details and this was before the internet made life easy to look up info.
Yeah, the guy who made dune literally ripped off Islamic lore blatantly and is super hypocritical with the star wars situation. Really he is mad someone got more famous ripping him off then he got ripping a religion off.
@@EyeOfArcadiaI know, I mean that he didn’t live enough to complain and hate 40K like he did with Star Wars, since 40K triples in Dune’s similarities compared to Star Wars
Lucas has openly said that Star Wars was greatly influenced by The Hidden Fortress. A movie about a princess being escorted across enemy territory by a general, with a short rotund character and a tall skinny character supplying comedy relief. He even wanted Mifune to play Obi-wan, but was turned down.
Becuase he knew Akira Kurosawa wouldn’t sue him for ripping off Hidden Fortress, but Frank Herbert might. The dude is a slime ball that acting as if he was humble while not give credit to Herbert because he worry about his wallet.
@@lingeringsnowleaf3829 Frank Herbert sounds like a guy that would try and sue Webster's Dictionary, because it has all the words from his books in it. Lucas also tried to get Toshiro Mifune to play the Obi Wan, but was quickly turned down.
@@r3h0l3s7Completely wrong, if Frank wanted to, he could’ve easily sued George. Man was too old to give a damn. Look it up “Is Star Wars a rip off of Dune?”. Now before you say well, Dune is a rip off of Isaac Asimov’s foundation. It’s not, Dune was inspired, but it’s a completely different story. Star wars is a blatant copycat of Dune. I grew up with the Star Wars first, but when I got older, I finally got my hands on the book Dune. When I finish the book all I can remember it’s just how similar it was to Star Wars, just with better writing. Once you recognize it, you can’t see what a horrible thief George Lucas actually is.
@@aurelius6972 Similarities like: a desert planet (that's immediately left behind by the second third of the movie), a princess, an empire and... That's it? I mean, Star Wars takes more from samurai movies than from sci-fi
@@lingeringsnowleaf3829 Sure, because those simple similarities like a desert planet and the name of a princess mean Herbert is owed millions. Just because one story inspires another does not mean it does not deserve to exist. Nothing would ever be created if no one was allowed to use established framework to build their own story. Princess's are not unique to Dune. You can't sue everyone who ever puts a princess in their story.
@@ryan.1990unless you wanna start claiming Princess Arial is also ripping off Princess Alia, then it’s not a rip off. Alia and Leia might seem similar, but just using the letters “l” “a” and “i” doesn’t make it copying.
Anakin’s entire story is literally parallel to Paul’s throughout the prequels. George took a lot but Frank is cranky a bit I won’t lie…3PO line was hilarious tho
I don’t understand what RU-vidrs obsession is with making Star Wars a rip off of Dune. Herbert wrote a pretty accessible book with a fantastic world… But he filled it with a lot of depression, distrust of authority, rejection of religion, and corruption. Adults enjoy reading about things like that. None of these themes are present in Star Wars. The reason Herbert didn’t sue is because he had no grounds to sue. Full stop
@@anakinlowground5515The tropes and archetypes they source are older than either work. Witches/Wizards, Emperor, True Nobility, Twisted Nobility, foretold son, a champion's duel with a nemesis. Herbert makes it harder to parse whether the characters embody their archetypes or they are merely perceived as being those archetypes (with regards to Missionaria Protectiva and the religious jargon) once you cross the first half of the book. This level of abstraction alone sets these two works way, way apart.
@@anakinlowground5515yeah like what similarities exactly? and pls dont list just tatooine because if we are going that route then i will said frank rip off from a princess of mars book
Herbert is pretty baseless in this. The similarities between the 2 series are mostly just common themes found in Sci fi and just story telling in general. Alia and Leia are also extremely different characters, they just both happen to be princesses whose first name is only 4 letters. By his logic you could say he ripped off the foundation series or Lawrence of Arabia or any other film or media source that has these same basic concepts that have been told for hundreds of years.
Great answer. I love both Star Wars and Dune but have never gotten the impression that Star Wars ripped off Dune. Foundation was before either and laid a lot of groundwork. By the way, I’m enjoying Apple TV’s Foundation, but of course it’s nothing like the books which were better.
He was off-base assuming Leia was a rip off of Alia, but that's just because he picked the wrong character. I'm a Star Wars fan first and foremost so I'm not saying this to rip on Star Wars but Leia is very clearly Ghanima and Luke is Leto II. Anakin is Paul, George Lucas just started in the middle of the story rather than the beginning. The parallels are pretty clear once you think about it.
@@writerchick94 not really seeing how. Luke is a very stereotypical main character that goes on the hero’s journey, doesn’t get corrupted by evil and sees the good in everyone. Leia is a princess in distress that needs to be rescued by some sort of knight. That story has been told long before Dune. Other than being some sort of Chosen one and being the main character for some portion of the time, there’s really not that much Paul and Anakin have in common. They have distinct backgrounds, journeys, and fates. Anakin's story is a tragic arc of redemption within the Star Wars saga, while Paul's path in Dune involves political and religious transformation with far-reaching consequences. These are all character archetypes that have been around much longer than Dune. There’s also more damning evidence that Herbert stole from Sabres of Paradise then there is that Lucas stole from Dune.
@@robertniddleman luke and leia are twins with superpowers born to the chosen one (that was foreseen by an extremely powerful space religion and who is demonstrated to be the chosen one based on some strange quality of his genetic material) whose prescient powers and resulting choices ultimately lead to mass genocide, his own nearly complete moral corruption, and specifically the death of the love of his life during childbirth, all of which can only be righted by the sacrifices of his twin children and specifically his son leto II *cough* sorry luke. I'm specifically not claiming that star wars is a complete rip off of dune, but there's more similarities between the world-building and characters than JUST archetypes. I LOVE the idea archetypes, I think there's a lot of really cool analyses of Star Wars that delves into Campbell's work and also how other mythologies inspired Star Wars. I also fully recognize Dune is inspired by other media, as well, and that's also fine because that's how art works. But there are a lot of parallels between Star Wars and Dune that go beyond just what inevitably happens when you tell a story. And that's fine. It's more funny than anything. I don't think George Lucas intentionally made those parallels, but Dune was very much in his subconscious.
@@robertniddlemanMoisture farmers, sand worms, sword fighting spacemen, the voice of control- force. Come on man. Are you going to say he didn’t take from Kurosawa aswell?
@@jkevinparker I'd have to read or watch dune to understand. But another way to look at it is that dune is just an influential piece of work and so is Star wars
@@therandompineapple3805You should read it, it’s a good book. I don’t know if I would say Star Wars ripped off Dune or copied it… but it’s clear that George Lucas was heavily inspired by it
You don’t need to read dune all stories are basically the hero’s journey you can take the first Harry Potter and compare it to Star Wars new hope and they are the same style. It’s inductive of the fact all stories are the same with the same possible outcomes. All stories are limitless by endings the middle part are normally the same. You can look it up it’s crazy when getting irritated over it I would have told the guy all stories are the same who cares
@@peklenc9727 If anyone told me he’d read Lawrence of Arabia I would presume he was a liar, insane, or from the future as there is not a book with that name
Not really, as John Carter of Barsoom has been alive for a very long time. He doesn't remember being paul's or Luke's age. And, it is more similar to Star Wars with it's pulpy action and soft scifi/mystical elements.
@@rafeshort8884 I understand, my point is more that how many details removed do you have to be in order to not be a rip off? Sci-Fi as a genre(as we know it today) is really quite young (200-300 years old) and things are bound to be overlapping as it’s a shallow pool many are drawing from. Look at ancient myths Greek, Roman and Egyptian all have quite a few overlapping details. It’s clear Lucas was inspired by Dune but took it further than Frank Hebert with his own Mythos. (Although the recent Spice nonsense in Boba Fett is a clear rip off) 😅
@@danemilybaxter1030 Your point is valid. Being inspired by something is not ripping it off. I think most authors are simply paying homage to the works that inspired them. Most stories have similarities, I just always go in with an understanding that this story is new to me. It's honestly the same with music. Art begets Art.
Yeah just some elements were taken from dune like the word spice and some of Paul journey as a character is slightly similar to anakin ( also Paul in the original movie looks similar to anakin)
Yeah, I mean knowing George Lucas’s preferences I would be surprised if he’s ever read Dune. He’s been a film buff all his life, all his movies are based on his life, and the movies he grew up watching
The author himself couldn't even identify which of HIS OWN WORKS Star Wars ripped off. This pretty much craters any credibility this accusation carries. Influence/inspiration is incredibly common in all works of fiction, particularly in the science fiction and fantasy genres, you'd be incredibly hard-pressed to find an original story that doesn't pull a ton of influence or inspiration from earlier works.
He never watched Star Wars when he made most of his comments calling it a rip off, he refused, he went by what his son said to him And Herbert ripped of John Carter by any logic of similarity That was a desert planet with a very valuable substance guided by prophets leading history to what they believe is its conclusion, following a princess and a legendary warrior who can traverse in ways nobody has seen (jumping and sand worms) His story is MORE SIMILAR to John carter than Star Wars is to Dune And every time I hear more stories of him calling out Star Wars where at least most of his comments calling it a rip off and causing controversy happened BEFORE HE SAW THE FILM, I want to get a Time Machine, go back in time and call this guy a hypocrite
@@jackwriter1908 i read it im just saying he never watched it himself he just took his sons word for it which I wouldn’t take since he’s obviously biased like why would he ever comment on it
He didn't sue because he didn't have a case, nor leg to stand on. I've read, and watched both mediums and honestly see very little similarities. No more than any other sci-fi franchise.
Yeah, I’m a huge fan of both and the only two things that ever stood out to me as major “not coincidences” are both having a drug called “spice” and a mind controlling “voice” power. And even then, both of those things are major things in Dune and just passing references in Star Wars that could easily be written off as Easter eggs for Dune fans. Leia is nothing like Irulan or Alia. Jedi aren’t really like the Bene Gesserit other than both being weird mystical orders. That’s like saying Catholic nuns are a rip off of Tibetan monks, lol. Love them both but every similarity I’ve found could be explained away as either coincidence, inspiration, or Easter egg.
@@BleachO I've said parts of this in a few comments so I'm sorry if you've happened to be in those chains as well 😅 but Leia isn't a parallel to either irulan or Alia. She's ghanima - the twin sister of the main hero with supernatural abilities since birth whose father was the "chosen one" because of his funky genetics and a prophecy concocted by a space religion, only when he accepted being the "chosen one" it had devastating consequences including a galactic genocide that he couldn't prevent despite his ability to see into the future, resulting in his own fall to darkness, so his heroes journey had to be picked back up by his son...who had a twin sister, don't forget 😅 I love Star Wars myself and I didn't get into Dune until much later, but the parallels are pretty solid once you think about it. I'm not saying that's good or bad but I am saying it's funny.
@@writerchick94 Agree, but that's not what a lot of the "Star Wars is a rip off of Dune" say. They see "space princess" and say Leia is a ripoff of Irulan. Also, though, I'm speaking strictly about the book "Dune" not the sequel. Most of the "rip off" complainers just focus on the first book and I doubt that theyve even read the 2nd, lol.
I’d also like to point out that Star Wars had a lot of inspirations. The trench run was similar to the climax of the movie ‘the Dam Bombers’. The story also loosely follows that of an old Japanese movie (I forgot the name). I feel like it’s unfair of Frank to say that Star Wars ripped of dune when in reality it had a lot of inspirations and original storylines
The trench run was actually inspired by a 1964 film called 633 squadron. At the climax of the film a squadron of Mosquitoes has to run the gauntlet of AAA fire and fighters to bomb a target in a fjord
@@armyreservist0 there's a lot of dialogue during the Trench Run that is line-for-line quoted from Dam Busters I'd say Uncle George borrowed from both films
If I remember right, one of the reasons Herbert had this level of animosity about it was because Lucas had sued a smaller sci-fi writer over similarities to Star Wars. At which point, Herbert pointed out that he could sue over Star Wars being similar to Dune.
Both stories are about an army of oppressed people fighting an evil empire who's main villian is a servant of an emperor who is vaguely hinted at in the first two thirds of the story and who's appearance is revealed at the end of said story.
@@thefuriousfatty2297 "Both stories are about an army of oppressed people fighting an evil empire" Stories have been written about such for thousands of years. "who's main villian is a servant of an emperor." A greater scope villain is so common we have the term 'greter scope villain' to describe them. They have, again existed for thousands of years. Quite often the 'big bad' is the general or captain of a military while the 'greater scope villain' is the ruler. These are both just common fantasy tropes converted into science fiction. Herbert 'stole' such concepts himself as he sure didn't come up with them. He just stole them first...
Being a “Spice Miner” only indicates it’s the same ‘Universe’ and an acknowledgement of Dune. Lucas has long maintained he wanted to remake Flash Gordon, but couldn’t get the rights. I think all these stories are part of a long legacy of Epics and Sagas throughout the ages. Let’s not forget George Lucas studied anthropology. Campfires, and daydreams invented these stories Millenia ago.
The spice in Star Wars seems a bit different than the Dune universe. Basing this on expanded universe, which isnt cannon anymore. Not sure with the new stories.
I’ve read dune before. The similarities are that there’s a princess that can kindof use the force but not really, a chosen one, an evil baron that I guess is kindof like the emporer but not really, and it’s in space. Frank Herbert’s really grasping at straws on this one
He never watched Star Wars when he made most of his comments calling it a rip off, he refused, he went by what his son said to him And Herbert ripped of John Carter by any logic of similarity That was a desert planet with a very valuable substance guided by prophets leading history to what they believe is its conclusion, following a princess and a legendary warrior who can traverse in ways nobody has seen (jumping and sand worms) His story is MORE SIMILAR to John carter than Star Wars is to Dune And every time I hear more stories of him calling out Star Wars where at least most of his comments calling it a rip off and causing controversy happened BEFORE HE SAW THE FILM, I want to get a Time Machine, go back in time and call this guy a hypocrite
@@Fuckalope-cm5dkDune isn't trash. It's really good. At least the books, I haven't watched the recent movies. But yeah, some parts of Star Wars is inspired by older stories with a new spin on them, and some are more original.
two stories about the hero’s journey and space travel. God how could he not sue with all the direct rip offs? (the joke is frank herbert was salty someone else also made sci fi about a young man and star wars is BARELY a knock off at best )
Yoo definitely more then that. Bloodline of Paul is an important aspect just like luke. The jedi feel very inspired by the bene geseret. Plenty more. Its very obvious George Lucas loved dune
@@kazvanrooijyou can't be serious as to say BLOODLINE being important is a rip off. It's important in most historical stories. The mind trick is most likely influenced by the bene geseret but that's it, the rest of the force is just telekinesis and common spiritual magic myths like being able to connect with animals or have visions of the future. It's obvious yes that George Lucas loved dune, but Herbert didn't sue because he knew he had no legal ground. GL's inspirations were vast and dune was only a tiny part of them.
@thehdtv7552 No but its more then just bloodline. Spoiler for Dune part 2: Im talking about the fact that there is a twist where its revealed that the films hero is a son or grandson from the main villain. Come on dude that is pretty specific. Cant deny that right?
@@kazvanrooij I know I read the book. That's not copying. There are some tropes that have been around in our stories for hundreds and thousands of years, and a character turning out to be related to the villains is one of them. There are many forms to it, one such being the Luke 'adopted' version and another the Paul 'complex house relations mixed with some 3rd party manipulating them'. Either way, even if George Lucas instead decided to take Paul's archetype and have Luke instead be related to the emperor, and a senator like Leia, it still wouldn't be copying. Because that isn't a character, it's an outlined archetype. Most archetypes are based in our history, that's why we still have some characters similar to shit like Shakespeare. You could pinpoint one thing in dune that Herbert 'took' from some other work and go "that's copying" even though you would have to ignore that he builds upon said elements and the implications of it in his world.
George took inspiration for Star Wars from Kurosawa movies, Flash Gordon, the fall of the Roman Empire,… he’s a movie guy, but he never said anything about Dune.
This argument is a kin to saying Space 1999 and Star Trek ripped each other off. Or Barbarella and She-Ra are the same characters. Frankly I could say Dune is a ripoff of LOTR. Herbert and Lucas used the same methodologies in developing their concepts. The hero’s journey, which was developed when humans started to communicate by way of fables, lessons, stories. Herbert most likely was upset that SW became a conglomerate and Dune was collecting dust. Remember ROJ was 83 and Dune (84) ROJ made almost $450 million worldwide and Dune $30 million. I am basically going to say “Bitter, party of one”, would have been his mentality.
the first dune book was published in 1965 and the first lotr book was published in 1954, both of these can be verified with a search of web browser. So how did Tolkien steal from Herbert?
@@MengenefulTolkien couldn’t have possibly ripped Herbert off, as Lotr was released 10years before Dune. Add that the storys have basically nothing in common and have utterly conflicting philosophies, that claim is hilarious. Not to mention that Tolkien was sent a copy of Dune by the publishers of Lotr and did not enjoy it at all.
@Mengeneful Your comment makes no sense. Are you saying someone else said Tolkien ripped off dune or are you questioning Tolkien ripping off Dune? Or are you saying flat-out that Tolkien stole ideas from Dune? Either way, Dune was written in the 1960s. LotR came out in the 1940s.
Hero’s journey? Dune? Dune is the opposite lol He’s talking about similarities outside the main story. Lucas could have made the exact same story without copying many world/lore aspects, which he did I love Star Wars and it serves a (very good) different purpose than dune, but to deny that a lot of it was copied is straight BS
@@Here4thechaoss Dune is pretty much the opposite of the hero's journey. The kid (or rather his son) becomes an all-powerful megalomaniac who is also psychic.
I've always loved how some toxic Dune fans try to make Lucas seem like a conman and a liar when he's outright said that he took inspiration from Dune and several other things but those people acted like Herbert invented the sci-fi genre and the concept of a rebellion fighting an empire plus take away Tattoine, most of the similarities disappear. Both are great.
@@RMartian76 it's a shame your TikTok infested brain can't pay attention to a story for longer than five minutes without cheap CGI battle to distract you 😂.
No, he didn’t. They both borrowed from a giant sci-fi in mythological tradition in ancient cultures. Star Wars and Dune are completely different in tone and themes. In Star Wars, they spend most of their time and space.
I think the real reason is because both The Dune creator and George Lucas were interested in the work of Joseph Campbell, who placed a heavy emphasis on the Hero’s journey in an archetypal sense, and both creators were attempting to create the most archetypal hero’s journey the could. Herbert himself said he is “heavily imbued with Jung”, the psychologist who created the term archetype in the modern sense and who Campbell was heavily influenced by.
Star wars did not "Rip" off Dune. We're there elements that were influenced by Dune? Maybe, maybe not. But that's how art works, artists influence other artists.
Weird to me how anyone can consider something that wore its influence on its sleeve and still managed to create something that was not only entirely original but groundbreaking and pop culture-defining a “knock-off.”
To be fair no one’s ever said star wars is super original. It’s story just didn’t need an entire dictionary on the back that you’d constantly flip back and forth with 💀💀
We all stand on the shoulders of giants. Copyright and patent laws are actually kind of stupid. It should just be those who invent, keep for themselves.
@@JustinlADFP that's my point. There are as many similarities between Foundation and Dune as there are between Dune and Star Wars, just surface level stuff. Between Foundation and Star Wars on the other hand...
So, instead of being honored that he inspired one of the greatest movie franchises of all time, he decided to be a petty child, very cool, alpha Chad move right there
First episode of Star Trek (not the pilot). Man grows in power where he's able to move things around with his mind, his eyes change, he's able to shoot lightning from his hands...
Rip-off is a strong word. Dune influenced a lot of science fiction. Hell sandworms slowly became a Sci-fi trope after Dunes release. Star Wars is just the most popular one
SPOILER ALERT Bene gesserit-jedi temple Paul atreides/ anakin skywalker The voice/ jedi mind tricks Chani dies at giving birth to twins/padme dies at giving birth to twins Mother we are the harkonnens/darth vader "luke i am your farher" Baron Vladimir harkonnen/jabba the hut Sandworms/sarlacc pit Arrakis/tattoine Spice,prana bindu/the force
@@ibanez9179 could name all the differences but we would be here forever. Tones are completely different Dune is centred around Arakis Star Wars is not cantered around any one planet. Been Gesserit are not keepers of the peace like the Jedi, there is not sith counter to the bene gesserit they don’t wield similar weapons or Believe similar things. The idea of a chosen one or prophet was not invented by either of these authors. The message of Star Wars and Dune may interest slightly at times but they still deal with totally different questions and topics. Paul atreidies and anikin have slight similarities but are totally different in look, purpose, motivation, and act totally different. The underworld of scum and villainy is a huge part of Star Wars and is not in dune. The variety of alien life in Star Wars is far more diverse. Could go on forever
@@ibanez9179these are the most superficial similarities I’ve ever seen, like seriously, comparing the massive terrifying worms from dune to the little stagnant mouth in the ground that is the sarlacc pit?
He didn't decide not to sue, he realized he has no case. If the best he can show is stuff like a robot being tangentially named after his unrelated character then he doesn't have a case.
Dune is an obvious straight rip off of John Carter. Frank Herbert has a beyond ridiculous take and he needs to be sued by Burroughs. And Star Wars is way different from either.
Dune was a collection of extremely popular Sci-fi books from the 1960s (until the recent films). Star Wars has always been about the screen. It is the backbone of the entire Sci-Fi film industry since the late 1970s. The point is even if George Lucas used concepts from Dune, his Star Wars franchise still made a bigger impact and still does to this day.
Frank Herbert wrote so much in his books it's really difficult for anyone to write anything where you can't draw a few parallels. Dune is overly verbose and unfocused and really wouldn't get published today.
@@bryman9613 It was released in the LSD times, where scifi was mostly like this. The hippies were one of the readers. I think that today first two Dune novels would get good reviews, while the rest would get from mixed to negative reviews.
There is some thing to clarify to understand : most of the heavy accusation Herbert did was before seeing the film, because an actor called him and told him it was a ripoff. Once the film was out and fairly different from Dune, Herbert still saw a lot of inspiration but he never talked again about suing the film. He didn't liked the attitude of Lucas and was kind of childish about that tho.
@@kristinaant6239 Yes. Dune has six decent books. Anything after Frank is hot garbage. Meanwhile, SW has a plethora os highly successful comic books, films, video games, novels, etc. What does Dune have besides two films and six books?
George Lucas cherry-picked from many sources. He took ideas and images from the Dune novels, Akira Kurosawa films, Flash Gordon, The Dam Busters (copying many frame shots as well as dialogue), and the writings of Joseph Campbell. Obi-Wan Kenobi was modeled after Gandalf in Lord of the Rings. Tatooine would not exist as it is without the imagination of Frank Herbert. Lucas is a filmmaker and not a literary novelist like Herbert. Herbert had good reasons for thinking Lucas ripped off his creation. To say Lucas and Lucasfilm were “inspired” by Herbert is an understatement. Herbert once considered suing Lucas for plagiarism, but he refrained in the end because, unlike Lucas, Herbert was neither money-grubbing nor litigious. I have heard some say that Lucas paid Herbert off for plagiarism, but I haven’t seen the source of this rumor. Below are several examples of Star Wars (1977) copying Dune (1965): * Arrakis is a desert planet with 2 binary moons, giant worms that live under the sand, and inhabitants (Fremen) who collect moisture. Tatooine is a desert planet with 2 binary suns, giant worms (greater krayt dragons) that live under the sand, and inhabitants who work as moisture farmers. * The Jedi (warrior space monks) were modeled after the Bene Gesserit (warrior space nuns). The Jedi mind trick duplicates the hypnotic power of the Bene Gesserit’s Voice. The Bene Gesserit develop their physical and mental abilities through training known as prana-bindu. In the original script for Episode IV-A New Hope, the Jedi Knights were first called Jedi-Bendu. * The spice, AKA “melange,” is an expensive mind-altering drug on Arrakis. In the Star Wars franchise, there are several mentions of various types of spice, all of which are also expensive mind-altering drugs. As far as I can tell, none of them are used for cooking in Star Wars. * Greater krayt dragons, as seen in season 2 of The Mandalorian (2020), imitate the look and behavior of the sandworms. The Sarlacc in Return of the Jedi (1983) matches the description of a sandworm’s mouth with its rows of concentrically arranged teeth. It’s basically a sandworm in a stationary vertical position. Incidentally, the writers of The Mandalorian also gave a couple of shout outs to Herbert’s work with the character of Cara Dune and the city of Calodan (Caladan is Paul Atreides’ home planet). * In the first novel (1965), Paul discovers that Jessica, his mother, is the secret daughter of Baron Harkonnen. He is the grandson of a major villain. In The Empire Strikes Back (1980), Luke discovers he is the secret son of a major villain, Darth Vader. So, for both franchises, the main protagonist learns a critical discovery (anagnorisis): he is actually descended from his major enemy. It’s too much to be mere coincidence when added to all the other similarities. The copying continues past the first Dune novel (spoilers in the next 2 paragraphs): * Jabba the Hutt, first seen in 1983, imitates the appearance of Leto II, the human + worm hybrid and title character of God Emperor of Dune (1981). Worm bosses Jabba and Leto II have as their home base-surprise surprise-a desert planet. * In Revenge of the Sith (2005), Anakin has visions of Padmé dying after giving birth to their fraternal twins, a boy (Luke) and a girl (Leia). His visions come true. This same event happened 36 years earlier to Paul in Dune Messiah (1969). He has prescient visions of Chani dying after childbirth and it all comes true. The children born are also fraternal twins: a boy (Leto II) and a girl (Ghanima). The examples above are blatant. It can hardly be called inspiration since Lucas and Lucasfilm weren’t clever enough to tweak Herbert’s ideas into something significantly different for the Star Wars franchise. This is why many viewers who watched Dune for the first time said it reminded them of Star Wars. Of course it does, since in the above examples Lucas did not make any major alterations from Dune, the source. Herbert was inspired by Arabic and Islamic culture, but his Fremen have a truly distinct society that’s not a copy/paste of the Middle East. It’s likely he was inspired by Lawrence of Arabia with Paul similarly going native with the locals, but Paul’s story arc does not mirror Lawrence’s. There are similarities in the plot of Dune and A Princess of Mars, and later versions can be found in Dances With Wolves, Ferngully, The Last Samurai, and Avatar-a foreigner joins oppressed native people, adopts their culture, and leads them to fight for freedom. Dune is different from the others because the hero is not really a hero and the native oppressed people he leads become oppressors themselves. Arrakis is not a carbon copy of Barsoom (Mars). Barsoom is an ageing planet with dwindling resources. It’s not a desert planet. It’s also filled with various humanoid races and many kinds of animals. It supports more diversity of life than inhospitable Arrakis. Furthermore, the Dune and Foundation novels explore the development and progress of humanity in a galaxy-wide empire thousands of years in the future. Herbert’s approach did not mimic Isaac Asimov’s ideas. He took a different path while on the same subject of focus. Unlike Lucas, Herbert made a bigger effort to avoid being too derivative of earlier ideas, changing such ideas to suit his individual vision. Contemporary critics and reviewers of his books, knowledgeable about all the sci-fi and fantasy stories that preceded Dune, never accused Herbert of ripping off earlier works. They certainly would have if they had found undeniable examples. Instead, they noted the unique quality of his worldbuilding and the depth of his philosophical themes. Whether you like his books or not, he was never accused of churning out derivative pulp fiction.
I love how much he thought he owned the concept of a princess in sci-fi 💀. Lucas even openly said he was inspired by other works and took a lot from them… It’s kinda sad to see that inspiration is considered an insult when it’s the biggest compliment you can get
The original score of star wars was preexisting classical music and George Lucas told John Williams to write his original score by changing the original classical songs just enough so that they could claim them as original works. There are videos on YT that compare the original songs to John Williams copies. Pretty crazy
George always says he get inspirations in Dune, and thanks to him sci-fi get a especial attention he was the first to show us the very potential of a space opera in a big screen beyond series, books or comics, and thanks to him Dune have two great adaptations.
Yes and the Valeria Comic series had a princess a sandplanet with two suns and people being frozen in time in a box. And what did their creator say? He said that he was happy to see parts of his story in it and that scifi is just a long line of inspiring each other.
The similarities between Dune & Star Wars are the fact that there is a desert planet and a valuable substance nicknamed spice. A person who read Dune in 1965 could not have watched Star Wars in 1977 and guessed were the story was going based on having read Dune.
Harry Potter is basically a rewrite of Star wars. An orphan boy lives with his aunt and uncle gets a visit from a strange man with a beard who actually was the one who dropped him off as a baby.... There are a LOT of similarities. It's truly the same story!
He might have gotten a blue print of the house designed from Herbert, but Lucas did a better paint job, made a better basement, added an interesting attic, and adopted lots of cool pets and secret passageways. I like both, but I’ll always like the original 6 Star Wars movies more. (Not Disney Star Wars)
There’s a difference between a cheap copy and a new work of art that took inspiration from older works. Star Wars takes inspiration from many different works. Like the old Sifi shows of the 50s, Campbells hero’s journey, samurai movies, westerns, etc. to make a new work of art.
